[jkdas]

Indica V2's are good by Indian standards atleast. How do you rate an amby and an Indica?

And, BAleno sells in ok numbers coz...
1) Big promo deals from dealers (read 50k +)
2) Remember the price when it was launched?, they slashed teh price a lot and hence.

Himanshu was unlucky I guess. Just coz Saddam was cruel (me no say; tehy say) doesnt mean Iraqies are bad. I had flat mates who were gem of Iraqies.

And test drive a new Indica.

[himanshugoswami]

I spent the best part of yesterday afternoon and evening at my dealers workshop. Managed to smooth talk my way into teh working bay so could see my car up close. Good thing I did that! It so happens that while the works manager was spot on about the turbo malfunction, he was trying to push his luck with the cylinder corrossion bit. Turns out there was nothing wrong with the cylinders of the car. It was the works manager's lucky day that he was not around when i disovered this or he would have in all probability met his Maker yesterday, given the kind of mood i was in! that little S**t was trying to make some money on the warranty claim!

anyways, it turns out that as diagnosed, there was a leak in the plumbing on account of one of the screws falling out due to excessive vibrations (I am perplexed by this!). thus, the oil flow to the turbo was abruptly cut off , thereby causing excessive heat build up when the turbo was on full boost. THis caused the malfunction.

An interesting thing was that no one inthe work shop was aware that the turbo in teh Indica is a radial flow turbo. They kept giving inane explanations about the working of the turbo, after a poin I just shut my brain.

The total cost for the repair incl. labour is coming to 22,500, which is covered under the warranty. I am also getting my first service done and am getting all the joints and screws checked.

[Fiero]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Indica V2's are good by Indian standards atleast. How do you rate an amby and an Indica?

And, BAleno sells in ok numbers coz...
1) Big promo deals from dealers (read 50k +)
2) Remember the price when it was launched?, they slashed teh price a lot and hence.

And test drive a new Indica.

what do u mean by indian standards?? ... i agree tata has made some big strides forward since the first indica more than half a decade ago , but quality and reliability issues remain* , but none the less they are improving with each new model of the indica/indigo and hopefully they will continue to improve to reach the build quality of other foriegn makers and our very own maruti(swift as benchmark for build quality)


i disagree baleno sells ONLY because of discounts ... it is a brilliant car and at the current price it is gr8 VFM

[lsjey]

Hi guys,

I feel that tata quality is definitely bad. Even their sales process is quite bad. I went to a showroom for a test drive of the indica turbo. To my surprise I found the following defects in the demo car:

1. Tachometer as well as the speedometer did not work
2. horn did not work
3. The ash tray functioned normally when opened and closed. However, when I removed it out of its casing, neither myself nor the sales assistant could put it back in.
4. The clutch was heavy that to change gears I had to strain a lot.
5. There was rattle from the bonnet and from the doors.
6. i had to wait for about 15 mins and do all kinds of frustated things before a sales guy deemed it fit to talk to me.

Now I headed straight to a maruti dealer and test drove the Swift:

1. Yes the sales experience was great, i was attended to in a matter of seconds on entry.
2. yes i could sense a few rattles on the car.
3. I felt that Swift was great car. I started cursing tatas.

In summary, I generally trust the JD Power surveys. Tata's need to go a long way to improve their service quality and their product quality.

IMHO, only 10% of dissatisfied customers complain. If the indications in tbhp itself is anything to go by, definitely, not more than 50-60% of the Indica/Indigo owners are satisfied.

lsjey

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by Fiero

what do u mean by indian standards?? ... i agree tata has made some big strides forward since the first indica more than half a decade ago , but quality and reliability issues remain* , but none the less they are improving with each new model of the indica/indigo and hopefully they will continue to improve to reach the build quality of other foriegn makers and our very own maruti(swift as benchmark for build quality)

I agree... Safety is also a concern for Indica. Just because they are heavy doesn't mean they are safe. I was on an Esteem, behind my friend's Indica doing 90 kph on a newly laid road. We were approaching the crest of a small climb and the newly tarred section ended with a feet deep fall. Man, the Indica's jump was one of the scariest thing we ever witnessed. It went nose doen and landed heavily on the nose, lost control and skidded. Luckly nothing worse happend, except some tyre damage. We had a relatively better landing on all four. What we comprehend is that Indica's weight distribution could be the root cause.

I think if you are driving at sedate pace, any car might feel safe. When you near the limits, is when your car's pedigree shows. Car making is not so easy afterall.

[Wheeliej]

Hey Himanshu, Glad that you made it back alright.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by zappo

And about that cylinder wear... did you check and confirm what the guy at the TASC said was actually true? I know of so many horror stories around Authorised Service Centers in smaller cities... They may be having an old vehicle from one of their known people, or even worse just an old vehicle on which they did a costly replacement (and got paid). Now they want to make a double killing. They will show that replacement under warranty against your car and then get paid again for it.

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

I spent the best part of yesterday afternoon and evening at my dealers workshop. Managed to smooth talk my way into teh working bay so could see my car up close. Good thing I did that! It so happens that while the works manager was spot on about the turbo malfunction, he was trying to push his luck with the cylinder corrossion bit. Turns out there was nothing wrong with the cylinders of the car. It was the works manager's lucky day that he was not around when i disovered this or he would have in all probability met his Maker yesterday, given the kind of mood i was in! that little S**t was trying to make some money on the warranty claim!

Himanshu... I am going to ask only one thing on this... that too with a very somber voice. Did you read my earlier post on this thread buddy? You only added another reference to my database... And I grow a little more circumspect from now on.

[nitrous]

Things are going bad in here.

After Baleno vs VTEC, looks like Tata vs Maruti or Indica vs Esteem is happening.

If u can grow up and have some experience in cars, then talk.
Else stay a mute spectator.

[ivor]

Originally Posted by drifter

Esteem is faster only because its lighter...try having a crash in both the indigo and the esteem...you will fare better with the indigo/indica always!

As compared to an Esteem perhaps a crash in the Indigo may result in the occupants coming out better, but here's a review of the City Rover which was based on the Indica (and built much better!) and this is what they say about safety:

[FONT=verdana]Add that to the fact that a Euro NCAP crash test is unlikely for this car because it was not built originally by Tata to withstand one (although it does conform to EU safety standards)...........[/FONT][FONT=verdana]a car which is so outclassed in safety equipment by its competitors.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Source: http://www.fleetnewsnet.co.uk/news/v...D=33440&menu=1

I knows the Tata have a crash facility, but somehow, heavy does not seem the same as safe to me.

How I wish we had EuroNCAP kind ratings in India--for every car! Then we'd never have to speculate on safety aspects of a car! I read the government is in the process of setting up something, but who knows when it will get going....

[/FONT]

[drifter]

Ivor we are comparing the indica and esteem...given the fact from what i've seen on the roads...if i have to have a crash i'd much rather take my chances with the indica than the esteem.

Euro NCAP, the cars being sold there mostly come with curtain airbags in addition to the standard airbag...as far as i know tata only give driver and passenger airbags. Because the curtain airbags are absent that might account for the reason why the city rover fairs badly in comparision to others. Still manages to pass the tests.

What about the esteem? You know we could go on for ages arguing which is better. So lets just let it go.

The esteems were great cars when they were introduced. But as of now they are outclassed by the competition in every respect.

I spent the best part of yesterday afternoon and evening at my dealers workshop. Managed to smooth talk my way into teh working bay so could see my car up close. Good thing I did that! It so happens that while the works manager was spot on about the turbo malfunction, he was trying to push his luck with the cylinder corrossion bit. Turns out there was nothing wrong with the cylinders of the car. It was the works manager's lucky day that he was not around when i disovered this or he would have in all probability met his Maker yesterday, given the kind of mood i was in! that little S**t was trying to make some money on the warranty claim!

What did i say about some tata dealers....these people are giving the company a bad name.

Drifter..as himanshugoswami said..tata cars are crude nd unrefined..nd i agree with u dude..on the space nd crash part...nd look at the esteem in the same front..its so refined...fast as well as fuel effecient..

Esteem is essentially a petrol car and we were talking about diesels. The esteem D is nowhere close to as refined as the indigo/indica D. Fuel efficiency...nothing matches the tata here as well.

And about the thing as tata spares are cheap..dude..look at the price of maruti spares..they are the cheapest(among all cars)..nd the most available spares in entire india...

I dont really know the exact costs, but if i remember correctly a mirror housing for the baleno are about 3.5k. Maruti spares on the whole are quite cheap agreed.
Im yet to come across an expensive tata spare. And availability has never been an issue.

Nd about esteem not sellin in good numbers...Look at the baleno...its a dream car kinds..in performance nd everythin..but then too its sales figures are so bad...

The baleno is a good car. I agree. But the esteem is swamped im afraid.

Not every car that is good has to sell..nd the tatas are comparitively new to the estemm..The esteem had its time..when it was sellin like hot cakes..with not any problems ever since it arrived...nd comparitively...indica/indigo are new

Agreed the esteem didnt have niggling issues like in the indicas/indigos which is very bad. Tata cannot experiment like that. They should take out all the bugs before launching a new car.

Drifter

[hellspawn]

even i would not rate tatas cars as good cars or cars worth buying...my bro has an indica which has had so many problems that he is just fed up with it.to start with,he switched on his car one day and a few minutes later the whole bonnet caught fire.the entire enine head had to be replaced.another day,it started raining and unfortunately his car was parked in a hole in the road(a small one).the water in the puddle kept rising and soon the water entered the car short circuiting everythiing(my bros 2 sony 222 amps also shot circuited)..many more problems ket comin and he has vowed that he will never recommend a tata to anybody.
but y i dont hate tata that much is because we are comparing tata to companies like skoda,maruti,honda etc whih have been in the business for decades whereas tata is just 5-6 yrs old in the car business.so tata haters plz give them them some time,

[elf]

drifter: "Agreed the esteem didnt have niggling issues like in the indicas/indigos which is very bad. Tata cannot experiment like that. They should take out all the bugs before launching a new car. "

@ drifter you're so right man! The standing joke when the Indica was launched was that they could price it so cheap because of outsourcing... Tata outsourced their Research & Development department to the great Indian public!

Also, one more thing that struck me as really hillarious was when they launched the Indica V2. The damn advert copy said something to the tune of "... now with EPDM rubber profiles for the doors". Tata's really shameless!

I'd love to see Mercedes use the same concept - "Check out the new CLS 500 AMG V2 - now with ABS plastic on the side mirrors!"

Damn morons!

[prince85]

Well, i have owned Esteems, 4 of them to be exact. I am using one which is a 2006vxi for myself while the remaining cars are hired to airlines and hotels etc. I own a Baleno-06 too. We have 2 Indica Diesels and 1 Indigo Petrol which operate in call-centres.

Well, IMHO, lets put it this way.

Tata Indigo-
CONS- It has a crude petrol plant, fit and finish is a major issue, water used to seep in 2 of the 3 Tata cars that we have during last years rains. Handling is pathetic, does not inspire confidence at all which is dangerous.
PROS-Its has a great FE, great for the tourist sector, has lots of space compared to the Esteem, robust feel about it.

Esteem
CONS-Its cramped especially at the back, safety is a major issue, long into the tooth design.

PROS-Fantastic Engine and Gearbox, Great FE, much better fit and finish compared to the Indica/go, smoother ride.

Verdict - Look, both the Indigo and the esteem are the only cars 3 box cars which can be had at around 4.5L on road. And at that price there is no competition atleastin the entry level mid-size segment. Both cars are good but then they have their pros and cons.

Coming to the spares cost, i guess both TATA and MARUTI spares for the Indigo and the Esteem are very cheap compared to say the BAleno. I love to drive and so i prefer the Esteem anyday but then both cars aren't the best around. i realised that and went for a Baleno , now i have the best of both worlds, i.e good seating space, fantastic engine and overall a much better car.

Finally, i would like to add that both the Indica and Indigo are good cars, just wish TATA could have sorted the problems regarding fit and finish and overall quality of their cars.

To end it up i would say that my 2002 Esteem has been less troublesome than the Indigo 2003 till date. Indicas were Diesels soo i can't really compare them to the Esteem D coz i don't have one. I guess its unfair to compare the Indigo Diesel with the Esteem D coz the Esteem D has been out of production for almost a year now.

PS- This is strictly my "OWN PERSONAL OPINION". I own both cars soo i thought i could offer my 2 cents to this thread, whatever worth it maybe.BTW guys i feel we are going way off topic here.

Cheers

[ivor]

Originally Posted by drifter

What did i say about some tata dealers....these people are giving the company a bad name.
Drifter

Perhaps this is , but I think unscrupulous dealers/service centres are not restricted to any brand. I've had similar experiences with my Zen, where 2 Authorised Service Centres gave me 2 very different takes when my brakes suddenly went weak. One guy (the bigger, more professional seeming place) told me a whole lot of stuff had to be changed, but a smaller centre said only one small component had to be changed and actually, he was right.

[bruce]

....in one of our offices a New Indica, got into flames and heard that the front part of the car, the headlamps, all plastics were melting before the fire was extinguished, i suspected a short circuit.
BTW it was a turbo!

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