[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

So much for the quality!!

Doc, sorry to hear about it. It is indeed unfortunate to see these types of quality issues with a car that costs a arm and a leg in India. BTW, have you had the Beemer with you all along? May be possible that while you don't honk too much, someone else who has kept the car for a couple of weeks/months have done so. Just a possibility. But still that doesn't warrant a wear-n-tear marks as these.

Also, to our dismay, I personally don't think BMW will cover this in their warranty. I would be very surprised if they do.

Regarding the leather seat discussion above, I personally think it varies from brand to brand. Some use good quality leather while others don't. IIRC, GTO mentioned in Fortuner's original test-drive thread that Toyota's leather seem really durable and abuse friendly. However, Fortuner IMO has one of the poorest quality seat leather among OEMs. I have seen cars which have just 50k kms on the odo while leather seats are completely bust (some have had maintenance issues, but not all). On the other hand, my 2007 Honda Civic's leather was almost as good as new (no cracks, no cuts) after 3M's treatment just before I sold the car this past April and it had 142k+ kms on the odo there. Relatively speaking for Beemers, I have felt the leather in E60s used to be of better quality Vs F10.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Ace F355

Doc, sorry to hear about it. It is indeed unfortunate to see these types of quality issues with a car that costs a arm and a leg in India. BTW, have you had the Beemer with you all along? May be possible that while you don't honk too much, someone else who has kept the car for a couple of weeks/months have done so. Just a possibility. But still that doesn't warrant a wear-n-tear marks as these.

Also, to our dismay, I personally don't think BMW will cover this in their warranty. I would be very surprised if they do.

The car has exclusively been driven by me. And I keep my cars very clean. This is definitely a quality issue, whether BMW accepts it or not. If they don't then I would really feel cheated and that too when I have a comprehensive BSI package too! Who knows tomorrow they won't honor the warranty claims, if any, too!

[PGopkrsna]

Distinguished Members,

I am in need of some suggestions and advice on decision making to choose my new car. I owned (sold very recently) Verna CRDI and an Honda Amaze SMT (P). Reasons being 1) Verna is 7 yrs old now and 2) Amaze doesnt suit my posture and wife doesn't drive it anymore (I am 6.1 and well built). I was looking for a compact SUV and so was planning on buying a Hyundai Tuscon the one that is being planned through a CBE route from Korea. However, my experience from Verna was neutral, despite being a well maintained/serviced car I see the quality ruining as it ages and not to mention of the diesel rumble (and the jerk while starting).

I was talking to my friend on this and he rightaway made a statement " Hyundais are not worth 25+ lacs (that's the expected price of tuscon)" and he was actually wanting me to stretch more and try for a german car. So my journey started, I stopped by Audi to test drive Q3, and was offered a whopping on road price of 51 Lacs. Then tried Octavia DSG, and then the Pajero Sport, then came back home letting the experiences to settle in. Also I wanted to wait on the new fortuner 2016 to come in. However, in the meanwhile I stumbled upon an article in Autocar about the Beemer 3 Series petrol CBU, and wanted to check on it. I called up the BMW Kun Exclusive and to my surprise they sent a vehicle in about 2 hrs to my place for a test drive, and I must tell you I was totally blown off with the driving experience, I was doing illegal speeds on ORR without even realizing I was driving so fast until the SA told me so.

So now, with incessant rains at Hyderabad, low seating position and long bonnet ( both of which am not used to earlier) and low ground clearance are definitely a cause of concern. And today while I parked my car (Friend's Fabia) at the office parking I picked up a conversation with a driver of BMW 525D parked next to mine, just to know his experience with low seating posture and ground clearance, he said me that there would be no issue as long as drive really very slow over the bump and pot holes, but he also told me that owner of the car who also owns Mercedes C220 has his car now in the workshop since it stalled in an water logged area and looks like water entered into the engine costing him 4+ lacs now adding to my already astounding self critical thoughts on opting for 3 series. As I am working out the final quote with BMW dealer, I really need your thoughts and help.

Current BMW 320d owners please chime in and let me know your thoughts and advise on this. Thought my heart wants a beemer, practicality and operability (low seat, low ground clearance) is kind of pushing me away from choosing it.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

PGopkrsna
__________________________________
Verna SX CRDI 2010, Honda Amaze SMT P 2013, RE C500 2011, Aprilia SR 150

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Current BMW 320d owners please chime in and let me know your thoughts and advise on this. Thought my heart wants a beemer, practicality and operability (low seat, low ground clearance) is kind of pushing me away from choosing it.

Though I don't own a 3 series, the air intake sits pretty low and water level should always be lower than lip of bumper. Else there can be chances of water ingress in air intake manifold.

Going by your requirements, why don't you try out the X1. I recently did a test drive of it.

• The space it offers is very good compared to 320i in rear.
• Separate space for runflat in boot
• Boot space is also more with runflat not occupying it
• Ground Clearance is 165 mm on paper but is 183 mm theoretically
• Air intake sits high up, so no issue during wading through water
• Costs lesser then 320i

Do test drive the X1!

[PGopkrsna]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Though I don't own a 3 series, the air intake sits pretty low and water level should always be lower than lip of bumper. Else there can be chances of water ingress in air intake manifold.

Going by your requirements, why don't you try out the X1. I recently did a test drive of it.

• The space it offers is very good compared to 320i in rear.
• Separate space for runflat in boot
• Boot space is also more with runflat not occupying it
• Ground Clearance is 165 mm on paper but is 183 mm theoretically
• Air intake sits high up, so no issue during wading through water
• Costs lesser then 320i

Do test drive the X1!

Thank You, El bobo 6061 -- I will test drive the X1, however as I said my biggest reason for considering a beemer is the sheer driving pleasure of the RWD and this thought is only getting strengthened by the comments/experience on both 320d and X1 on TBHP.

Present BMW 320d owners, please help with your inputs too. Thank you in advance.

[Turbanator]

(I am 6.1 and well built)

I don't think 3 will be a suitable fit for you but I maybe wrong, best will be to sit for a while perhaps take rented one or ask for longish test drive with family. Unless you specifically are looking at a premium brand, look at SUV - Endeavour can be a good alternate. I am not entirely convinced with new X1 especially if you are looking at "driving pleasure". Having owned 3 in past, water or low clearance should not be much of a problem though & you can get these covered under Insurance. There are some fantastic deals on CBU Petrol, do compare with Diesel before deciding.

[PGopkrsna]

Thank you, Turbanator. I did test drive 320D for close to 60 Kms and did like it. Coming to Endeavour, it doesn't appeal to me, particularly the rear profile. I believe I will wait for the Fortuner 2016. I will for sure take one more test drive of 320d.

[rahul_jo]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Current BMW 320d owners please chime in and let me know your thoughts and advise on this. Thought my heart wants a beemer, practicality and operability (low seat, low ground clearance) is kind of pushing me away from choosing it.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

PGopkrsna

Having owned a 320d for quite a few months now, I can definitely say that this has probably been the best decision for me. Never once has the under body scraped a speedbraker and even though its a pretty low car, it does pretty alright on our city roads.

I was forced to drive it through water clogged areas a few times (reached a point of no return) and even through some pretty heavy rains, yet, it performed well without any issues. However, if it's a matter of practicality, then obviously it can never match an SUV.

But, one shouldn't buy a BMW for practicality. You buy it for something else. Something more. What do I mean?

Well, on the day this car was delivered to me, I took it out for a spin and I passed by an area where a small group of kids were playing cricket. As I passed by they all turned, pointed at the car and said - "Oh look! A BMW" and sort of cheered me on.

Then I was at a red light where a guy on a motor bike kept staring at the corona rings. Then as the light turned green he first let me pass and then sped up suddenly wanting to race. Seeing my lack of enthusiasm in taking up his challenge he slowed down slightly, gave me a thumbs up (indicating that he likes the car) and rode away.

And it didn't stop there. Later that day I went to a mall and much to my surprise the treatment was much different this time around. The security guy in the parking lot stopped me, told me that since it's a bigger car, he'll offer a better parking space, walked along side my car and escorted me to a very comfortable parking location.

You also enjoy a much greater road presence and get a lot more respect from other drivers. You won't even have to honk and most vehicles will automatically make way for you just because you're driving a BMW. And I have hundreds of more such examples in the last few months that I've spent with this car.

That is only one aspect of it. The next is the driving pleasure. Honestly speaking, I absolutely used to hate driving a car through city traffic. In fact, I have a driver for that very reason. But since owning a 320d, even stop & go traffic appears stress free to me. It's almost like the very idea of getting into this car leaves a perpetual smile on my face. Now, I look for reasons to drive it more and more.

Heck, once you get used to the throttle response, the low almost race car like driving position and the utmost control you feel behind the wheel, other cars will feel like you're driving a box on wheels.

Now coming to the main point - Is it worth it? Well, the new Fortuner should launch around 35-40ish lacs (I am just guessing based on current pricing). Now the big question is - Is spending close to 40 lacs worth it on a Toyota? If you're in it for the practicality, then that's a reasonable choice.

But personally, I don't think a Toyota is worth spending 40 lacs on because it will never match the badge value a German car brings. Moreover, the emotional joy you feel with this car is truly priceless and makes it seem worth every penny.

[PGopkrsna]

Thank you, Rahul - very much my thoughts are the same as well. Practicality is the crux that is making me move away. Recent rains have played a havoc on city roads and am afraid driving BMW through these roads would mean I need to stay alert and be damn slow. Does the low seating cause any back pain ?

[rahul_jo]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Practicality is the crux that is making me move away. Recent rains have played a havoc on city roads and am afraid driving BMW through these roads would mean I need to stay alert and be damn slow. Does the low seating cause any back pain ?

In terms of practicality think of it this way. Nowadays, we see massive buses and even pretty high trucks stuck in water logged areas. Sometimes it gets so bad that even an SUV might not cut it.

Unfortunately, this is the reality we have to live with now in our country, however, the good news is this only happens for a span of 2-3 months a year. The rest of the year, you're completely good to go.

And to answer the other question - I am 5 feet 11 inches tall and I've very rarely experienced back pain due to the seating position. You do get that slight feeling of lethargy if you've been driving constantly for 3-4 hours, but then you'll get that in any other car as well.

All in all, it's a pretty roomy car and pretty comfortable too.

Hope this helps.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Thank you, Rahul - very much my thoughts are the same as well. Practicality is the crux that is making me move away. Recent rains have played a havoc on city roads and am afraid driving BMW through these roads would mean I need to stay alert and be damn slow. Does the low seating cause any back pain ?

Perhaps you could consider the new X1? It may be less sporty than a 3 series but it'll still blow away any other suv away on driving pleasure. Plus it'll give you that slight bit of ground clearance and comfort you're concerned about. And you don't have to move around heavy duty real estate like a fortuner in crowded traffic ridden cities.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Thank you, Rahul - very much my thoughts are the same as well. Practicality is the crux that is making me move away. Recent rains have played a havoc on city roads and am afraid driving BMW through these roads would mean I need to stay alert and be damn slow. Does the low seating cause any back pain ?

Coming from 7yrs of Verna ownership, there will be a dramatic increase in ownership costs and reliability issues with these luxury cars. If you have done your homework on the finances and you fancy a good drive, then 3-series should be a top contender.

Low GC: It is nothing more than a minor inconvenience similar to Honda City/Civic. Speed humps are totally harmless. Potholes are bad for wheels/suspension and high GC doesn't help much.

Water ingression, underbody damage due to protrusions on the road, etc.: All sedans are equally at risk, having an inch of extra GC hardly matters. Get adequate insurance coverage.

Space, seating comfort, etc.: Test drive alone can convince you.

Practicality: I am not sure of your criteria but 3-series is a great city+highway car. Fortuner can hardly be called a practical car barring it's low cost of ownership.

Bottom line is if you can afford it and you love driving, this should be it.

[PGopkrsna]

Thank you, Androdev. You bring up a very valid point. The cost of ownership as this is not going to be one time. Can you advise as to what would be the cost of maintenance? Let us say 5 yrs. Apart from the fact that it takes 45+ lacs on road, cost of maintenance of these cars are crucial factor as well.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Thank you, Androdev. You bring up a very valid point. The cost of ownership as this is not going to be one time. Can you advise as to what would be the cost of maintenance? Let us say 5 yrs. Apart from the fact that it takes 45+ lacs on road, cost of maintenance of these cars are crucial factor as well.

This is just approximate stuff (slightly on the higher side) for 5 years 60K km:

1. Insurance: 5 lakhs (don't cut costs on insurance: include zero depreciation with engine+gearbox coverage)
2. Service (oil, filters): 1.5-2 Lakhs
3. Service (brakes depending on the usage): 1.5-2 Lakhs
4. Tires (twice assuming 30K per change): 1 Lakh

That is about 10 Lakhs (fairly reasonable estimate of 2 Lakhs per year) of planned expenses. Don't waste money on paint protection, sun film, kits and other usual "first month" splurge.

Any unplanned repair that is outside of insurance and warranty can set you back big time. This is the main cause of frustration for many people. Take a look at the warranty packages on offer from BMW.

[rahul_jo]

Originally Posted by PGopkrsna

Thank you, Androdev. You bring up a very valid point. The cost of ownership as this is not going to be one time. Can you advise as to what would be the cost of maintenance? Let us say 5 yrs. Apart from the fact that it takes 45+ lacs on road, cost of maintenance of these cars are crucial factor as well.

Another amazing factor which pulls this car way ahead of the competition are the incredible discounts on offer. I read somewhere that the base petrol 3 was in the range of 32-34 lacs on road.

When I bought mine (which is a diesel), the discounts were in the range of approx 6-7 lacs too. I don't think you'll have to pay 45+ unless you're willing to go for the top end and even with that, I believe you'll get a pretty hefty discount if you push hard.