[ILTDrive]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Ascertain that the above are in good health and then ask your ASC to look into the steering.

Even my car does not pull to either side and there is no noise when it hits the speed breakers a little hard either. The noise only comes when i go over dug up and filled with stones kind of roads slowly and when the steering is turned slightly to the left. I do plan to take it to the service center next week and will share all the findings from your thread as well. Will see what they have to say.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

The rack was replaced and wheel alignment was done. However,I still visited Madhus this morning and got the alignment done again for my satisfaction.

I thought it was only me who does the WA/WB at Authorized Service Station(to avoid warranty issues) and then drive down to Madhus to get it done again for personal satisfaction.

[ILTDrive]

Took it to the service center and initially they said link rods are the culprit and they replaced them. The sound existed even after the change, so they said they had to check the rack. Took two hours and they told me they greased the rack and fitted it back and nothing was changed. There was no charge on the bill they gave me ,and though the sound is now vanished, I find the steering a little tight and also the steering wheel is misaligned to the left. The SA confirmed nothing has been changed, and has asked me to take it back to the MASS to recheck again. He said an alignment was also done. How do I check what was actually done?

If the RACK is replaced under warranty, do they require the customer signature on that warranty claim or no?

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by ILTDrive

Took two hours and they told me they greased the rack and fitted it back and nothing was changed.

To grease the rack, one of the rack boot has to be opened and then greased. For this, removing the rack is the only option as the rack sits behind the suspension frame.

I find the steering a little tight

The steering would be tight may be because they had adjusted the damper. In fact, you can take the car on any normal road and make U-Turn and the "Self-Centering" must happen such that the steering gets back to straight position after you complete that turn and move ahead. If the damper is tightened more than usual (to eliminate noise like in my case), its is likely that this "Self centering" wont happen.

also the steering wheel is misaligned to the left.

This is expected after the rack greasing. What they do its fix the rack on a vice, open the boot and put in a lot of grease. Then to ensure that the grease spreads out all over the rack, they pull the ends of the rack (Ball joint ends) inside out till the grease settles inside.

Hence, when they fit the steering back, your steering wheel would lose the original position and may appear turned to one particular direction.

He said an alignment was also done. How do I check what was actually done?

To fix the issue with tilted steering after the rack greasing, only alignment would solve the problem. After inspecting the alignment values, the ASC would remove the steering wheel and fit it back accordingly to make it appear in center position. However, with a car that has Airbags, the ASCs generally don't bother with the steering wheel removal part. So ask your ASC to fix this no matter what.

They had done this for my friend's SX4 Petrol after replacing the steering Rack bush and had developed same issue with steering tilted to one direction and later fixed it too (This was a Zxi, Airbags).

If the RACK is replaced under warranty, do they require the customer signature on that warranty claim or no?

Usually they first do the diagnosis and make an entry about the complaint and the resolution offered.

Later when the issue doesn't get sorted, you will be signing on document that mentions that you are satisfied with the work performed to fix the issue that you had in your car.

Apart from this, there will be that typical Bill from Maruti ASC with all the particulars (Rack, Labor, etc) and charges as 0.00 (which means you don't pay anything).

[agd19682]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering whether someone could help me out with a small issue that I am facing. I own a diesel Ertiga and completed my second servicing in April 2015. While giving the car for servicing, one of the complaints that I raised was that the vehicle struggled to pick up momentum in the 2nd gear and I had to wait for nearly 5-6 seconds for the engine to respond after pressing the accelerator. I did read Parag’s comment earlier about how to overcome the lag and tried that as well but the vehicle struggled to pick up speed. I was either forced to let the engine take its time to pick up speed with a lot of knocks or downshift to the first gear. Since the knocking didn’t seem a good practice, I preferred to downshift.

While giving back the vehicle, the people at the service center claimed to have tuned the engine and the problem was rectified. I also did a test drive and found it to be a lot more responsive. However, after a few days, I observed on numerous occasions that even while I am running in the 3rd gear, the car will move comfortably even without using the accelerator. It will also climb inclines easily without any efforts. Now I know that diesel engines have much more power compared to the petrol engines and that a diesel engine will easily generate enough power to move the car in 1st gear easily without using the accelerator, but running on 3rd gear without accelerator, doesn’t seem correct. I have also observed that the RPM meter on the car is always beyond the 1K mark even if the vehicle is on neutral; Is this normal?

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by agd19682

Now I know that diesel engines have much more power compared to the petrol engines and that a diesel engine will easily generate enough power to move the car in 1st gear easily without using the accelerator, but running on 3rd gear without accelerator, doesn’t seem correct. I have also observed that the RPM meter on the car is always beyond the 1K mark even if the vehicle is on neutral; Is this normal?

Diesel engines generate more torque than a petrol engine. The torque is what helps movement without the accelerator pedal input. Effortless driving.

The RPM should be around 800 to 850 during idling. IF you have the A/C running at idle then the needle is at 850 - 950.

[agd19682]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Diesel engines generate more torque than a petrol engine. The torque is what helps movement without the accelerator pedal input. Effortless driving.

The RPM should be around 800 to 850 during idling. IF you have the A/C running at idle then the needle is at 850 - 950.

I agree with you that diesel engines have more torque compared to a petrol, but my question is whether it is so much more that it carries over till the 3rd gear? And secondly whether the RPM hovering around the 1K+ mark is normal? I asked the same question to the SA at the service center as well and he said that this is normal; however, i wasn't fully convinced.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by agd19682

I agree with you that diesel engines have more torque compared to a petrol, but my question is whether it is so much more that it carries over till the 3rd gear? And secondly whether the RPM hovering around the 1K+ mark is normal? I asked the same question to the SA at the service center as well and he said that this is normal; however, i wasn't fully convinced.

Amaze and Fiesta Classic can even move on the 4th gear without you giving weight on the accelerator pedal. Your observation looks normal to me and as mentioned by anurag, the idle RPM is around 800-850. Can you post a pic of your idle RPM?

[arjithin]

Originally Posted by agd19682

I agree with you that diesel engines have more torque compared to a petrol, but my question is whether it is so much more that it carries over till the 3rd gear? And secondly whether the RPM hovering around the 1K+ mark is normal? I asked the same question to the SA at the service center as well and he said that this is normal; however, i wasn't fully convinced.

Agree on this. Idle is 800-850 without ac and slightly higher with AC. You haven't mentioned 1k+ rpm is with or without AC.

I suggest you question SA why the rpm is higher in a new vehicle.

Also take a test drive of the demo ertiga they have and see if your driving characteristics are same or not.

[Prithwitheraj]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Amaze and Fiesta Classic can even move on the 4th gear without you giving weight on the accelerator pedal. Your observation looks normal to me and as mentioned by anurag, the idle RPM is around 800-850. Can you post a pic of your idle RPM?

My zest petrol even moves without throttle at 5th gear with rpm below 1k at speeds around 30 km/h

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by agd19682

I agree with you that diesel engines have more torque compared to a petrol, but my question is whether it is so much more that it carries over till the 3rd gear? And secondly whether the RPM hovering around the 1K+ mark is normal? I asked the same question to the SA at the service center as well and he said that this is normal; however, i wasn't fully convinced.

Like many have mentioned, the characteristic is absolutely normal. What you need to do like Arun mentions is to post a video here when the car is in Idle (with and without AC) so that we can understand the problem statement in the first place.

Originally Posted by Prithwitheraj

My zest petrol even moves without throttle at 5th gear with rpm below 1k at speeds around 30 km/h

I guess we are now getting into competition mode and I would like to add that even my WagonR crawls in 5th without any throttle input as its that good old 4 Cylinder F10D motor with 224,000 kms on the ODO . The Ertiga Diesel may not, the K-Series may still but with some struggle.

This is absolutely normal for any car. Nothing to feel great or worry about.

In fact, in few cars the RPMs increases by 50-100 as soon as you turn the AC On to compensate for the load (And the drop in RPMs). This is a very good test to check the condition of your clutch as well!

[Prithwitheraj]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

I guess we are now getting into competition mode ...

Not at all - just sharing observations Why did you think we're getting into competition mode ! Just because it's a Tata vehicle ?!

[Chetan_Rao]

Idle RPM at 'working temperature' (i.e. warmed up engine) is usually in the 800-900 RPM ballpark. Engines usually idle a couple hundred RPMs over that at cold start, but settle down once you've driven a bit.

If a warmed up engine is idling at 1k+ RPM, the throttle (idle) position needs tweaking. Easily done on older cars with cable-operated throttles, newer cars with drive-by-wire throttles need slightly more expertise to do DIY, easily done by a competent mechanic though.

As for cars 'moving without throttle input in high gear', one can theoretically set the throttle position to anything right up to WOT (wide open throttle), so not something to brag about really. It's a cheap trick used by mechanics over the ages to make a quick buck off customers complaining of 'low pick up'. Crank up the throttle a bit and the response usually improves. Et Voila!

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Idle RPM at 'working temperature' (i.e. warmed up engine) is usually in the 800-900 RPM ballpark. Engines usually run a couple hundred RPMs over that at cold start, but settle down once you've driven a bit.

Agreed. Something very common with Petrols but less with Diesels. My WagonR in the morning shoots up to 2100 RPM during cold starts and then settles to around 800-900.

If a warmed up engine is idling at 1k+ RPM, the throttle (idle) position sensor needs tweaking. Easily done on older cars with cable-operated throttles, drive-by-wire cars need sightly more expertise to do DIY, easily done by a competent mechanic though.

This Tweaking is generally not a good idea. Again, when you turn off your car and restart, the Sensors will assume the current Throttle position as "0". I have done this many times when working on the Throttle body of my WagonR.

Anyway, since Ertiga is drive by wire, we would require a different approach to solve this. Even before that, we need to really understand if this is an issue or something normal.

[agd19682]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for your comments on this issue. I got the RPM issue fixed at the service station yesterday. Now, the RPM counter needle rests one step less than the 1K mark.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Diesel engines generate more torque than a petrol engine. The torque is what helps movement without the accelerator pedal input. Effortless driving.

The RPM should be around 800 to 850 during idling. IF you have the A/C running at idle then the needle is at 850 - 950.

Thanks for your suggestions a4anurag. The problem here is that I have never had a comparison benchmark before.

Originally Posted by arjithin

Agree on this. Idle is 800-850 without ac and slightly higher with AC. You haven't mentioned 1k+ rpm is with or without AC.

I suggest you question SA why the rpm is higher in a new vehicle.

Also take a test drive of the demo ertiga they have and see if your driving characteristics are same or not.

arjithin - The RPM count is with the AC on. As per your suggestion, I also drove my manager's ertiga but on his car, the RPM needle stayed one count short of the 1K mark; ditto with the test drive vehicle.

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Amaze and Fiesta Classic can even move on the 4th gear without you giving weight on the accelerator pedal. Your observation looks normal to me and as mentioned by anurag, the idle RPM is around 800-850. Can you post a pic of your idle RPM?

@arun_josie - I got this issue fixed yesterday by vising the service center yesterday, but couldn't take a picture first.

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Like many have mentioned, the characteristic is absolutely normal. What you need to do like Arun mentions is to post a video here when the car is in Idle (with and without AC) so that we can understand the problem statement in the first place.

This is absolutely normal for any car. Nothing to feel great or worry about.

In fact, in few cars the RPMs increases by 50-100 as soon as you turn the AC On to compensate for the load (And the drop in RPMs). This is a very good test to check the condition of your clutch as well!

Paragsachania - My worries arose from the fact that this problem with the RPM needle started occurring only after the vehicle came back from its second service. Earlier, I had to press the accelerator substantially to get the vehicle to respond and still it took 5-6 seconds for the car to respond but now, i don't have to use the accelerator at all, just manipulate the clutch and the brakes. The car feels as if will shoot forward like a bullet and its only my foot on the brakes that is preventing it.

Secondly, I hadn't driven a diesel vehicle before, so for a long while I kept thinking that it had something to do with my driving style and that maybe I wasn't able to maintain the proper RPM levels. It was only after me and a few colleagues went out for an outing in my manager's ertiga that I understood that it wasn't the case. I was able to drive his car quite effortlessly and the vehicle's response was great. That's when I decided to report that the engine's response was not up to the mark and asked the SA to look into it.

However one side effect of this fiasco is that the FE has dropped down from 17-19 to about 10-14 but now that I have got it fixed, I will have to check the FE figures again.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Idle RPM at 'working temperature' (i.e. warmed up engine) is usually in the 800-900 RPM ballpark. Engines usually idle a couple hundred RPMs over that at cold start, but settle down once you've driven a bit.

If a warmed up engine is idling at 1k+ RPM, the throttle (idle) position needs tweaking. Easily done on older cars with cable-operated throttles, newer cars with drive-by-wire throttles need slightly more expertise to do DIY, easily done by a competent mechanic though.

Chetan_Rao - Sorry, I never observed the RPM on a cold engine. All the RPM meter readings are from the time I am waiting at the silk board junction.

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Agreed. Something very common with Petrols but less with Diesels. My WagonR in the morning shoots up to 2100 RPM during cold starts and then settles to around 800-900.
Anyway, since Ertiga is drive by wire, we would require a different approach to solve this. Even before that, we need to really understand if this is an issue or something normal.

As mentioned above, I never observed the RPM meter on a cold engine. Everyday when I am going to the office, I simply unlock the car, turn on the ignition and finish other chores around the car like checking the tyre pressure all around, dropping down the raised windshield wipers, adjusting the ORVMs etc. I intentionally try to spend about 2-3 minutes on all those tasks so that the engine sort of warms up. This is something that I picked up from one of my friends who told me that its always good to get the engine worked up a bit before starting off on a drive.