[audioholic]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Lesson Learnt : A clogged Diesel filter can cause a lot issues like one that happened with me and it better get replaced at the mentioned intervals. For the way adulteration in Diesel happens, even 20,000 kms seems like longer change interval. It wasn't due to negligence but sheer confusion due to which It somehow went out of my head.

Super! The clogged filter will retard sudden fuel flow surges which is required when you accelerate after a gear change. At least you did not have to get the clutch removed again.

Given that our road conditions and dust seem to get worse, I am thinking of changing air filters on my cars much earlier than the manufacturer schedule.

[nkrishnap]

Fuel filter replacement is at 15000 kms for the Punto/Linea. I ran it up to 20000 kms once and never wanted to run the filter for that long post that experience. The engine just felt lazy with a clogged filter. Sticking to 15K interval for diesel filter and 5K interval for the air filter. Even for the engine oil I am sticking to 8K interval if the majority of the driving is in city and 10K interval if its on the highway.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by procrj

There are some days when the car feels a little lazy and it takes time for the revs to build.

Exactly the symptoms

Usually observed this during city drives and not the highway sprints.

And this confuses you because it behaves normal on the highways like it did for me. No issues cruising at any speeds or hitting some really higher numbers.

I am pretty sure that the condition of the filter is not going to be very pretty, and I wonder why M&M recommends 30K kms instead of 20K given the quality of fuel in India.

I was to reply you that FIAT recommends change at every 15,000 kms but Krishna has rightly mentioned below. 20,000 for our conditions (rather the condition of Diesel we get) is way too long in my opinion.

Originally Posted by audioholic

At least you did not have to get the clutch removed again.

Absolutely not . It took a while to figure out but it eventually it wasn't difficult to zero down on the culprit when the ASC said the last replacement was at 82,000 Kms. The moment he said that, I was excited - "Change the darn filter, I know thats the reason"

I am thinking of changing air filters on my cars much earlier than the manufacturer schedule.

For the Ertiga, I have been changing the Air Filter every 10,000 kms even when the manufacturer recommendation is 20K.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Fuel filter replacement is at 15000 kms for the Punto/Linea.

This is what I was discussion with Arun as well when I shared the fact that the issue is resolved and it was only the filter.

I ran it up to 20000 kms once and never wanted to run the filter for that long post that experience. The engine just felt lazy with a clogged filter.

And I ran more than 33,000 kms for an interval of 20,000 kms. And this feeling of laziness only crops up gradually rather than an overnight change that it is difficult to ascertain in the first place if there is an issue at all.

Sticking to 15K interval for diesel filter and 5K interval for the air filter. Even for the engine oil I am sticking to 8K interval if the majority of the driving is in city and 10K interval if its on the highway.

I may change the Fuel Filter every 15K now and will continue to replace Air Filter every 10,000 as I anyway tap and clean the same every 3-4K kms.

[Rajain]

Hi

There must be some standards for very dusty conditions as well. Places like the desert or construction sites.

I would not be surprised if the filter is clogged in lesser kms as well.

In Leh the filters are cleaned/replaced at more frequent intervals.


Cheers
Rajain

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I got this windtone after experimenting with Minda & Hella and none lasted more than 6 months. I hope your Roots is working flawlessly as well.

Sheel, this update ends the proper functioning of the Roots Windtone Horns that may have easily served me for over a Lakh Kilometers now. Off late, one of the horns was showing signs of weakness and emitting funny noises and at times working absolutely fine.

I first checked the plugs on the horn end for any rust or loose contact but that wasn't the case. Then I connected my original horns and checked if they worked fine and isolated the horn relay itself was perfect and it was indeed as the OE horns worked without any issues.

The major problem was when the horn was pressed for more than a second or two and it would have these weird sounds. Generally I have a habit of pressing the Horn button shorter than second and release and its only when I see someone suddenly changing lane while I am overtaking or similar situations when I use it for more than 2 seconds.

So I went to a nearby shop and picked up something else this time: A Pair of Hella. I bought them instead of the same Windtone again only for a change and nothing else. Thought will hear different sound from the usual windtone for the next few years .

So, along with the horn, I carried out few more quick DIYs last week before I drove to Aurangabad and back covering 2200 kms during that round trip. The updates below refer to these:

Horn Replacement:

The job was easy but due to the placement of the second horn almost below, removal of bumper was imminent.




Fog Lamp cleaning

Since I had already removed the bumper, I had easy access to remove the fog lamp assemblies.



The fog lamps had over a period of time (read usage) developed rough surfaces. At first when I felt it from hand, I thought that this was dust but realised later that the surface itself had become rough, perhaps due to splashing of pebbles and sand particles whenever driven on roads where there is work in progress etc.

The cleaning attempt was futile - The results were far from satisfactory as the problem was that the surface itself had given away that no amount of cleaning with Tar remover or colin made any difference whatsoever.

Used Abro Tar and Bug Remover to initially clean the surface of any stuck tar particles but It wasn't the case:





You can notice that there is hardly any difference between what it was before (left) and what it turned out to be (right) after cleaning:



It only means I will need to buy a new pair to get the shine back.

Parking/Pilot Lamp replacement:

One of the bulbs had fused. I replaced both of them as they weren't too much heavy on the pocket anyway.





Air-Filter & MAF Sensor Cleaning:

Something that I do on regular basis which is very necessary as dusty environments can clog the Air Filter very badly too. In one of the pictures below, you can notice how the Air Filter that had done less than 5000 kms had accumulated so much of dust despite of me driving in mostly non-dusty conditions.







Automated Wash:

Only on experimental basis I visited a place near my home (Yelahanka) and the experience was nothing short of satisfactory









Bangalore - Aurangabad - Bangalore Drive:

Happened last week between Friday & Sunday. I drove here along with my father and returned back late Sunday night covering ~2200 Kms with this round trip. A good wash, Clean Air Filter and recently cleaned MAF Sensor ensured that the highway experience was good and so was the overall Fuel Efficiency despite of 280 Kms of 2 Lane roads and typical overtakings for highway trucks in short intervals.



The ODO as of today is 15 kms short of 118,000 Mark.

Few trips in coming weeks : A lot of them as Holiday season starts and I will update as they happen.

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

It only means I will need to buy a new pair to get the shine back.

Before going ahead with the purchase, please give the lamps the toothpaste treatment once. Like this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...oothpaste.html

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

.]

Fog Lamp cleaning

Since I had already removed the bumper, I had easy access to remove the fog lamp assemblies.

Attachment 1622067

The fog lamps had over a period of time (read usage) developed rough surfaces. At first when I felt it from hand, I thought that this was dust but realised later that the surface itself had become rough, perhaps due to splashing of pebbles and sand particles whenever driven on roads where there is work in progress etc.

The cleaning attempt was futile - The results were far from satisfactory as the problem was that the surface itself had given away that no amount of cleaning with Tar remover or colin made any difference
]
.

You are right, the surface could have been eroded due to pebble hits. However before you replace them, get them home sometime. Some light sanding and polishing will get back the original shine and surface finish. Only thing is this isnt possible by hand and needs to be done with a machine. Hence we can put my polisher to use

Also, when using a bug and tar remover on plastic surfaces , one should make sure it isnt solvent based. If it is, then the plastic surface will be ruined. Solvent is very dangerous on headlight assemblies.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

Before going ahead with the purchase, please give the lamps the toothpaste treatment once. Like this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...oothpaste.html

Thanks DD. If you refer the picture of cleaning in progress, that white stuff is toothpaste only .

May be I forgot to mention that along with Colin.

I have been using Toothpaste to clean my windscreen, sun glasses and lights many times in the past.

In this case the Fog lamps' surface itself has become rough (not dull) that no amount of cleaning process can restore that.

Originally Posted by audioholic

However before you replace them, get them home sometime. Some light sanding and polishing will get back the original shine and surface finish. Only thing is this isnt possible by hand and needs to be done with a machine. Hence we can put my polisher to use

That's something we should try for sure if that is going to make this any better.

Also, when using a bug and tar remover on plastic surfaces , one should make sure it isnt solvent based. If it is, then the plastic surface will be ruined. Solvent is very dangerous on headlight assemblies.

I use this very very rarely. Like you already know once I used this to remove Tar stuck on the alloy and it managed to come out neatly.

Also, this bug remover has clear instructions on not using this on glass surfaces. My headlights are clean and mostly usual washing and waxing them to shine works all the time.

I only suspected the rough surface to be tar and tried little spray and started rubbing. However nothing really got "removed" which otherwise I notice easily when the stray start becoming brown and then black (as tar melts) .

[paragsachania]

Another day, another Milestone...

This happened on the way to Hassan yesterday



An update on the drop in performance issue:

Since I had last updated on this thread that the issue was resolved and I had a very good experience/drive to Aurangabad last month, the issue resurfaced.

Since the past troubleshooting had given a lot of learning, It was evident that the problem was either fuel, the fuel lines, the filter or perhaps clogged Injectors.

The issue isn't really something a technician or a friend or a colleague can understand unless he pays very deep attention while driving. For anyone else, it gives an impression that all is well - No drop in FE, No Drop in top end performance but somewhere a bit of unusual heaviness felt.

Fuel tank cleaning:

Suspecting that the fuel tank would have got dirt, it was cleaned too and a new filter was installed after cleaning the tank. For all of you who think you need to clean the tank after 1L (Diesel), I was in for a surprise as there were no traces of dirt in the tank when it was cleaned.

For a record, my 11 year old WagonR's Fuel tank has never been cleaned till date and the Fuel filter replaced just once after 200k Kms few years before.

Low Pressure Fuel Pump?

We had to isolate and rule out each component related to fuel. Next one was this thats located right on the tank. So we swapped the fuel tank of another Ertiga belonging to the dealership with mine - Easier to swap the entire tank than remove the pump from both tanks as the Pump is fitted on the tank itself. Result - No change whatsoever.

Injectors clogged?

Now this looks like the closest culprit. I have tried System D and driven on highways in the past 3 weeks but to no avail. Then placed order for Liqui Moly Diesel Purge, an Injector cleaner (and not an additive) which should hopefully arrive today or tomorrow.

I intend to use this as prescribed by Liqui Moly by removing the feeder and return pipes from the Fuel Filter, disable the Fuel system by removing the necessary fuses an relays and then run the car with these 2 pipes immersed in this can. Mind you, this is THE way to use this and not simply mix the contents in the fuel tank as its clearly a cleaner and not a fuel additive.

Will share the results this week as I manage to test.

The ODO should easily cross 125K in the next 30 days with few drives planned. The Rail keeps chugging....

This episode will indeed be an eye opener and a learning for me and others - On whether injectors can get clogged after 1L and if so, how to resolve the issue. Diesels, the adulteration and hence the art of driving and maintaining it

As for me, I have been super finicky with this one - Its not something one would bother as the driving experience isn't really getting affected but very lightly. So the aim remains to resolve it, in the right way, isolating anything that is not causing this.

[Herbie98]

The issue isn't really something a technician or a friend or a colleague can understand unless he pays very deep attention while driving. For anyone else, it gives an impression that all is well - No drop in FE, No Drop in top end performance but somewhere a bit of unusual heaviness felt.

I completely agree, any amount of trying to explain this issue is useless. Its felt only by a keen driver. Nice that you were able to spot this. Cleaning injectors in time helps to extend their life.

Fuel tank cleaning:

Suspecting that the fuel tank would have got dirt, it was cleaned too and a new filter was installed after cleaning the tank. For all of you who think you need to clean the tank after 1L (Diesel), I was in for a surprise as there were no traces of dirt in the tank when it was cleaned.

As expected, for a person like you who takes care of where to fill in diesel, the fuel tank will always remain clean. Mine was found clean at 2,10,000 kms when it was cleaned.

Low Pressure Fuel Pump?

We had to isolate and rule out each component related to fuel. Next one was this thats located right on the tank. So we swapped the fuel tank of another Ertiga belonging to the dealership with mine - Easier to swap the entire tank than remove the pump from both tanks as the Pump is fitted on the tank itself. Result - No change whatsoever.

Many people suspect this, but most of the times the fuel pumps (both the tank & the fuel injection pump) are found to be in good working condition.

Injectors clogged?

Now this looks like the closest culprit. I have tried System D and driven on highways in the past 3 weeks but to no avail.

Yes, most likely fuel injectors would be partially clogged. Generally most cars in India after 1 lac kms start having these issues. (Toyotas are the only one who doesn't seem to have this kind of injector clogging issues even after 2-3 lakhs of kms). System D helps to an extent, but does not clean up clogged injectors completely. My experience of System D on Bolero DI is that engine feels little more smoother and refined and very marginal fuel efficiency of increase of 0.2 to 0.3 kmpl.

I intend to use this as prescribed by Liqui Moly by removing the feeder and return pipes from the Fuel Filter, disable the Fuel system by removing the necessary fuses an relays and then run the car with these 2 pipes immersed in this can. Mind you, this is THE way to use this and not simply mix the contents in the fuel tank as its clearly a cleaner and not a fuel additive.

Will share the results this week as I manage to test.

This will be an interesting trial, will be awaiting to know the results. If this works then its an good maintenance find. Since each injector for 1.3 MJD costs around Rs 12000 and many people have reported failures around the 1.5 lakh km range.


All my above views are based on my Bolero which has done 248k kms and Qualis / Innova / Swift / i20 / old Verna / Indica V2 diesels in my family & friends circle. Had to have fuel injector removed and cleaned two times - once at 96,000 kms and next at 2,10,000 kms. Mico Bosch auto diesel centers do the job of cleaning and calibrating fuel injectors.

Thanks for sharing all these details. Your ownership review on Ertiga is kind of Wikipedia for Ertiga.

Thank you!

[rajwheelz]

Parag Bhai,

I own a 2013-ZDI and it's been through the sync-ring replacement under warranty ( ~ 10k kms ) in 2015. Also, it's been through the ABS actuator assembly replacement under warranty ( ~ 58k kms ) in Jan 2017.

Now I'm facing an issue with frequent EPS light ON problem when starting the car. Reported it in this thread.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post4184361 (Maruti Ertiga - Power Steering Issue)

Though the engineer fixed it, there is no way of verifying if the problem is solved or not. Within a month, the problem surfaced again today morning.

Today I was going through your thread and came upon this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3739759

I unfortunately am seeing this noise problem also in the basement of my apartment and also my office. When I turn the steering right/left, i hear this "Tak-Tak" noise.

Could it be possible the EPS light and the steering rack issues are related? Did you see this light go ON when you faced the noise problem?

Any questions you want to suggest which I can pose to the SA? I dont want to buy his "Torque sensor coupling loose saar" argument anymore.

I will be visiting the MASS the approaching weekend.

Thanks a lot for your help & Advice.

[KMT]

Have you cleaned out the intercooler?

[rakesh_r]

Parag, based on my very limited experience, is the idling erratic? That's one of the typical symptom of a unhealthy injector. If you know a good Bosch service centre, you can get the injectors inspected by them. Please note, injector cleaning is a complex process. Post cleaning they will need to be calibrated. Does MASS do this by themselves or get the job done by someone else?

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by rajwheelz

Though the engineer fixed it, there is no way of verifying if the problem is solved or not. Within a month, the problem surfaced again today morning.

Issues like these needs to be troubleshot by isolating many of the suspects - Wiring/Coupling, Torque Sensor itself.

If the issue has resurfaced again, its time for you to visit the ASC, explain the recurrence and ask them to diagnose it well and then fix it than do an interim fix. You can ask them to verify the wiring (You can demand that you be shown that all is well). Once that is done, ask them to fit a Torque sensor of another Ertiga and you use it for a week - There will be many Ertigas in their Body shop needing repairs or they may have their own TD car. They cannot give you reasons that they wont be able to make arrangement to check a torque sensor of another Ertiga. At the same time,let them connect your Ertiga's sensor to their's and they can test that too.

This way you will be able to ascertain the right cause.

Today I was going through your thread and came upon this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3739759

I unfortunately am seeing this noise problem also in the basement of my apartment and also my office. When I turn the steering right/left, i hear this "Tak-Tak" noise.

Tak- Tak can be due to 2 reasons:

1. Steering Rack itself
2. Friction/Rubbing caused due to outer spring of suspension strut rubbing against the housing

To isolate 2, just visit a Water Wash center, ask them to spray pressurized water on the suspension struts (Springs) with your wheels turned away. After that try to turn the steering wheel and check for the noise.

If the rack is causing the issue, you will be able to hear the noise even when engine is turned off and you turning the steering wheel by just 10 degrees left or right - Kat Kat noise will be heard indicating a faulty/worn out steering rack.

The noise that I had was not related to yours - It was mainly when passing over bad roads that this noise appeared giving a feeling that the rack was loose.

Also, that issue appeared when Odo was 55,000 kms and now the replacement rack has done 65,000 kms and doing perfectly fine - No noises whatsoever. So the OE rack was precisely a faulty one or rather it gave up pretty soon by my standards.

Could it be possible the EPS light and the steering rack issues are related? Did you see this light go ON when you faced the noise problem?

As I mentioned earlier, mine was purely a mechanical (Rack Pinion) problem and not related to anything electronic (Sensor) or Electrical (Steering Motor).

Originally Posted by KMT

Have you cleaned out the intercooler?

Once till now and hardly any trace of dirt when this was done.

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Parag, based on my very limited experience, is the idling erratic?

Not at all Rakesh. The idling is well settled as the DTC also showed the current RPM matched the Desired RPM all the time.

As an analogy, think of this as a situation where water is rushing out of a pipe and you have stepped on it but very lightly, not really affecting the overall throughput but still blocking free flow .

That's one of the typical symptom of a unhealthy injector.

Its not the Tank, The fuel, the Filter or either of the Pumps - Low Pressure or FIP. So it has to be the injectors.

And as I type this, I had also pinged Leoshashi 2 days before that things are back to normal even before I attempted to clean. The issue has vanished without a trace but knowing that it can resurface again, cleaning the injectors with the cleaner stuff that arrived last week will do a lot of justice at his age.

If you know a good Bosch service centre, you can get the injectors inspected by them. Please note, injector cleaning is a complex process. Post cleaning they will need to be calibrated. Does MASS do this by themselves or get the job done by someone else?

That is the last thing on my mind - Removing the injectors and getting them checked and calibrated by Bosch. I have had this experience for a friend's Palio MJD and recall how tedious the process is.

If at all I am able to solve this without removing the injectors, I will be more than happy and now that the issue has vanished, I Know for sure that its trivial but bugging me once in a while.

And nope, Maruti will not do the job of checking and calibrating the injectors as they too send it to Bosch for testing he same.

Will keep you posted as I use the Liqui Moly Diesel Purge some time this week. I would have easily managed to carry out this DIY as soon as it arrived but am super tied up with some personal stuff that this has taken a back seat and I will visit the ASC to get this done - All my tools are packed as we move to a new home next week .

[snaseer]

HI Parag,

I am planning to buy an Ertiga soon and your thread has been of a great help in deciding the same. Just one query is that can Ertiga handle bad roads for a long period. for example Ladakh.