[Turbanator]

I believe 11 Lacs you paid is OTR. The current OTR price will be around 16 Lacs.

At that time Governments were not that greedy , I paid less than Rs 5000 as RTO including agent commission , Insurance used to cost 25-30 k if I remember correctly .

Seeing current prices from Hyundai ( Creta ) & Maruti ( S Cross ) this looks most VFM car available - perhaps underrated due to looks or don't why people don't buy this as much

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Seeing current prices from Hyundai ( Creta ) & Maruti ( S Cross ) this looks most VFM car available - perhaps underrated due to looks or don't why people don't buy this as much

Not sure I'd agree, infact I would even go as far as to say that it is the most overrated car in its segment.

Let us not compare it to crossovers since we all know that the R&D costs incurred to engineer and manufacture a crossover are much higher than that of a Sedan. Instead why not compare the car to its rivals? The rest of the D1 segment sedans, all offer the complete feeling that one usually associates with a sedan that costs more than around 15lakh otr. The Jetta adds dynamic prowess to the mix, Octavia adds the opulence of a D2 segment car, Elantra is loaded to the gills with features you can show off to your mates, Cruze comes with muscular proportions and styling along with dollops of torque, Fluence does a bit of everything including staying dynamically balanced while also maintaining superior ride comfort all with that subtle yet sophisticated design flair. Couple those characteristics to the fact that every single rival car on sale in the market today, offers far more safety kit, and the Corolla's case built solely on its reliability and comfy rear bench, begins to crumble.
Compared to the rest of the D1 segment competition, the Corolla seems a bit lackluster. Sure it has a very comfy rear bench and is backed by Toyota's supreme reliability but if you are willing to let go of the quality and build that comes with a D segment car (ofcourse in exchange for keeping a healthier bank balance), you can have all the same attributes in a Honda City

PS: This is just my opinion backed by reasoning that appears most logical to me. Apologies if I have offended anyone out there especially Corolla owners as I did not mean to

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Compared to the rest of the D1 segment competition, the Corolla seems a bit lackluster. Sure it has a very comfy rear bench and is backed by Toyota's supreme reliability but if you are willing to let go of the quality and build that comes with a D segment car (ofcourse in exchange for keeping a healthier bank balance), you can have all the same attributes in a Honda City

Actually I had thought the same. On paper the City is very competent and you would end up thinking that the Altis was overrated as the City offered almost everything the Altis has. This is somewhat true for the diesel.

However once you sit in the new Altis and City you realise how poor the City interiors are. The quality of materials and fit and finish don't come anywhere close. The rough edges on the City vs the soft touch plastics on the Altis and much better fit and finish are a league apart.

At nearly 22 lakhs it's not VFM but clearly it's selling. Infact it's the highest seller at 400-500 units monthly.

The Jetta and Octavia are brilliant and definitely much more premium in feel but a top end Altis petrol CVT is 3-4 lakhs lesser than the Octavia TSI with the infamous 7 speed DSG.

Reliability is an important factor and amongst the top reasons the Altis sells so well but it's quite a well engineered car. The 140PS petrol engine is very refined and quite spirited to drive. The 7 speed CVT-i is possibly the best CVT implementation out there and overall as an AT box it's only bettered by the VW DSG units.

For 22 lakhs you get a car which is very practical, reliable, has good amount of space, good FE for a petrol and reasonably feature packed. It misses on key safety features like ESP and rear airbags but other than it has all the features in the segment.

It's actually like the Honda city of the C2 segment. The VW Vento, Skoda Rapid, Hyundai Verna are all very good packages whereas the City doesn't do anything particularly great and yet is the best selling.

Having said that, I did consider the Altis CVT as an upgrade to my old Altis but decided against it as it wasn't a huge jump vs my car.

[Turbanator]

Let us not compare it to crossovers since we all know that the R&D costs incurred to engineer and manufacture a crossover are much higher than that of a Sedan

Really , I wont have clue to this but what I know for sure is Corolla is one of the largest selling car on planet and is designed for developed as well developing markets unlike some of crossovers designed only for developing countries .

I agree newer cars do have lot of costs - depreciation of new plant , R&D and blitz marketing more than anything else but as a customer why should I be bothered with all that , if a manufacturer can share costs of manufacturing / development across different variants / regions what's the harm . Not sure what will be value of such crossovers after a decade but be assured corolla will still be doing good after 10 years - they just kind of get better with age probably

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

However once you sit in the new Altis and City you realise how poor the City interiors are. The quality of materials and fit and finish don't come anywhere close. The rough edges on the City vs the soft touch plastics on the Altis and much better fit and finish are a league apart.

The fact is at the end of the day a D segment car will always feel like the more complete product. I did mention in my post that build quality would not be the same however that is more than made up for in the nearly 8 lakhs that you would save (top-end auto petrols), considering the Corolla is not offering anything else over the City, according to me (City's CVT is also pretty darn good had it not been for the Corolla, it would have been the best CVT unit this side of 30 lakhs.)

Originally Posted by Vid6639

At nearly 22 lakhs it's not VFM but clearly it's selling. Infact it's the highest seller at 400-500 units monthly.

Never argued that it doesn't sell. It sure does, hence my usage of the term overrated

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The Jetta and Octavia are brilliant and definitely much more premium in feel but a top end Altis petrol CVT is 3-4 lakhs lesser than the Octavia TSI with the infamous 7 speed DSG.

Reliability is an important factor and amongst the top reasons the Altis sells so well but it's quite a well engineered car. The 140PS petrol engine is very refined and quite spirited to drive. The 7 speed CVT-i is possibly the best CVT implementation out there and overall as an AT box it's only bettered by the VW DSG units.

For 22 lakhs you get a car which is very practical, reliable, has good amount of space, good FE for a petrol and reasonably feature packed. It misses on key safety features like ESP and rear airbags but other than it has all the features in the segment.

Sure the car comes with one of the best CVTs out there but it really is not something I'd be doing any spirited driving in. I'd guess most won't either considering the lack of feedback in the drive. Thus saving a lakh and going for the torque converter equipped, equally boring to drive Elantra or saving a lakh and going for the torque converter equipped Cruze, both make for good arguments. The Elantra would be more loaded with features, the Cruze would offer that stonker of a diesel motor with its fuel cost saving advantages and both would offer more safety kit. So essentially if you want an automatic, you could save a lakh, get stability program, atleast double the number of airbags and choose between a diesel or more features (that CVT box doesnt seem so good in the face of such offers now does it?).

The 1.8 motor is silky smooth and very tractable too but I'd rather save 1.5 lakhs and go for the 1.4 tsi Jetta if I were buying a manual petrol

If a practical, comfy diesel is what you desire, then the Fluence trumps the Corolla hollow in nearly every department. Also, you end up saving nearly 2 lakhs not to mention discounts that any seasoned buyer would be able to haggle out of Renault dealers.

All I am trying to demonstrate is that the car not only lacks appeal to me, I can save money and get more safety kit as well as soul if I choose to go with any of the rivals. As for the Octavia, to me it feels like all I need to do is spend a couple more lakhs to get a D2 segment car, makes a strong case for itself again.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It's actually like the Honda city of the C2 segment. The VW Vento, Skoda Rapid, Hyundai Verna are all very good packages whereas the City doesn't do anything particularly great and yet is the best selling.

Having said that, I did consider the Altis CVT as an upgrade to my old Altis but decided against it as it wasn't a huge jump vs my car.

Could not have said it better myself. I suppose it is the City of the bunch but in a more pronounced manner. I suppose if it had offered more like it ought to have, the car would have sold much more and done justice to the name Corolla as an offering to consumers and as a name in Toyota's legacy.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Really , I wont have clue to this but what I know for sure is Corolla is one of the largest selling car on planet and is designed for developed as well developing markets unlike some of crossovers designed only for developing countries .

I agree newer cars do have lot of costs - depreciation of new plant , R&D and blitz marketing more than anything else but as a customer why should I be bothered with all that , if a manufacturer can share costs of manufacturing / development across different variants / regions what's the harm . Not sure what will be value of such crossovers after a decade but be assured corolla will still be doing good after 10 years - they just kind of get better with age probably

None of the similarly priced Crossovers are made for developing countries mate. That is usually done for sub 10 lakh products. I am not talking about newer cars but any Crossover or SUV is as a rule always going to be more expensive for the manufacturer to produce than a Sedan, and hey I never argued that the Corolla was not reliable or was not popular or did not command good resale value so I'm not sure why I needed to be quoted to point that out. Infact it was you who remarked that it was underrated and did not sell as much.

In the end, like I said in my disclaimer, the car simply does not appeal to me and these posts merely serve the purpose of justifying my opinion. The D segment is dying and the Corolla does sell more than its peers however do you guys really think that an average of four to five hundred units a month for a new product carrying such a legendary name, is that great? That is about 40% less than how many units of the Cruze a less established brand like Chevrolet, was selling in India back when the car was new. So perhaps my reasoning actually chimes with a lot of other potential customers out there, no?

Cheers!

[Turbanator]

Corolla does sell more than its peers however do you guys really think that an average of four to five hundred units a month for a new product carrying such a legendary name, is that great?

agreed , if I am responsible to handle Toyota India affairs - with kind of products they have - I can surely double their Net Sales & profits - they are like Giant - just don't move - they have so many products for our market and they are doing nothing - just sitting and trying to push / justify investments made on Vios siblings - there real market is elsewhere - let Suzuki / Nissan enjoy small business , India is growing there are more people at this time who can spend 20 Lac or 30 Lac then there were 5 years back

I'm not sure why I needed to be quoted to point that out

perhaps I mistook your views

[Vid6639]

Good points Ishaan. Adding a few more from my side.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

The fact is at the end of the day a D segment car will always feel like the more complete product. I did mention in my post that build quality would not be the same however that is more than made up for in the nearly 8 lakhs that you would save (top-end auto petrols), considering the Corolla is not offering anything else over the City, according to me (City's CVT is also pretty darn good had it not been for the Corolla, it would have been the best CVT unit this side of 30 lakhs.)

A D segment car does feel more complete and one with much lesser compromises or the cost cutting seen in the lower segments.

The City is 8 lakhs cheaper but only makes sense if you are currently owning a car below the C2 segment. A current Altis owner can never go down to the City. I thought I could convince myself of the City but after a few extended drives it was just too much of a downgrade.

The CVT was no doubt good but nowhere close to the Altis unit.

Sure the car comes with one of the best CVTs out there but it really is not something I'd be doing any spirited driving in. I'd guess most won't either considering the lack of feedback in the drive. Thus saving a lakh and going for the torque converter equipped, equally boring to drive Elantra or saving a lakh and going for the torque converter equipped Cruze, both make for good arguments. The Elantra would be more loaded with features, the Cruze would offer that stonker of a diesel motor with its fuel cost saving advantages and both would offer more safety kit. So essentially if you want an automatic, you could save a lakh, get stability program, atleast double the number of airbags and choose between a diesel or more features (that CVT box doesnt seem so good in the face of such offers now does it?).

As a chauffeur driven vehicle, the Elantrs makes sense and again I took my dad for a TD. A few kms later it was rejected. The rear seats were lower than the Altis and the high window line made him feel uncomfortable. I drove the diesel AT and it was very convincing because of fuel saving and price but the small rear seat flaw meant it was ruled out. Plus you will be surprised to hear that Hyundai has totally orphaned the Elantra and cars higher. It's almost impossible to get a test drive easily as no dealers stock the car. In Hyderabad they have no interest in giving even a TD. This really reduces your confidence in the Elantra.

Less said the better about Cruze rear seat and fit and finish. GM themselves don't want to sell it looks like.

The 1.8 motor is silky smooth and very tractable too but I'd rather save 1.5 lakhs and go for the 1.4 tsi Jetta if I were buying a manual petrol

The Jetta is an awesome option for anyone looking at the manual. Unfortunately bulk of the sales are for the MT in this segment and VW don't offer the TSI with the DSG. I would have gotten a Jetta TSI DSG if this option was made available.

If a practical, comfy diesel is what you desire, then the Fluence trumps the Corolla hollow in nearly every department. Also, you end up saving nearly 2 lakhs not to mention discounts that any seasoned buyer would be able to haggle out of Renault dealers.

In diesel there is no doubt that the Altis is the worse of the lot. I don't know how they had the courage to sell a D segment car with a 1.4L engine and 88BHP. If anyone is looking for a diesel car in this segment there is absolutely no reason to choose the Altis.

The Fluence, Cruze and Elantra are far far better. Then you also get the Jetta Comfortline and Octavia Ambition which are in another league.

All I am trying to demonstrate is that the car not only lacks appeal to me, I can save money and get more safety kit as well as soul if I choose to go with any of the rivals. As for the Octavia, to me it feels like all I need to do is spend a couple more lakhs to get a D2 segment car, makes a strong case for itself again.

The thing is it may lack appeal to you but clearly in this segment it's the pick for the buyers.

It's a very boring car although with the new one they have tried to change that to a certain extent. But that's also the USP. It's boring but gets the job done day in and day out without complaint. After 6 years I'm still racking my brains what to get and the thing is there is nothing wrong with it so you wonder why change at all. Close to 70,000kms and the only part that has ever been replaced is the rear brake pads. At the same time it never spends the night at the garage except once.

Could not have said it better myself. I suppose it is the City of the bunch but in a more pronounced manner. I suppose if it had offered more like it ought to have, the car would have sold much more and done justice to the name Corolla as an offering to consumers and as a name in Toyota's legacy

Toyota India has goofed up big time with the new Altis. Not offering 6 airbags, ESP and some other essential features is unpardonable. What's worse is I realised there are some features on my car that have been chopped on the new one!

The D segment is dying and the Corolla does sell more than its peers however do you guys really think that an average of four to five hundred units a month for a new product carrying such a legendary name, is that great? That is about 40% less than how many units of the Cruze a less established brand like Chevrolet, was selling in India back when the car was new. So perhaps my reasoning actually chimes with a lot of other potential customers out there, no?

This is the industry trend for the D segment sedan. We even have an interesting thread on that.

The Altis and Civic used to sell well above 1000-2000 cars just a few years back. The C2 segment got so competitive that it has nearly wiped out the D segment. The Vento, Rapid, Verna, City offer 90% of what a D segment car gives you but at nearly 60% of the price. Net result is people jump straight from C2 to D2 as the D segment doesn't give a significant upgrade justifying the price.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

A D segment car does feel more complete and one with much lesser compromises or the cost cutting seen in the lower segments.

The City is 8 lakhs cheaper but only makes sense if you are currently owning a car below the C2 segment. A current Altis owner can never go down to the City. I thought I could convince myself of the City but after a few extended drives it was just too much of a downgrade.

The CVT was no doubt good but nowhere close to the Altis unit.

That is most certainly true even no-compromise C2 sedans like the Fiesta, Rapid/Vento will still feel like a major downgrade to someone who is looking to replace their D segment sedan even if it is a few generations older. However, build and feel cannot be the only distinguishing factors between offerings from the two segments. It is almost like the folks at Toyota India, are helping to kill the appeal of the D segment sedan

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Toyota India has goofed up big time with the new Altis. Not offering 6 airbags, ESP and some other essential features is unpardonable. What's worse is I realised there are some features on my car that have been chopped on the new one!

This is the biggest reason why I actively debate against their premium offerings in India. Woah well I had no idea they went that far could you maybe highlight the features that have been withdrawn?

Originally Posted by Vid6639

This is the industry trend for the D segment sedan. We even have an interesting thread on that.

Would love a link to this thread please

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The thing is it may lack appeal to you but clearly in this segment it's the pick for the buyers.

No doubting it is the most popular, however I feel that a new diesel, more significant updates to the NA 1.8 Petrol, full safety kit and a few more creature comforts on the inside to build on the car's strengths, would do wonders to boost the sales. I feel as though it is riding on the fact that it is a reliable Toyota too much and for a D segment sedan, that is unacceptable to not distinguish itself from lower segments more effortlessly. It may sell the most but if I were working for Toyota, I would be very unhappy selling just 500 units a month of a brand new product carrying the legendary Corolla marque. I think they have lost plenty of potential customers; the points I highlighted are the ones that strike a buyer first before the height of the waistline or the under-thigh support and these stop a lot of aspiring buyers in their tracks. I am sure that just the spartan safety kit and poor diesel motors alone have put away several potential buyers I myself may never have wanted to own the car but now I cannot even recommend the car due to these reasons to anyone like I may have recommended the old Altis over a Civic or Laura to certain folks several years ago. Brands like Skoda/VW or Renault or Chevrolet are crippled by issues with reputation, cost of ownership and how well their D segment sedans perform in the grueling conditions of India (VAG products especially). Topping the segment charts should never have been Toyota's goal. It ought to have been to consolidate the existence of the D segment sedan preventing it from fading away and inspiring other manufacturers to carry out local development and manufacture of parts for their future models.

Thoroughly enjoying this. Discussions like these remind me why I log in to the forum everyday

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

This is the biggest reason why I actively debate against their premium offerings in India. Woah well I had no idea they went that far could you maybe highlight the features that have been withdrawn?

A few noticeable omissions:

1. They no longer give mudflaps as standard. My car has body coloured mudflaps as OE from the factory. This is now a paid accessory!
2. Front centre arm rest no longer slides forward and is fixed.
3. The vanity mirrors no longer get lights that come on automatically when you slide the cover.
4. With the new LED headlights the headlamp washers are removed.
5. Door beading in chrome is an accessory now whereas it was OE on mine.

The above are small omissions but still inexcusable at 22 lakhs.

Would love a link to this thread please

Here you go:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ura-et-al.html (The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al))

No doubting it is the most popular, however I feel that a new diesel, more significant updates to the NA 1.8 Petrol, full safety kit and a few more creature comforts on the inside to build on the car's strengths, would do wonders to boost the sales. I feel as though it is riding on the fact that it is a reliable Toyota too much and for a D segment sedan, that is unacceptable to not distinguish itself from lower segments more effortlessly. It may sell the most but if I were working for Toyota, I would be very unhappy selling just 500 units a month of a brand new product carrying the legendary Corolla marque.

Agreed. The car has the potential to sell more but Toyota India have missed out on it because they got greedy. The Corolla Altis in 2008 was legendary as it completely dethroned the Civic which was enjoying the top spot since 2006. To dethrone the Civic they went all out with the features and at the time it was one of the most loaded cars after the Laura.

When the new Altis came out in 2014 it went to the bottom of the pack in features. Toyota thought they could ride on the old Altis and get away with it. Sadly they have partially managed to.

Yes, if the Altis got 6 airbags, ESP, sunroof and other goodies it would be a much more complete package.

The petrol engine is quite potent and not a cause for complain unless you compare it to the explosive 1.8 TSI motor. The diesel is absolutely rubbish.

I guess in the end this is the problem not with Toyota but any car. The Octavia would be perfect if it was more reliable and had better after sales. The Jetta misses some features as well.

The Elantra is a good package but mechanically they are behind. The 1.8L petrol is refined but doesn't feel anything like 145 BHP. The 6 speed transmission is now ancient when compared to the DSG and CVT-i. The 1.6 diesel is acceptable.

So whichever car you look at there's something missing.

You need to convince yourself pretty strongly in case of the Altis. Priorities should not be fun to drive or outright features.

The Altis targets those customers that need comfortable A-B transport either when driving or being driven. They are not looking for fun to drive, just relaxed effortless no nonsense driving. They expect the car to be available all the time with minimal downtime and don't want to be addressing any issues. Reliability is important. Basically fuss free motoring.

Whenever I drive my Altis (usually over the weekend), it reminds me of the above traits. It just goes about it job day in and day out without fuss. It's effortless and just works!

On the other hand, everytime I get into the Jetta, it brings a smile but underlying I always get the feeling it's not as carefree as the Altis.

[tarunp]

Just bought a Pearl White 1.8 G A/T last week and drove it from Mumbai to Goa. This is my first Toyota and I can unequivocally state that it's the best car I have owned or driven over the last 25 years.

[landcruiser123]

Severus, it's been long since we got an update, don't you think?
I'm sure the Corolla has been running without any issues. What is the kind of FE figures do you achieve in the city?

[dubstar]

Hi Severus

Excellent review and pics, based on which I have booked the same model in the same colour!

Quick question regarding the tyres - I am little confused as some reviews complain about the tyres getting noisy after 15-20,000 kms. Could you share your feedback on the same?

I am getting my car on the 15th, debating upgrading the tyres, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Severus]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I'm sure the Corolla has been running without any issues. What is the kind of FE figures do you achieve in the city?

Lately the FE has somewhat increased. During the first year, it used to be around 8.4 - 8.5 kmpl. But since a few months now, it's consistently giving 8.8 - 8.9 kmpl. Not complaining!

I'll take a snap of the MFD showing the FE figure and post it here in 1-2 days.

Originally Posted by dubstar

Hi Severus

Excellent review and pics, based on which I have booked the same model in the same colour!

Quick question regarding the tyres - I am little confused as some reviews complain about the tyres getting noisy after 15-20,000 kms. Could you share your feedback on the same?

I am getting my car on the 15th, debating upgrading the tyres, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Dubstar, thank you. Great to know that you got an identical car!

Well, to be honest, I also feel that over time the tyres have gotten slightly noisier (very slightly), though it's not uncomfortable at all, and certainly not a reason to reject the car. It's a small thing I noticed while cruising away on an empty road, so one would probably not even notice it in everyday driving. Could be a characteristic of this specific tyre, or maybe all tyres get noisy with time/distance.. not sure. Anyone with info on this is welcome to answer.


Getting a bath

[tarunp]

In Goa, I have been getting a FE of nearly 10 kmpl but that may be due to the traffic conditions (I have a Petrol G A/T). Tyres (Bridgestone) are still new - just 4000 kms - but pretty noisy on concrete surfaces on the highway. On tar surfaces, however no issue.The only minor niggle is the reliability of the MID in showing cruising range when the fuel is close to empty. On a recent trip, it moved from 75 km available to 25 km in 5 minutes, causing me considerable alarm!! Had it re-calibrated by Toyota, but the readings remain erratic as the fuel level nears empty. Anyone else faced this issue?

[Selective]

Originally Posted by tarunp

In Goa, I have been getting a FE of nearly 10 kmpl but that may be due to the traffic conditions (I have a Petrol G A/T). Tyres (Bridgestone) are still new - just 4000 kms - but pretty noisy on concrete surfaces on the highway. On tar surfaces, however no issue.The only minor niggle is the reliability of the MID in showing cruising range when the fuel is close to empty. On a recent trip, it moved from 75 km available to 25 km in 5 minutes, causing me considerable alarm!! Had it re-calibrated by Toyota, but the readings remain erratic as the fuel level nears empty. Anyone else faced this issue?

I have Petrol G-AT too and the FE is on an average 10 KMPL. My daily commute is around 45 kms to and from JP Nagar and Mahadevapura. I never faced any issues with MID, cruising range is consistent till now.