[BlackPearl]

With the ever increasing standards of Team-BHP it is getting very difficult to write a short/long term review of a vehicle. Gone are those days when you would write a few things and put up some pictures of your ride and post it on the forum. Some people were even audacious enough to post ownership threads without any picture of their rides!! Can you imagine this happening today? The result is that we as potential customers are getting proper ownership threads. But I am making no such claims about this ownership thread, simply because I could not become a better writer overnight. So I am sure this thread is going to be in assembly line for quite sometime, but I have faith that with perseverance and help from the Moderators, this thread will see the light of day.

Jumping straight to the point and introducing The Sherpa, a four weeks old Mahindra Thar CRDe 4x4, to team-bhp. Mentioning only Thar CRDe would have sufficed because there is only one variant of the CRDe i.e. 4x4, but there is a certain sense of pride in mentioning explicitly that it is indeed a 4x4. For those who are mumbling that it is a show off, what can I do? It is impossible not to show off the Thar.



Thar and the contenders

Now the question arises is why Thar, specially after my previous Thar bashing post a 2000 Km Sikkim trip in a friend's Thar. The answer is quite simple but unfortunately not a short one. I was stationed in UK for about 11 months along with my wife Rajsri. At the end of the term when we were coming back, both of us calculated that we could buy a vehicle with the savings. We were quite happy with the Bolero and the Esteem, but still wanted to go for a vehicle that would be capable as well as fast in the transport section. The Bolero lacked severely in this aspect as I have mentioned many times in my Bolero ownership thread. So there were mainly 2 criteria, the vehicle had to be 4x4 and it had to be decently fast. Thus the hunt started and we test drove several vehicles costing south of 30 lacs. It included the Storme, the old and new Scorpio, Duster AWD and the Fortuner, though the Fortuner was way out of budget. With money in the bank I had a feeling that I could buy anything below 16 lacs as I was planning to take a loan of max 6 lacs. But this feeling did not last long. We spent a substantial amount buying petrol and diesel for our two and half months of road trips
(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...oa-sikkim.html). Rajsri took advantage of my indecision and spent most of the remaining on decorating the apartment.

Suddenly the Storme VX 4x4 seemed to be way out of budget. Previously I was sold on the Storme after taking a TD as well as driving bhpian psurelia's Storme 4x4 (thanks Partha!!). Even Rajsri had acknowledged that the Safari Storme is indeed a very good vehicle. Meanwhile I had gone through almost all the threads on TBHP on Storme. I was hoping that Tata would come up with a refresh, reduce the price a bit to compete with the new Scorpio and also give 4x4 as an option in the LX trim. Wishful thinking.

Points in favour of Safari 4x4 -
1. Fast
2. Capable
3. Looks good
4. Ride quality is excellent
5. Loads of space

Against -
1. No 4x4 version in lesser trims
2. Low on gadgets for a price tag of 16.5 lacs
3. Comes with HT tyres from the factory in-spite of being 4x4

So the next target was the Scorpio S4 4WD. Test drove the Scorpio S10 multiple times as that was the only TD vehicle available. I liked the vehicle and it seemed to be a huge improvement over the previous one apart from the looks. Rajsri hated the looks of the Scorpio and rejected it straight away. I could not argue since I had got the 4WD Bolero on my terms. This time I had to listen to her.

Points in favour of Scorpio 4x4 -
1. Fast
2. Capable
3. Improved handling compared to the previous version
4. Available in lower trim

Against -
1. Looks, specially with that black rear cladding. Black Scorpio might look good.
2. Previous model had premature clutch failure issues. Need to see long term ownership reviews
3. Auto locking hub is a weak point

Then came the Duster AWD. I was again impressed by the slush handling capability of the Duster. The way it handled slush with those HT tyres was impressive. The Duster as a package made the most sense. It is good looking, capable, fast, has good safety features and has great ride quality. Whenever I drove my Esteem I used to admire a Duster passing by. But whenever I drove the Bolero the Duster seemed so puny, just like a raised hatchback. I mean no offense to Duster/Terrano owners, but this is how I felt. To me an SUV is not just about capability, it is about the presence as well. Also the pricing was close to Safari for the highest trim.

Points in favour of Duster AWD -
1. Best in class suspension and ride quality
2. Fast
3. Capable
4. Looks good
5. Better handling than the body on frame SUVs

Against -
1. Looks like a raised hatchback, lacks sheer road presence like the Safari or the Thar.
2. No low ratio gearbox, though the short first gear should be good enough for most applications
3. Too pricey at 15 lacs on road

Thus I was left with no choice but to postpone the buying decision.

Then one fine evening my friend with a Thar came to me saying that he was hearing a strange noise in his vehicle and asked me to have a look. During that trial Rajsri happened to drive it for a short distance, her first experience at the wheels of the Thar. That same evening Rajsri told me that she was bowled over by the acceleration of the Thar and I could buy it. But there was a caveat. It was that I should never ever ask her to sit at the back of the Thar.

Next afternoon I went to a Mahindra dealership and inquired about the availability of the Thar. They had a black Thar available as the person who had booked it was not being able to get his car loan sanctioned. They were asking me to immediately book the Thar with 50K as down payment. I was going back home to get the cheque book when I thought of visiting another nearby dealer as I was not too keen on getting a black Thar. Our first preference was the rocky beige colour. But the first dealer said that it would take almost 3 months to get that colour. Surprise was awaiting at the second dealership. I was told that they have a White Thar CRDe at their stockyard. I asked if I could have a look at it and the answer was positive. But I had to reach there before 5 'o' clock and it was already 10 minutes past 4. The stockyard was about 40 kms away on the Kona expressway. Thankfully I was driving the Esteem and tried every trick I knew to go fast on public roads. Reached the gates of the stockyard at 5:01 p.m. Requested the guard to let us enter and just have a look at the vehicle.

Thankfully the guard obliged and I had the first view of the "Diamond White" Thar standing proudly among innumerable other vehicles. Did the PDI as thoroughly as possible as I was unprepared and did not have the TBHP checklist with me. But this was not the first time I was doing PDI of a Mahindra vehicle.

The SUVs/UVs that did not feature on my wishlist were XUV, Terrano, Ecosport, Xenon and Aria.
XUV AWD was touching 17 lacs on road and lacked low ratio gearbox. The electronics have niggling issues as reported.
Terrano did not have AWD version.
Ecosport again did not have any AWD version and the looks did not appeal to me.
At one point of time I was almost sure that my next vehicle would be a Xenon but lack of any kind of effort on Tata's part to sell the Xenon has pushed me away from it.
I took a test drive of Aria base model just for the sake of doing it. The vehicle felt really good and I could not find anything against it as such. For a base model it was loaded with features and the ride quality was good. But the AWD version was again close to 18 lacs. I would go for a Storme at a lesser price because Storme looks better in my opinion.

The bargain and the on road price

Satisfied with the PDI we went back to the showroom and paid 5000 cash to book the vehicle. The ex-showroom price was 7.70 lacs. The bargaining began and the on-road price came to around 8.48 lacs including the corporate discount of Rs 6000. The on-road price included registration cost, handling charges, 5 year's road tax and bumper to bumper insurance. Once the price was finalised, I called up my father to find out how much I had in SIPs that I have been investing in since 2008. We found out that it was not enough and applied for a bank loan through SBI. There was one point mentioned during the bargaining process. It was agreed that I had to pay the full amount before 31st of October or else I would have to pay additional amount as the price of the Thar was going to be increased in November. The loan was disbursed in 3 days and I made the full payment on 30th October.

Delivery Process

We got the vehicle on the 1st of November 2014 with 35 kms on the odo. The delivery process was smooth. The sales manager from Mohan Motors had kept his word of delivering the vehicle in the afternoon. They held a customary hand-over event and also gave coupon for 10 litres diesel at a nearby bunk.









Initial Experience and the niggles

On our arrival at the showroom, Rajsri saw the vehicle for the first time and the colour did not match her expectation. What was white to me was not the same to her. She had expected a pristine white Thar and what was standing in front of her was cream-ish white

On our way back when I had almost convinced her that even this colour would look good with the aftermarket accessories, the Thar started playing games. Every two minutes the rear door would get unlocked despite my best efforts and would start rattling. It was an embarrassment. While parking the vehicle I found out that the tyres were squealing and screeching on tight slow turns. I could still live with a rattling door as I knew it was not a major problem, but this one got me thinking. The next day I took the vehicle to the work shop and strangely the service adviser could not replicate the issue. The door was however fixed, but it was not a permanent one as the lock has to be changed. What a coincidence as the same thing happened to my Bolero as well!! When we could not replicate the issue I was advised to take the vehicle back. They took the vehicle for another trial. When I was going to take the vehicle out I realized that the issue had come back. It was almost 6 'o' clock and the workshop was about to close. The workshop manager told me to come back the next day. I was very clear that I would return the vehicle if the problem was not resolved. Since the vehicle had not been registered yet I had the option of returning it. In the evening I asked my friend and bhpian Rajarshi to bring the Thar to my place and we tried the parking procedure on that. The tyres were squealing on the other Thar as well but not to the extent as mine.

That night I could not sleep properly as I was quite unhappy and was not able to understand what could be wrong. The next morning the Rajarshi called up and asked me to first engage the 4WD, then disengage and reverse for about 10 to 12 meters. I followed the instruction and behold!! the problem was resolved. Then I realized that the night before taking the Thar to the workshop I had done the same thing. Hence the service adviser was not able to replicate the issue in the morning. But during the trial in the afternoon some smart-ass must have engaged the 4wd and did not reverse properly resulting in the issue coming back. I was relieved that it was nothing but the notorious auto locking hub that was the culprit. Called up the dealership and asked them to register the vehicle. In order to make up for the harassment that I had to face due to the incompetence of the workshop, I asked the dealership to change the engine oil free of cost at the 1000 Km mark and also give under-body anti-rust coating for free, which they obliged.

Usage pattern

The Thar was sharing garage space with two Esteems and a Bolero. One of the Esteems has just been sold off. Our office is just 3 kms from our house and Rajsri and I work in the same office, but our timings differ. We mostly used to take the Esteems to office and the Bolero was kept for long distance travels. The Bolero has clocked around 55000 kms in 2 years and 9 months of which we were out of station for 11 months. It is my prediction that the Thar will not clock as much miles as the Bolero as our long distance travels have been significantly reduced. Only time will tell if I am right or not, though I would be very happy to be proved wrong. If we are able to manage the leaves and finance in future, I can guarantee that the Sherpa will spend significant amount of time in the Himalayas.

Safety features

The Thar has almost zero active and passive safety features. No Airbags, ABS, Traction Control etc.

Fuel Efficiency

I have driven the Thar sedately for the first 1000 kms and it returned a mileage of around 11.5 kmpl in city. After crossing the 1000 km mark, did some spirited highway driving and it returned 11.75 kmpl. On our 2000 Km Sikkim trip in my friend's Thar with 5 people on-board, the overall fuel efficiency achieved was about 10.7 kmpl. I am expecting similar figures for my Thar as well.

Off-roading Capability

It is very early to say about the off-roading capability of the Thar and I am not an avid off-roader. My 4WD usage with the Bolero has been mostly when required in the hills and a few mild off-roading events. The reports on this forum give high marks to the Thar for its capability and I am sure I will not be utilising the vehicle to its limits. I have been able to engage the 4WD only once on Thar yet and that too for a photo-shoot on a small mound. What impressed me was the articulation of the wheels in spite of having IFS at the front. It climbed the mound easily and the wheels were not slipping due to the articulation. A gypsy was struggling at the same place as one wheel was loosing traction due to lack of articulation.

NVH Levels

The engine is refined and smooth but there is too much wind noise. The soft top starts flapping at above 80 kmph and the noise can be tiresome over long distance. Investing in a music system is a must.

Warranty

The Thar comes with a one year and 36000 Kilometers warranty and there is no provision for extended warranty.

Accessories Added

1. Front bumper with winch plate from the Thar Expedition Kit
2. Insect mesh
3. Headlight grills
4. Side steps from the expedition kit
5. Pioneer head unit with JBL 6" and Oval 6x9 speakers
6. Hella Rallye 3000 lights
7. 15" HRS alloys with Michelin LTX AT 235/75/R15
8. 12v socket

The rear bumper and central console have arrived but are yet to be fitted.

The Thar getting kitted


Post installation


One of my friends was selling of his rocky beige Thar and he had Kumho Road Venture AT tyres on the vehicle. They were 31x10.5xR15 tyres on killer looking black HRS alloys. He had another set of alloys for the Thar as well. So I made a deal with him and got those tyres and alloys for my Thar. The tyres had 20000 kilometers on them and all I can say that I was not able to handle the Thar with those tyres. The vehicle was not stopping properly, the handling was all messed up and I ended up being unhappy. So within the next two days I found a person who was willing to get those tyres for his MM550. I got the Michelin LTX tyres from the Bolero installed on the 15" alloys and put them on the Thar. The Bolero is now running on the 16" Bridgestone Duelers.

Though the 235/75/R15 tyres are just about 0.1 inch more on the diameter than the stock Thar tyres, the front tyres are fouling with the plastic wheel arches under articulation. Maybe the front ride height needs to be adjusted. For now I have removed the wheel arches.

Interiors

The interiors have been improved over the previous version but there is still a long way to go to justify the price tag of Rs 8.5 lacs on road. There is now a cross beam between the wind screen and the B pillar that has supposedly helped in reducing the noise from the flexing of the B pillar. The AC knobs are much better, but there is a faint marking on the blower knob and it is difficult to know the position at night. There is no place to keep anything, not even a bottle. But I am used to the same in my Bolero. I have ordered for a central console and that should improve things. The panel gaps on the dashboard are huge and unpleasant to the eyes. I am not finicky about interiors, but this is far below the acceptance level for any category of vehicle. In my opinion a vehicle should not be allowed to leave the factory with such shoddy interiors whatever be the price. The Tata Super Ace has far better interiors.

Driving experience

The seating position is commanding and there is good view of the road ahead. However with the driver's seat pushed a little back, looking at the side is a bit of a problem as the B pillar comes in the way. I have to strain my neck at intersections. I am 5'10" and I do not push the seat all the way back. The engine is a gem and pulls neatly from 1200 rpm onward and there is negligible turbo lag. The first 3 gears are not too tall. The 5th gear can pull steadily from 50 kmph to speedo indicated 145 kmph. At 145 kmph on the speedo the GPS shows 135 kmph. There is no need to downshift frequently on the highway. One can easily drive it like an automatic on the highway. The brakes are much improved from the 2012 Thar of my friend. I had to apply panic braking only once till date as a hen suddenly came into my path. I was doing about 70 kmph and the vehicle shed speed without any drama. The ride quality has improved a bit with the 15 inch tyres and handling is acceptable.

During a recent trip I was able to keep up with bhpian Samba's petrol Etios on sweeping curves for a distance of about 20 kilometers. Samba was pretty impressed with the Thar as he is a spirited driver and did not expect the Thar would be able to keep up on those curves. However, the NVH levels are too high above 80 kmph. The wind noise can very easily become annoying and stressful. I had no plans of installing a music system so early, but the wind noise forced me to. At speedo indicated 140 kmph the noise becomes unbearable. It seems as if the entire roof is going to get torn apart. The Thar is a capable vehicle on the mountains as I found out with my friend's vehicle. The turning radius is small, the vehicle is nimble and K turns are easy on those narrow mountain roads. The front suspension is too soft for my liking and the vehicle bounces like the previous generation Scorpio. The rear leaf springs are happiest when there is load at the back. Without load the rear tends to jump like a bronco. As a result the ride quality is quite bad on rough roads. The Renault Duster will have the Thar for breakfast on such roads. A friend's Punto was able to maintain better speed on a rough patch of road and the Thar was bouncing to glory. On the open highway it can easily keep up with the hatchbacks and sedans till 120 kmph.

The auto locking hub is painful. One has to reverse a few meters after disengaging the 4WD and there is not guarantee that the hub will be unlocked. I found this out during the trip as well. I had engaged 4WD to get the vehicle on a mound for photo shoot. After that I reversed for a good 4 to 5 meters but the hub was still locked. After 3 or 4 attempts and 10 to 12 meters of reversing the hub finally got disengaged. I think the fixed flanges would be far more headache free. Bhpian Himadrimondal's Thar has fixed flanges and he is quite happy with them.

Overall Feedback

The odometer is almost touching the 2000 kilometers mark. Since my other vehicle is a Bolero I have been comparing the Thar with it. It takes some amount of time to get used to the Thar after the Bolero. The steering is super light and feels disconnected. The gear position is different. The Thar feels more nimble and obviously it is faster of the two. But the Bolero at 80 kmph feels much more stable than the Thar at the same speed. The Bolero has no rattles and squeaks even after 55000 kms on the odo but the Thar is full of it. The door handles and locks on the Bolero are of much better quality. The ride quality of the Thar is better when just two people are sitting and both are at par with 6 people on board. Other bhpians have reported that the DI engine fares better than the CRDe on the hills. I did not find much difference with my friend's Thar but then I did not encounter very steep slopes. I have to take the Thar to a few places where the Bolero has been and can comment after that. In the transport section i.e the plains, the Thar is a joy to drive. Overtaking is a breeze and does not need long term planning like that in the Bolero. After almost one month of driving the Thar it is difficult for me to choose between the two vehicles but the balance is tilted a bit towards the Bolero. My wife though feels otherwise.

Likes -

1. Looks stunning and has awesome road presence
2. Smooth and powerful engine, negligible turbo lag and can cruise at 100 + kmph all day
3. Decent handling with less body roll than other top heavy SUVs
4. Off-roading ability and go-anywhere attitude
5. Brakes have improved a lot from the previous iterations
6. AC is good though I have to check it in peak summer
7. Manual 4WD selector is supposed to be more reliable than the electronic shift.
8. Stock headlights are quite powerful

Dislikes -

1. Interior quality is pathetic, the dashboard looks like a jugaad. Panel gaps on the dashboard are inconsistent
2. Gear shift is not smooth
3. Auto locking hub is a nuisance
4. Lack of active and passive safety features
5. Excessive wind noise above 80 kmph
6. The IRVM shakes more than that on my Bolero though the engine is smoother
7. The side glasses are extremely reflective
8. Difficult to know the blower fan position at night
9. Horrible positioning of the bonnet opening lever, cannot open bonnet without opening the driver side door. Sharp edges around the lever
10. Exposed bolts and overhead beams are hazardous for the passengers
11. Very poor ergonomics. The front passenger seat cannot be inclined as the rear bench seat intrudes into that space.
12. Incompetent after sales service. You never know when somebody will put your vehicle in 4WD mode and drive merrily around.
13. Availability of spares has been a problem for some of my friends


Verdict -

This is strictly my opinion and can differ from other Thar owners. The Thar is a project vehicle that needs time, attention and money to be enjoyed properly. It is strictly a two-seater and makes sense as a third or fourth vehicle in the family. It has a lot of drawbacks as seen from the above points and it is a completely heart over mind affair to buy the Thar.


Impending question from BHPians

Why would anyone have a Bolero 4WD and a Thar 4WD in Kolkata?

Answer: Once you go 4WD there is no looking back. 4WD has allowed me to go to places that 2 WDs can only dream of and it has saved me quite a few times from painful and time consuming detours on the state highways and in the hills. So if it is an SUV it has to be 4WD and the Bolero is too precious to be sold off. So the White Tusker and The Sherpa will have to share garage space.


Technical specifications of the Thar -

Engine - NEF CRDe Turbocharged Intercolled, BSIV
Capacity - 2498 CC
Power - 105 BHP (77.23 KW) (The brochure does not mention the rpm at which peak power is attained)
Torque - 247 Nm @ 1800-2000 rpm

Transmission - 5 speed manual (NGT 530)
Transfer Case - Borg Warner manual shift, 2 speed gear reduction
HIGH 1.0:1, LOW 2.48:1

Axle front - Full floating hypoid ratio 4.3:1: Capacity: 1100 kg
Axle Rear - Semi floating hypoid ratio 4.3:1; Capacity 1700 kg
Differential - 30 spline

Hub lock - Auto

Minimum turning radius - 5.25 m

Suspension Front - Independent front suspension with Torsion and Stabiliser bar
Suspension Rear - Semi elliptical leaf springs with tension sides shot penned

Ground Clearance - 200 mm
Approach angle - 46 degrees
Departure angle - 30 degrees

Brakes front - 113 mm Disc and caliper
Brakes rear - 279 mm drums

Tyres - 235/70/R16
Wheels - 6.5J x 16

Fuel tank capacity - 60 Litres

Front track - 1445 mm
Rear track - 1346 mm
Overall length - 3920 mm
Overall width - 1710 mm
Wheelbase - 2430 mm
Overall height - 1930 mm

A few good words and pictures

We went for a 600 Km road trip and the Thar has been able to bring a grin on Rajsri's face. Such has been the effect of the performance of the Thar that she told me yesterday it would be a good idea to sell the Bolero and get a Rocky Beige Thar !!

Pictures from the recent trip.

















Thanks to bhpian Samba for the following images..





Acknowledgements:

Thanks to Rajsri without whose approval it would have been difficult to bring another Mahindra home

Thanks to the following bhpians (in no particular order) -

Shuvc for christening the Thar
Rajarshi for pointing out that the issue was with the auto locking hub
Himadrimondal for patiently answering all my queries regarding Thar
Samba for taking some stunning pics of the Thar

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the 4x4 Section. Thanks for sharing!

[Samba]

Let me be the first one to congratulate you on your latest awesome acquisition.
Thanks for such a detailed review on the machine. Seeing your and Himadri da's Thar am turning out to be a Thar fan boy! Rated 5* for this awesome report.

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

During a recent trip I was able to keep up with bhpian Samba's petrol Etios on sweeping curves for a distance of about 20 kilometers. Samba was pretty impressed with the Thar as he is a spirited driver and did not expect the Thar would be able to keep up on those curves.

To be very honest i was seeing less in the front and more in my car's rear view mirror to see the dynamics of the Thar and i must say am mighty impressed with Thar's handling added with your driving skills.

I sat in the driving seat of your Thar for a minute and i must say the seating position was addictive. After getting used to the low slung hatches and sedans with the 'in' the car feel, while seating inside the Thar i had a 'on' the car feel as if am on the top of the world ! It definitely inspires more confidence while driving. This feel is there with other Suv's too but the Thar has it own charm.

[himadrimondal]

Superb description with rocking photographs. The modifications look fantastic, specially the front bumper. White looks so cool. Congrats and many many more happy miles to come.

[dj78]

Very well compiled review Sumitro. The well analyzed details would be helpful to anyone contemplating this vehicle.

[CoolBlueBiker]

Congratulations on your new ride The mods carried on are tasteful. I especially liked the Black Alloys Goes very well with the white colour.

[psurelia]

That's a brilliant and honest review!!! Please keep the thread updated with details and pictures as your "Project Thar" progresses further. I simply loved reading it.

[humyum]

Awesome review. Had kept me glued throughout.

How is the clutch hardness btw? Does driving in the city lead to a leg ache ? Compare the Thar's clutch hardness to say a Swift Diesel, how would you rate it ? I am asking because clutch hardness is a paramount thing for me when I buy a car.

I don't know if I will ever buy a Thar but I would definitely want to get married to a girl who tells me 'I want a Thar'

[swami69]

Hi Blackpearl,

Congratulations on your "The Sherpa" and welcome to the Thar group. A great write up on arriving at the decision of buying a Thar and fantastic photos. Your Thar looks wonderful in white and black combination. Enjoy your ride.

Swami

[cityvic]

Blackpearl, congratulations on your latest purchase. Looks stunning.
Would love to have a chance to check it out whenever we meet next.

[justwheels]

A Thar is a Thar in all ways. And "Sherpa" is a nice nickname for it.

Many congratulations for the Thar, and many happy miles crunching on the beast. With a Bolero 4WD and a Thar 4X4, your garage is like "conquer all places".

A nice buying experience log and looking forward to some nice travelogues of Sherpa.

[sjcherian]

Welcome to the Thar Owner community. Nice writeup and great photos too. Cool name for the Thar as well. Liked the Alloys too.

[B O V]

Well this is the first time I've ventured into the 4x4 n offroading bit of the T-bhp forums.

Worth it.Your Thar looks absolutely stunning!I like the white and black combination you've done.Looks very neat.Also suv's/offroaders looks very nice in white.Especially with some mud splashed on

Just a suggestion,I think it'd look really cool if you de-badge it and add subtle Thar badging(in black),On the side of the hood for example.It would go well with the whole white and black.

Regards

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

One of my friends was selling of his rocky beige Thar

Did you think of buying that?

Regards
Sutripta

[aak91]

Brilliant writeup Sumitro da. Would love to check out the baby in flesh.