[GTO]

Originally Posted by FlyingSpur

Not even a BMW with BSI?

Thanks to 5 years of maintenance & repair taken care of by BMW, that's the more sensible German option. Period. But then, I've really washed my hands off brand new cars. Still not sure of how much sense a used German makes. Because if anything goes wrong, you are frequently looking at 6 figure bills.

A used LC100, perhaps. Or a nice Lexus LS.

LC100 is now too old and has started to look outdated (surprising, as the LC80 manages to look good). Landcruiser 200's already hitting the market at 45 lakhs. These are sparingly used examples . In another 2 years, expect to buy big-daddy LC200s at 30 lakhs.

Originally Posted by benzinblut

Is this a one-off case or are there more cases that are not being reported?

Refer to the thread that carboy has linked to.

[Snowman79]

have gone through this whole thread - it made for very interesting reading. i own a skoda rs which i just sold and was actually looking for a pre owned merc c or beemer 3 now.

however after going thru this whole thread i feel that it makes sense to just shell out some more money and buy a brand new toyota fortuner.. its a lovely car and after all.. its toyota!

one quick question tho. if i was gonna buy a pre owned german. which one should it be. audi a4, beemer 3 or merc c

thanks in advance guys!

[Deeps]

@ GTO, How many kms has your clocked? And approximately, how much have you spent on maintenance thus far (excluding the warranty replacements). I am keen to work out the per km cost of your car.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Snowman79

i own a skoda rs which i just sold and was actually looking for a pre owned merc c or beemer 3 now.

One word of advice : RUN

however after going thru this whole thread i feel that it makes sense to just shell out some more money and buy a brand new toyota fortuner.. its a lovely car and after all.. its toyota!

That's definitely what I would do. One heck of an SUV.

Originally Posted by Deeps

@ GTO, How many kms has your clocked?

A notch over 70,000 kms.

And approximately, how much have you spent on maintenance thus far (excluding the warranty replacements). I am keen to work out the per km cost of your car.

Back of the envelope calculations show about Rs. 3.5 lakh. Unfortunately. And that's not including a set of tyres for Rs. 36K.

[procircuit_234]

i just cant digest this.apart from money spent one should get that peace of mind.i am sure even 7lac jazz would be more reliable.are the bimmers also equally non realible?

[Sahil]

The least I say about this gen of the c-lass the better !!

Engine mounts don't last in these German, I guess because of the fuel that makes the engine less refined. Mines been changed once and I think I require a new set again at 57k kms. The car shut off with a large vibration.
Our 520d has done only 12k kms in 2 years! And that is a lot more refined to drive and no vibration on shutdown either.

You haven't had to replace your battery yet? The bmws drain battery quickly, the 525d is on it's second or third battery. The 520dhad a battery replacement issue which the Pune dealer refuse to cover under warranty but Navnit Mumbai was helpful enough to do it. Only downside is BMW take 2-3 days to respond to such warranty claims!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by procircuit_234

i just cant digest this.apart from money spent one should get that peace of mind.

With the complicated Germans, peace of the mind only lasts when they are less than 3 years old. The frequent failures are bad enough; what makes it worse is the exorbitant pricing of each part.

i am sure even 7lac jazz would be more reliable

Why go till the Jazz? Humble Altos are known to serve reliably uptil the 1,00,000 km mark (if not more).

This is my biggest grouse with the Germans : The most basic purpose of a car is to take it's occupants from pt. A to pt. B. What's the point of gizmos, plush leather seats and badge value if a car fails on its primary purpose of existence?

Originally Posted by Sahil

Mines been changed once and I think I require a new set again at 57k kms.

The 525?

You haven't had to replace your battery yet?

Yes, once. IIRC, it was at the 4 year mark.

[dipen]

@GTO
How was the Aircon issue sorted ? How much it left you poorer by.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by GTO

The 525?

Yes. The 520d is a low runner, 500km a month avg still feels brand new.

The 525d might need a set of new tyres by this monsoon, the traction control light's been going off a bit too often for my liking. How long have your tires lasted? This will be my third set !

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by GTO

With the complicated Germans, peace of the mind only lasts when they are less than 3 years old. The frequent failures are bad enough; what makes it worse is the exorbitant pricing of each part.

I m surprised Rush, thoroughly.
While people crib about these German cars failing ever so frequently and worse, unpredictably in India, countries like Singapore, Germany use decades old Mercs and Skodas as cabs, successfully.

Where is the gap? ASCs or fuel? It can't be the roads and users for sure.

Originally Posted by GTO

This is my biggest grouse with the Germans : The most basic purpose of a car is to take it's occupants from pt. A to pt. B. What's the point of gizmos, plush leather seats and badge value if a car fails on its primary purpose of existence?

When they can make luxurious interiors and permanently rattle free vehicles, are they finding it so tough to make reliable engines? Something is not right here.

[Abhi_Automobile]

With the complicated Germans, peace of the mind only lasts when they are less than 3 years old. The frequent failures are bad enough; what makes it worse is the exorbitant pricing of each part.

@ GTO

Are you talking only about the 'Holy Trinity' or does that include VW as well? VW, unlike the other three, is a mass market brand and cannot have such high upkeep costs.

I am considering the upcoming new Jetta as my next car in 6-8 months' time. After reading this, I have started wondering if maintaining that could also turn out to be nightmare. I plan to retain my humble Swift Vxi in that case.

However, if you think that maintaining the new Jetta will also be 'quite expensive', then my plans may completely change. I may get a POLO for my wifey (as replacement of Swift) and get a pre-owned CIVIC for myself.

I know that VW is relatively new to India and their upkeep costs is still an unknown territory. I have no issues with 'higher than Jap' costs at all but if the bills run into multiple thousands each time, then it WILL be an issue. Expecting prompt reply.

[guha_2001]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

While people crib about these German cars failing ever so frequently and worse, unpredictably in India, countries like Singapore, Germany use decades old Mercs and Skodas as cabs, successfully.

Where is the gap? ASCs or fuel? It can't be the roads and users for sure.

When they can make luxurious interiors and permanently rattle free vehicles, are they finding it so tough to make reliable engines? Something is not right here.

Mercedes has a poor reputation for reliability abroad as attested by numerous satisfaction surveys. And servicing is horrendously expensive abroad, many cars end up in non authorized service centers once the warranty is over, these provide the same level of service at a fraction of the price

The European taxis used are typically lower spec variants with less gizmos and electronics. Typically 2-3 drivers take shifts driving the same car and end up sharing the maintenance

The fancy electronics and sensitive power train have a higher failure rate in our hot, humid, dusty conditions with poor fuel

[Raosaheb Desai]

Yes, Mostly all European cars are not designed for Indian roads as well as Indian weather conditions. German cars including vw are over engineered (good example is geared opening for glow box in Jetta)
They usually provide gizmos which are useless in daily driving. Features like Auto-wipers, auto-headlights are of no practical use and give lot of trouble to fix these whenever there is a failure of such systems.
Technology-wise Japanese are much ahead comparing Europeans but lacks pro-marketing attitude.
The user friendly nature and unmatched reliability of Japanese cars could have thrown away some of the heavyweights of Germany only if they had a right marketing strategy for India.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by dipen

@GTO
How was the Aircon issue sorted ? How much it left you poorer by.

Car is currently at Four Seasons for a new compressor + some related parts. Looking at about 70K for the job. Note that this will be the 3rd compressor in 6 years.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

countries like Singapore, Germany use decades old Mercs and Skodas as cabs, successfully.

The ol' Mercs are known workhorses. The new ones are problematic everywhere, whether in Europe or N/America.

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

Are you talking only about the 'Holy Trinity' or does that include VW as well?

VW also has a rather poor reliability rating worldwide. You want reliability, buy Japanese or Korean.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I m surprised Rush, thoroughly.
While people crib about these German cars failing ever so frequently and worse, unpredictably in India, countries like Singapore, Germany use decades old Mercs and Skodas as cabs, successfully.

That is the catch. A couple of decades ago the Mercedes were superbly over engineered and a lot of taxis are that old. There is quite a demand for these older models in India still. Once electronics and gizmos started coming, the Germans faced their "Waterloo".

No doubt the modern German cars are a treat to drive, extremely safe and comfortable, but that has been achieved at the expense of reliability (with a capital R). I hope that they learn from Japanese and ultimately catch up in the reliability game.

I think that one of the problems is that these cars are engineered just right to reduce costs to compete with Japs, and like aircraft require periodic replacements before they fail. After all it is not a rocket science to Design & Manufacture a long lasting AC system. If Japs can do it so can the Germans. Else how can a 20 year old Mercedes be so reliable and a two year old one not.

Indian conditions are not unique and you will find similar or worst weather, fuel and roads in many parts of the world, but still the Japs are reliable there and Germans not.