[Entsurgeon]

Originally Posted by GTO

No one will maintain 20-year old BMWs of the current era as people do the far simpler W124. These cars are way too complex and IMHO, not designed to be run for over 15 years. The electronics & complexity mean huge repair bills that will far exceed the value of the car by the time it is 13 - 15 years old. Just see how many W220 S-Class are lying abandoned all around India. You can buy them for as little as 1.5 - 2 lakhs . No one will touch it with a barge pole.

Most electronics are generic. With 3d printing, i am sure it wont be tough for small players to keep spinning off low volume parts. It wont be far fetched for local guys to get a blank ecu and program for your car. There once was a time when it wasn't possible to repair mobile phones locally.

Imho, being electronics laden wont be much hinderance to maintain such cars. What i see as a hurdle is the overall mentality these days to create products with a life span in sight that makes their body structures prone to getting shambled in a decade and half. Plus, there aren't many cars with potential to become modern classic.

[ashishkashyap]

Just like GTO, trying to move to tubeless tyres but with the similar configuration. 275-40-R18 and 245-45-R18. Unable to locate tyres in Delhi NCR (Dunlop/ Michellin/ Pirelli). I am being told imports are banned and none of these are available. Anyone has contacts with a dealer or source with this specs?

[harish]

Hello GTO,
Big fan of your F10 thread. I'm looking at a 2017 G30 530d M-Sport with 41.8k KMS, It's been maintained very well and most of them are highway miles and car has brand new tyres. It is being quoted about half price than new. (42L) What is the car worth picking up for? Is there something I should look out for?

I intend to keep it for about 4-5 years or more if it is sound reliability wise, how reliable are these cars? My annual running is about 8-10k KMs.

I will be sure to get the car inspected by BMW just for my peace of mind incase I decide on it. This is the only used G30 530d available in my city.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by harish

I'm looking at a 2017 G30 530d M-Sport with 41.8k KMS

It's a phenomenal sedan, go for it. Just be sure to get all the checks & balances done which are highlighted in our used car buying article (ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India).

Reliability is top notch, although you should expect to spend an average of 1 - 1.5 lakhs / year on upkeep. Some years, it will be lower than this amount, some years it will be higher. But I've found 1 - 1.5 lakhs to be a fair range to be prepared for. A good set of tubeless tyres alone will cost you 70,000 and with your running, you will need them every 2.5 years.

[faithless_1984]

Hello GTO, a close friend of mine was looking for a luxury car and we stumbled upon a pre owned 530D so i immediately thought about this thread. Would love to get your inputs.

This is the car -

https://www.carwale.com/used/cars-in...2017-D2226187/

Is it a good example ?

The car will mostly be used on weekends and for short highway trips once or twice a year. We are going to see the car tomorrow, will keep in mind all the things to check as mentioned on the forum. Will also get it reviewed by a BMW workshop.
I told him about the maintenance cost and he is ok with it. Please share your thoughts.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by faithless_1984

Is it a good example ?

Looks good from the pictures, man. KM reading is higher than my personal cap of 40,000 - 50,000 km though. But if someone wants an F10, they will have to be open to higher km because its a long discontinued model.

First, see if you can agree on a price with the seller. 26 big ones sounds like a lot for a car that will soon be 5 years old and has such high running. If there is mutual agreement, then carry out all the steps from our used car buying guide, including a proper PPI, checks with the insurance company etc.

[faithless_1984]

Originally Posted by GTO

KM reading is higher than my personal cap of 40,000 - 50,000 km though.

Thanks for the reply ! We went to see the car today and it was a big disappointment. The reading was in Miles ! The actual running is 1L+ kms.
When i confronted the dealer he blamed it on his staff that they forgot to mention this to us when we called them.
We are now looking for lesser run/newer 3 series variants.
No other decent 530D available in Delhi/Ncr right now in our price range unfortunately.

[ashishkashyap]

Unable to find the Tyre configuration of 275-40-R-18 and 245-45-R-18 for my 530D F10 in tubeless. (Delhi NCR/ Gurgaon). Any leads for a reliable dealer for the same?

[Iyencar]

Originally Posted by faithless_1984

Thanks for the reply ! We went to see the car today and it was a big disappointment. The reading was in Miles !

Should have offered to pay in Pakistani rupees then.
OT why’s your friend planning to get a 10 yr old diesel in Delhi?! Is he registering it somewhere else?

[GTO]

Major work going on in my building, so had to park the cars outside. They say "if you don't look back at your car after parking, you bought the wrong car". Am looking...and how . A classy, proportionate, timeless design. Beast is going to turn 8 this year.

Originally Posted by ashishkashyap

Unable to find the Tyre configuration of 275-40-R-18 and 245-45-R-18 for my 530D F10 in tubeless. (Delhi NCR/ Gurgaon).

Major shortages right now. My suggestion:

1. Terrible supply issues of import tyres in the market. You'll have to make a lot of calls. Look in the Team-BHP Directory & call big dealers from other cities. Tyre Professionals run by BHPian Nikhilb2008, Saifee Tyres in Bombay & more.

2. If your tyres have gone bald, then go for runflats for this change, and tubeless at the next (whenever supplies resume).

[GTO]

On the way back from Pawna:


As she is approaching the 8th year, some parts are inevitably needing replacement. The reliability so far has been stellar, so I'm fully prepared for a part replacement (or two) each year, as I intend to keep her for a while. The original plan was to drive the car until it’s 10 years old, but I’m enjoying it so much + she is aging so well that I think I’ll keep her till she is 13 or 14 years old – related thread. Basically, another 4 - 5 years.

Needed two replacements:

- A/c compressor.

- Remember the ABS warning light I reported earlier? Wasn't a sensor. The full ABS / Hydro Unit DSC needed to be replaced. There are repair kits available abroad (link), but not in India as its a very rare failure. I sourced a used one from Akshay @ Redline Autohaus. New one was 2.5 lakhs, while this one was about 65000. Don’t know what it is with me & ABS / ESP units. The one in my Civic also failed (I’d gotten a used one then too for 12k) and so it had in my C220 too. That’s 3 out of the last 4 ABS cars I’ve owned!

Everything came up to about Rs 1.3 lakhs.

[GTO]

Responding to a PM here. As we've always said, a PM helps one person while a public post helps thousands of readers (actually, lakhs of readers if its a popular thread).

In the 6 years that I've owned the car, the total service + maintenance + repairs cost has been approximately 5.47 lakhs. Or Rs. 91000 a year. That fits in well with the range I have often mentioned = you must budget for an average of 1 - 1.5 lakhs per annum as maintenance costs for a German luxury car. Going forward, I expect this to increase to 1.5 - 2 lakhs a year (averaged) as the car turns 10, more parts will need replacement and I don't have the extended warranty coverage I did till 2019.

Do note that the above figure does NOT include the cost of insurance (about 60k a year currently for zero-dep), modifications (e.g. remap) or tyres. Tyres are a big one because they last only 20000 - 25000 km (runflats) or 25000 - 30000 km (tubeless). I have now switched to tubeless tyres which were about 70k for a full set.

The cost above also does NOT include the 1.96 lakhs I paid for the 6-year extended warranty. The extended warranty took care of a couple of expensive things (water leakage, new AGM battery, broken sunvisor, door handles gone bad).

The cost above might increase for you as my running is lower than usual. I work from home, own 3 other cars and have a newly launched test-drive car almost every weekend (this week, I'm driving the new Fortuner + M340i). Hence, my car is used only at nights, weekends, leisure drives and our road-trip holidays. She has done just 45,000 km which is low for a 2013 car.

You can now buy a good F10 or an E-Class of similar vintage for the price of a new Hyundai Creta. But it is important to understand there is no such thing as a cheap German luxury car. They are expensive to own. The upkeep costs will be in line with any 60 - 80 lakh rupee car.

[BackInTheFold]

Originally Posted by GTO

You can now buy a good F10 or an E-Class of similar vintage for the price of a new Hyundai Creta. But it is important to understand there is no such thing as a cheap German luxury car. They are expensive to own. The upkeep costs will be in line with any 60 - 80 lakh rupee car.

Thanks for sharing.
I'll risk restating a maxim that has probably been stated already:
Knowing the provenance of a used German is essential when you buy one. A car could have low mileage, but have niggles associated with infrequent utilisation and/or indifferent maintenance. If you can find a well-maintained sample (from a known seller or a thoroughly evaluated one from an unknown seller), buying a used German is not as big a roll of the dice. As GTO points out, one just has to make provisions to keep it ticking over in good shape.
Now if I could only convince my wife, who is sentimental about buying new cars always, about the above logic I'd be driving an M or AMG . To give her credit though, she likes retaining cars for 10+ years after we buy them new. Oh well!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

If you can find a well-maintained sample (from a known seller or a thoroughly evaluated one from an unknown seller), buying a used German is not as big a roll of the dice. As GTO points out, one just has to make provisions to keep it ticking over in good shape.

My car has only gone to the best shops and there's been no compromise on quality. Reason for the post was, you buy a new 20 - 25 lakh car, and your upkeep costs for the first 5 - 6 years of extended warranty period will probably just average to Rs. 25,000 / year. On the other hand, get a used German like this for the same money and you're looking at:

- 1.5 lakh / year in upkeep (averaged) for an out-of-warranty 5 - 6+ year old car. Many people are asking about owning used F10s with lapsed warranties and its important to understand what you're getting into. Some 6+ year old Germans could also average 2 lakhs / year if they suffer poor reliability

- 60 - 70k in insurance costs

- 20k (driving 10,000 km a year) or 30k (driving 15,000 km a year) a year in tyre costs alone for the 6-cylinder cars with staggered setups

- God help you if you damage your car because zero-depreciation policies become rare as the car ages

That's 2.5 lakhs a year or 10 - 20% of the cost of a used 5-Series / E-Class. And we're not even getting into catastrophic failures like this one (My BMW 530d requires an engine rebuild).

There is a reason why these high-end cars depreciate the way they do. Frankly, I don't have the risk appetite to buy a used German luxury car without extended warranty coverage.

[Axe77]

Love the last few posts above and fully agree with all of them.

As someone who owns a German in its 6th year (my 2015 MY 3 GT), here are my two cents on long term ownership.

Let’s say I budget 1.25L a year for upkeep (its probably on the generous side actually, might be much lower). I am not counting insurance since that is routine and actually lower than for a new car. One should deduct 25 - 40k towards service, which one would pay even for a new car.

If I were to sell my car and buy a new one, just the EMI alone would account for 50k a month for a comparable vehicle. Which means in about 2-3 months worth of EMI I have already drained through my annual cost of keeping a car from the 6th - 10th year mark.

This is where well engineered German cars “that are reliable” make sense to own for a long period of time, the test to my mind being:

1. Does the car feel tight and nice to drive even in the 6 - 10 year period.
2. Is the car largely reliable. I.e. it does not throw up crazy issues without warning as a routine issue.
3. To the extent it has periodic expensive maintenance as a routine matter, are parts available quickly and is the turn around time quick - i.e. the car does not spend protracted time in the garage for routine maintenance or otherwise.

If the answer to all of the above is YES, then continued long term ownership makes a heck load of sense. My 5-1/2 years of owning the 3 GT so far give me a lot of comfort on all of the above. I am not sure I can say the same about other premium brands like VAG and upwards (only because I have not experience them first hand) but the above factors give me the confidence to keep my own car at least for a prolonged period.

It has also allowed me to refresh the car given that its out of warranty. So it has an M Sports upgraded steering for a while now and literally the week it exited the 5th year of warranty, I remapped it from a reliable source to about 225 BHP. So I am now enjoying my diesel car which runs smoother (post remap), faster, remains as tight (literally) mechanically as it felt in the first year and gives me an almost embarrassing 14.5 kmpl efficiency on a mixed city/highway cycle (my mum’s automatic i10 gives single digit economy of petrol at the best of times in the city). Honestly while I would love owning a 6 cylinder diesel, the economics of continuing to make the most of this car are simply unbeatable.

Sure, give it another year or so and I would definitely consider adding a 2nd car to my stable. But this car honestly is checking all the boxes happily for me and fingers crossed will continue to do so for the next 4 - 5 years.