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Old 9th October 2018, 15:44   #481
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

I had taken the car to Maruti today to check brake switch. The error code was in history and they cleared it. It did not come again during road test. SA told me that it would be replaced if error comes again.

Key fob battery low warning was coming intermittently on MID. SA replaced the battery (Rs. 91). I also got MGA Micro fibre clothes and Ecstsar interior cleaner (made by Liqui Moly). Both the products are decent and priced well.
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181009wa0018.jpg
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181009wa0021.jpg
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My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181009wa0020.jpg  


Last edited by Dr.Naren : 9th October 2018 at 15:46.
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Old 28th October 2018, 08:04   #482
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Love from Japan : Dixcel Slotted Rotors + Extra Speed Pads
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181028wa0024.jpg
Stay Tuned
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Old 7th November 2018, 22:40   #483
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Dixcel SD Slotted Rotors :

Claims :

Quote:
Simulated testing of both the SD and PD discs in the same conditions show a increase of brake performance by up to 20%.

With a 20% increase in brake performance, the driver can drive with more comfort and safety.

After careful consideration of various factors such as pad wear, noise level, and gas ventilation, 6 slots was adopted as a standard for SD brake discs.

The best width, angle, and depth of the slots were chosen using the data from various races and road tests.

For the 6 slot brake discs, reverse rotation (slots pointing forward) is recommended for a better brake performance.

By offsetting the slots on the inner and outer side of the disc, an improvement in brake modulation was achieved.
http://www.dixcel.co.jp/en/rotor/rotor_sd.html

Pics!!
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0071.jpg
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0049.jpg
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0046.jpg
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0048.jpg
For those who understand Japanese
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0076.jpg
Rotors to be installed in reverse rotation for better braking performance. Yes, it would take a minor hit on life of pads. Quality looks top notch.

Dixcel Extra Speed Pads

Claims :

Quote:
Made for aggressive driving on the street and highway with better brake performance

High fade resistance makes for stable braking performance even during aggressive driving.

High level of brake control making it ideal for drifting.

Helps for a longer disc life.

The friction surface of the brake pads are scorched to improve the bedding-in process.

Non-Asbestos, non-Steel making it environmentally friendly.

Mechanical brake pad sensors are installed (Only for models which originally come with sensors)
http://www.dixcel.co.jp/en/pad/pad_es.html

Pics!!
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0073.jpg
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181107wa0074.jpg
These are entry level performance pads from Dixcel which are safe on rotors. Few S-Cross owners are already using them and happy with the performance. Brake fade is much lesser than OE pads.

Pricing

SD Slotted Rotors : 33k
Extra speed pads : 7500

Pricing is inclusive of GST and shipping.

Seller :

AM Racing
https://www.facebook.com/amracing.in/

Feedback :

After driving 1000 KM's
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Old 10th November 2018, 18:46   #484
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Installation of Dixcel SD Rotors and Extra Speed Pads

I got it done at local garage . But, I suffered the famous issue of wheels getting tight and not moving freely. This happens if Caliper Piston is not pushed in fully. Took the car to Mahindra First Choice and got it fixed.

OE Setup
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181109wa0002.jpg
I had installed new OE discs and pads 7500 KM's back. Pads had more than 75 percent life thanks to the change in my driving style .

Dixcel Rotors and Pads installed
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181109wa0006.jpg
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img20181109wa0011.jpg
Rotors were installed in reverse rotation as per Dixcel recommendation. I will write about the brake performance after bedding in period.
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Old 13th November 2018, 14:00   #485
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Observations after Bedding in period :

I was disappointed initially as there was no difference at all compare to stock setup. But, everything changed after bedding in period.

1. Initial bite is much better than stock setup.

2. Brake fade is ages ahead of stock brakes. The cars stops pretty well with back to back braking.

3. Braking at high speed has also impoved very much.

I have spent close to 50k on brakes, that's the most expensive mod on my car now. The car is running with

1. Dixcel Slotted SD Front Rotors
2. Dixcel Extra Speed Front Pads
3. Dixcel Extra Cruise Rear Pads

Condition of front rotors after bedding in period
My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!-img_20181113_134701.jpg
I need to change tyres and install BMC DIA in next couple of weeks. Bigger turbo and intercooler would be the final mod , hoping to hit 200 HP at crank..The brakes are ready now .

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 13th November 2018 at 14:04.
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Old 15th November 2018, 20:09   #486
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Dixcel brake setup has got more better now. The car sheds speeds effortlessly. Brake fade is near to Zero too. Initial bite is strong and progressive which inspires confidence. The culprit are the old Falken tyres now. I am planning to go with Continental MC5 in stock size.

The car has crossed 43000 Kms now .
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Old 19th November 2018, 20:08   #487
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Bigger turbo and intercooler would be the final mod , hoping to hit 200 HP at crank..The brakes are ready now .
You may want to consider upgrading those rear brakes (pads, rotors) as well for 200 BHP. Makes a difference. Unless you want the car to nose dive every time you hit the brakes hard.
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Old 19th November 2018, 20:17   #488
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You may want to consider upgrading those rear brakes (pads, rotors) as well for 200 BHP. Makes a difference. Unless you want the car to nose dive every time you hit the brakes hard.
I am not sure how having better brakes at the rear will prevent car from nosediving on heavy braking. For a car like the S-Cross, the rear axle is hardly loaded, and during hard deceleration the weight shifts further to the front and it will be the front axle which will do most of the braking. In this event even if you have good brakes at the back the ABS will cut pressure since the rear will start skidding easily. Hence, what will be more of a concern will be the front suspension giving up prematurely which will command for an upgrade This unless Naren decides to put sand bags in the boot and wants to make use of the full potential of the rear brakes. That time upgrading the rear brakes will make sense

Last edited by audioholic : 19th November 2018 at 20:18.
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Old 19th November 2018, 20:17   #489
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You may want to consider upgrading those rear brakes (pads, rotors) as well for 200 BHP. Makes a difference. Unless you want the car to nose dive every time you hit the brakes hard.
Rear pads are already upgraded with Dixcel Extra Cruise type .

Dixcel has also confirmed about availability of slotted rotors for rear.

Personally I don't see a need to upgrade even after more power. The present setup is too good.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 19th November 2018 at 20:18.
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Old 20th November 2018, 08:58   #490
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
This unless Naren decides to put sand bags in the boot and wants to make use of the full potential of the rear brakes. That time upgrading the rear brakes will make sense
Brake systems designs are done with a fully loaded car for obvious reasons. I think it's a fallacy to assume there won't be any passenger or luggage in the back seats or boot.

As for the effects of the front end diving when braking hard I speak from experience in 2 of my cars - the Palio 1.6 (discs + drums setup) which loves to pitch and the Altis (4 wheel disc brakes) which has its brake biasing set to the rear which in turn wears out rear brake pads in 20-25K km even with careful driving. The front pads easily last over 2x that mileage. And the pitching is noticeably less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Rear pads are already upgraded with Dixcel Extra Cruise type Dixcel has also confirmed about availability of slotted rotors for rear. Personally I don't see a need to upgrade even after more power. The present setup is too good.
Well, since you have spent substantial sums of money on your car's mods and brakes, an upgraded rear setup won't hurt for sure. As mentioned elsewhere on T-BHP I'm am equally or more impressed by the 100-0 than the 0-100 timings. My life depends on the former.

Anyways, some additional reading for your consideration:

a) Brake Balancing

b) Big brake kits

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th November 2018 at 09:01.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:02   #491
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Brake systems designs are done with a fully loaded car for obvious reasons. I think it's a fallacy to assume there won't be any passenger or luggage in the back seats or boot.

As for the effects of the front end diving when braking hard I speak from experience in 2 of my cars - the Palio 1.6 (discs + drums setup) which loves to pitch and the Altis (4 wheel disc brakes) which has its brake biasing set to the rear which in turn wears out rear brake pads in 20-25K km even with careful driving. The front pads easily last over 2x that mileage. And the pitching is noticeably less.



Well, since you have spent substantial sums of money on your car's mods and brakes, an upgraded rear setup won't hurt for sure. As mentioned elsewhere on T-BHP I'm am equally or more impressed by the 100-0 than the 0-100 timings. My life depends on the former.

Anyways, some additional reading for your consideration:

a) Brake Balancing

b) Big brake kits
The first article was very informative, thanks.

Now i am able to co-relate why I experienced better braking stability when I changed the all brake pads to Mintex than compared to the front only swap which resulted in a tail slide under rapid deceleration.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:10   #492
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Brake systems designs are done with a fully loaded car for obvious reasons. I think it's a fallacy to assume there won't be any passenger or luggage in the back seats or boot.
Isn't a load sensing valve part of the brake system which change rear brake pressure according to load on rear axle? Some vehicles have this in addition to proportioning valve.

I think the new ABS with EBD brake systems can compensate for rear axle loads without having to use a load sensing valve. The previous generation non ABS Innova have load sensing valve attached to its rear axle and the chassis; the new Crystas doesn't have one. I'm thinking the SCross also has one which is built into the ABS/EBD braking system.

The load sensing valve is sensitive to ride height and its a good thing that its gone otherwise when lowering or raising suspension would directly affect brake force distribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
As for the effects of the front end diving when braking hard I speak from experience in 2 of my cars - the Palio 1.6 (discs + drums setup) which loves to pitch and the Altis (4 wheel disc brakes) which has its brake biasing set to the rear which in turn wears out rear brake pads in 20-25K km even with careful driving. The front pads easily last over 2x that mileage. And the pitching is noticeably less.
It is partly because of how the brake electronics is programmed to bite. Some cars have a dive control feature to improve passenger comfort. Two ways to achieve this; 1) active suspension and 2) indirect method is making the rear bite stronger. The latter is an indirect method and easily implemented on mainstream vehicles and that is one of the reasons the rear pads wear out faster or as fast as the front pads.

On cars without pitching control/dive control using brakes the rear pads will last more than the front.

And on emergency braking situations at higher speeds the pitching control algorithm will be bypassed (since dive control won't be a priority) and the front will haul in the car with the rear keeping the vehicle in line.

Last edited by Sankar : 20th November 2018 at 10:26.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:26   #493
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Isn't a load sensing valve part of the brake system which change rear brake pressure according to load on rear axle? Some vehicles have this in addition to proportioning valve.

I think the new ABS with EBD brake systems can compensate for rear axle loads without having to use a load sensing valve. The previous generation non ABS Innova have load sensing valve attached to its rear axle and the chassis; the new Crystas doesn't have one. I'm thinking the SCross also has one which is built into the ABS/EBD braking system.

The load sensing valve is sensitive to ride height and its a good thing that its gone otherwise when lowering or raising suspension would directly affect brake force distribution.
Yea, the load sensing activity is taken care by the EBD in modern brake systems
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Old 20th November 2018, 11:10   #494
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Isn't a load sensing valve part of the brake system which change rear brake pressure according to load on rear axle? Some vehicles have this in addition to proportioning valve.
Not sure which cars have this method but yes it's possible.

Quote:
I think the new ABS with EBD brake systems can compensate for rear axle loads without having to use a load sensing valve. The previous generation non ABS Innova have load sensing valve attached to its rear axle and the chassis; the new Crystas doesn't have one. I'm thinking the SCross also has one which is built into the ABS/EBD braking system.
Yes the ABS/EBD does just that and the reason for the valve is the drum/disc setup. Thing is, as far as I am concerned, 4 brakes calipers/drums work as a team and beyond a certain upgrade in engine output it makes sense also upgrade the rear brake performance. Mainly for reducing stopping distance but anti dive and as @Sagarpadaki rightly said to prevent the tail sliding.

I think the links I shared have content far better articulated by experts on why it's advisable to upgrade both rear and front brakes.

Quote:
The load sensing valve is sensitive to ride height and its a good thing that its gone otherwise when lowering or raising suspension would directly affect brake force distribution.
Luxury European sedans and other high end vehicles yes for sure but do run-of-the-mill Jap commuter cars like ours have these sensors? Doubt it.

Quote:
It is partly because of how the brake electronics is programmed to bite. Some cars have a dive control feature to improve passenger comfort. Two ways to achieve this; 1) active suspension and 2) indirect method is making the rear bite stronger. The latter is an indirect method and easily implemented on mainstream vehicles and that is one of the reasons the rear pads wear out faster or as fast as the front pads.
Given my car is only a commuter I'd bet it's the indirect method of control combined with Bosch's ABS/EBD braking system. I'd hate to imagine what would happen to my car's brakes had I modded the car to generate 200+ BHP. Err..no thanks. I'll buy an Octavia vRS instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Yea, the load sensing activity is taken care by the EBD in modern brake systems
+1
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Old 20th November 2018, 11:27   #495
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Default re: My Maruti S-Cross 1.6L Alpha : Stage 3 Wolf (~200 HP / 420 NM). EDIT : 70,000 km up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Not sure which cars have this method but yes it's possible.
Not many these are mechanical valves. ABS EBD and other tech have replaced these mostly.

Quote:
I think the links I shared have content far better articulated by experts on why it's advisable to upgrade both rear and front brakes.
Everybody on the internet is an expert on all things nowadays. Some have their own websites some posts in forums like you me and everybody else here :-)

Quote:
Luxury European sedans and other high end vehicles yes for sure but do run-of-the-mill Jap commuter cars like ours have these sensors? Doubt it.
No they have better tech, only run off the mill boring cars have low tech stuff like load sensing mechanical valves nowadays.

Quote:
Given my car is only a commuter I'd bet it's the indirect method of control combined with Bosch's ABS/EBD braking system. I'd hate to imagine what would happen to my car's brakes had I modded the car to generate 200+ BHP. Err..no thanks. I'll buy an Octavia vRS instead.
Nothing will happen to your brakes if you mod it to 200+BHP. Only when you need them to stop you may find it a bit lacking. Just like some cars which come with disapointing OE brakes. Old Ford Ikon comes to mind.

Last edited by navin : 20th November 2018 at 13:33. Reason: fixed quote
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