[Axe77]

Wow. So basically they launched it in CKD presumably to make it more price competitor and then increased prices shortly after. Bit of a bummer that - isnt it?

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Wow. So basically they launched it in CKD presumably to make it more price competitor and then increased prices shortly after. Bit of a bummer that - isnt it?

The ES CKD currently retails for 66.5-72.5 on road mumbai individual.

Pricing in my opinion is more or less in line with rivals, except that Toyota/Lexus isn't a big believer in discounts (barring the odd instance like the previous gen ES fire sale before the launch of the new gen).

This lack of discounts makes the ES pricier than vehicles like the E LWB, 6GT, etc. which are arguably half a segment up.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Wow. So basically they launched it in CKD presumably to make it more price competitor and then increased prices shortly after. Bit of a bummer that - isnt it?

The ES is the highest selling Lexus model in India. So they localised it by CKD kits to get some taxation benefit but that benefit has been entirely consumed by Toyota India continuing their belief that they are a gift to Indians and should tax Indians heavily for giving us their products.

I think the ES is better than E / 5 and A6 but it should not cost more than 60-64 on road Mumbai. New E is costing 83 on road Mumbai but Mercedes discounts it and it is also overpriced. Toyota being Toyota just is following Germans to maximise their profits which should not be the business strategy in my opinion.

[V.Narayan]

Bagheera, my panther, completes 4 years in a fortnight. This last one year, thanks to the lock down etc. has seen limited driving but I expect the mile munching will pick up. Only today she did ~140 kms on top of ~110 kms yesterday and another ~80 kms scheduled for tomorrow. I'll be posting a four year experience note with pictures in early April.

I usually keep my cars for a 7 to 10 year period. But this car I am sentimentally attached to for some very personal reasons and am very seriously thinking of holding on to it for the full 20-years, till 2037, that the Govt. now permits and who knows maybe longer if I'm still around.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Bagheera, my panther, completes 4 years in a fortnight...

Fantastic car, and will probably (definitely?) outlast you with the sort of care it's getting.

As to Toyota's pricing shenanigans, if paying just the same, one's better off having gotten the early-bird CBU import.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Bagheera, my panther, completes 4 years.

Congratulations Sir. It doesnt really look 4 forget even 1 from this picture.

I think in 20 years of ownership youll do some 3 lac kms. which will be a case study in lexus reliability for Lexus on Indian roads.

[Puneet0051]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Bagheera, my panther, completes 4 years in a fortnight.

am very seriously thinking of holding on to it for the full 20-years, till 2037

That says a lot about the car and more than that your love and passion . All the best Mr Narayan. I wish I could say that about my car ... Germans are notorious for long dubious ownerships. Fingers crossed

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Fantastic car, and will probably (definitely?) outlast you with the sort of care it's getting.

Originally Posted by M00M

Congratulations Sir. It doesnt really look 4 forget even 1 from this picture.
I think in 20 years of ownership youll do some 3 lac kms. which will be a case study in lexus reliability for Lexus on Indian roads.

Originally Posted by Puneet0051

That says a lot about the car and more than that your love and passion . All the best Mr Narayan. I wish I could say that about my car ... Germans are notorious for long dubious ownerships. Fingers crossed

Thank you, Gentlemen, for your kind words and good wishes. You will be bored with this ownership thread going on and on and on.....I've written to Toyota/ Lexus Japan and informed them of my decision and stated that as this was the first Lexus they delivered in Delhi-NCR/North India {maybe India, but I have no proof of that}, after opening shop in India in April 2017, they have a duty of care to support my ambition. One great thing being my age is that folks tolerate a degree of idiosyncrasy and obtuse demands

[kapi]

So I need some advice.

I was planning on getting a new camry hybrid soon, but they are not making any deliveries till September this year.

My choices are now a lightly used previous gen camry hybrid which would be roughly in the budget of 20L for a 2017 model year.

OR

There is an ES300h 2017 available as well (35k done) available for roughly 33-34.

Is it worth stretching that extra 13L for the lexus, when they are identical cars underneath?

Advice would be welcome.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by kapi

I was planning on getting a new camry hybrid soon, but they are not making any deliveries till September this year. My choices are now a lightly used previous gen camry hybrid which would be roughly in the budget of 20L for a 2017 model year.

OR

There is an ES300h 2017 available as well (35k done) available for roughly 33-34. Is it worth stretching that extra 13L for the lexus, when they are identical cars underneath?

I do not know how true it is that a Camry and a Lexus are the same underneath. Maybe they are maybe they are not. I don't have real data as opposed to opinions on the net. In terms of driving experience you should test both out thoroughly to determine what suits your style and preferences. In terms of ride quality the Lexus is better than the 2017 model Camry. How much better is hard to say. In terms of reliability of the hybrid battery and mechanism both are equally good. In terms of leather, wood paneling and interiors I believe the Lexus, understandably is a notch better. In terms of ASS, Toyota is very good, Lexus is superlative.

If you get a 2020 Camry {and are okay with its frontis piece} then that subject to price could be a very attractive choice.

I own the 2017 Lexus ES300h and in my ex-business we had a 2006 Camry and by B-i-L has the 2020 Camry which also I have driven. My observations are based on these three cars.

[kapi]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

In terms of ride quality the Lexus is better than the 2017 model Camry. How much better is hard to say. In terms of reliability of the hybrid battery and mechanism both are equally good. In terms of leather, wood paneling and interiors I believe the Lexus, understandably is a notch better. In terms of ASS, Toyota is very good, Lexus is superlative.

If you get a 2020 Camry {and are okay with its frontis piece} then that subject to price could be a very attractive choice.

I would agree that the interior quality, sound insulation the lexus is a notch above the camry.

I didn't really feel that much of a difference between the ride quality to be honest. They both use the same tyres (Yoko DB) and the difference in RQ may have been very very marginal.

The 2020 camry is 45L on road new! That's why I thought why not go the pre-owned route and save quite a bit!

[androdev]

Originally Posted by kapi

So I need some advice.

I was planning on getting a new camry hybrid soon, but they are not making any deliveries till September this year.

My choices are now a lightly used previous gen camry hybrid which would be roughly in the budget of 20L for a 2017 model year.

OR

There is an ES300h 2017 available as well (35k done) available for roughly 33-34.

Is it worth stretching that extra 13L for the lexus, when they are identical cars underneath?

Advice would be welcome.

It's easy to answer. Both are good options. 13L is totally justified if you appreciate aesthetics, finer details and the prestige. It is also a significant amount of money to save if those things don't matter to you in a car. Some people prefer to avoid prestigious brands. Core aspects of safety, space, drive-train, fuel efficiency etc would be more or less the same.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by kapi

Is it worth stretching that extra 13L for the lexus, when they are identical cars underneath?.

Absolutely NOT.

Pick that Camry before someone else buys it

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I own the 2017 Lexus ES300h and in my ex-business we had a 2006 Camry and by B-i-L has the 2020 Camry which also I have driven. My observations are based on these three cars.

Thanks for that wonderfully insightful summary VNarayan. Really helpful to have the benefit of your 360 inputs based on your detailed experience of all three.

Originally Posted by androdev

It's easy to answer. Both are good options. 13L is totally justified if you appreciate aesthetics, finer details and the prestige. It is also a significant amount of money to save if those things don't matter to you in a car. Some people prefer to avoid prestigious brands. Core aspects of safety, space, drive-train, fuel efficiency etc would be more or less the same.

@Kapi: Everything he said! Couldn’t sum it up better, although if it was me personally making the decision ...

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Pick that Camry before someone else buys it

... that’s the direction in which I would go. You still get the occasional 2-3 year old Lexus in the market from time to time. But to get a 3 year old Camry is almost impossible to find. It has a small customer base and those who do buy seem to hold it for at least 5 years if not more. The price too is not unreasonable IMO. I’d say if that’s where you are veering, you should TD it and seal the deal quickly.

Good luck

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by kapi

I would agree that the interior quality, sound insulation the lexus is a notch above the camry.

I didn't really feel that much of a difference between the ride quality to be honest. They both use the same tyres (Yoko DB) and the difference in RQ may have been very very marginal.

The 2020 camry is 45L on road new! That's why I thought why not go the pre-owned route and save quite a bit!

If you are inclined to go for the Camry you should do so. The extra Rs 13L for the Lexus being worth it or not is a very subjective issue and can vary widely between 6 people each being right in his own way. All the best.