[androdev]

The source of such advice is from the west where labour is expensive and parts are relatively cheaper so it makes sense to change several parts together while the mech is working on the car. Here in India, parts are very expensive and labour cost is more reasonable so it makes sense to be discretionary when it comes to changing parts.

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by androdev

The source of such advice is from the west where labour is expensive and parts are relatively cheaper so it makes sense to change several parts together while the mech is working on the car. Here in India, parts are very expensive and labour cost is more reasonable so it makes sense to be discretionary when it comes to changing parts.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you (and the BMW service center which approved these unrecommended practices) on this regard. The source comes from Engineering and physics. Keeping aside west or east, replacing one strut per axle leaves the new strut to take most abuse and might result in premature failure. Also the old strut will dip more (due to less damping) on braking and weight transfer while cornering, leaving unstable situations (at axle level) while braking and steering. As I mentioned in one of my previous comments, I still standby the notion that replacing suspension components in pairs is the best way. Also BMW's service/workshop manual recommends the same too. Here is a screenshot which I took from an E90 workshop manual I had. Also the part of the manual attached in pdf. I will add a short video to show the effects of good and bad shock absorbers and their adverse impact. Now think of a situation when you are cornering hard and one of your (old) front struts is hitting a small bump. The new will damp properly but the old lets the wheel go off the road for few milliseconds. Those few critical milliseconds decides if your steering and braking reacts or not.

Originally Posted by PapaBravo

I believe the struts should be changed in pairs or else the good one takes uneven load and prematurely wears out.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

I hope your plan is to get it done on both sides instead of only the leaking one. It is always better to change/replace the suspension components/tires/brakes etc. ATLEAST per axle instead of per corner.

Though I can understand the cost reasons to replace one strut only, it is not the most safe solution when push comes to shove kind of braking/cornering situations. After all, we buy luxury brands not only for luxury but also for their proper engineering and IMHO we must keep things in good shape to make use of what we paid for in the first place. I would highly doubt if the F34 workshop manual says to replace one strut only.

PS: The labour costs are not that different from Europe and India when it comes to luxury brands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0vhTg82Pz0

[graaja]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Also BMW's service/workshop manual recommends the same too. Here is a screenshot which I took from an E90 workshop manual I had...

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.

I will get the right strut replaced as well. Will call the workshop and find out if they have the spares. If yes, will get this done immediately.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Though I can understand the cost reasons to replace one strut only, it is not the most safe solution when push comes to shove kind of braking/cornering situations. After all, we buy luxury brands not only for luxury but also for their proper engineering and IMHO we must keep things in good shape to make use of what we paid for in the first place.

Totally agree with this point. The only reason why I went ahead with the single strut replacement is because BMW workshop was fine with this. I don't want to compromise on performance or safety.

[androdev]

Obviously what you are saying is true but if you go through the ownership experiences on the car forums (BMW, MB, etc.), you will find may real world experiences of cars doing just fine with change of one strut.

Did one of the struts fail prematurely due to impact or through typical wear&tear due to age and mileage? If it's the former, then I would take my chances, replace only the failed strut, obverse for a month or so and then take the call about the 2nd one.

It's similar to changing tires in pairs - at what point would you discard the good tire? Less than 50% tread vs more than 75%. Ideal to replace in pairs but some aspect of cost benefit analysis has to come into the picture.

Recently I had to change the struts of S Class, so I spent a decent amount of time reading up about it and there were many owners who had trouble free ownership after replacing just one strut. The fact that each airmatic strut costs $1200 + labour (2.5x in India) influences such decisions.

Trust me, it's not easy to throw away a "potentially" good part worth Rs 45K taking the user manual as gospel.

The video you posted is helpful but the used vs new difference won't be so dramatic unless the used strut is on its way out which a knowledgeable driver would notice if it were the case.

[carthick1000]

When it is about premature failure, then cost benefit analysis indeed helps. Agree manual need not be followed as gospel, but it is written for a reason.

In this case, 70000kms in our road conditions seems like a reasonable time to replace the struts. The failed one might have few thousand more actuations than the one that didn’t give up yet. That doesn’t mean the whole extra money spent on replacing a pair instead of one is wasted. It is just a preventive method so that the imbalance in the axle is prevented. This might even save some money in future like uneven tire wear, bushing failures etc.

Btw, you will also see a marked difference between the European and American forums (my experience is mostly with American, British, Dutch and German forums) how the idea of replacing parts are approached from preventive and safety point of view, esp. German ones. This comes from periodic and strict MOT / Vehicle fitness inspection procedures.

[sagarpadaki]

In my opinion, it depends. If the struts have done a lot of kms. In our road conditions, anything above 50K kms is on the higher side. In such cases, it makes sense to replace both the struts.

Also, when the struts go bad, they either leak all the oil or start making funny noises or both. I had a 30K run strut with me which I had kept as spare when I replaced both the front struts on my car when one of the struts went bad. The compression and rebound characteristics of the 30K run strut was almost identical to a brand new strut.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by androdev

It's similar to changing tires in pairs - at what point would you discard the good tire? Less than 50% tread vs more than 75%. Ideal to replace in pairs but some aspect of cost benefit analysis has to come into the picture.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

In this case, 70000kms in our road conditions seems like a reasonable time to replace the struts...

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

In my opinion, it depends. If the struts have done a lot of kms. In our road conditions, anything above 50K kms is on the higher side. In such cases, it makes sense to replace both the struts.

Thank you all. At 70000 kilometers, I believe there is going to be a big difference between the old and new struts. I have placed the order for another strut and will get it replaced as soon as it arrives. I do not have any long drives planned for another month. So, except for some short drives in town, the car will not see much mileage.

@carthick1000, on hindsight, I feel I should have gone with your suggestion you made some time back. But made a bad call there. In fact, I feel like a fool now. But never too late.

Thanks a lot once again for all the inputs! Will update the thread once this is done.

PS: I guess it's time to create that corpus to replace the rear struts as well

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by graaja

PS: I guess it's time to create that corpus to replace the rear struts as well

Don't fix something if it ain't broken

But you now know that when the one of the rear struts conk off, replace both!

BTW, I suggest you keep the working strut as a backup if you have space in your home or garage.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Don't fix something if it ain't broken
..
BTW, I suggest you keep the working strut as a backup if you have space in your home or garage.

I meant saving money in advance for replacing the rear struts in pair when one of them fails, which may be soon

Yes. I will keep that working strut as a spare.

[graaja]

I have been delinquent in updating this thread for quite some time now. There have been a few updates.

New Vredestein tires for the rear wheels, October 2022

Till a few months back, I was running a square setup with 245/45/18 size, Yoko Advan Sport tires. When one pair of these wore out, I had decided to go back to staggered setup and and replaced them with 225/50/18 Vredesteins Ultrac tires and fit them in the front. The rear tires were still 245/45/18 Yoko Advans.

In October I noticed the rear wheels had very little tread left. There was just about 1mm depth at the tire wear indicators. Decided to change the rear tires also to Vredesteins so that all 4 tires are now of the same make and pattern. Checked with Madhus and they had this in stock and they shipped the tires to Coimbatore. Got them changed at NextGen in Coimbatore.

The tires collected from the transport and loaded in the boot.


Car on the lift for the change.


The car had got extremely dirty in the monsoons.


Getting the much needed wash.


Seeing a clean car after a couple of months!


Wheel speed sensor failure and replacement, brake fluid change and front right suspension replacement, November 2022

Earlier, I had a failure of the front left strut and had replaced this. This was documented in the below post.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post5380693

As many fellow TBHP members had recommended, I had decided to change the front right strut as well and had placed order for the parts. In the first week of November, I had got a call from Mr. Karthik, the service manager that the parts had arrived. The iDrive also gave me a notification that the brake fluid replaement wsa due in November 2022.

As I had a drive to Pondicherry in the 2nd week of November I told him that I will get the strut replaced after this drive. While in Pondicherry, the car gave the following errors. The error display was quite erratic. It would be on sometimes and then clear sometimes.







I immediately called Mr. Karthik and he told me that this could be because of wheel speed sensor failure. He told me that I could still drive the car safely. Just like the notification, he asked me to drive it moderately without hard braking (as the ABS and stabilization functions would be unreliable). I drove back very carefully and kept the speed between 80 to 100 on the highways, without any hard braking. And for the first time in the 4 years and 9 months of owning the car, saw this FE After driving 423 kilometers, there was still 320km range left.



The day after I reached Coimbatore, Mr. Karthik arranged a pickup of the car. There were a few other issues I had reported to be fixed. The car was delivered the next day after fixing most of the issues I had reported with a couple of issues pending.

The following is the list of work that needed to be completed.

1. Brake fluid change: Completed free of cost under BSI+
2. Front right suspension replacement: Completed at my own cost. I paid 46K for this (the same as I had paid for the front left strut)
3. Speed sensor error: Fixed free of cost under BRI
4. Rear spoiler error: This error is related to the wheel speed sensor, as the spoiler opening and closing is based on speed. After the speed sensor replacement, the error went away.
5. Automatic opening and closing of boot door failed a few times in the past one month. It had failed once a few days before the speed sensor error and a couple of times after the speed sensor error. Mr. Karthik told me this also could be because of the speed sensor error. I have not had any problems after the speed sensor replacement. If the problem comes back, it will have to be debugged and fixed.
6. I have been observing some vibration in the car after starting. The vibrations used to go away after the engine ran for a couple of minutes. During service, they found that the engine mounts had worn out, and will be replaced under warranty. They placed an order for the part and the part arrived in the last week of November. Will be sending the car back to workshop for this replacement after I finish the TBHP meet at Nadugani next week.
7. There was some rattling sound from the roof. They have lubricated the sunroof beadings. But there is still some rattling. This may require the disassembly of the sunroof. I have decided to let this be as it is not much of a bother. Don't want to risk adding more issues by dismantling the sunroof.

As always, I would rate 5 stars for the service experience with KUN BMW at Coimbatore. I am totally enjoying the car as it nears almost 5 years and close to 85000 kilometers.

I have not clicked any pictures after the service. I have a couple of drives coming up - the Nadugani TBHP drive and another astrophotography trip. Will update on these drives soon.

That's all folks, I have for now!

[Dr.AD]

Originally Posted by graaja

I have been delinquent in updating this thread for quite some time now. There have been a few updates.

Thanks for sharing these updates, @graaja, and good to see this thread active again. I always love reading your thread and your updates, and stories of your adventures with your 3GT.

It is quite interesting to see how "reliable" BMWs are, in the true sense of the world "reliability". They never let you stranded on the road, and even when parts fail, they fail almost in a very predictable manner.

For example, both your car and my car have had a similar running (both around 78k-80k km on the odo now), with similar driving patterns and similar terrains tackled. And it is interesting to note the similarities in the failure patterns too. Both of us have had the brake cable clamp, the front dampers, and now the ABS/speed sensors failed and replaced at about the same times! Thankfully, in both our cases, the BMW service team gave the best of their service in fixing the parts well and covering whatever possible under BRI.

I have not clicked any pictures after the service. I have a couple of drives coming up - the Nadugani TBHP drive and another astrophotography trip. Will update on these drives soon.

I am looking forward to meeting you in the next drive. We missed taking photos of your 3GT when we met at Taj Bekal a couple of months ago. But this time, let us a do a 3GT photoshoot in the Nadugaani drive! See you there soon!

[Doctortraveller]

@graaja, your 3GT is an inspiration. I have a 2014 3GT which recently went in for a suspension replacement. Had this hollow rumbling noise from the back tyre wells, which worsened to a constant squeaking sound. Was told the mounts had worn off and so finally bit the bullet and got it replaced by OEM Sachs shocks. While this was being done, was informed that my 4yr/15000km tyres had developed cracks in the sidewall and need replacement. I have a square 245/45/18 setup in the car. My questions are-

1. Based on the reviews by members I am conflicted between Yokohama Advan Sport v105 or the Vredestein or others such as Goodyear/Continental. Any of these that should absolutely be AVOIDED?

2. I don't remember what the config before the change was - so wondering if I should stick to the current square setup that I have no issues with? or Should it be changed to front 225/50/18 and rear 245/45/18 tubeless.

3. In the past I have had tyres replaced at Gobind Tyres at Lamington road. Any suggestions on dealers for the same. I find Kulvinder at Gobind tyres quite friendly and well informed.

Thank you all. Looking forward to more posts from this blue beauty by @graaja.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

Thanks for sharing these updates, @graaja, and good to see this thread active again. I always love reading your thread and your updates, and stories of your adventures with your 3GT.

Thank you for the kind words AD

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

It is quite interesting to see how "reliable" BMWs are, in the true sense of the world "reliability". They never let you stranded on the road, and even when parts fail, they fail almost in a very predictable manner.

For example, both your car and my car have had a similar running (both around 78k-80k km on the odo now), with similar driving patterns and similar terrains tackled...

Completely agree. So far, the car has been quite reliable (touchwood). Even when some failures occured I was able to drive the car safely. And the wear and tear also is par for the course considering the usage and the types of roads we drive the cars. Hope the car maintains this reliability throughout the ownership. Want to keep this for at least 8 years.

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

I am looking forward to meeting you in the next drive. We missed taking photos of your 3GT when we met at Taj Bekal a couple of months ago. But this time, let us a do a 3GT photoshoot in the Nadugaani drive! See you there soon!

I too am looking forward to meeting you in Nadugani. Let's do a proper photoshoot this time.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Doctortraveller

1. Based on the reviews by members I am conflicted between Yokohama Advan Sport v105 or the Vredestein or others such as Goodyear/Continental. Any of these that should absolutely be AVOIDED?

2. I don't remember what the config before the change was - so wondering if I should stick to the current square setup that I have no issues with? or Should it be changed to front 225/50/18 and rear 245/45/18 tubeless.

3. In the past I have had tyres replaced at Gobind Tyres at Lamington road. Any suggestions on dealers for the same. I find Kulvinder at Gobind tyres quite friendly and well informed.

Thank you for the kind words! Responses to your questions below:

1. I have used both Yoko Advan Sport V105 and Vredesteins and found them to be equally good. They have a good balance between comfort and sportiness. I would highly recommend both these brands.

2. If yours is the MSport, the original configuration was 225/50/18 in the front and 255/45/18 in the rear.

After trying the 245/45/18 square setup, I like the staggered setup as the steering response is a little sharper with the 225/50/18 tires in the front compared to the 245/45. I plan to keep this 225/50/18 front and 245/45/18 rear combination henceforth. I would suggest you to try this as well. The only disadvantage of running a staggered setup is that you will not be able to do front to back tire rotation.

3. I have no knowledge about tire dealerships in your place. Maybe others from Mumbai can comment on this.

[ritedhawan]

Nice read. This is definitely a 'one of a kind' GT. Your proactiveness in terms of multiple visits to the service center the moment iDrive pronounces its verdict about an upcoming service or for that matter brake pad replacement is worth a resounding applause.

The multiple brake pad replacements coupled with rare disc replacement gets my imaginative mind running and lets me believe that you often follow the 'acceleration-braking-deacceleration' cycle and that 'engine-braking' is a distant alternative. Correct me if I am wrong here.

The iDrive feature: quick drop in KM left for brake pad replacement from '10000 KM left' to '2000 KM left' (assumption) in the space of a day or two seems quirky! This may put an owner on toes as who knows the next time one is driving and one may come across such a notification which is followed by another call to the service center for an appointment.

The suspension upgrade that has been performed on the car during its early days may have provided you the benefit of a stiffened suspension. However, it is my assumption that this move in itself may have been contributing to the bend alloy issue that you have been facing. When the original alloys along with the RFT's were in place, you ended up facing this issue. When you had those BBS alloys along with tubeless tires, you later on faced the same issue. Thus its my assumption that the stiffened suspension may be the real cause. Would like to know your and the ensemble audience thoughts regarding the same?

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you (and the BMW service center which approved these unrecommended practices) on this regard. The source comes from Engineering and physics. Keeping aside west or east, replacing one strut per axle leaves the new strut to take most abuse and might result in premature failure.

This post by 'carthick1000' is spot on. I too agree that the front struts should have been replaced in pairs and that the counter argument regarding 'Cost-benefit' falls flat in front of it.

There is something I would like to ask you and the ensemble audience regarding BSI on this particular instance:

Originally Posted by graaja

About 10 days back saw the notification that the front brake pads are up for a change. Decided to get it done after Pongal holidays.

Called up the service manager yesterday and took the car to the workshop. They checked the brake discs and found that the discs also need a change. However they do not have the discs in stock and are expecting it in a week. As I have a trip to Munnar this weekend, I wanted the pads to be replaced and the discs after they arrive. However, with the BSI+ policy, if the discs are up for replacement, they have to be changed with the pads.

If the brake pads need replacement then they should have gone ahead with that job first before inadvertently coupling it with disc replacement. I understand that both were worn out. However, they didn't have the discs in stock, but they did have the brake pads. Then they should have gone ahead with brake pad replacement. "Their denying you that service because they brought up a 'dependency' which they say comes up under their BSI+ policy": this argument seems to be on a slippery ground.

Tomorrow, lets assume if your car requires an ignition coil set change then who knows due to non-availability of spark plugs or vice-versa. They will set up another such dependency which according to them comes under BSI+ policy in order to deny you service. This is where I come back to the question which I wanted to ask you before I quoted you:

When you signed up for BSI+, did that document set forth in detail such dependencies? For example, jobs such as these would require parts to be changed in pairs instead of being changed separately?

The above question is directed at the ensemble audience as well. I would like to know their opinions as well.

Another question to you: What is the condition of engine mounts, transmission mounts?