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Old 21st July 2021, 12:24   #181
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

Lovely snaps, Dr. AD! The scenery adds to the beauty of the 3 lovely beasts!

Your decision of not to use your 320d within the city- is it more due to erratic traffic and the possibility of a scratch or two to the beauty? Or is it just because you have a city beater anyway?
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Old 21st July 2021, 13:58   #182
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackstraightBoy View Post
Many cheers, Dr. AD! Actually, because red F30 320ds are not exactly common in Bengaluru, I have actually come to associate them with you. Just this morning I saw one close to my home and thought of you!

"Goodness of a BMW with the reliability of a Maruti" – that is the key line for me from this entire page! Very glad that it's in the hands of someone who likes taking it out so much and using it to make memories (and cool pictures!)
Thank you very much! Yes, this car deserves to be driven out on the open roads, and I take her out on the open roads as much as possible. Luckily, there are plenty of good roads (good for driving conditions as well as scenic) near Bangalore. Therefore, driving around and taking pictures is something I can easily manage in my weekends and I love that.

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The second highlight is your wife falling in love with the car enough to want to go on drives. How wonderful! A non-motoring enthusiast recognizing the goodness of a car is the ultimate testament to its charm. Kudos to the F30!
Very true. I am so glad that my wife likes this car. That is what makes driving trips with her more fun now.

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Here's wishing you many thousands of miles more of driving pleasure and memories with your lovely 3.
Thank you very much for your kind words and the wishes!

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Originally Posted by Sridhar C E View Post
Lovely snaps, Dr. AD! The scenery adds to the beauty of the 3 lovely beasts!
Thank you!

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Your decision of not to use your 320d within the city- is it more due to erratic traffic and the possibility of a scratch or two to the beauty? Or is it just because you have a city beater anyway?
No, it is nothing like that. It is not like I am trying to safeguard this car from city traffic. No, not at all.
It just happened that my city driving has become practically nil in the recent times. Of course, since last year or so, due to covid and working from home, the city driving is almost zero. Even before that, my work required me to have several meetings in the day in various tech parks and business districts. There invariably the traffic and parking situation was so bad (in Bangalore, pre-covid times) that I used to hate driving (and spending 30 minutes searching for parking and getting late for meetings). I used to take Uber for all my meetings, and hardly ever drove my own car. And on top of that, if ever needed, I have the other beater car which I don't mind giving to a valet for parking! This explains why I almost never used the BMW for city driving.

The only times when I used BMW in the city was when I was going for a lunch or coffee meet with my BHPian friends and we had plans for some photoshoots with the car etc.
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Old 21st July 2021, 15:33   #183
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post

A Casual Drive & Photoshoot with Friends


Congratulations on completing 3 years with this beauty, She looks smashing in red. Learned something new today as always. (CBS)

Couple of questions as I may be upgrading to the same car 2nd or 3rd quarter of 2022 (letting this 10 year scraping rule confusion to be cleared in NCR before I go all in):
  1. Why this over rivals like Audi A4, and Mercedes C class.
  2. How's the GC with 2 adults & some luggage, does she scrape in the bad sections of the Ghats, Please note that my current ride has spoiled me (Nissan Terrano, a capable soft roader, never scraped even on big boulders in the Himalayas & beyond).
  3. General Maintenance Cost.
Cheers
Nitish
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Old 21st July 2021, 18:02   #184
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Nitish.arnold View Post
Congratulations on completing 3 years with this beauty, She looks smashing in red. Learned something new today as always. (CBS)
Thank you!

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Why this over rivals like Audi A4, and Mercedes C class.
All these are good cars and have their own strengths and weaknesses. However, if you read my opening post to this thread, you will see that this time I was specifically yearning for a BMW. A BMW 3-series in my book was (and still is) a quintessential driver's sedan with great handling, RWD and 50:50 weight distribution. Of course, F30 is not as sharp as the earlier E90, but still, it is quite a good handler. And not looking at handling in isolation but looking at the handling & ride quality balance, F30 is very good, especially for Indian conditions. The fact that my wife loves to come on long drives in this car is a testimony to this. The car has the perfect balance to keep the driver happy with its sharpness and dynamics, and keep the passenger happy with a flat and yet comfortable ride. This was precisely the characteristic I was looking for.

Audi A4 is a very different car, and it has very different personalities depending on whether it is Quattro or FWD. I love Audi's Quattro. I owned an A4 Quattro (with 1.8TSi engine) in the US and enjoyed that car. I drove that car all over the US (did several cross-country solo drives in that car!) and loved it to the bits. However, sadly, the A4 Quattro is rare to find in India, and I was not interested in the FWD A4. So that ruled out the A4.

Further, I am an experimentalist in life and I like to try different things. I am very unlikely to buy the same car twice. I have owned five different brands till now (with no repetition), and I am almost sure my sixth car will be a sixth brand :-)

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How's the GC with 2 adults & some luggage, does she scrape in the bad sections of the Ghats.
GC is fine with 2 adults and luggage as long as you are careful. In fact, I did a couple of drives with 4 adults and luggage and it was still fine, again as long as I was careful. It takes some time to get used to carefully crossing the speed-breakrers and carefully maneuvering the potholes, but once you get a hang of it, it is not that big a challenge. GC of this car is not an issue any more for me and for my kind of driving style and routes.

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General Maintenance Cost.
This is a complex question and depends a lot on your running, various service packages and warranty packages. In general BMWs are very reliable. Routine service roughly costs Rs. 22k for oil change (every 10,000km on average), another Rs. 44k for all four brake pads change (which you can assume once every 20,000km on average), Rs. 40k for brake disc change (once every 45,000km on average), and then some other incidental minor charges. Tyre costs can also add up quickly. A good set of tyres for these cars will cost Rs.18,000 to Rs. 20,000 per tyre, and a typical Run Flat Tyre lasts about 25,000km or so. With this, you will get an idea of the typical maintenance cost.
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Old 21st July 2021, 20:03   #185
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
Thank you!

This is a complex question and depends a lot on your running, various service packages and warranty packages. In general BMWs are very reliable. Routine service roughly costs Rs. 22k for oil change (every 10,000km on average), another Rs. 44k for all four brake pads change (which you can assume once every 20,000km on average), Rs. 40k for brake disc change (once every 45,000km on average), and then some other incidental minor charges. Tyre costs can also add up quickly. A good set of tyres for these cars will cost Rs.18,000 to Rs. 20,000 per tyre, and a typical Run Flat Tyre lasts about 25,000km or so. With this, you will get an idea of the typical maintenance cost.
Lovely summary,
Wishing you unlimited - Goodness of a BMW, Reliability of a Maruti
Thanks for continuously sharing and the lovely pics
Not discounting the pleasure of this beautiful machine.


Rough calculation for the above is ~ INR 8 / Km apart from fuel cost. (~45k Km)
Not sure if filters are included in the INR 22k - 10k km cost
Or any other routine expenses
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Old 21st July 2021, 20:52   #186
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by PM - B View Post
Lovely summary,
Wishing you unlimited - Goodness of a BMW, Reliability of a Maruti
Thanks for continuously sharing and the lovely pics
Not discounting the pleasure of this beautiful machine.
Thank you very much!

Quote:
Rough calculation for the above is ~ INR 8 / Km apart from fuel cost. (~45k Km)
Yes that is correct.

Quote:
Not sure if filters are included in the INR 22k - 10k km cost
Or any other routine expenses
That oil change cost of Rs. 22k I mentioned includes filters. Basically oil change comes with all the "usual" things like filter changes. That whole package is about Rs. 22k.

However, should you need any additional spare parts, they can be quite expensive. For example, in the above calculation, I have not included small things like wiper blades. If I recall right, a simple wiper blades change at BMW service centers could cost you about Rs. 5k.

Last edited by Dr.AD : 21st July 2021 at 20:53.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 06:12   #187
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

Nice detailed report.

Does the 320D come with a exhaust flap?

I bought a 2013 F30 328i ~6 weeks ago and I love it. Sampled quite a few cars before getting this one. Narrowed down to two red 328i's, the difference being Comfort and Sport trim levels. Settled for the latter even though I lost out on leather and heated seats. I found the fabric seats better and the Sport had better rims (Same as yours). The Comfort trim for some odd reason lost out on side bolstering for the seats. They were just flat backed seats and under thigh extensions missing. Kinda weird how they spec cars for each country.

Spot on observation on the tires. I'm still on the RFT S001 and intend to keep it that way. They are noisy to the point that it drowns out bass on the stereo. I don't have it playing anymore if I drive on the motorway. It needs to be turned up so loud that it is uncomfortable. There is also a certain resonant hum heard from the tires when going down the motorway too.

I assume the suspension set up is different based on where the car is sold. My car is sprung soft. It corners fine but there is body roll for sure. The saving grace is the low ride height, center of gravity being low which sort of compensates. The car corners well but you are surely leaning from side the side when you push hard, with the seat side bolsters holding you or offering support while you do so.

I must add that the steering is a delight. It is direct and precise. I assume it is eps though I see a steering shaft travel all the way down to the assembly, when you check under the hood.

While I have not owned the car long enough, a few things do annoy me. These are things I could not catch during my test drive and before I purchased the car as the drive was on a flat, smooth motorway.

Some of the interior bits are cheap and do rattle. The door lock stubs for one has a slight internal rattle and so does the door pad itself. The lock stubs rattle on all four doors. This is more noticeable on roads with lots of undulations, which is what most roads are like in my part of the world. All of this can be fixed with some diy. The thin red strip that runs along the dashboard feels flimsy and not glued well. Granted that the car is 8 years old and some of this is expected with age. Also, some sections of the dashboard have hard, cheap to feel plastic. Not what I was expecting from a European car. I can say with confidence that cars from a similar year, generation from brands like Mercedes, Volvo have better materials for the interiors.

The idrive has started to act up on mine. The center display cuts out completely from time to time, displays odd colors. Not easily reproduceable. I am getting this sorted under the dealers warranty agreement. It is evident idrive is working in the background and its just the screen that goes off.

I cannot understand why BMW ditched the dip stick. Quite a few brands have taken this approach and I think it is stupid. The only way to check engine oil is via the idrive system. I like to check the level and condition of oil from time to time and there is no way to do this.

Aside from some of the issues above, this car is pure joy for the driver. I did check out a few other European brand of cars. None of them offer the engagement of driving that this BMW has.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 22nd July 2021 at 06:15.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 09:27   #188
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Does the 320D come with a exhaust flap?
I am not an expert in the exhaust system, and I could be wrong in my understanding. However, the 320d will have the exhaust flap as part of the EGR system, if that is what you are referring to. Of course, it is not controllable and I can not choose to keep it open or close. That logic is part of the EGR system. In general, the diesel is not really a nice sounding and there is no point in even thinking of keeping the flap open and extracting some sounds from it. That thought never even occurred to me and hence I never bothered to check the details. The diesel is best when it is muted and yet in the torque zone, which thankfully this one is most of the times.

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I bought a 2013 F30 328i ~6 weeks ago and I love it. Sampled quite a few cars before getting this one. Narrowed down to two red 328i's, the difference being Comfort and Sport trim levels. Settled for the latter even though I lost out on leather and heated seats. I found the fabric seats better and the Sport had better rims (Same as yours). The Comfort trim for some odd reason lost out on side bolstering for the seats. They were just flat backed seats and under thigh extensions missing. Kinda weird how they spec cars for each country.
Great! Congratulations! 328i is a lovely car and nice that you found one! These are rare to find in India.

I agree with you that the seats without side bolstering look bad. I was keen on the "Sports Seats" which come with extendible thigh support and electronically adjustable side bolstering. And thankfully, in India, we get these Sports Seats with genuine leather! I love these seats and the seats are a big part of my attraction to this car.

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Spot on observation on the tires. I'm still on the RFT S001 and intend to keep it that way. They are noisy to the point that it drowns out bass on the stereo. I don't have it playing anymore if I drive on the motorway. It needs to be turned up so loud that it is uncomfortable. There is also a certain resonant hum heard from the tires when going down the motorway too.
Lot of these problems are specific to Bridgestone RFTs (like the same S0001 I had as OEM tyres in my car). I think RFTS as a whole got a lot of bad publicity due to few bad examples like the S0001s. Thankfully, now Michelin has some excellent RFTs (ZP as Michelin calls them), and they are way superior to these S0001s. I have switched to Michelin Primacy 3ZP and I love those tyres. In your part of the world, you will even fine Michelin PS4 ZP (which are the OEMs now on M340i for example) and they would be the best RFTs one can have.

Quote:
I assume the suspension set up is different based on where the car is sold. My car is sprung soft. It corners fine but there is body roll for sure. The saving grace is the low ride height, center of gravity being low which sort of compensates. The car corners well but you are surely leaning from side the side when you push hard, with the seat side bolsters holding you or offering support while you do so.
This soft suspension was a problem in F30 before the LCI in 2015-16. Your 2013 car is pre-LCI and hence you face this. Thankfully, they improved the suspension in the F30 LCI, and the post LCI cars have a much better suspension and minimal body roll. Again, this was one of the reasons I was keen on a post-LCI F30.

On the flip side, the post-LCI F30 has the all LED lighting package, which is not great. The LED headlights are underwhelming at best. Your car (pre-LCI) will have the HIDs with projectors, and that is a great setup. So you gain some and lose some with the LCI.

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I must add that the steering is a delight. It is direct and precise. I assume it is eps though I see a steering shaft travel all the way down to the assembly, when you check under the hood.
Totally agree. The steering is delight, and more so in the Sports mode where the steering becomes a bit heavier and more sharp. In my highway drives, I almost always drive in Sports mode and I love the steering in the Sports mode even more. In general, the steering and in general the poise and the composure of this car even in high speed maneuvers is something I find remarkable!

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While I have not owned the car long enough, a few things do annoy me. These are things I could not catch during my test drive and before I purchased the car as the drive was on a flat, smooth motorway.
OK Interesting! Since you car is 8 years old, maybe these tings are showing up. Unfortunately minor rattles are there in some of the F30s. My car also had a minor rattle for somewhere near the boot area - maybe from the rear subblind or the parcel tray. Thankfully, just as mysteriously this rattle appeared one fine day, it also mysteriously disappeared one fine day. I have not heard this rattle in last 3 months and I am happy about that. Other than that, my car is still tight and silent all over. But this is still just 4 year old car (3 years in my hand and it was 1 year old when I got this) and these are early days for me yet. But going by the examples I am hearing, I will have to be prepared to face some rattles as the car gets older.

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I cannot understand why BMW ditched the dip stick. Quite a few brands have taken this approach and I think it is stupid. The only way to check engine oil is via the idrive system. I like to check the level and condition of oil from time to time and there is no way to do this.
Interestingly, the 320d still has a dip stick, in addition to the engine oil level sensors ans the iDrive display. It is in the petrol engines that they completely eliminated the dip stick and went to sensors only. The diesel engines have both the sensors and the dip stick. However, to be honest, I have never bothered to check the dip stick. I check engine oil level using the iDrive and I find that to be good and nice. I do not see any problem with that.

Quote:
Aside from some of the issues above, this car is pure joy for the driver. I did check out a few other European brand of cars. None of them offer the engagement of driving that this BMW has.
Agree with you. It is lovely car. Enjoy you car and wish you many happy miles on this car!
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Old 22nd July 2021, 09:56   #189
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
I am not an expert in the exhaust system, and I could be wrong in my understanding. However, the 320d will have the exhaust flap as part of the EGR system, if that is what you are referring to. Of course, it is not controllable and I can not choose to keep it open or close. That logic is part of the EGR system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Nice detailed report.

Does the 320D come with a exhaust flap?
Nope the flap is only on the petrol's. The diesel is a standard exhaust system.

@ Dr.AD the EGR valve is not really on exhaust side it is a valve that send exhaust gases back to the intake to help warm up and reduce emissions in cold start condition. It is done mainly for emission control to ensure that all diesel is burnt cleanly. It plays no part in sound.

What Sandeep is referring to is the exhaust valve on the silencer of the 328i and 330i which in sport and sport+ sounds louder with more pops throaty tone.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 10:11   #190
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Nitish.arnold View Post
Couple of questions as I may be upgrading to the same car 2nd or 3rd quarter of 2022
I'd like to add a few points over Dr. AD's. This is my personal take.

If all you care about is fun behind the wheel, get a BMW.
If you want elegance and class, get a Mercedes. No other brand gets recognized or commands as much respect. You can arrive in a mundane C200 and it still turns heads everywhere.
If you want a German just as a means to go from point A to B, get an Audi.

The only exception to the above is if you end up buying a Mercedes C63 from a similar generation. It was a tempting proposition for me as there were cars that cost just a little more than the 328i. I was not confident enough to buy one knowing that the car suffers from worn head bolts (as it generates so much power) and it is going to cost a lot more to gas up as an every day car. Its also too much power. I live in a country where the maximum legal speed limit is 100Kmph. I ain't going to be doing any justice with a C63. In fact, a smaller engine car will be more fun as you get to wring it atleast.

Audi's are a nice. They just lack any feel of driving. The Quattro system being the only real selling point. The steering is as numb as it gets, even on something as good as an S5! I got to hand to them for their A5 and A7 styling. Really slick looking sedans.

The 3 series is at best, a 2 seat compact car. Folks at the back are not going to be comfortable. A 5th person, even a child, is best avoided. They will be sitting perched up on the middle seat with their legs spread wide apart due to the massive transmission tunnel. With regard to ground clearance, I've managed to scrape the front lip of the car with a full payload (2 adults, a 9 year old and a boot packed tight). I was careless. Had I taken the approach a little more slowly, it could have been avoided. You'll have to pay attention to things like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
However, the 320d will have the exhaust flap as part of the EGR system, if that is what you are referring to.
No. Its this part. The copper wire isn't a part of it. I suspect the previous owner did that to keep the flap open.
Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km-img_20210529_113215.jpg
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Old 22nd July 2021, 11:54   #191
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
@ Dr.AD the EGR valve is not really on exhaust side it is a valve that send exhaust gases back to the intake to help warm up and reduce emissions in cold start condition. It is done mainly for emission control to ensure that all diesel is burnt cleanly. It plays no part in sound.

What Sandeep is referring to is the exhaust valve on the silencer of the 328i and 330i which in sport and sport+ sounds louder with more pops throaty tone.
OK, I see. Thanks for correcting me and for the explanation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
No. Its this part. The copper wire isn't a part of it. I suspect the previous owner did that to keep the flap open.
OK, got it now. Thanks! So as explained by Vid6639 above, the 320d does not have it.

Anyways, I never bothered about this or more sporty sound. I do not think 320d will sound sporty no matter what one does. This is not a nice sounding engine at all. This is the kind of sound that you would want to mute and not enhance :-)

I am fully aware that my car has the diesel clatter, but thankfully it is quite muted and not much audible inside the cabin. The cabin is quite silent, and I like it that way. From the outside though, this engine sounds loud and you can hear all the ugly diesel clatter. It feels as if some tractor is coming your way. I hate to hear diesel engine sounds from outside the car, and the 320d is no exception to that.

Last edited by Dr.AD : 22nd July 2021 at 12:14.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 04:49   #192
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
I am fully aware that my car has the diesel clatter, but thankfully it is quite muted and not much audible inside the cabin. The cabin is quite silent, and I like it that way.
The 328i is no different actually. The DI clatter took me by surprise. My 2005 3l Subaru Legacy had an almost dead silent engine in comparison, after clocking over 110k km. As is the case with a diesel, its more audible on the outside than inside. In this regard, I must say, VW's Tsi engines are quiet. Its more the method of fueling that is causing the noise than the engine itself.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 08:03   #193
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
The 328i is no different actually. The DI clatter took me by surprise. My 2005 3l Subaru Legacy had an almost dead silent engine in comparison, after clocking over 110k km. As is the case with a diesel, its more audible on the outside than inside. In this regard, I must say, VW's Tsi engines are quiet.
I agree with you. I have driven the 328i and while the engine is very good for performance, it is neither very silent nor as refined as some of the best petrol engines are. In comparison, as you said, the VAG 2.0TSi is very refined. I recently test drove new Octavia with 2.0TSi engine and was impressed by the refinement of the engine.

I think the real magic of BMW engines (either petrol or diesel) starts with their inline six-cylinder engines. I have not driven the M340i but rode shotgun in the M340i and I could immediately notice the smoothness and refinement of the engine even as a passenger - the feeling you will never get in a four-cylinder BMW. And the sound of that engine is just beautiful - it goes smoothly from silent to roaring with joy!

Looks like till get to lay our hands on a six-cylinder BMW, we will have to make do with the clattery four-cylinders :-)

Last edited by Dr.AD : 23rd July 2021 at 08:08.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 08:54   #194
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Default Re: Red-Hot BMW: Story of my pre-owned BMW 320d Sport Line (F30 LCI). EDIT: 3 Years and 40,000km

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Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
I think the real magic of BMW engines (either petrol or diesel) starts with their inline six-cylinder engines….. get to lay our hands on a six-cylinder BMW, we will have to make do with the clattery four-cylinders
Correct, if I have to ever drive or sit in any 4 cylinder ones, engine sound is the first thing that gets pointed out. Difference between 8 and 6 is not that much noticeable though.
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