[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by GT3

The W212 E Class is more suited for cruising than cornering and it excels in that area. The W212 is more suited to our roads than the E60. If mileage is a concern try the E220 or the E250 but you will miss the creamy 6 cylinder in the E350.

I have not ventured into Audi's because most of the cars have air suspension, which entails costly repairs.

Ah, I was eyeing the F10 or G30 530d. I know the w212 is a generation older but I didn't bother looking at used models of the newer E class because the LWB means it can't really be sporty anyway.

Other than the air suspension is there anything else problematic about Audis? I think I could stomach the one time cost of 4 bag replacements if it means no issues for the next 50k kms.

[Sandy2345]

Originally Posted by GT3

Purchase 4: 2008 BMW 530D


I immediately went to Chennai the next day from Coimbatore. Saw it, drove it, checked the service history and bought it immediately.


•since it’s 15 years old.

•A competent FNG is a must. Otherwise don’t even think about owning a 10 year old German.

Hello there,

A very good insight on used German cars! Thank you for this. I have a couple of questions lying around with me. I think you might be the right person to answer these.

• Since you are already owning a 15 year old German car, may I ask how are you coping up with regards to the insurance? As far as I know, the insurers provide only third party coverage and not the comprehensive ones if the car crosses 15 years of it's age. This in my case is like a time bomb waiting to blast in case of accidental repairs.
  
  
• I see you are from Coimbatore. Kindly let us know the FNG where your cars were maintained or if you were experimenting with multiple FNG's, kindly share those experiences as well since the service experiences could be a great insight too for readers like me residing in the same city.

P.S.: I went the same route as you and I brought home a 3rd gen Octavia TDI MT last year and it's been running absolutely intact ever since. I do agree with the interior trims failing in decade old Germans and mine is not an exception too. I have had the fuel lid actuator failing on me, a couple of broken window switches and the infamous AC vents.

Thanks in advance!

[MageshSai]

Originally Posted by Sumanyu17

These many parts shouldn't be failing on a 13 year old/ 1L km run car under any circumstances. Its not like we treat the car roughly, this is under regular point A to point B usage.

Unfortunate! There is really something wrong in the upkeep. I have 11 years old Passat B7 which I bought from a second owner in Mar 2022 with the ODO of 1,43,000 KM and currently it is 1,56,000 KM. I only have falling roof liner issue and broken sunroof shade handle. Everything else is in very good condition.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by GT3

Purchase 3: 2010 MB E350 CDI

It has run 1,30,000 currently. I might replace it with a L322 Range Rover, W221 S350 CDI, Facelift W212 E350 CDI or the Endeavour 3.2.

Pros:

•Good reliability.

The vehicle has run 1,48,000 kms now. I have recently purchased a 2015 Pajero Sport 4x4 MT and thought of selling the E350. But considering the resale value I was getting for the car, I am planning to retain it till 2,00,000 and then consider upgrading to a more recent used luxury car in the future.

A key factor in retaining the E350 is it's reliability, other than a clogged EGR which is common in all high mileage luxury diesels, it has been a touchwood so far. The value proposition with this car in unmatchable.

In the pros I had listed good reliability but after crossing 1,48,000 kms, I think the W212 E well deserves an excellent reliability rating.

Purchase 4: 2008 BMW 530D

It has run 1,00,000 kms currently. I might sell the car, since it is too stiff for the most of our roads, but it is a dream on smooth tarmac. I might replace it with the F10 530D or Panamera or a Cayenne.

Pros:

•Average reliability.

Cons:

•Extremely stiff ride which is not suitable for most of our Indian roads. I thought it’ll be manageable, but it’s not, even after replacing the struts.

The 530D has run 1,10,000 kms now. The reason for the low running is because of the downtime relating to AC, headlights and infotainment issues. The AC and headlight issues have been sorted and the infotainment issue is still pending to be resolved. Though there are niggles I would still go by the average reliability rating instead of a bad reliability rating considering it is a 15 year old complex German.

I would like to make a correction regarding the ride quality of the E60 generation. The front struts were not replaced initially since they were thought to be in good condition but they were worn out and replaced eventually. Also the tyres were RFT's previously and changed to Vredestein Ultra Vorti tubeless. After these two changed the ride quality is miles better and can certainly be used as a family car by all means. I would give a rating of 9 for the E350's ride quality with struts that are run more than 80,000 kms and give a 7 for the 530D with new struts. That's how impressive the E350's ride quality is and the BMW is certainly liveable for sure.

Considering the joy this car brings to me and the amount time and money I have spent in improving it's condition, I am planning to retain it atleast till 1,50,000 (maybe till 2,00,000 kms also) and then consider upgrading to a more recent used performance car in the future.

My general thoughts after owning 3 old Germans

•If you want peace of mind I would suggest getting a car 5 year old German. Even though 10-15 year old cars are reasonably reliable it will not be a rosy path as there will be constant minor niggles. God forbid, there is a fair chance you might end up with a white elephant.

•A competent FNG is a must. Otherwise don’t even think about owning a 10 year old German.

I still go by the above two points.

If a non car person would have bought the cars of my same vintage they would have definitely sold it and moved forward but not necessarily because of maintenance costs (which have been reasonable for the age). It is mainly due to the knowledge and time we have in hand to repair our cars. So for the vast majority of people I would still suggest to go with a less than 5 year old car.

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Other than the air suspension is there anything else problematic about Audis? I think I could stomach the one time cost of 4 bag replacements if it means no issues for the next 50k kms.

The only Audi that interested me was the A6 3.0 TDI but since it had air suspension I left it out. Also the brand Audi from 2011-2015(which is the vintage I was looking at) doesn't have an USP like the BMW or the Merc. I am not sure about the other reliability parameters of the Audi.

Originally Posted by Sandy2345

[*]Since you are already owning a 15 year old German car, may I ask how are you coping up with regards to the insurance? As far as I know, the insurers provide only third party coverage and not the comprehensive ones if the car crosses 15 years of it's age. This in my case is like a time bomb waiting to blast in case of accidental repairs.

[*]I see you are from Coimbatore. Kindly let us know the FNG where your cars were maintained or if you were experimenting with multiple FNG's, kindly share those experiences as well since the service experiences could be a great insight too for readers like me residing in the same city.[/list]
P.S.: I went the same route as you and I brought home a 3rd gen Octavia TDI MT last year and it's been running absolutely intact ever since. I do agree with the interior trims failing in decade old Germans and mine is not an exception too. I have had the fuel lid actuator failing on me, a couple of broken window switches and the infamous AC vents.

Thanks in advance!

•Online insurance portals will not provide comprehensive coverage for 15 year old cars. But you can definitely insure your car offline.

•I do all my service at KR Auto Care, Coimbatore. I would highly recommend them. For AC services I highly recommend Sri Ambal Auto Works, Coimbatore.

•Regarding the interior quality it depends on the brand. The interiors on the Mercedes are still looking brand new, I kid you not. But the BMW's have deteriorated considerably.

I would post an update regarding the Pajero Sport shortly. I recently completed a 8,000 kms Leh trip in the Pajero Sport and I am happy to report that it has a been a touchwood so far.

[Tvk1991]

I too have a similar circumstances: We own a E84 BMW X1 20D and W213 E220D.

E84 X1 was purchased in 2012 and within 2017 we had an issue on the AC Compressor and BCM Module. The car was only maintained in showroom for the first 5 years.

Currently after 12 years the car has run about 1.8 lakh kms.

W213 220D was purchased in 2019 and in 2024 we have completed 1,00,000 kms but whatever electrical issues we faced in BMW (AC Compressor and Other electrical) were never occurred in our Benz.

We are planning to have these cars till 2,00,000 kms as the resale value on these are too less.

Congratulations on your Pajero Sport purchase and looking forward for your update and pics on the same.

[GT3]

I had been looking to purchase an SUV mainly for highway usage and some very basic off-roading (nothing hardcore). My purchase query thread can be found here - Used Mitsubishis : Pajero Sport vs Montero


The requirement and usage pattern:

1) Need imposing looks
2) Will be used primarily on the highway
3) Plan to start basic off roading
4) Budget- 15 lakhs
5) Will see a usage of 20000 kms per year
6) I am ok with waiting for parts but the vehicle has to be reliable

Rejected options:

1) Toyota Fortuner- too bumpy, bad brakes and over priced in the used market
2) Xuv500- looks not imposing enough but otherwise perfect
3) Pajero SFX- engine performance not enough
4) Old Safari- bad handling, questionable safety and niggles
5) Old Scorpio- already owned and find it too bumpy
6) Old Endeavour- too bumpy and low seats

After eliminating the above cars, the final standing contenders were the Pajero Sport 4x4, Montero and Endeavour 3.2. The idea was to get any car among these, whenever a good one shows up. A well maintained Montero was hard to find in the Tamil Nadu market. There were many options for the Endeavour 3.2, but surprisingly all were over-priced after Ford left our country. The over-pricing shows how competent the Endeavour really is. Then finally a single owner 2015 Pajero Sport 4x4 MT showed up which had run 1,20,000 kms with company service records, yes you read that right, there is still an authorised service centre in my place(Coimbatore). The vehicle was in excellent condition and I bought it in May 2024.

Shortly after the purchase I did a 8,000 kms round trip to Leh. It was great to experience the rugged nature of a BOF SUV after driving German sedans for a long time with their delicate nature.





Pros:

•Rugged and raw looking. Love the boxy shape.
•Good ride and handling balance.
•Good engine with excellent mid and top end. The growl of the engine is awesome.
•Acceptable fuel efficiency of 10 km/l for these class of vehicles.
•Super Select 4WD.
•Good VFM in the used market since no one other than enthusiasts purchase a Mitsubishi nowadays, but this will bite back at the time of resale. I got it for a price less than that of a base model Bolero.
•Excellent reliability.
•Built to take abuse. It is built very tough.
•Built to take cross country drives, no tiredness during our Leh trip, except for the dead pedal issue.
•There is still an authorised service centre in Coimbatore.
•Everyone gives way to a BOF SUV on our roads.
•Has got the basic safety features like ABS and 2 airbags.
•Good features for its time like reverse camera and sensor, bluetooth, electric driver seat, etc

Cons

•The low end is pathetic, I am looking to remap it.
•No service support in most cities. Maintaining a Mitsubishi is not everyone's cup of tea. There is a reason why they are such low priced in the used market.
•Service parts are priced at a considerable premium to that of the Fortuner.
•Body parts are obscenely priced and are very hard to source.
•The steering is extremely slow ratio, you have to keep turning it forever at low speeds.
•Slightly heavy clutch, but got used to it now.
•Space for the dead pedal is very low, your left leg will ache on long drives.
•No curtain airbags and ESP.
•No automatic central locking.

It has run 1,35,000 kms till now and it has been a wonderful experience. I recently changed the tyres to Apollo Apterra AT 2 and they are doing good, it's very good VFM for their price. Will update later after driving further.

[century]

Originally Posted by GT3

Cons

•The steering is extremely slow ratio, you have to keep turning it forever at low speeds.

Haha, truer words never said. Been daily driving PS 4x4 MT for city commutes and I hate everything apart from people giving way (including Thars).

[Sandy Damodaran]

Originally Posted by GT3

Then finally a single owner 2015 Pajero Sport 4x4 MT showed up which had run 1,20,000 kms with company service records, yes you read that right, there is still an authorised service centre in my place(Coimbatore). The vehicle was in excellent condition and I bought it in May 2024.

Shortly after the purchase I did a 8,000 kms round trip to Leh. It was great to experience the rugged nature of a BOF SUV after driving German sedans for a long time with their delicate nature.

Attachment 2660963

Attachment 2660964

This is so cool! I bought a pre owned vehicle for a similar reason, and have been enjoying it ever since! I got mine remapped, but the low end torque thing is something you will have to get used. Doesnt really
move like the fortune off the blocks.

For places like Ladak/Spiti where the lack of low end torque bothers me, I usually put it in 4 LLC and that solves it. Have a great time with the vehicle..

[GT3]

Originally Posted by century

Haha, truer words never said. Been daily driving PS 4x4 MT for city commutes and I hate everything apart from people giving way (including Thars).

Congrats on the Pajero Sport, from a fellow owner. I could not understand what you tried to convey, could you please explain in detail.

Originally Posted by Sandy Damodaran

This is so cool! I bought a pre owned vehicle for a similar reason, and have been enjoying it ever since! I got mine remapped, but the low end torque thing is something you will have to get used. Doesnt really
move like the fortune off the blocks.

Where did you get it remapped? Even after the remap is there no considerable improvement?

For places like Ladak/Spiti where the lack of low end torque bothers me, I usually put it in 4 LLC and that solves it. Have a great time with the vehicle..

But driving in LLC mode for a long time also is not recommended. Have to solve the low end issue somehow. In the plains the low end torque is not much of a hassle, as the mid range is good but it does warrant frequent gear changes. But it is definitely a major issue in the hills and it is really pathetic.

[century]

Originally Posted by GT3

Congrats on the Pajero Sport, from a fellow owner. I could not understand what you tried to convey, could you please explain in detail.

I use my Pajero Sport as a daily driver and my car do not touch 50kmph while driving to and from office to home. Steering rotation ratio is very low in Pajero Sport which very much pains me. Apart from people giving way to this butch SUV, I do not enjoy anything that my car offers while commuting in the city. It's big, have heavy steering, not nimble at slow speeds, can not park in tight spaces, very heavy clutch, body roll, have to climb to get inside and many of these issues are not present in any of the other cars in my family garage (Carens, Brio, Linea), even my other Pajero Sport is AT, so one less issue. And every other family member has called dibs to other cars and left this for me as I have sold Dzire AGS few months back.

Although Pajero Sport has excellent highway manners even better than Fortuner but I loathe to drive this in my traffic prone small city.

I think that should suffice your query.