Hyundai Verna CRDI VGT - Updated at 35k-km,40k-km, 55k-km,60k-km, Plus A Minor Crash

CrAzY dRiVeR · 12th January 2008, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rippergeo

@mobike, you should get peted, then you'll drive a lot more. it should cost you around 18000 for the viva CRDI which is a bargain.

Whats the figures for Accent CRDi+ Petes?

nawabnabeel · 13th January 2008, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellstar

If EPS is electronic Power Steering then no , only the i10's from the Hyundai Stable feature this type of power steering. All other Hundai cars feature hydraulic power steerings ...

If it was a typo and it was meant to be ESP , Electronic Stability Program , i still dont think it is there . But yeah Verna Sure could do with some of this progamming !

it wasn't a typo. i meant electronic power steering

14th January 2008, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Whats the figures for Accent CRDi+ Petes?

hey crazy, not sure what you mean, the stock accent crdi is pretty fast and has a good low end torque too. boost kicks in much earlier than a verna. always regretted selling the car before peteing it. sorry but dont know the performance figures for the accent + pete's

BUSA · 17th January 2008, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Whats the figures for Accent CRDi+ Petes?

Power from 82 to 98
Torque from 19 to 21KGM

HotChillyPepper · 17th January 2008, 01:41

I think you should drive both tyres on Verna before go in for a change. Ride quality and road noise is a very relative term, hence only you can decide your best suit. Try to ping some TBhpians in your city and get a test ride in their vehicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajands

Hi All,

After reading all the threads posted, i decided to go for the Verna CRDi ABS version, please do let me know which is the best tyre size 195 or 205 with R15 also, i found that the Petrol XXi version has all the featuers and is one lakh lesser than the CRDi with ABS which has very few features. Something when i asked the sales guy had no answer to this.

Regards,
Sajan

mobike008 · 17th January 2008, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSA

Torque from 19 to 21KGM

I think it cranks up the torque to 24kgm from 19kgm which are equal to stock torque figure of Verna VGT

BUSA · 17th January 2008, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobike008

I think it cranks up the torque to 24kgm from 19kgm which are equal to stock torque figure of Verna VGT

No, not 24 but around 22 on stage 2 setting. Drifter had a Peted Accent, you can check with him.

rrnsss · 17th January 2008, 15:06

After looking at this thread , I feel I need to start saving up for my Box to add on to my "soon to be" - ride , Getz Crdi.

Not that I will ever use it, but I am sure knowing that I have the punch when I need it will put a smile on my face when I drive

hellstar · 19th January 2008, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrnsss

After looking at this thread , I feel I need to start saving up for my Box to add on to my "soon to be" - ride , Getz Crdi.

Not that I will ever use it, but I am sure knowing that I have the punch when I need it will put a smile on my face when I drive

Yep , i agree fully , i think the Getz CRDi and the Verna CRDi by virtue of the same engines share the same version of the Petes Box , its stated so on the Petes website also !

Oh my god A pete'd Getz CRDI now thats a Monster ! do put in your report when you get your wheels pete'd

Off topic:I have always been a fan of your Judo 4x4 adventures

rrnsss · 19th January 2008, 09:58

Even though Getz does not warrant a petes upgrade, it is too good an experiment to abstain from, if you know what I mean. Sadly, I need to hold off on the mag wheels.

Hellstar: Thank you for your kind compliment. After I get my Getz, the Judo is going to be a purely recreational vehicle for me. Just for my trips to the forest.

sameel · 19th January 2008, 23:14

i have some bad news to guys using the box. But no use in telling it now. once fixed nothing can be done to change it. those who are planning . better refrain from it . i am a CRS engineer working in Robert Bosch. my job is to write the injection code for CRS engines with VGT and FGT.

jaibir · 20th January 2008, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameel

i have some bad news to guys using the box. But no use in telling it now. once fixed nothing can be done to change it. those who are planning . better refrain from it . i am a CRS engineer working in Robert Bosch. my job is to write the injection code for CRS engines with VGT and FGT.

could you provide some more details? are you referring to some specific engines?

nawabnabeel · 20th January 2008, 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameel

i have some bad news to guys using the box. But no use in telling it now. once fixed nothing can be done to change it. those who are planning . better refrain from it . i am a CRS engineer working in Robert Bosch. my job is to write the injection code for CRS engines with VGT and FGT.

if you could explain it then it would be helpful

sameel · 20th January 2008, 14:18

i work for Common Rail Systems .hence CRS. see in Crdi engines .. a set of 5 injections take place .. a combination of pilot(PiI) and main(MiI) and post(PoI) injections. There are three pilot and one main and 3 post injections.. so a combination like Pi1 , Pi3, MiI and PoI1, PoI3 etc is possible. its too technical. but in short . MiI and PoI1.. gives torque.. whereas pilot is for smoothening the combustion and other post injections is for regeneration..(for effecient burning..emission regulation). Now what all Power Box do is do a dynamic-real time remapping of injections. Meaning the pilot and main injection and post injections get altered... the cylinder tolerance say .001% meaning 400cc capacity can be actually 399.999cc or 400.001cc. Depending on Fuel temp, density and etc..lots of stuff the Start of Injection (SOI) and Start of Energization (SOE) of the solenoid or peizo valve in the injectors are decided by the ECU depending on preset factory conditions. while the Box takes over certain control of the ECU .while the Core functions are being run from the ECU. so in effect . we change the injection pattern not bothering about other components in the engine..fuel filter. CP3 pump control. MEun or PCV or CPC ..
i hope you guys do know RAil pressure is very high in CRDi engines.. the rail pressure is maintained in three modes. Metering unit [MeUn] or Pressure controlled Valve [PCV] or Coupled Pressure Control [CPC] both [MeUn], PCV is used in combination in CPC.
the Box doesn't give a **** of how these things are affected .See dude A to Z in the car is controlled the ECU[brain of the car]. The engine is the heart of the car. We can remap the ECU. But yu will need to change the PUMP, FUEL FILTER , ALL SENSORS , etc etc to make it all match.
MEANING IN SHORT YOU JUST GOT YOUR ENGINE FRIED. And yes coming to the turbo charging. FGT is better off coz its fixed geometry more of mechanicall controll but FGT will be in for some harsh time.its controlled again by ECU ..the thing is like this say the VGT is expecting X volume of air as intake in normal case. What happens is Y amount will come in and VGT will be able to handle it . only if Y is less than maximum that is allowed .and hope its clear more torque and power will give in higher amount of air as intake to turbo!!!(whether it exceeds th maximum is dependent ON POWER GENERATED. The decision on whether to let in that much air to turbo is dependent on ECU .. may be THE BOX DEALS WITH IT(override ECU decision)...BUT THE VGT WILL HAVE PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS!!!!!)while in FGT only X amount can go through the intake. So no use in getting Y amount of air..but yes THE RUNNING ENVIRONMENT OF THE FGT BECOMES MORE HARSH !!!

SO BE PREPARED WITH THE TURBO TO GO NUTS. Swift should be less affected its got a FGT . poor verna guys .VGT will be screwed. Dont even think of replacing VGT ..it costs a Bomb!!!..FGT is less than half th price of a VGT AND STILL WE ARE seeing a figure of 50-70k for normal after market turbo..just for FGT..
ok now the short version ... hehe ..

main difference that occurs when box is fixed is the following ..torque and BHP for specific RPM gets altered . .
two generations of Engine Diesel Control are used in india EDC15 , EDC16 ,
latest cars use EDC17 ..

EDC15 - speed[engine Rpm] based.
EDC16, EDC17 - torque based..

all calculations are done on above requirement
for Eg.
say AC needs 20NM of torque for functioning. in EDC15 - engine speed increases.
in EDC16, 17 .torque increases at same RPM by altering injection to produce more torque.
all these calculations depend on the factory set conditions. so in a Peted car.
say total torque..in normal condition is 200NM .. all the calculations are done by ECU such tht maximum torque is total 200NM ..now in peted car .. 260NM is produced .and the ECU will go nuts coz no matter what algorithm it runs total torque is exceeding the set value.. but no prob TH BOX IS TAKING CARE OF ALL ANOMALIES THAT ARISE IN THE ECU DUE TO THIS EXTRA POWER AND TORQUE , BUT IT CANT TAKE CARE OF THE PUMP!!!! ..and for that matter all the PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS OF COMPONENTS IN THE ENGINE..!!simple maths ..
consider a pump is designed to deliver a max of 1600BAR .. but is supposed to run most of the time in 1000-1200 BAR ..after peted , it will run most of the time supplying 1400-1600BAR to the common rail .. meaning PUMP will be taking a beating now a days ..
hope this much explanation is enough..anyways i am kinda sure ..you guys will be nuts after reading this ..loll
happy riding guys..drive safe ..
BESIDES THOSE WHO DO THE PETE STUFF WILL SELL OFF TH CAR ONCE PROBS START SHOWING UP..SO TILL THEN ENJOY YOUR RIDE..
peace out!!

P.S. this message was my reply to a message in my PM inbox. took it just like that and pasted it over here.

Akshay1234 · 20th January 2008, 16:10

sameel - then how come some people have had tuning boxes for years but not a single thing has gone wrong?

17th January 2008, 15:06	#83
rrnsss BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 397 Thanked: 346 Times	After looking at this thread , I feel I need to start saving up for my Box to add on to my "soon to be" - ride , Getz Crdi. Not that I will ever use it, but I am sure knowing that I have the punch when I need it will put a smile on my face when I drive
	() Thanks

19th January 2008, 09:58	#85
rrnsss BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 397 Thanked: 346 Times	Even though Getz does not warrant a petes upgrade, it is too good an experiment to abstain from, if you know what I mean. Sadly, I need to hold off on the mag wheels. Hellstar: Thank you for your kind compliment. After I get my Getz, the Judo is going to be a purely recreational vehicle for me. Just for my trips to the forest.
	() Thanks

19th January 2008, 23:14	#86
sameel BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: cochin Posts: 268 Thanked: 3 Times	i have some bad news to guys using the box. But no use in telling it now. once fixed nothing can be done to change it. those who are planning . better refrain from it . i am a CRS engineer working in Robert Bosch. my job is to write the injection code for CRS engines with VGT and FGT.
	() Thanks

20th January 2008, 14:18	#89
sameel BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: cochin Posts: 268 Thanked: 3 Times	i work for Common Rail Systems .hence CRS. see in Crdi engines .. a set of 5 injections take place .. a combination of pilot(PiI) and main(MiI) and post(PoI) injections. There are three pilot and one main and 3 post injections.. so a combination like Pi1 , Pi3, MiI and PoI1, PoI3 etc is possible. its too technical. but in short . MiI and PoI1.. gives torque.. whereas pilot is for smoothening the combustion and other post injections is for regeneration..(for effecient burning..emission regulation). Now what all Power Box do is do a dynamic-real time remapping of injections. Meaning the pilot and main injection and post injections get altered... the cylinder tolerance say .001% meaning 400cc capacity can be actually 399.999cc or 400.001cc. Depending on Fuel temp, density and etc..lots of stuff the Start of Injection (SOI) and Start of Energization (SOE) of the solenoid or peizo valve in the injectors are decided by the ECU depending on preset factory conditions. while the Box takes over certain control of the ECU .while the Core functions are being run from the ECU. so in effect . we change the injection pattern not bothering about other components in the engine..fuel filter. CP3 pump control. MEun or PCV or CPC .. i hope you guys do know RAil pressure is very high in CRDi engines.. the rail pressure is maintained in three modes. Metering unit [MeUn] or Pressure controlled Valve [PCV] or Coupled Pressure Control [CPC] both [MeUn], PCV is used in combination in CPC. the Box doesn't give a **** of how these things are affected .See dude A to Z in the car is controlled the ECU[brain of the car]. The engine is the heart of the car. We can remap the ECU. But yu will need to change the PUMP, FUEL FILTER , ALL SENSORS , etc etc to make it all match. MEANING IN SHORT YOU JUST GOT YOUR ENGINE FRIED. And yes coming to the turbo charging. FGT is better off coz its fixed geometry more of mechanicall controll but FGT will be in for some harsh time.its controlled again by ECU ..the thing is like this say the VGT is expecting X volume of air as intake in normal case. What happens is Y amount will come in and VGT will be able to handle it . only if Y is less than maximum that is allowed .and hope its clear more torque and power will give in higher amount of air as intake to turbo!!!(whether it exceeds th maximum is dependent ON POWER GENERATED. The decision on whether to let in that much air to turbo is dependent on ECU .. may be THE BOX DEALS WITH IT(override ECU decision)...BUT THE VGT WILL HAVE PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS!!!!!)while in FGT only X amount can go through the intake. So no use in getting Y amount of air..but yes THE RUNNING ENVIRONMENT OF THE FGT BECOMES MORE HARSH !!! SO BE PREPARED WITH THE TURBO TO GO NUTS. Swift should be less affected its got a FGT . poor verna guys .VGT will be screwed. Dont even think of replacing VGT ..it costs a Bomb!!!..FGT is less than half th price of a VGT AND STILL WE ARE seeing a figure of 50-70k for normal after market turbo..just for FGT.. ok now the short version ... hehe .. main difference that occurs when box is fixed is the following ..torque and BHP for specific RPM gets altered . . two generations of Engine Diesel Control are used in india EDC15 , EDC16 , latest cars use EDC17 .. EDC15 - speed[engine Rpm] based. EDC16, EDC17 - torque based.. all calculations are done on above requirement for Eg. say AC needs 20NM of torque for functioning. in EDC15 - engine speed increases. in EDC16, 17 .torque increases at same RPM by altering injection to produce more torque. all these calculations depend on the factory set conditions. so in a Peted car. say total torque..in normal condition is 200NM .. all the calculations are done by ECU such tht maximum torque is total 200NM ..now in peted car .. 260NM is produced .and the ECU will go nuts coz no matter what algorithm it runs total torque is exceeding the set value.. but no prob TH BOX IS TAKING CARE OF ALL ANOMALIES THAT ARISE IN THE ECU DUE TO THIS EXTRA POWER AND TORQUE , BUT IT CANT TAKE CARE OF THE PUMP!!!! ..and for that matter all the PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS OF COMPONENTS IN THE ENGINE..!!simple maths .. consider a pump is designed to deliver a max of 1600BAR .. but is supposed to run most of the time in 1000-1200 BAR ..after peted , it will run most of the time supplying 1400-1600BAR to the common rail .. meaning PUMP will be taking a beating now a days .. hope this much explanation is enough..anyways i am kinda sure ..you guys will be nuts after reading this ..loll happy riding guys..drive safe .. BESIDES THOSE WHO DO THE PETE STUFF WILL SELL OFF TH CAR ONCE PROBS START SHOWING UP..SO TILL THEN ENJOY YOUR RIDE.. peace out!! P.S. this message was my reply to a message in my PM inbox. took it just like that and pasted it over here.
	() Thanks

20th January 2008, 16:10	#90
Akshay1234 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,265 Thanked: 12,317 Times	sameel - then how come some people have had tuning boxes for years but not a single thing has gone wrong?
	() Thanks