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Old 27th February 2018, 13:21   #3001
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
  1. Is adding engine oil to fuel tank a regular practice? Or is it better to add the diesel additives?
  2. Any suggestions for additives?
  3. Does Swift diesel need timing chain replacement?
  4. How often does turbo fail and any obvious signs?
My Swift VDi ran for about 2.5 lakh kms.

1- I'd go with diesel additives like Liqui Moli
3- Chain doesn't need a replacement, it has the same life as the engine. I never got mine changed.
4- Smoke and reduced pick-up.

Over to Jaggu now
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Old 27th February 2018, 13:51   #3002
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
1- I'd go with diesel additives like Liqui Moli
3- Chain doesn't need a replacement, it has the same life as the engine. I never got mine changed.
4- Smoke and reduced pick-up.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Will add the Liqui Moli. Is this one one you meant?

Given that the white smoke is no longer there and the black smoke is only the usual on hard acceleration, is it safe to assume there is no turbo issue?

Also, given the symptoms I described, do you agree with the diagnosis of water in injector?
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Old 27th February 2018, 13:53   #3003
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Thanks for the quick reply.

Will add the Liqui Moli. Is this one one you meant?

Given that the white smoke is no longer there and the black smoke is only the usual on hard acceleration, is it safe to assume there is no turbo issue?

Also, given the symptoms I described, do you agree with the diagnosis of water in injector?
Yes, this is the one. And turbo looks alright to me.

I am not too sure about the water injector issue, will let Jaggu respond to that one.
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:13   #3004
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I am not too sure about the water injector issue, will let Jaggu respond to that one.
Update on the white smoke issue:

While the smoke has not reappeared and neither has the starting trouble; the tankful to tankful average has dropped down to 6kmpl. Any pointers to why this would happen?

The regular average has been in the 11-12 kmpl range over the last 2 years. This is in heavy Linking road traffic in Bombay only (~45 min for 6 kms). Diesel is only ever filled from the same COCO pump in Kandivali.

Have added the Liqui Moly Diesel additive today morning to one tankful of diesel.

A couple of additional/preventive maintenance items I have been contemplating:
  1. Replace all rubber hoses.
  2. Clean the intercooler.
  3. Check brakes.
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:22   #3005
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Update on the white smoke issue:

While the smoke has not reappeared and neither has the starting trouble; the tankful to tankful average has dropped down to 6kmpl. Any pointers to why this would happen?

The regular average has been in the 11-12 kmpl range over the last 2 years
Check the clutch and turbo. The turbo failure may cause dropin mileage and reduced pick up . Are you getting the turbo kick around 2000 rpm?
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:26   #3006
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by archat68 View Post
Check the clutch and turbo. The turbo failure may cause dropin mileage and reduced pick up . Are you getting the turbo kick around 2000 rpm?
Clutch was replaced ~20k kms ago. Will need to drive the car to check the turbo kick, as the wife or her driver usually drive the car.

Also, will look at replacing the hoses before replacing turbo. Was reading that leaky hoses can be a cause too.

Last edited by varunsangal : 6th March 2018 at 10:27. Reason: Added text.
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:30   #3007
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

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Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Clutch was replaced ~20k kms ago. Will need to drive the car to check the turbo kick, as the wife or her driver usually drive the car.
Turbo boost can be measured by MASS by hooking up the SDT and driving the car. Get it checked by them.
Clutch should not fail within 20k km but again drive the car yourself and check for any slippage.
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:45   #3008
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
My 2008 Swift Diesel VDi, done ~148k Kms faced some starting problem yesterday.
======
After cranking for 5-10 min, the engine kicked into life throwing a lot of white smoke. The smoke stopped after 5 min and hasn't been seen since.

Checked the error codes at my FNG, one code shown in history was for injector blocked and latest for water in fuel filter.[/list]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Over to Jaggu now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I am not too sure about the water injector issue, will let Jaggu respond to that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Update on the white smoke issue:

While the smoke has not reappeared and neither has the starting trouble; the tankful to tankful average has dropped down to 6kmpl. Any pointers to why this would happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by archat68 View Post
Turbo boost can be measured by MASS by hooking up the SDT and driving the car. Get it checked by them.
Clutch should not fail within 20k km but again drive the car yourself and check for any slippage.
148k is a lot of kilometers, i would suggest you to it to a MASS with access to good tools and technicians and give the engine a complete service. Start with filters, air & fuel and if needed replace the same, drain and clean the fuel tank also. Do check the intercooler and get it cleaned, that will show if there is excess oil consumption or leak through the turbo. Finally you would need to check the injector working and any other error codes that has popped up. Injector through put can be measured, if there is major drop in performance of the injectors then would need service or replacement. If it is minor dip due to usage, couple of rounds of injector cleaners should get is sorted.

6 KMPL is too low a figure and definitely needs looking into. Since there is no dip in performance otherwise, chances of clutch and brakes gone bad is remote.
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:56   #3009
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Start with filters, air & fuel and if needed replace the same, drain and clean the fuel tank also.
Thanks, will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Do check the intercooler and get it cleaned, that will show if there is excess oil consumption or leak through the turbo.
Was thinking of replacing all hoses and cleaning intercooler at the FNG. Do you think the intercooler is better cleaned at MASS? My concern with MASS is that they don't do half the jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Finally you would need to check the injector...
The error code for injector was shown in history at FNG, but didn't reappear after clearing the codes. Could it still be an issue?

Question: Does decarbonizing the engine help? Have never done a decarb on the engine, except once at 30k kms when MASS did without asking me.
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Old 6th March 2018, 13:09   #3010
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Was thinking of replacing all hoses and cleaning intercooler at the FNG. Do you think the intercooler is better cleaned at MASS? My concern with MASS is that they don't do half the jobs.
First and foremost is identification of the real issue, that any competent garage (MASS or FNG) should be able to. Intercooler cleaning is relatively simple job, more importantly checking how much oil has collected inside is the key to figuring out if the turbo is ok or not.

Quote:
The error code for injector was shown in history at FNG, but didn't reappear after clearing the codes. Could it still be an issue?
If it is intermittent issue then one has to wait and watch for the codes to reappear.

Quote:
Question: Does decarbonizing the engine help? Have never done a decarb on the engine, except once at 30k kms when MASS did without asking me.
There is lot of content on decarb and it has a mixed review with regards to outcome. I would rather work on figuring out reasons for low FE before going on this route, also rule out any issues with injectors, turbo etc.

Is the engine consuming oil? Minor drop is normal for these engines, but if it is more than 1 liter per 1000 kms, then needs further diagnosis.

Again my advice try to seek advice from our members or a reliable garage contact near to you and start with from the scratch diagnosis of what is the real cause of low FE / starting issue episode that happened.
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Old 6th March 2018, 13:24   #3011
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
First and foremost is identification of the real issue, that any competent garage (MASS or FNG) should be able to...

...start with from the scratch diagnosis of what is the real cause of low FE / starting issue episode that happened.
Okay thanks. Will start step by step:
  1. Check air filter, oil filter, fuel filter.
  2. Drain/clean the fuel tank.
  3. Clean intercooler.
  4. Check clean injectors. (Any recommended injector cleaner additives?)

If above does not clear up the issue, then look at the expensive stuff like timing chain replacement and/or turbo leakage, hose pipes replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Is the engine consuming oil? Minor drop is normal for these engines, but if it is more than 1 liter per 1000 kms, then needs further diagnosis.
Haven't seen a high engine oil consumption so far. Possibly a drop of ~20-25% over 10k kms as of last service.
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Old 3rd April 2018, 16:07   #3012
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
1. ...checking how much oil has collected inside is the key to figuring out if the turbo is ok or not.

2. If it is intermittent issue then one has to wait and watch for the codes to reappear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
  1. Check air filter, oil filter, fuel filter.
  2. Drain/clean the fuel tank.
  3. Clean intercooler.
  4. Check clean injectors. (Any recommended injector cleaner additives?)
Have checked the various filters and cleaned the intercooler (largely clean) and EGR valve (not totally blocked) over the last 2 weeks or so. Still need to visit MASS for injector inspection etc.

Result:
1. Slightly increased pick up.
2. Slightly improved FE, first tankful was 12kmpl, however current tankful looks like ~8kmpl (will visit petrol bunk today evening).

Problem reappeared:

1. FE has not improved too much.
2. Last evening the engine cranked, threw a lot of white smoke, shuddered and turned off. Cranked normally and ran absolutely normally 5 min later.

What could be the cause of the white smoke and shudder? Is there oil leaking into the cylinder?
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Old 3rd April 2018, 16:48   #3013
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
What could be the cause of the white smoke and shudder? Is there oil leaking into the cylinder?
White smoke in diesel engines is un-burned fuel maybe due to bad injection or combustion. If it has blue tinge? then it means oil is getting burned. Or it can be water contamination from head gasket.

You can check the coolant tank and see if there is any signs of oil mixing in the tank to quickly rule out water contamination.

I would suggest taking it to a good authorised workshop and get it checked, sometimes when you drive the car with such symptoms, the issues gets compounded and can look at large bills, if not attended ie.
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Old 3rd April 2018, 19:16   #3014
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
White smoke in diesel engines is un-burned fuel maybe due to bad injection or combustion. If it has blue tinge? then it means oil is getting burned. Or it can be water contamination from head gasket.

You can check the coolant tank and see if there is any signs of oil mixing in the tank to quickly rule out water contamination.

I would suggest taking it to a good authorised workshop and get it checked, sometimes when you drive the car with such symptoms, the issues gets compounded and can look at large bills, if not attended ie.
Thanks for your prompt response as always Jaggu Sir.

Unfortunately the two episodes of white smoke happened when i was not with the car, so can't say if there was a blue tinge.

Will check the coolant again. It didn't look mixed with oil when it was drained about 2 weeks ago.

But agree it is high time I had an authorized workshop look at it. Will do so over the weekend.
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Old 25th June 2018, 08:53   #3015
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Default Re: Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
...I am not too sure about the water injector issue, will let Jaggu respond to that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...I would suggest taking it to a good authorised workshop and get it checked, sometimes when you drive the car with such symptoms, the issues gets compounded and can look at large bills, if not attended ie.
Longish and rambling post... Intent is to update and thank Jaggu and Eddy.

Post the last interaction, the possible compounding of issues mentioned by Jaggu seemed prophetic as the car kept failing to start every other day. The primary cause was a blown fuse.

This caused me to replace injectors and a few associated parts and then finally the ECM. The bill for both came to an eye watering 30k INR and 1 month without the car.

Root cause for faulty ECM is the rusted cowl panel replaced ~3 months ago. It is galling that a part that costs 650 INR, eventually cost me some 50,000 INR and caused me to sell my car. All because MASS mechanics can't be bothered to look under the hood and advice preventive maintenance.
The car ran fine post the ECM replacement, however turbo boost etc was still not up to the mark. The 1 month down time caused me to rethink my options as the reliability factor went down for me (the swift is wife's daily drive) and associated costs. While I would ideally have liked to hang on to the car for another 2-3 years and ~50k kms, have now gone in for a lateral upgrade to a pre-owned Honda City.

As I have said goodbye to my first car and 150,000 kms of memories, would like to thank Jaggu and Eddy for all the guidance they have extended over the last few months of ownership. A thank you to my partner in crime pm25264, who nursed the car during the 1 month of downtime, running around and stalling all over Navi Mumbai with the car. Also, last but not the least, pm25264's better half for allowing him so much time to nurse the car.
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