[Ice]

Originally Posted by architect

Hmm... I read that mail you wrote to Mangesh on PUG. I know it's a niggle but an irritating one at that. All the best, I am sure once they change those parts, this will not happen as this is not happenning on other cars so its clearly not a feature.

Architect, thank you. I'm just setting off on a Bangalore-Tirunelveli-Bangalore weekend trip. Will most probably get the car fixed once I get back.

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by jagan0677

I have my MJD insured with Royal Sundaram. I had to get the headlamp replaced and the bumper repaired in November. I just had to pay Rs 500 out of a total 15k bill. According to the SA, since my car was with Royal Sundaram, i didnt have to pay 50% on the headlamp cost. With most other insurers, this would have been the case.
Apparently, this is because Sundaram treats motorised headlamps as metal,as against others who consider them as plastic/fibre.

Cheers

PS: I think you should put up a review on your experience of a year.

SA=Sundaram Automobiles, right?

In Chennai, I had my insurance with RS and my car used to get serviced at SA. I did do a few claims, they adjusted quite a few things in the claims. I guess more than anything its the SA and RS relationship because of being part of the same group.

P.S: Used to work with TAFE (extended group company again)

[Ice]

I've used this thread to extensively document my problems with Forza's AC getting iced over. There was a part that was supposed to be delivered on April 10th, which has since disappeared from Prerana. I'll let my emails to Magesh Kodalkar relate the latest turn of events. Suffice to say I'm currently a little irritated.

Rangu Subrahmanyam Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:57 PM To: Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com
Cc: service@fiapl.com
Car Details:
Reg. No.: *********
Reg. Name: **************
Km. Run: 11,200
Period of Problem: 1st Service at 1,450 km. to date

Dear Mr. Kodalkar,

I hope this email finds you well.

I am the proud owner of an October 2008 Fiat Palio Multijet SDX. For the last 3 months, I have had an issue with the air-conditioning which Prerana Motors on Old Madras Road, Bangalore, have not been able to solve.

When running for over an hour continuously, the AC unit gets iced over. The cooling and throw function properly till this point in time. Then, the throw reduces considerably, and the little air being thrown out is also not cooled. To fix the problem temporarily, I have to then turn off the compressor by pressing the Compressor switch to 'off' position. Once I do this, the throw gradually improves over 5 minutes, after which a splash of water falls near the clutch pedal (and normally on my foot).The water serves as a sign for me to turn the compressor back on. The AC then cools and throws to normal standards for a further 20 minutes or so, after which I repeat the de-icing process.

It is clear that there is an issue with the Airconditoner in my car. This issue has cropped up only after my first service. The Service Advisers at Prerana Motors have tried to fix the problem four times! The first time was a few days after the 1st service. The second was a week after that. The third was during the 2nd service at 7,500 km. The fourth time Prerana had a chance to fix the problem was last week (Tuesday 24th March). When I complained to the Service Advisers at Prerana on the 24th, they promised to fix the problem if I left the car with them for a day, which I did. The car was returned to me on the evening of the 24th, with a promise that the problem had been rectified by tightening a loose wire in the thermostat. This has not worked, and the problem persists. Now, Prerana have finally agreed to change the Thermostat and Expansion Valve, but unfortunately the part is not available and will take at least 10 days to arrive in Bangalore.

I don't see why I have to wait for 3 months to get something fixed under warranty. With the new image that your service is projecting, I trusted Fiat enough to put down my hard-earned money on the Palio, much against my family's advice. I do hope that you and Fiat will vindicate my decision to buy the Palio and suggest an immediate redressal of this problem. My contact details are mentioned below

Ranganathan Subrahmanyam - ***** *****
Cooke Town, Bangalore

Thank you.

Your sincerely,
Ranganathan

Mangesh Kodalkar <Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com> Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:52 AM To: Rangu Subrahmanyam <********@gmail.com>
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your communication, we are sorry to note on the concern mentioned & apologies for the inconvenience caused to you, we have coordinated the matter on priority for update from dealership through our distributor Tata Motors, we assure you best possible back up is rendered to resolve concerns at the earliest, you will be hearing shortly, till then we request to please bear with us.

Thanking you for you cooperation & assuring you of our best services at all times

With warm regards,
Mangesh Kodalkar
Manager -Customer Services
Fiat India
B 19 Ranjangaon MIDC Industrial Area
Taluka -Shirur
Dist: Pune 412210
Maharashtra
India
+91 2138 672764
Fax +91 2138 672800.



Rangu Subrahmanyam [mailto*****@*****]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:58 PM
To: Mangesh Kodalkar
Cc: Service
Subject: AC Trouble - Fiat Palio MJD





Rangu Subrahmanyam <*******@gmail.com> Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:32 AM To: Mangesh Kodalkar <Mangesh.Kodalkar@fiapl.com>
Dear Mr. Kodalkar,

It has been 22 days since your previous email to me, and I still have not heard back from Fiat. In the meanwhile, the problem with my Fiat Palio's AC has not yet been fixed.

On March 30th, Prerana Motors (via Mr.Zaakir, Service Adviser) placed an order for a new thermostat and expansion valve for my car. Their promise was to change this under warranty, and they said the part would reach them in 10 days. All this has been communicated to you in my earlier email to you.

So, I called Prerana up on April 10th, and the part had still not arrived. I called them everyday after that, until April 16th. On April 16th - more than 15 days after they claimed to have placed the order for the part - Mr.Zaakir informed me that they had received the part. When I told him that I would be dropping the car off
on the 17th, Mr.Zaakir advised me to wait until the car was due for its 3rd (15,000 km.) service. so that the part replacement and the service could be done simultaneously. When I raised a question about the part being fixed on another vehicle in the meanwhile, Mr.Zaakir insisted that nothing of the sort would happen as the part had my car's number on the order form.

Yesterday (April 21st), I called Prerana to book my car for service on the 24th, which is later this week. The service appointment was confirmed, whereupon I asked for Mr.Zaakir in order to re-confirm the availability of the thermostat and expansion valve part. Mr.Zaakir was unwell and therefore absent, but I was put on to Mr.Sundar. Sundar claimed that the part meant for my vehicle had been fixed on another vehicle, and a fresh part would take a further 10 days!
I spoke to Mr.Zaakir today (after his return from sick leave) and expressed my disappointment at this turn of events. He has promised to "take care of it", and asked me to leave the car for service on the 24th as planned. What does that mean? Is Prerana going to remove a part from another Palio and fix it on mine?

I am nearing a point where I am regretting trusting Fiat service and buying this car. My main issues are:

1. No one had any idea what the problem with my car was when I took it in for the problem in the first place.
2. Parts take 10days to reach a major service center in a major city.
3. There is absolutely no coordination between the Service Advisers and the workshop/parts storage, or for that matter between the Service Advisers themselves!
4. Its been nearly 10,000 km. and 4 months and my car still has not been fixed.
5. I still haven't heard back from you on an email that I sent to you 3 weeks ago!

Get in touch with me and fix this issue in 48 hrs or I sell my car.

Yours,
Ranganathan

[krish3]

This is extremely bad from FIAT's part. It seems they arent much concerned about Palio owners and seems to be reserving their best for Linea owners.

If the trend of bad servicing continues, then there is only one way for FIAT and that is certainly not up.

I really know how bad it feels for any owner to have long lingering problems in thei cars.

[MileCruncher]

Ice, I understand your feeling as I had been in a similar position with them once. But the stinker that you sent should take care of the issue. I had got my problem solved apart getting 1 complimentary fully paid service under goodwill even when my car was outside warranty. I suggest you hold a little while more. Btw is Prerana an erstwhile Fiat Dealer or a TATA convert ?

[Ice]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Ice, I understand your feeling as I had been in a similar position with them once. But the stinker that you sent should take care of the issue. I had got my problem solved apart getting 1 complimentary fully paid service under goodwill even when my car was outside warranty. I suggest you hold a little while more. Btw is Prerana an erstwhile Fiat Dealer or a TATA convert ?

Prerana is an involuntary convert, in my opinion. Their sales division didnt seem overly enthusiastic about selling me a fiat in the first place, which is why I went to VST Motors in Chennai. However, their Service Advisors aim to please - its just a confused environment at their service center, as Tata gets first preference (understandbly so). To my knowledge, they have 2 Fiat-specific SA's at their Old Madras Road branch.

My two cents worth: if Fiat is really serious about the Indian market, they should invest in exclusive dealerships and service centers.

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by Ice

Prerana is an involuntary convert, in my opinion. Their sales division didnt seem overly enthusiastic about selling me a fiat in the first place, which is why I went to VST Motors in Chennai. However, their Service Advisors aim to please - its just a confused environment at their service center, as Tata gets first preference (understandbly so). To my knowledge, they have 2 Fiat-specific SA's at their Old Madras Road branch.

My two cents worth: if Fiat is really serious about the Indian market, they should invest in exclusive dealerships and service centers.

Try out a Fiat dealer in B'lore who converted to Tata Fiat. Believe their mechanics will be much better off solving their problem as they have experience handling issues with Fiats and know what to do when spares dont arrive in time

[jagan0677]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

SA=Sundaram Automobiles, right?

In Chennai, I had my insurance with RS and my car used to get serviced at SA. I did do a few claims, they adjusted quite a few things in the claims. I guess more than anything its the SA and RS relationship because of being part of the same group.

P.S: Used to work with TAFE (extended group company again)

By SA, I meant Service Advisor.

[Ice]

What with keeping myself employed and keeping the missus happy, it feels like ages since I've posted something on this thread.

Forza's completed 20,000 km (catching up with you, Architect!) recently, and chalked down quite a few long trips along the way:

1. Bangalore - Thirunelveli X 2
2. Bangalore - Madras X 8
3. Bangalore - Kumbakonam - Madras - Bangalore X 1
4. Bangalore - Mysore X 2


A few hitches along the way:

Air-conditioning
The expansion valve on the thermostat was changed at 18,500 km. to fix the icing problem that I've mentioned earlier in this thread. Prerana on OMR did the job for me in a day, and the AC was cooling spectacularly after the refit.

Then came the second of the Bangalore - Thirunelveli trips, a week after the refit. We left Bangalore around 5.30 AM, and were at Krishnagiri by 6.45 AM. I switched the AC on, and was greted by a blast of warm air. The afore-mentioned spectacular cooling became a fond, distant memory, and reality set in with a scorcher of a day and 500+ km. still to be covered.

I got on the 'phone with Karthik, who is the new Works Manager at Prerana and explained the situation heatedly, whereupon he promised to get me some help at A.R.A.S.P.V.P.V Thirunelveli. Reached Thirunelveli by 4 PM sweaty and dusty and drove straight to the workshop only to find out that it was not Fiat-authorized. The mechanic still took a look and said that he couldn't help. Parked Forza at my grandfather's house and commandered his '72 Amby. (FUN!)

Stopped at A.R.A.S.P.V.P.V Madurai on the way back to Bangalore, and these guys hooked a machine up and emptied and refilled the AC gas. Voila! Cooling was back with a bang! Drove back to Bangalore, only for the AC to morph into a mere fan while crossing Krishnagiri. Interestingly, the icing problem showed up again, leading me to believe that the expansion valve change did not solve anything in the first place! Called Karthik again and dropped Forza off at Prerana OMR on the way home.

Tests showed that the compressor was performing off the charts, delivering a grill temperature of -10*C (the norm is 2 or 3* C). This excess cooling is not necessarily good, according to Fiat (and my wife, who dresses up like she's visiting family in Tibet every time we set off for an air-conditioned long journey). A new compressor was procured from Fiat Pune, along with another new expansion valve. This took 4 working days. The AC work was completed under warranty, and not a pence was charged for it. Now the car's back and the AC seems to be working fine. Taking her to Madras this weekend, praying that the ghost in the machine has been exorcised for good!

Got the 22,500 (4th) service done while the car was waiting for the new compressor. It was a paid service, and set me back by Rs.2,608/-. The oil and oil filter were changed, and all other fluids were checked and refilled. The brakes were checked out, and found to be in great shape too.

Tires...why????
The blokes at Prerana have not been rotating and balancing the tires. As a result, there is uneven wear on the inner edges of the two front tires. Noticed this one day when the car parked on an incline and I was walking towards her. Took her straight to Shankar Enterprises, a Good Year place on New BEL road. They fixed the alignment, rotated the tires (both on the wheels and directionally), and balanced out all four. But the damage is done, and I am reminded of this every time I see what is now the outer edges of the two rear tires.

Seats and Rattling
The seats (light beige, and designed to be treated with extra special care) got the staining of their lifetime when we drove to Thirunelveli and the AC packed up. We sweated quite freely, and the seats took the brunt of it. Also, the guys at Prerana were a little lax while fixing the AC up, and seem to have got in with their grease-stained overalls. All this built a case for seat covers, and I picked a set of G-Sport covers (black with beige trim) from Car Trendz in Frazer Town. Happy with them so far - pictures will follow soon.

I was troubled by incessant rattling whenever I had rear passengers. Approached the problem with a D-I-Y mindset, and fixed it. Follow these steps; they worked for me:
1. Line the two backrest locks for the rear seat with two layers of rubber insulation tape.
2. Line the rod holding the parcel shelf in place with two layers of rubber insulation tape
3. Place a tightly folded newspaper between the metal back of the rear seat and each of the rear struts that extend into the boot area. I realized that the play in the backrest locks for rear seats made the rear seat back come into contact with rear struts (the gap at standstill between these two is not more than an inch.

No rattling now!

Overall
My baby still rocks. She accelerates as freely as she did on Day 1 of fitting the Pete's tuning box. Rock steady at 150+kmph, and braking that I can bank on. The mileage still hovers around 14 - 15 kmpl in the city, and 16 on the highway. There is not much more I can ask for in a car.
Leaving you with a couple of pictures taken on my cell phone yesterday.

[architect]

Your story highlights the classic TASS problems, esp regarding Fiats.

Bad diagnosis, random (and much delayed) replacement of parts under warranty and further troubles arising because the problem is still unsolved.

Good to see you catching up. I have been driving less than 1200 km per month for the last 2-3 months and the reduced FE due to horrible traffic conditions, A/C, start-stop driving and wider tyres doesn't help either. A long distance trip could solve that, though .

Just an advice, going by the blistering speeds you are doing, I suggest you replace your brake pads by about 20-25000 km. The brake pads may look fine, but they will cause the level of brake fluid to reduce and cause your brake indicators on the dash to keep on blinking. Read my thread for details.

[Ice]

And the problem's back. On a drive to Chennai on Friday (less than a week after the compressor and the expansion valve were changed by Prerana) the AC started icing as usual. A couple of de-icing cycles later, the compressor refused to cool, just like what happened on the Thirunelveli trip.

I now wish that I had never given the car to Prerana to fix the icing problem in the first place - at least the AC was cooling properly then. The AC failed at night on the highway when it was pouring. I kept the windows down to prevent fogging on the inside of the windshield. Thanks to this, my wife and I picked up a few inches of Class A highway slush on our faces before reaching home.

The car is now at VST Motors Chennai. The Works Manager there, Mr. Ramalingam, has promised to fix this problem once and for all. Be that as it may, I'm fast losing faith in Tata's ability to fix this uniquely Fiat problem. Let's see what VST is able to do.

Meanwhile, I am driving my father's new Ford Ikon TDCi - a comfortable car with great visibility and decent mileage, but boring. Probably a Pete's to spice her up, maybe?

VST, please exorcise the ghost in the machinery, and give me back my Forza!

Originally Posted by architect

Just an advice, going by the blistering speeds you are doing, I suggest you replace your brake pads by about 20-25000 km. The brake pads may look fine, but they will cause the level of brake fluid to reduce and cause your brake indicators on the dash to keep on blinking. Read my thread for details.

Architect, will do. Thank you for your concern!

[cooldude1988765]

Did you try turning the thermostat up a bit ? just a wee bit higher than the max cool position. We had the same problem with our old zen d.

[Ice]

It's been a weekend of really difficult decisions. Last updated, my Forza was left at VST Motors, Chennai, for yet another fix on the AC. Got the car back on Saturday (I'd driven back to Chennai in the Ford for a wedding anyway).

The Fix
VST has force-fitted a thermostat-type cutoff which turns the compressor off like in a normal car. Met with a Fiat Factory technician at VST (he was there to help this issue) and he mentioned that there might be a design flaw in the AC itself. Apparantly, Fiat uses a slightly different compressor on the Palio MJD, one which doesn't have a thermostat! Instead, the compressor has a built-in system where a valve opens up periodically and lets out some of the chilled air. Or something like that. Sounded like mambo jambo to me.

Anyway, the Fiat Technician said that they were trying to get this design flaw rectified (which may require a recall on all MJDs reporting such issues). But in the meanwhile, VST has done their little bit of innovation.

The Result
Drove the car around Madras during the weekend. I didn't encounter any icing, and the AC was chilling really well. The "khat-khat" sound of the VST innovation took some getting used to, but all in all the AC didn't disappoint.

NOTE: The longest drive I did ws a 1 hour shunt from Kotturpuram to the Marina Beach and back. It took me an hour thanks to some zoning officers okaying a multi-storey mall bang on the narrowest main road in Madras. Bah!

Heartache!
I'd pretty much made up my mind to bring the car back to Bangalore with me on Monday. On Sunday evening however, while sipping a thoughtful gin and tonic, I realized that my service problems had not been sorted out yet. VST does the job in Madras, but can I trust Prerana after they bungled up 5 chances to fix the AC?

My dad (an avid Fiat lover himself), who's been through the dark years of Sundaram service and No-Service in the early to mid 2000's added to my quandary by advising me not to take the Fiat back to Bangalore.
"Concorde - poor work; Manipal - thieves; Prerana - inept; Hari Prasad - great, but no warranty-related work undertaken." was his succinct critique of the situation.

I was perfectly O.K. with leaving the Fiat back at home and adopting the Ikon TDCi (which I am falling in love with), until the old man mentioned that he would be selling the Fiat if I was leaving it behind. Crumbs!

Need your Advice on...
I basically have 2 days to decide whether to keep the Fiat. This would mean that I would have to keep the Fiat in Bangalore, servicing it here.

Option 1:
Keep the Fiat in Bangalore. Take bad service on the chin, or find the Holy Grail: A trustworthy Fiat Service Center

Option 2:
Keep the Ford in Bangalore. Get her serviced at Metro or Lathangi. The Fiat will be sold.

Can you folks help me choose between Options 1 and 2?

[MileCruncher]

Thats really sad to hear!

Coming to the problem at hand, what do Mangesh and his gang at FIAT say. Have you told them at the amount of problem you are facing. Have you told him at you are contemplating filing a case in the consumer court or something like. I would wait for the FIAT marketing chaps to respond before taking any decision.

OT: Since the Punto and Palio share the same engine, is the A/C and other mountings same or different?

[Ice]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Thats really sad to hear!

Coming to the problem at hand, what do Mangesh and his gang at FIAT say. Have you told them at the amount of problem you are facing. Have you told him at you are contemplating filing a case in the consumer court or something like. I would wait for the FIAT marketing chaps to respond before taking any decision.

OT: Since the Punto and Palio share the same engine, is the A/C and other mountings same or different?

Mangesh and the gang at Fiat have not got in touch with me after the initial round of emails. I've even sent an email to the Works Manager at VST with a copy to Mangesh, but haven't received a response. I guess that since the Palio sells only 100-200 a month, I'm a little lower on the pecking order compared to a Linea or a Punto customer.

As far as I know, the AC setup in the Palio seems to be the same as the Siena/Petra and the Palio 1.6 Stile. I think the 1.1 Stile has a lesser capacity compressor.

More news: My dad is driving the car to Bangalore this weekend on some work. If the AC doesn't foul up on the trip here, then I'll go ahead and keep her here and probably get routine services done at VST, Chennai.

Don't get me wrong - I love the car. She is an absolute beaut to drive, and with the Pete's kit on is untouchable in mid-range cruising between 80 and 140 kmph. (I even ran her without the Pete's for a while in case the box was interfering with some ECU settings related to the AC - didn't fix the problem). My only problem lies with the abyssmal service. Offering great service for the Punto and the Linea is a sexy topic for Fiat India. But they need to keep in mind that a Palio driver yesterday (or today, in my case) will be the best ambassador for any other Fiat tomorrow.