[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

From the past sometime the fuel average is pretty low at around 11 kmpl. I can see dense black soot in the exhaust when I put my finger in. What could be wrong? Does it need some sort of tuning? Thanks in advance.

I guess the air fuel mixture is rich so there could be incomplete combustion so the possible deposition of sooth in the exhaust pipe. Get this checked once and try adjusting.

Since you say the fuel efficiency low I can possibly be the air fuel ratio.

Cheers,
Anurag.

[extreme_torque]

@parag - Thanks a ton. I showed it to a local mechanic and he suspects that the O2 sensor may need replacement. I will get it scanned at MASS and do whatever is necessary.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

@parag - Thanks a ton. I showed it to a local mechanic and he suspects that the O2 sensor may need replacement. I will get it scanned at MASS and do whatever is necessary.

The O2 Sensor is failing would generally show a "Check Engine" error on the Speedometer console. My cousin faced this problem in his F10D at 64,000 Kms and replaced it around 72,000 Kms only after the ASC said "They don't have stock" and "It is fine to drive with a failed O2 Sensor"

I know generally a bad sensor would result in improper Fuel-Air mixture (closed loop system) and hence affect the performance and hence FE but then advising someone to drive with it is totally unacceptable that the ASC did 2 years back.

[Ashkait Kapoor]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Like Anurag mentioned it could be various reasons behind the bumpy/harsh ride (not that the ride quality can be compared to some well planted cars).
I am sure at 38k you would be running on stock tires? If Yes, they might be of JK make which usually offer a hard ride.
Both JKs and Bridgestones in my car (1st and 2nd Set) offered hard rides when driven alone but once I shifted to XM1+ (3rd) and XM2( 4th), I have faced no issues with the ride whatsoever..

..You may want to get that inspected too. Its fairly simple task to remove the whole shifter assembly and check the rubber parts.

Thanks a lot parag sir. You guys have been of great help.
I will take the car to the service station next month most probably and get the necessary work done. Will update once done!
Ciao!

Note From Team-BHP Support: Please avoid quoting entire posts as it may inconvenience small-screen / mobile users. Thanks.

[Ashkait Kapoor]

Hello Parag sir,
I finally got my cars check up done. When the guy at the service center test drove the car he said there was no issues with any parts of the car and told me the reason for the bumpy ride could be because of the skinny tires. About the gear being harsh, he said there were no issues with that either and that wagonrs always had slightly harsh gearshifts. Also he said the clutch plate does need replacement but i could still use it for a few hundred kms still which sounded weird and i told him i would be doing a lot of highway runs this month as it is my sister's marriage and my to be brother in law stays about a 100 kms away and i do not want any problems cropping up then so he said u can use the car this month and bring it in next month to which i agreed. Here's a list of the other things got done. And yes i got a benefit which included free washing and free labour on a few nick and nacks!
And a few pics of my wagonR and my cousin's wagonR, somewhat inspired by your WagonR! I call them the F10D Brothers.

[ukamath]

@paragsachania - Thanks for the wonderful thread - It took me quite a while to read through this and other threads - Simply wonderful. Adore the way you worship and take care of your car and the way it responds back to you. If I may say so - You guys make for a perfect couple!

This thread and it's many responses made my fall in love with my Wagon R all over again. I own a March 2010 LXI. This was probably from the last batch of F10Ds produced as the K cars started rolling in from April. I was facing a big dilemma - whether to wait for the K or go for the older F10. But my heart won over the brain (old v/s new) and I came home with the F10 (along with some good year end discounts). I simply could not resist the majestic feeling provided by the older version when compared to the newer one (definitely not a bad choice - but felt the space and storage
options were better in the older model).

It's now almost 3.5 years now with the Wagon and I have really enjoyed my drives - mostly on highways. Since I had company provided transportation, and due to some family issues, never had much opportunity to drive more, so you will see a surprisingly low 20,250 on the odo after this time. This is obviously no match to the way your Wagons have covered. But nevertheless it has been a niggle free and a happy ownership experience for me. The engine is super smooth and very responsive. Gears
are generally smooth - except for reverse.

That said - needed some help and advice from all on the 20K service for my car. The service was due at 20K, but due to some personal constraints have not been able to do so yet. Based in south Bangalore, I i usually give my car to Mandovi (JPN) or Surakshaa (Hosur Rd). Which one would you recommend?

Also, can you please suggest your views on the following.

1. Engine Oil - Do I need to stick to regular MGP oil or can i top up with Shell synthetic / other oils. I drive on a road which warrants many gear changes (~30 speed humps dot my everyday journey) - driving on lower gears for a fair part of my drive. 2 highway drives (750+ kms each) would be coming up soon. Which oil would you recommend?

2. G.B Oil - Should I stick to stock MGP oil or use Shell or similar (which one)?

3. Spark Plugs - As of now on stock plugs - should I move to Bosch Super or similar? Currently, I feel that FE is on the lower side. (I always fill at Shell - use regular ULD)

4. Getting some kind of a low sounding thud noise from the front left side - not sure of it from the suspension or GB.

5. Clutch - Sometimes i need to depress the clutch pedal twice and deep to smoothly engage the gears, I don't experience slippage as such, but is this something to be worried about? I never ride the clutch and generally a sedate driver.

Value all your inputs, given the strong experience each of you have with your Wagons! And again a big thanks to all of you for very useful write-ups.

[paragsachania]

The Tallboy will clock 210000 on tomorrow when we drive to Hassan and Back. Here are a couple of pictures captured from the recent drive to Goa

Between Dharwad and Belgaum tailed by funkukar:


Near Chorla ghats (alokgunhal's SX4, funkykar's Palio Multijet & the tallboy):

[paragsachania]

And then, the Tallboy simply added another 10,000 kms post the 2L mark over the quick 450 kms drive on last Sunday.



The performance and FE numbers have not changed at all. The return drive from Goa on 18th August ensured a full tank north of Panaji on NH17 lasted beyond 647 kms (FE easily above 20kmpl). Of course, the return drive was more sedate with speeds never beyond 90kmph all through.

The last weekend's spirited drive to Hassan and back ensured the tank lasted for about 540 kms with 31 liters that went in upon tankful resulting in 17.xx kmpl with 100% use of the AC.

Overall, this one's got not complaints even today whatsoever and keeps chugging.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by ukamath

That said - needed some help and advice from all on the 20K service for my car. The service was due at 20K, but due to some personal constraints have not been able to do so yet. Based in south Bangalore, I i usually give my car to Mandovi (JPN) or Surakshaa (Hosur Rd). Which one would you recommend?

Out of the 2, I would recommend Surakshaa from my personal experience.

Also, can you please suggest your views on the following.

1. Engine Oil - Do I need to stick to regular MGP oil or can i top up with Shell synthetic / other oils. I drive on a road which warrants many gear changes (~30 speed humps dot my everyday journey) - driving on lower gears for a fair part of my drive. 2 highway drives (750+ kms each) would be coming up soon. Which oil would you recommend?

Mine was on mineral oil (20w40) till around 160,000 kms. I switched to Shell Semi 5w30 and driving on that even today (210,000 kms). I have found no issues and as a matter of fact realized that the thinner grade oil has made revving much smoother and higher RPMs.

2. G.B Oil - Should I stick to stock MGP oil or use Shell or similar (which one)?

Most ASCs use 75w Grade for Gear oils I haven't really been too particular on this. Just regular Gear oil replacement every 20,000 kms has kept the Gearbox in excellent condition till date.
However, I have used Bardahl Gear Oil additive on one occasion and felt the typical hum from the gearbox has vanished.

3. Spark Plugs - As of now on stock plugs - should I move to Bosch Super or similar? Currently, I feel that FE is on the lower side. (I always fill at Shell - use regular ULD)

I have used BOSCH after falling prey to many reviews and found them totally useless for my WagonR. The OE plugs as per the owner's manual are NGK DCPR7E and Champion (forgot the model). While the Champion costs around 65 INR per plug, NGK is priced at 125-130 per piece.

I am too particular about NGK as it is definitely better at the lowest of speeds when you are crawling in B2B traffic. Recently (may be around 30k kms back), I upgraded to NGK DCP7RE IX (Iridium) and found them way better than the usual NGK Plugs too. I always look at how these plugs perform at the lowest of RPM while rolling in 2nd gear in traffic and how quickly they help engine RPM climb up when accelerating and reach high RPMs (Provided you have clean Throttle Body, Injectors and Air Filter with unadulterated Petrol).

4. Getting some kind of a low sounding thud noise from the front left side - not sure of it from the suspension or GB.

With the vehicle parked with hand brakes applied, try hitting the sidewall of the front wheel with a firm fist. A metallic clink-clank noise will hint at dry caliper pins and would need greasing or replacement of the pins during the next service.

If not the calipers, you may want to check the health of the suspension strut.

5. Clutch - Sometimes i need to depress the clutch pedal twice and deep to smoothly engage the gears, I don't experience slippage as such, but is this something to be worried about? I never ride the clutch and generally a sedate driver.

The F10D has been infamous for having a bad gearbox. It could be the same reason in this case. You would notice that in cold climate slotting into particular gears is not so easy. Get a gearbox oil change done and see if the problem persists before troubleshooting further.

My car has recently been test driven by various friends and SAs at the ASC and they have surprisingly found the Gearbox way too different and smoother than a typical F10D. I am glad I have been lucky so far!!

Value all your inputs, given the strong experience each of you have with your Wagons! And again a big thanks to all of you for very useful write-ups.

You are welcome and I hope these answers would help you get rid of the confusions. All the best !

[alokgunhal]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

And then, the Tallboy simply added another 10,000 kms post the 2L mark over the quick 450 kms drive on last Sunday.

Attachment 1133209

The performance and FE numbers have not changed at all. The return drive from Goa on 18th August ensured a full tank north of Panaji on NH17 lasted beyond 647 kms (FE easily above 20kmpl). Of course, the return drive was more sedate with speeds never beyond 90kmph all through.

The last weekend's spirited drive to Hassan and back ensured the tank lasted for about 540 kms with 31 liters that went in upon tankful resulting in 17.xx kmpl with 100% use of the AC.

Overall, this one's got not complaints even today whatsoever and keeps chugging.

That is one well maintained (well well maintained is a too simple word to use) for this car. Congrats paragsachania on crossing another milestone in your relationship (will not say ownership as I know its much more than that) with the Wagon R. I am sure that MSIL will be proud of this car for the way it has been maintained and is still running. Hope you have many more kilometers of fun with the Wagon R.

[saket77]

Parag Bhai, I think your Wagon-R was some 'special' piece manufactured by MSIL that got mixed up with the lot of regular Wagon-Rs by mistake.

BTW, you have stated that you have NGK Iridium spark plugs better performing than the regular NGKs. I am sure that they are much better plugs but how much benefit our consumer level cars can take of it in your opinion? Is it worth shifting to them and what is the price per piece? Will it be good for my Zen 2002?

Same with synthetics. How much increase in performance do you feel after shifting to synthetics and who will be a better person than you to tell us what is the drain interval you go for when using synthetics.

Thanks,
Saket

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by saket77

Parag Bhai, I think your Wagon-R was some 'special' piece manufactured by MSIL that got mixed up with the lot of regular Wagon-Rs by mistake.

The F10D is one of the very reliable and beautiful engines produced by MSIL in those days. I have driven two of these F10Ds myself that have clocked 90-115k within my workplace and a friend in Pune .

BTW, you have stated that you have NGK Iridium spark plugs better performing than the regular NGKs. I am sure that they are much better plugs but how much benefit our consumer level cars can take of it in your opinion? Is it worth shifting to them and what is the price per piece? Will it be good for my Zen 2002?

The Older Manuals of WagonR suggested both Champion and NGK as OE spark plugs. In the below pic that I got from the internet now the Champion is not mentioned (Like how it is in my hard copy) ,the same were usually stocked and replaced by the ASC. While the Champion cost 65 INR the NGK is sold at 125-135 INR.

Since I replace the plugs myself, after a lot of experience in driving every day in Bangalore's B2B Traffic, I began to realize that the NGKs fared a lot better than the Champion.

The low end revving is very smooth on NGKs even when you roll over in idle RPMs in Second gear with the Air-Conditioner On.

The RPM climb from 1000-5000 is seamless in all the gears whenever I have tested the same on open stretches.

I need not be too explicit here in mentioning that even today with K&N Stock replacement and NGK Iridiums the Top speed on a straight stretch is 165kmph.

This could be due to various reasons too: Healthier Engine, Cleaner Plugs and Air filter, Good Unadulterated Fuel and regular replacement of Engine and Transmission oils.

Cost:
The DCP7RE comes in 3 Types: Regular, G-Power and Iridium and available at most of the Authorized NGK Stockists and that's where I pick NGK Products.

The regular ones cost almost the same was MGP (125 INR Per Plug) while the G-Power costs around 160-180 Per Plug.

The Iridium Plugs cost me about 2100 for a Set of 4 with Taxed Invoice.

Same with synthetics. How much increase in performance do you feel after shifting to synthetics and who will be a better person than you to tell us what is the drain interval you go for when using synthetics.

Thanks,
Saket

I am not using Synthetic Oil. I am rather using mineral (Or Semi Synthetic as you may want to call) which is now Maruti recommended for the K-Series Engines.


This is certainly not fully Synthetic as I know it costs me a little more than 1000 INR for 3.7 Liters.

The Benefits from my experience:

The Idle RPM after a cold start is the biggest hint that this is free revving. While with 20w40 the car's Idle RPM after a cold start would be around 1500-1700 RPM, on 5w30 the RPM needle easily points beyond 2100-2200 during those early morning cranks.

This free revving nature of a comparatively thinner grade oil (5 vs 20) is easily evident when you try to redline (almost) to have some fun after paying at that Toll booth.

In fact, cruising at 110-120 KMPH with 4 Adults and boot and the AC On is effortless that I have often felt if I really need a replacement for this puny hatch!!

The Engine note is crisp and easily audible inside the cabin (Talk about the NVH and Damping in 2006).

[a4anurag]

Hope I can answer on behalf of Parag sir. Just my opinion though.

Originally Posted by saket77

I am sure that they are much better plugs but how much benefit our consumer level cars can take of it in your opinion? Is it worth shifting to them and what is the price per piece? Will it be good for my Zen 2002?

The Iridium plugs are good enough but what I feel as I have them on my Karizma where I could find slightly better throttle response and efficiency with respect to the stock plugs. I just checked while getting the pollution check for bike where the emission levels were marginally lower than the stock ones. Final point is the fuel is burnt better and better response.

Originally Posted by saket77

Same with synthetics. How much increase in performance do you feel after shifting to synthetics and who will be a better person than you to tell us what is the drain interval you go for when using synthetics.

Synthetic oil has a better life with respect to mineral oils and this is slightly more viscous so the lubrication will be better and the clatter/sound would be lower. I fill in synthetic oil in my Ritz and drain it every 10K kms. Many say 15K kms is also OK if you can stretch to!

But I have been using synthetic oil in my Ritz from the day I gave the car for 20K Kms service, now the car is at 100K kms and I feel the synthetic oil stays good 8500 kms from oil change after which there is harshness in the engine, NVH levels are higher post 8500 kms.

Anurag.

[saket77]

Thanks Parag!

My car has run about 10K kms since its last change of spark plugs which MASS put on it: Champion. I would replace to NGK next time for sure. Thanks for clearing the air over Bosch. During the last service, I insisted for Bosch sparkplugs at MASS which unfortunately (in fact 'fortunately' when looking by hindsight) they did not have.

I have been using Catrol Magnatec since beginning but after the last fill, some how my week old Magnatec went down the gutter due to faulty filter. MASS was called for assistance and they came with MGO Servo.

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanations and wish you lots of miles ahead on the F10D!

Regards,
Saket

[Trust_In_Thrust]

How do you set the plug gap as i recall NGK says beyond .008 they do not recommend to adjust the default plug gaps in either direction.