[predatorwheelz]

I remember having met a Dr Nair in my MBA days. A 60 year old with the heart of a 25 year old. An FRCS (Orthopaedic) from UK who had spent 30 years practising there, then came back to India to teach NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) to B-School grads, and has been living here ever since. A very interesting man who was open to banter, on and off topic.

Having sampled life in UK and India, Mr. Nair had a favourite quote - "To live in India, you require a sense of humour". Having sampled a Tata Indica DLS for the last 4 years, I can safely paraphrase Mr. Nair - "To live with a Tata car, you require a tremendous sense of humour!" And thus, much to the chagrin of Tata fans across TBHP, starts my long-term ownership review of a 2005 Tata Indica DLS.

Part I - The Purchase

It was in January 2005 that my mother and I finally got dad agreeable to change our 1997 Maruti 800 DX.

Despite having done some 70K kms in the last 8 years, and survived one major collision with a bus that necessitated changing the body shell, the old car was still running decently. It was my mother's (a businesswoman and an active socialite) choice steed for zipping across the city, and I had spent my college years driving that car as well. But an 8 year old car is an 8 year old car, prone to show the occassional tantrum. I was the car nut in the family who took care of keeping the steeds in running order. Now that my MBA admission was confirmed, we couldnt let our mechanically daft mom drive around in the old car anymore. The family needed a new car, and a bigger one at that.

Sadly, trying to reason my dad into buying a big car is like trying to make a politician attend a moral science class. He has always believed that a car is nothing more than a contraption with 4 wheels, which takes you from point A to point B - period. All out pleas to make him go for an Accent/Esteem VX fell on deaf ears. At the most, he was agreeable to buy a hatchback for around 4 lakhs. Hence started the search:

Hyundai Santro - The city had only 2 Hyundai dealers then. Both offered us excellent discounts and freebies. Sadly, we were not very impressed with the car. By Indian standards, we are a family of big people. The rear seat seemed like a tight fit, and the dashboard fouled with my left knee while driving. When I took it to the highway, the car seemed to go light at speeds above 100 kmph. Mom (who would be doing the majority of driving) also did not like the funny shaped dashboard.

Maruti Zen (The original, not the Estilo) - Though I always loved this little zing thing on wheels, it came in for a lot of criticism from my parents. The dealership provided us a test car with only 9K on the odo. Sadly, it had lot of rattles, and my dad felt the ride was too harsh for his back.

Maruti Wagon R - It took me about 5 mins before I declared that I was not going for this car. The car gives you a false feeling of space, before you realize that the occupants are too close for comfort. Plus the high speed handling was nothing to write home about. The quality of plastics was bad too.

Fiat Palio 1.9D - Now this was a car I begged my dad to go for. I have always been a fan of the Palio's looks, space and composure. He agreed to take a test drive and was bowled. The Fiat dealer offered us a good discount. But sadly, Dad got all sort of negative remarks about Fiat After-sales and the Palio from his peers (where have we heard this before?). No amount of pestering could get him to buy a Fiat after that.

A second hand OHC - A car dealer we knew had a beautiful 4 year old OHC 1.5 for sale. Sparingly used, it came with Original Honda Alloys, no accident record and a 6 speaker Pioneer ICE. Tempting, at a price of only 3.5 lakhs (after negotiation)! Apparently, the owner was shifting abroad and needed to sell of the car in a hurry. I TDd the car and gave it a go. Again, my dad's peers played spoilsport. One of them had recently upgraded from an Esteem VX to an HC. He was horrified by the cost of Honda parts and servicing, and advised dad strongly against going for a used Honda.

Tata Indica DLS - As one can guess, by the time we went to see the Indica, we had pretty much run out of options. The Indica was only available in non-turbo guise back then. I TDd the car first. The engine pick-up was sluggish, the handling seemed competent at best. The interior plastics seemed pretty solid at the time(never be swayed by appearances). The car sounded like a tractor on a cold engine, though it quitened up a bit after warm-up. This was the car my dad wanted to buy? The only saving grace was the acres of space inside the car.

Sadly, a motoring enthusiast with a hardcore rational dad is not a happy man. The Indica it was for him, that too the DLS model.

On 31st March 2005, our Red Tata Indica DLS finally came home.

Part 2 - The Initial Ownership Experience

Days after the car coming home, I convinced dad to splurge a bit on it. Got lovely "Autoform" art leather seat covers. Also an awesome Blaupunkt Ice - Bahamas head unit, titanium coated Blaupunkt rear speakers and good Rockford Fosgate front speakers. (OT - 4 years later, when I was TDing the Cedia - refer my Verna ownership thread - I found out that the Blaupunkt Bahamas is OEM ICE for that car as well!).

The Indica settled down very well with us. It suited my dad's practicality and my mom's needs (more space for shopping, easy to drive around etc etc) perfectly. Even I gave up my enthusiast ego and learnt to live with the car. Then, 2 months within buying the car, the problems started:

One afternoon in May the car suffered a puncture. When we inspected the tyre (Goodyear GPS2 165/65 R13) we found that the tread had been ripped across, and we had to buy a replacement tyre. The nail that caused this fiasco wasnt that huge enough, just a regular nail. Left a question in our minds on the integrity of the tyre setup.

Within 15 days the car fell into a pothole and started pulling to one side. When we took it to the service centre, we were told that the rim was bent. But the car was not doing more than 40 Kmph at the time of impact!The service advisor told us that the Indica comes with delicate suspension components. So to save them from damage, the company fits soft rims - so they can absorb most of the impact and save the suspension! What logic!

At about the same time I noticed another problem with the car. If driven for more than an hour in congested traffic, the engine temperature gauge would go above the halfway mark. Then the engine would switch off and the fan would come on. The car would refuse to start for atleast another 5-10 mins. After this, it would start up normally, the gauge would go back to normal.

Was this an overheating problem? I checked and re-checked the engine oil level and coolant, which all seemed normal. Finally I contacted the service centre guys, who were like - "No problem sir! This thing happens regularly on Indicas. Its a self problem". The whole self was replaced under warranty, and the problem disappeared.

Another instance when we drove the car to our ancestral village in Birbhum district, some 255 kms from Kolkata. The roads inside the village are the "Kuccha" type, and any car's suspension takes a beating here. Our faithful Maruti 800 had done this trip SIX times, and suffered no damage. The first time we took the Indica, the front suspension cross-member got bent and had to be replaced.

I dont remember a day when the car didnt have some kind of a rattle - either emanating from a door panel, or the tailgate, or dashboard, or from inside the engine bay. Everytime I pointed this out to the service guys, they would flash a knowledgeable smile and get to work. The rattle would disappear, only to resurface again from another spot after a week.

Anyway, after living with this paradox for 4 months, it was time to bid goodbye and leave for my MBA. A new life waited for me. The Indica was left back in Kolkata, for my parents to take care of.

(To be continued)

[greenhorn]

22K in a 4 year old indica Diesel? Mine will be hitting 22k by the end of this month, and its only half as old, and I think i drive very little. there are younger indicas which have crossed 100000K on this forum!

Wonder why your folks picked up the diesel

[predatorwheelz]

Part 3 - The Horrors of Tata Service

4 years passed in the interim, 2 of which were spent doing an MBA and the next 2 working in Ahmedabad. During this period I used to come back to Kolkata on vacations only, to hear my parents' horror stories of Indica ownership. Slowly, Mom was shifting from driving around in the Indica to using Dad's (chauffer-driven) office car. Surprised me, as she was quite enthusiastic about driving herself.

Whenever I was back, I would be entrusted to take the car for servicing.

A word here about Tata servicing. If you are used to Maruti or Hyundai service, nothing will prepare you for the "Desi" experience you get at a Tata service centre. You walk into a very large facility where swarms of call centre cab drivers wait at the owner's lounge. As you sip on chai, you wait for the queue to end and your case to come up. The service advisor is a man who has usually come from Tata commercial vehicle service centres. His manner of addressing you is the same as the way he addresses illiterate truck drivers. He will shout at you that your car is a mess, and YOU are responsible for causing it. Ignoring your pleas that the car goofed up on his own, he will shout out the repair costs. (There is no company issued chart containing service charges hung on the walls, whatever the advisor shouts out is final).

By the time you have digested the repair list, he is already on to the next customer. (What can he do, there are so many cabbies to be addressed?). You bleat out any other issues that you might have had (Sir, my car's windshield washer is also not working) and he thunders back that it will be taken care of. You leave the service centre with more hope than surity.

When you come back in the evening, your car stands gleaming in one corner. You spend 5 minutes trying to locate the advisor, who spends the next 5 looking for your keys among the swarms of cabbie keys. You get in and TD the car, finding that the washer problem has still not been taken care of. You get angry and demand that the problem be taken care of RIGHT NOW. The advisor gives you a sullen look, and says that all mechanics have gone home for the day.

You now have 2 options. Either leave the car till tomorrow morning for the problem to be addressed, or sign the customer satisfaction form, take the car and go home, waiting for the problem to be rectified at a later service. No wonder I usually did the latter.

A week after you take the car home, a pleasant lady from Tata Motors gives you a call. She takes your feedback on the service experience. Quite obviously, you are dissatisfied, and give a poor rating. Within a day or 2, a different service centre guy calls up. He expresses surprise at your dissatisfaction ("If you are not satisified, you could have just told us, sir?!!!! Please come to us next week and we will take care of the washer problem")

So you finally believe that there is justice in the world, and go back to the service centre to rectify a problem which should have been rectified at the first go. And who do you find there? The original service advisor, with his authoritative tone, his disdain at paying attention to your problems, et all! So the vicious circle continues.

And dont believe for a moment that the problem could be set right by writing to Tata Motors themselves. Tata is a truly Indian company, and if you expect anything more than an automated email response, you are not from this country!

Part 4 - The Shock I faced on return

Anyway, now back to the ownership experience. I returned to Kolkata in end-2008, securing a posting in the city. The first few days after joining office here, I drove the Indica to office. Then I realized what a horror story I was facing:

In these 4 years the car had run some 20K kms, and been parked under shade in our own house when not running. Pretty normal for an owner-driven car, eh? Except that our car was sporting rust on all side-panels and fenders. The car pulled abnormally to the left whenever I drove it. This problem was later traced to the steel wheels. The tyres were so de-shaped, the wheels so badly bent, that all tyrewallas expressly declared they were unable to align or balance them. Rattles were a dime a dozen inside the car. In short, the car was falling apart, and would surely have done so if my return had taken another year or 2.

Strong corrective action was in order. I immediately sent the car off for mechanical repairs. Many engine and brake components needed replacement, the engine mountings had rusted off and were replaced, so did a lot of suspension components. The mechanical repair bill came to INR 23K.

Next up were the wheels. Sick of the bending issues, I replaced the steel wheels with Freeman Alloys and Yokohama 165/65 R13 tubeless tyres. Thankfully, this has proved to be an intelligent decision. The cost of the setup was 19K.

Last to go were the body repairs. Extensive sections of the body were replaced. Some sections that werent replaced required denting and painting. The total cost was INR 23K.

I kept asking myself (and every Tata service guy) the same question - HOW? HOW CAN A CAR WHICH HAS BEEN DECENTLY RUN IN THE LAST 4 YEARS JUST FALL APART BY ITSELF? Everytime they screamed - "Owner abuse". What abuse? My mom drove the M800 for 8 years. If she indeed was the culprit, that car wouldnt have lasted 8 years!

Anyway, here's the last bit to save this from turning into another Tata bashing thread. To its credit, the Indica has never let us down on the road. Regardless of rattles et all, it has always brought my mom and dad home from wherever they were.

It has always remained the unloved child of the family. Thanks to its niggling issues, mom has shifted to using dad's office car for her outings. She only uses the Indica when the office car is not available.

Since I bought the Verna shortly after I shifted to Kolkata, the Indica hardly gets to see any usage from my side either.

A new lease in its life has come in after my marriage. Now my wife is learning to drive in it.

The Pics

Here are the pics. Note that this condition has only been reached after spending 65K.

[greenhorn]

I guess I'm largely immune to the rim bending issues because I'm running 14" stock steel rims on my indica. Drive through some pretty bad roads , and have not had a single issue yet in 2 years

Even the Service advisors here are clueless, but at least courteous and apologetic(they have a lot to apologize for !) .

But hey, at least I'm satisfied, and i feel sorry that you got such a lemony car

[condor]

predatorwheelz : The car pulled abnormally to the left whenever I drove it. This problem was later traced to the steel wheels. The tyres were so de-shaped, the wheels so badly bent, that all tyrewallas expressly declared they were unable to align or balance them.

Many engine and brake components needed replacement, the engine mountings had rusted off and were replaced, so did a lot of suspension components.

Next up were the wheels. Sick of the bending issues.

@PW, let's say we keep the rusting etc aside. This can happen with a bad manufacturing process. But again, tata's paint jobs are known to be good.

* Car pulling to left
* badly bent wheels, beyond redemption
* suspension components that need replacement ..

all these within 20k odd km's of running, can only suggest a badly driven car. One that has seen quite some rough treatment.

I am Not convinced that the car has been gently used all the time. And pls note, have seen two cars of the Indica family quite well. Both cars ran as much each year, as your car has done during it's time so far with you.

[rajneeesh]

Predatorwheelz,
You seem to have had a torrid time with the car. I have an Indica DLS that has done 85 K Km in 5 years. No such problems for me although the car has started showing its age and needs some clutch and suspension work. The wheel rims do get bent, but not to the extent mentioned by you. This particular piece is either a lemon or is not cared for in your absence/ driven roughly.

Indica is thrashed by lakhs of cabbies and driver's every day. Had it been so troublesome, it would not have been selling in such large numbers.

[malgudi]

I also have a may 2003 Indica DLS which has done about 34K so far and has fair share of problems as well. I have replaced front suspension components, Clutch, Engine gaskets, Starter moter, Glow plugs(inspite of waiting for heat light to go off before starting), Power steering related components and my rear suspension is also on the verge of being changed. (My car has only seen smooth tarmac roads with occasional potholes so far).
On the otherhand there are many owners who have run about 85-100K in about the same time and have not faced any issues. Does this mean that Indica is more prun to parts failure if not heavily used?

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Wonder why your folks picked up the diesel

The diesel? I have been wondering why they picked up the Indica at all!

Originally Posted by condor

all these within 20k odd km's of running, can only suggest a badly driven car. One that has seen quite some rough treatment.

I am Not convinced that the car has been gently used all the time. And pls note, have seen two cars of the Indica family quite well. Both cars ran as much each year, as your car has done during it's time so far with you.

Condor, I partly agree with your point. My mother is a very rash driver, and is not the type who meticulously keeps track of her car's tyre pressures even! But she's been driving for TWENTY ONE years, and has owned/driven cars as diverse as a Premier Padmini, a 72 Amby (figure out how easy it is to drive one of these!) and the aforesaid Maruti 800. All these cars have stood up very well to her style of driving without any significant trouble. How does one explain only the Indica withering away? Either its a delicate car by design, or I was indeed sold a lemon!

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

Indica is thrashed by lakhs of cabbies and driver's every day. Had it been so troublesome, it would not have been selling in such large numbers.

Rajneesh, it is a common consensus among auto journalists that Tata has a wide difference in build quality from car to car. Take the Safaris on TBHP as an example. While many owners have gone thousands of miles without problems, there's one gent from North India who's problems never seem to finish.

And FYI, there are many reasons why a car sells in large numbers in India. Quality of the vehicle in question is not one of the paramount factors, you will be surprised to know! If it was, the Palios and Mondeos of this world would have outsold other cars in their segment by a fair margin.

Originally Posted by malgudi

I also have a may 2003 Indica DLS which has done about 34K so far and has fair share of problems as well. I have replaced front suspension components, Clutch, Engine gaskets, Starter moter, Glow plugs(inspite of waiting for heat light to go off before starting), Power steering related components and my rear suspension is also on the verge of being changed. (My car has only seen smooth tarmac roads with occasional potholes so far).
On the otherhand there are many owners who have run about 85-100K in about the same time and have not faced any issues. Does this mean that Indica is more prun to parts failure if not heavily used?

Hey, thats an interesting thought. Maybe it is a car that only serves you well if you heavily use it!

[revhappy]

@Predatorwheels:

Reading at your review and analyzing what trouble the car gave you, I can see that its the wheel bending and rattles could be because of rash driving.
The M800 had withstood it, so good for it, that doesn't mean all cars can be ripped on bad roads and expect them to be as good as new.

Regarding the rusting problem, you live in a coastal city and parking the car and not driving it often doesnt help the cause for not rusting.

Because it was a cheap tata car it was abused but an expensive honda city will not be abused and hence it will last, so why blame Tata for it?

[condor]

predatorwheelz : Either its a delicate car by design, or I was indeed sold a lemon!

@PW, Let us not generalize & term that car a lemon. The basic points of not even checking tyre pressures itself indicates the kind of usage & stresses those wheels have had. (Low pressure will mean a more harder hit to the wheels).

It is neither delicate :
- as can be seen from the thousands of cabs that are doing a few lakh km each,
- these cabs are in the hands of drivers - very often paid drivers employed by fleet owner.
- the drivers dont remain steady either, with the same car.
- the cabs you saw at the dealerships were in wty period. The moment the wty expires, the cars move to other garages. These fleets owners & drivers still stick to that car more than any other car in India today.

That car is not a lemon. A lemon is one that Varun Roy has. Check his thread "Protest Against Tata Motors ... ".


OT : If it helps, between the two cars I mentioned, we did 1.5L + km, mostly by a driver. And one was a pre-V2 Indica - where the problems were supposed to still be present.

[greenhorn]

heck even the most famous 'lemon' indica on t bhp was never a lemon to begin with. Dr Pullockaran's indica used to work perfectly and give record mileage till a bunch of jealous TASC mech's decided to take it apart . weak rims are an indica weakness. maybe your mom's driving probably made it worse. Usually when we find a weak point in a car, we traditionally compensate for it during usage. Apparently not so in your case.

[tortoiseNhare]

predatorwheelz,
From the pics it is evident that your indica is in great shape now. From now on if you could use it more often it will be clear whether it is indeed an original lemon or not.

[anekho]

very well written - really enjoyed reading your experiences with the indica.

regarding the car, well, a little love goes a long way, and I think this child needs some

cheers

[predatorwheelz]

In our last episode, we told our viewers that the Indica has gained a new lease of life as my wife is learning to drive in it.

Well, a lot of petrol has flown down our carbs and fuel injectors since then. My wife is now an expert driver, and uses the car as a daily driver. Except regular servicing, there seemed to be no issues.

But happiness is short lived. Sometime in November, she tried to get the car to make friends with an Innova's rear bumper. My accident crib followed.

Apun ka accident crib

Then I ran from pillar to post for the repairs, in a bid to save money. Realized Tata Motors, their dealers and insurance cos were like Gabbar, his bandook and Sambha. I, in comparison, was Kaalia ("Ab tera kya hoga re Kaalia?" "Maalik, maine aap ka gaadi liya hai. "Ab service bill bhar")

Apun ka nexus crib

Anyway, alls well that ends well. The car reached us just before Christmas. Considering how much I trust the garage people now, I did a thorough check. The paint job is good, the engine bay sheet metal has been replaced, parts look original and work ok. The wheels were totally out of alignment, which I got fixed from outside.









Oh, I've also paid for a new tyre. Same Yoko A Drive.



I paid 28K out of pocket to the service guys. 2.8K for the tyre. Thankful for nothing else but the fact that despite robbing me, the service people have done a good job.

[mercedised]

Many of the owners of Indica have mixed experience with car, you also had a pretty tight exp.
I own a Indica 1999 model, the engine has ran above 1,30000kms without engine overhaul and i have overhauled suspension once. except that i have never faced a problem and the engine is nearly about perfect.