[GSMINC]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I haven't checked the manual, but somebody was mentioning EGR cleaning is recommended for 30k service. If its not important why do they put it up in the manual?

Just checked the user manual after reading your post, EGR cleaning every 30000kms is mentioned.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

No Idea of why this is in the Manual while some key items like intercooler/Turbo service is not mentioned at all.

+1 to that, they have not mentioned idling before engine switch off to protect the turbo either.

[shibujp]

Yeah..I agree with Jaggu on the decarbonising gimmick. Thats what it is. Unless it is to get rid of soot that has accumulated due to some problem I'm skeptical about it's efficiency in a regularly serviced car.

None of the folks that I've talked to have reported any great results after decarbonising other than losing a load of cash .

[Jaggu]

On the other hand i had faced hell lot of issue in a petrol zen which underwent this decarb using additive in fuel. Plugs use to foul up quite often and the engine never felt good after this.

[kulvinder singh]

Gentlemen, just a few thoughts:
If you have ever seen the inside of an engine after 20,000 kms you will see that the carbon deposit is almost Rock Hard- so unless the de-carb liquid is corrosive enough to break a stone-- it ain't going to work, and if it is corrosive enough its also going to melt the rest of the engine into lumpen metal!!
I've managed to get hold of the Technical Manual (please don't ask how-- suffice to say that "the Company" doesn't like anyone to have it) for these engines.
De- Carb for these engines is clear- i.e Open the engine , Manually remove the carbon using a hard but blunt tool- so as not to damage the surfaces-- then, since the engines been opened re-face the head and block and change the Head Gasket

Liquid De- carbs will work if they are done every 3-5 k kms from new

What is much better and easier/ cheaper is that if you are having the EGR cleaned-- make sure that the Inlet Manifold is taken off and also thoroughly cleaned,

I've just opened my engine up ( I had a oil in coolent problem) could not believe the amont of carbon/ soot build-up in the Inlet. In the old days we used to regularly polish the Intakes to maintain performance ( and with new engines we used to "Polish and Port"- to increase performance) Modern engines like the DDis have tuned intakes which have a certain amount of Turbulence built in, so theres no point in polishing them-- but imagine what all that soot build up does---

So I gaurantee : clean the Intake and you will immediately see the difference- in performance----- Forget about liquid de- carbs and also be circumspect about proper de-carb. According to the factory data-- the cylinder head has a very very narrow tolerence ( and obviously not so precise production method) so once opened it may be necessary to replace the cylinder head itself-- 50K rs!!!-- even though it was working perfectly fine before.

Incidently the sudden drop in engine rpms could be because the ECU has a "limp home" mode which comes into operation if it senses any problems -- I can't be sure about this since my wonderfull Dealer gave me the owners manual for the petrol and not the Diesel- however, Last year I hired a Suzuki version in France and that had the Mode.
Obviously when you switch off the engine - the ECU clears its memory untill it senses the problem again.

[shibujp]

Got the EGR of my car cleaned this week. Cost me 850/-.

Initial perceptions:
- the car has become smoother to drive
- more responsive at lower rpms
- the diesel clatter is lower now
- earlier if I took my feet off the accelerator suddenly in order to decelerate the car used to jerk a bit. it's smoother now.

I think a better report about the actual benefit can be said after 1000kms or so. For now I think it has made a difference.

Regarding the actual cleaning, the SA insisted that the only way to access the EGR was from the bottom. He said that only the electronics could be seen through the top. I also feel, looking at the pictures of the EGR, that the eGR has to be accessed from the bottom.

Drive on,
Shibu

[kulvinder singh]

If you take off the rain water panel- which also holds the ECU- its the one at the back, under the windscreen (also have to take offthewiper assmbly-two bolts!), you get very easy access to the EGR and inlet manifold from the top. 10 mins max to take the panel off, 5 mins max to disconnect the hoses and 5 mins max to take the EGR off.
I'v' done this twice now, and am now making the blanking plates to get rid of the device, or may convert it to inject a little LPG instead- haven't decided.

In a previous post you had mentioned that there was a necissity by law to have the device. I'm not entirely aufait with the way law here works,but afew years ago I got rid of the device from my SAAB in the UK. Every time I take the car for its Annual Certification-- which is far more stringent than here-- the car passes.

The first time, the examiner told me, basically, that the law stipulates the emissions criteria that the car must meet- not the means by which to achieve it.

And further that a new car has to meet a specific emission criteria for the manufacturers certification, after that it is physically impossible for an engine to maintain exactly that level of emissions-- engines start to deteriorate the moment they leave the Factory!
So it has to be within a certain Range of emissions criteria-- which is wider than the initial- factory- criteria. Thus till date my SAAB has always passed, even without the EGR.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by kulvinder singh

I'v' done this twice now, and am now making the blanking plates to get rid of the device, or may convert it to inject a little LPG instead- haven't decided.

In a previous post you had mentioned that there was a necissity by law to have the device. I'm not entirely aufait with the way law here works,but afew years ago I got rid of the device from my SAAB in the UK. Every time I take the car for its Annual Certification-- which is far more stringent than here-- the car passes.

The first time, the examiner told me, basically, that the law stipulates the emissions criteria that the car must meet- not the means by which to achieve it.
.

What benefit does injecting LPG give in a diesel car?

I did not mean that the law literally meant that Maruti clean the EGR but the fact that emissions needed to be maintained within a certian level may have caused Maruti to add this item to the service.

i also feel that things like cat cons and EGRs do not make a difference in passing the emissions test in a well maintained car. I removed the cat con in my M800 and it always passed the test. I think manufacturers have these fitted to "lower" emission and also to ensure that even in a terribly maintained car the emissions are within limits.

Drive on!!
Shibu.

[kulvinder singh]

Basically LPG with diesel is the equivalent of NOX with petrol. As such it has the same effectwhat we sometimes call Afterburn i.e because of the difference in size of the moleculesyou get a better burn of all the fuel in the combustion-- in reality it doesn't increase the BHP- significantlyin a diesel as NOx does with petrol but it does give a better torque curve. In a turbo it makes the response a "decent" enough bit below thenormal rev range. I.E the turbo kicks in at alower RPM. Which means faster acceration or, depending on one's mood, better fuel economy.

But this is only one of the reasons I'mconsidering doing it. My main concern is with the soot in the intake manifold- LPG in diesel actually makes the combustion significantly cleaner.
My reason is this:
1. All cars have a "Air Filter". Which is there to clean the Air going into the combustion as clean as possible. We even pay to have it replaced in our regular services.
2. EGR's work by pumping an amount of Exhaust gases into the inlet along with the Fuel.
3. Exhaust Gases are basically unburnt fuel and SOOT- i.e Dirt.
4.If you have seen the amount of "Dirt" in the Intake manifold -when you clean the EGR- and you compare it with even the Dirtiest Air filter--- One sees that infact the EGR is pumping more dirt in than the Air Filter is taking out, makes one wonder whether there isany point in having an Air Filter at all.

So I've decided to replace the Very Dirty EGR gases with Very clean LPG instead.

Its obviously not as simple as it sounds above but I thought that perhaps the Technicalities may be better suited to a different forum, suffce it to say that I willhave towork out and build something that ensures just the right amount of LPG-- and if I use the existing EGR valve to do it I'm going to have to work out a way to ensure the control of temperature of the LPG.

As to the issue of servicing and cleaning the EGR---What I mean't by theprevious post is that EGR's, Cat Cons even Turbochargers are what Engine designers call "Slap On's"-- i.e they are devices slapped onto the engine by the manufacturers as they are a cheaper and easier way to meet the Primary Certification that an Engine Design needs in order for it to be allowed to be manufactured and sold------ as opposed to spending enormous amounts in R and D in order to come up with an engine design that naturally meets the Criteria.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by shibujp

What benefit does injecting LPG give in a diesel car?

kulvinder said it. We also have a thread about this and IIRC, some even tested this.

[shibujp]

Thanks for the detailed explanation kulvinder. Now that JK mentions it I think i read it earlier on this forum.

When you decide to do it be sure to open a thread detailing your experience in the technical section. i look forward to that.
Drive on!!
Shibu

[GSMINC]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Got the EGR of my car cleaned this week. Cost me 850/-.

Initial perceptions:
- the car has become smoother to drive
- more responsive at lower rpms
- the diesel clatter is lower now
- earlier if I took my feet off the accelerator suddenly in order to decelerate the car used to jerk a bit. it's smoother now.

I think a better report about the actual benefit can be said after 1000kms or so. For now I think it has made a difference.

Regarding the actual cleaning, the SA insisted that the only way to access the EGR was from the bottom. He said that only the electronics could be seen through the top. I also feel, looking at the pictures of the EGR, that the eGR has to be accessed from the bottom.

Drive on,
Shibu

Shibu,
while cleaning the Egr valve did u change the EGR cooler/EGR Valve gasket ? And if so how much did it cost, was the part available off the shelf with Mass ?

[shibujp]

@gmminc
There was no mention of the EGR gasket change in the bill. I don't think they did it.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[shibujp]

hi Folks,

In short I feel the EGR cleaning has been worth the time and expense.

After around 1500 kms post cleaning the pickup is smoother and brisker especially the in gear responses. The engine has become more refined and the diesel clatter is very subdued. It used to be very prominent especially when cold.

I feel that three things help in maintaining a smooth, refined engine response
1. Air filter - Around 500 kms after the EGr cleaning the engine response went down and I was having to downshift into 2nd in situation where 3rd gear used to be sufficient. My air filter that i usually clean every 5000 kms had not been cleaned for over 7000 kms. Took it out and tapped it on the garage wall - the dust that had accumulated was crazy. Put it back in an the engine was back to normal - PS : it taked around 20 -30 kms for the engine to adjust to the increased air flow. Be patient

2. Oil level - The correct engine oil level ensure smooth operation of the turbo which otherwise spools up sluggishly if oil is overfilled. I usually carry out the oil changes myself.

3. EGR cleaning - My experience with this is that it has to be cleaned as per the service manual. It definitely makes a difference. Lower engine noise, better in gear responses, and refinement.

Notwithstanding the above factors fuel from a not so reputable pump gave my car a tough time for 500 kms or so. Two refills from a better pump have improved the situation greatly. I might request for a cleaning of my fuel tank when the next service happens.

Now all the above three things came to my notice through various posts by members of this forum which started me on my own investigations and trials. Air filter and oil level courtesy Jaggu's thread and the EGR cleaning in the 2 lac review by epicenter.rulez. Thanks guys!! In a nutshell TeamBHP ROCKS!!

Drive on,
Shibu

[shibujp]

Hi folks,

I am confused.

The object that confuses me is an oil filter.

I went to an Genuine Maruti spares shop yesterday for an oil filter for my Swift diesel and found that they didn't have any. So today I went to a local spares shop and got one. Well the only problem is the price they charged me - or rather what they didn't charge me.

The filter cost 120/- against the normal 376/- charged for the one from a Maruti dealer or spares shop.

The filter is from a company called Lumax. i am half a mind to plonk it in and try it out. What is the worst that could happen? Should I or shouldn't I? What are your thoughts??

Drive on,
Shibu.

[Jaggu]

Well if its original Lumax worth a try (since they are a reputed manufacturer), cost reduction might be due to this being manufactured locally. But double check since there are many fake's in this market.