[Guderian]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

A. Thank you HG for your kind words. Good to see old friends here.

Hi Manuuj,
Thanks for the detailed 'puncturised' note ! You bet it helps.
I am also a little uncomfortable with the flat being fixed without the tyre
being removed from the rim. Somehow feel as though it is a half done work.
That flipping of tyres is called ulta-palti here - but hardly anyone does it - though I insist getting it done once every 30-35K KMs. It helps the even wear of the treads a lot.
The puncture repair charges appear to be almost the same here in Amchi Mumbai.

And yes - hope they open that long ready expressway real soon !

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Additionally since all tyres were taken off the rims i had them "reversed" also so that the side which was on the inside of the rim now faced the outside. This leads to an even wear and longer tyre life.

Hope this helps

Manuuj please do check your tires. Some tires, rather most that I have seen have a specific inside and outside marking on the sidewalls. They are not meant to be reversed in this manner. Again it might be fine for your tyres if they don't have those markings, but just be sure.

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Manuuj please do check your tires. Some tires, rather most that I have seen have a specific inside and outside marking on the sidewalls. They are not meant to be reversed in this manner. Again it might be fine for your tyres if they don't have those markings, but just be sure.

Upon your say so i just went and looked at the tyres. They have the exact same markings on both sides. I suppose that would make them suitable to be used in any side or running direction also.

Thanks for the heads up though!

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

The 180 odd kilometeres to Noida were dispatched in one hour and 20 minutes.

Manuuj,
I m back after a 2 hr TD of the new Fortuner and noticed a few things and wanted your opinion on them:
1. The ride was hard. We were 3 of us in the car, one female SA, lean and light, one driver, weighing around 65kg I presume and myself at 71kgs. The tire pressure, as told to me by the driver was Toyota recommended 33 psi. The road out of my neighbourhood is a cement road and I could literally feel each and every joint of the road at the steering wheel and the seat.
On the highway too, I could feel everything that the tires were going over.

Is that how you feel too?

2. The ac was not as effective as Hariya's, without sun film and secondly, if I turned the rear cooler on, in speed 3, with me sitting in the second row behind the driver, I could clearly hear the ac air coming out of the vents for the last row bottle holder. The noise was pretty audible. Is this the way it is?

3. The gears were not slick shifting, compared to Hariya. I had to really shove the gear lever to make it shift, at least to first and second gears. The vehicle had done 7790kms.

4. There was considerable wind noise, which started at 100kmph and went all the way 165kmph, which is as fast as I could go and the increase in noise was directly proportional to the speed. In fact, at 140kmph and above, I could clearly hear noise from all the 4 passenger doors. Do you also have the same observation?


Thank you for your inputs.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I m back after a 2 hr TD of the new Fortuner and noticed a few things and wanted your opinion on them:
1. The ride was hard. We were 3 of us in the car, one female SA, lean and light, one driver, weighing around 65kg I presume and myself at 71kgs. The tire pressure, as told to me by the driver was Toyota recommended 33 psi. The road out of my neighbourhood is a cement road and I could literally feel each and every joint of the road at the steering wheel and the seat.
On the highway too, I could feel everything that the tires were going over.

Is that how you feel too?

2. The ac was not as effective as Hariya's, without sun film and secondly, if I turned the rear cooler on, in speed 3, with me sitting in the second row behind the driver, I could clearly hear the ac air coming out of the vents for the last row bottle holder. The noise was pretty audible. Is this the way it is?

3. The gears were not slick shifting, compared to Hariya. I had to really shove the gear lever to make it shift, at least to first and second gears. The vehicle had done 7790kms.

4. There was considerable wind noise, which started at 100kmph and went all the way 165kmph, which is as fast as I could go and the increase in noise was directly proportional to the speed. In fact, at 140kmph and above, I could clearly hear noise from all the 4 passenger doors. Do you also have the same observation?

1. The ride, though certainly bumpy, is not that bad. It certainly seems like a point of over inflated tyres. Do not trust the drivers for the correct tyre pressure. Also the company recommended tyre pressure is 30 psi and not 33.
2. The AC on the Fortuner is a absolute chiller and I see no reason for the New Fortuner to have anything less. May be it was an ill maintained test drive vehicle.
3. Same with the gear shift, absolutely smooth. I have not found any cause of worry with my Fortuner's gear shift and it again looks like a maintainence issue of the test drive vehicle.
4. Fortuner is not meant to be driven at 165kmph. It will definitely cause some wind noise. But drive it at 120~140 and it will cruise all day. Also passenger door noise and other factors at mentioned earlier, all point to the fact that there was something wrong with your test drive vehicle.

Ask for another test drive on a better maintained vehicle.

[nilanjanray]

I support dkaile's points. While the Fortuner is bumpy, 33 psi would make it more so. I can feel the difference between 30 (the normal pressure I use) and 32 (pressure used for highway trips)

There is noise over 100kmph, but not as much as you have experienced. Gear shift is smooth. AC works very well in a Fortuner. No idea about last row vent, since I have never sat there.

Bumpiness and some wind noise over 100kmph would be there in any case. Things one needs to live with.

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Manuuj,

1. The ride was hard. We were 3 of us in the car, one female SA, lean and light, one driver, weighing around 65kg I presume and myself at 71kgs.
On the highway too, I could feel everything that the tires were going over. Is that how you feel too?
2. The ac was not as effective as Hariya's, without sun film and secondly, r the last row bottle holder. The noise was pretty audible. Is this the way it is?
3. The gears were not slick shifting, compared to Hariya.
4. There was considerable wind noise, Do you also have the same observation?

Thanks for your continued participation on the thread Sir. Much appreciated. I shall answer your Q's one by one.

1. The ride was hard.

The Fortuner ride is on the harder and bumpy side of the spectrum for sure. The Pajeros ride is far less bumpy. That said 33psi is a bit on the higher side though that is the exact pressure i keep my tyres on in the interest of better mileage.

The feedback from the steering of the road surface is excellent. I too feel most of the bumps and crevices at lower speeds. Here is the catch though.
Earlier i would slow down to a crawl on bad stretches and that would allow me to feel the contour and family history of each pothole or bump on the road that i encountered. Once i was in a hurry and took the same exact stretch at speed. Barely felt a thing.

All the same the Fortuner is an SUV with fairly good Offroad capabilities. This means that the company has to engineer the suspension keeping in view both on road and off road use.

Too soft a suspension will be useless offroad.

On a recent trip to Lucknow my dad who was on the back seat did complain of the harsh ride. He is used to the cossetted ride of cars though. Reducing tyre pressure to company recommended 30 psi does improve things though i must say.

2. The ac was not as effective as Hariya's, I could clearly hear the ac air coming out of the vents for the last row bottle holder.

The AC question has be flummoxed. The Fortuner's HVAC is on of its very STRONG points. Mine can be standing under the baking sun all day long and cool the cabin very effectively. All i do to help is vent out the hot air, put the AC on "Recirculate" and Temp setting to "COLD". Within a matter of minutes everyone is feeling quite comfortable.

I feel you may have tested a car whose HVAC filter had not been cleaned/replaced in a while.

As far as noise from the rearmost bottle holders when the rear AC and Blower is on on maximum speed (Fortuner has a twin compressor/condensor..one for front and another for back) goes i have noticed it also and is that noise is there in every Fortuner. It is the noise of air being piped through the rearmost bottle holders. When the rear fan is on a lower setting this noise also disappears.

But the AC's chilling capabilities are beyond doubt.

3. The gears were not slick shifting

Another very surprising complaint. No doubt the test car has been abused and the clutch is in bad shape. I change gears with a couple of fingers. The throw is long i agree but the gears find their slots very easily.

4. There was considerable wind noise, which started at 100kmph and went all the way 165kmph

The Fortuner does generate some wind noise and tyre noise at speeds over 100 kmph and especially at speeds over 140 kmph. I think the huge wing mirrors also are a culprit in that.
I must add though while trying to remain completely fair that most cars i have driven at those speeds generate wind noise. The only two i did not feel that in were the Bentley GT and the Range Rover but that can be attributted to better insulation and thicker glass all around.

As far as wind noise coming in from doors goes it just reinforces my beleif that the vehicle you were driving was in very bad shape.

I suspect strongly it has been in an accident of some type that has affected it in a very bad way. If it was a test drive Fortuner you can be sure its a pretty abused vehicle.

If you are ever in Delhi you are most welcome to take my 2 year 58,000 kms old Fortuner for a test drive.

I am sure you will be pleased.

Hope this helps

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by dkaile

1. The ride, though certainly bumpy, is not that bad. It certainly seems like a point of over inflated tyres. Do not trust the drivers for the correct tyre pressure. Also the company recommended tyre pressure is 30 psi and not 33.

I asked them to check and revert with the correct tire pressure so that point is open, but like Mannuj has said, the ride is on the bumpier side.

Originally Posted by dkaile

2. The AC on the Fortuner is a absolute chiller and I see no reason for the New Fortuner to have anything less. May be it was an ill maintained test drive vehicle.

All Fortuner owners are equivocal about the ac performance so I believe that the ac was indeed not at its best in this vehicle.

Originally Posted by dkaile

3. Same with the gear shift, absolutely smooth. I have not found any cause of worry with my Fortuner's gear shift and it again looks like a maintainence issue of the test drive vehicle.

This is weird, it was a new vehicle, very well maintained, at least on the exterior and had done only 9k kms on the odo.

Originally Posted by dkaile

4. Fortuner is not meant to be driven at 165kmph. It will definitely cause some wind noise. But drive it at 120~140 and it will cruise all day. Also passenger door noise and other factors at mentioned earlier, all point to the fact that there was something wrong with your test drive vehicle.

Ask for another test drive on a better maintained vehicle.

I m aware that the Fortuner is not meant for sedan speeds but the point here was the wind noise which was so prominent that the SA agreed to check and revert. And while testing any vehicle, I test all its parameters, without exception and wind noise at any speed, especially from the doors is something which does not exist on my 80k kms done 5 yr old Hariya, at any speed.


OT: Does your Superb have wind noise at high speeds?

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I support dkaile's points. While the Fortuner is bumpy, 33 psi would make it more so. I can feel the difference between 30 (the normal pressure I use) and 32 (pressure used for highway trips)

This is something that I will recheck and revert.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

There is noise over 100kmph, but not as much as you have experienced. Gear shift is smooth. AC works very well in a Fortuner. No idea about last row vent, since I have never sat there.

I m surprised, because I found it pretty hard, and not just me but by the way the driver was changing gears in the return journey, I could make out the amount of effort he was putting to do so.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Bumpiness and some wind noise over 100kmph would be there in any case. Things one needs to live with.

Hmmm....so these things do exist.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Thanks for your continued participation on the thread Sir. Much appreciated. I shall answer your Q's one by one.

1. The ride was hard.

The Fortuner ride is on the harder and bumpy side of the spectrum for sure. The Pajeros ride is far less bumpy. That said 33psi is a bit on the higher side though that is the exact pressure i keep my tyres on in the interest of better mileage.

The feedback from the steering of the road surface is excellent. I too feel most of the bumps and crevices at lower speeds. Here is the catch though.
Earlier i would slow down to a crawl on bad stretches and that would allow me to feel the contour and family history of each pothole or bump on the road that i encountered. Once i was in a hurry and took the same exact stretch at speed. Barely felt a thing.

So I guess, it is a different style of driving that one needs to adopt here. But at high speeds, how is the steering feedback, especially over rutted, undulating roads?

Originally Posted by Manuuj

All the same the Fortuner is an SUV with fairly good Offroad capabilities. This means that the company has to engineer the suspension keeping in view both on road and off road use.

Too soft a suspension will be useless offroad.

On a recent trip to Lucknow my dad who was on the back seat did complain of the harsh ride. He is used to the cossetted ride of cars though. Reducing tyre pressure to company recommended 30 psi does improve things though i must say.

The rear was as bouncy as Hariya, is what I could easily notice and yes, the Fortuner continues to be awesome off road since I had taken this vehicle off road for around a kilometer.
Now I know why you wanted to improve its ride quality, especially at the rear.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

The AC question has be flummoxed. The Fortuner's HVAC is on of its very STRONG points. Mine can be standing under the baking sun all day long and cool the cabin very effectively. All i do to help is vent out the hot air, put the AC on "Recirculate" and Temp setting to "COLD". Within a matter of minutes everyone is feeling quite comfortable.

I feel you may have tested a car whose HVAC filter had not been cleaned/replaced in a while.

Dunno but the SA told me that the vehicle was serviced last weekend, it was a 2012 vehicle with 9k kms on the odo.

As far as noise from the rearmost bottle holders when the rear AC and Blower is on on maximum speed (Fortuner has a twin compressor/condensor..one for front and another for back) goes i have noticed it also and is that noise is there in every Fortuner. It is the noise of air being piped through the rearmost bottle holders. When the rear fan is on a lower setting this noise also disappears.[/quote]
Hmmm, that needs another check then.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Another very surprising complaint. No doubt the test car has been abused and the clutch is in bad shape. I change gears with a couple of fingers. The throw is long i agree but the gears find their slots very easily.

I too am surprised, since all of you say that the Fortuner's gears are smooth shifting.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

The Fortuner does generate some wind noise and tyre noise at speeds over 100 kmph and especially at speeds over 140 kmph. I think the huge wing mirrors also are a culprit in that.
I must add though while trying to remain completely fair that most cars i have driven at those speeds generate wind noise. The only two i did not feel that in were the Bentley GT and the Range Rover but that can be attributted to better insulation and thicker glass all around.

As far as wind noise coming in from doors goes it just reinforces my beleif that the vehicle you were driving was in very bad shape.

I suspect strongly it has been in an accident of some type that has affected it in a very bad way. If it was a test drive Fortuner you can be sure its a pretty abused vehicle.

Like I said, it appeared to be a brand new vehicle and pretty well maintained, looks like it is time I TDed another one then.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

If you are ever in Delhi you are most welcome to take my 2 year 58,000 kms old Fortuner for a test drive.

Thank you for the offer Manuuj, I will certainly check out your car the next time I m in Delhi, which should happen pretty soon.

A BIG "Thank You" to Manuuj, Nilanjan and Dkaile for your answers. I will now, TD a different vehicle, in detail and revert.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I m aware that the Fortuner is not meant for sedan speeds but the point here was the wind noise which was so prominent that the SA agreed to check and revert. And while testing any vehicle, I test all its parameters, without exception and wind noise at any speed, especially from the doors is something which does not exist on my 80k kms done 5 yr old Hariya, at any speed.

OT: Does your Superb have wind noise at high speeds?

In such a bulky vehicle wind noise will definitely be there but not to the extent that you get disturbed. I usually drive around 100~120 on our highways in the Fortuner and have had no cause of concern with the wind noise. Door noise is certainly non existent in my Fortuner. Also, noise=sound, is a highly personalised criteria and every person will behave differently to his perception of ideal ambient noise. Maybe you were expecting better sound insulation from a 24L vehicle.

I have done max around 160 on the Superb and found its comfort levels most satisfying and much better than any SUV, but then that is to be expected of a sedan.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Maybe you were expecting better sound insulation from a 24L vehicle.

I was expecting the same NVH levels, if not lesser than my 10lac INR Hariya who is now 5 yrs old, but was disappointed, at least with this example.

Originally Posted by dkaile

I have done max around 160 on the Superb and found its comfort levels most satisfying and much better than any SUV, but then that is to be expected of a sedan.

Precisely why I walked into a Skoda showroom today to have a serious look at the Laura L&K DSG. Once, in the cabin , I could immediately feel a world of difference, even though I didn't drive it at all. That is what I expect out of 2 million INR, even if it is an SUV.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Manuuj please do check your tires. Some tires, rather most that I have seen have a specific inside and outside marking on the sidewalls. They are not meant to be reversed in this manner. Again it might be fine for your tyres if they don't have those markings, but just be sure.

Absolutely right. I used to follow this practice on all my earlier vehicles and I did achieve a prolonged tyre life, no doubt.
However, all those tyres allowed one to do this. The newer gen vehicle tyres cleary say outside and inside so one must follow the manufacturer's recommendtions.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

If you are ever in Delhi you are most welcome to take my 2 year 58,000 kms old Fortuner for a test drive.

Hi Manuuj,

I m at the NCR from the 26th-29th instant would like to take a long and serious look at your Fortuner, if you have the time for it.

I will call you at a convenient date and time if you PM me your number and can meet up accordingly.

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Hi Manuuj,

I m at the NCR from the 26th-29th instant would like to take a long and serious look at your Fortuner, if you have the time for it.

I will call you at a convenient date and time if you PM me your number and can meet up accordingly.

That would be great. I should be in Delhi on Friday the 29th. First 2-3 days of days of every week i am usually travelling for work out of town. I shall PM u my details and we can set up to meet somewhere in the middle of town.

Look forward to meeting you.

[nitinbose]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

All Fortuner owners are equivocal about the ac performance so I believe that the ac was indeed not at its best in this vehicle.

This is weird, it was a new vehicle, very well maintained, at least on the exterior and had done only 9k kms on the odo.

I m aware that the Fortuner is not meant for sedan speeds but the point here was the wind noise which was so prominent that the SA agreed to check and revert.


I m surprised, because I found it pretty hard, and not just me but by the way the driver was changing gears in the return journey, I could make out the amount of effort he was putting to do so.

The Fortuner A/C is definitely a plus and cools quickly, indeed without sunfilms the effect may be slower.

The gear shift is indeed very tight and does not always slot in timely. You do have to "shove" in the gears so that your rpm does not go down critically. Above all, the gear stick is too tall making it worse.

The Fortuner does require to be fine tuned to high speeds as well because nobody buys it purely for off-roading and crawling speeds. If you take a look at the LC200, its maximum speed is 260kph, which means it should to 200 kph easily. So the Tfort should be on similar lines.

I'd say Toyota has purely designed for MUV purpose (as mentioned in the manual) so havent given much details to the drive feel.

[nilanjanray]

Manuuj,

I might coming down in November to do Corbett, kaladunghi and Pangot. If you are free around then, we can take the white and the black beasts to Corbett for some drives, offroading and photoshoots.

@ Nitin: driving a tall SUV - whether a Land Cruiser or something else - at such high speeds - is asking for trouble.

@ Nitin:

I find the gears pretty smooth, though not smooth as a sedan's. Only time I had issues was when I was on a long road trip, and got used to driving on 5th gear for long stretches on empty roads. , When I came back and entered Bangalore, I was subconsciously trying to slot into 5th gear when I wanted to use 3rd gear :-)