[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Hey guys,
The car has finally done 50Kkm, in about 5.5 years, and I thought this would be a good time to update the review.

Well then let's have it, shall we?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

To be honest, I was a bit disappointed with the car during her 4th year with us. The main reason being the lack of reliability due to some parts failing

LOL! Same here. Mercs seem to have the "4th year itch" built into them.

plan on switching to regular diesel from a COCO pump as GTO advised me in his thread.

Regular diesel = zero smoke. My C220 at 65,000 kms doesn't smoke at all, even under hard acceleration.

The horn never seems to work when I need it to! It has been replaced a countless number of times till date.

Staple problem with Euro cars. After replacing my OEM n number of times in the warranty, I've now switched over to an after-market unit. Recommended.

It is also important to mention that the car also rattles in a few places on rough roads.

I'm very surprised to hear of this, Lambo. My Merc is the family highway car and thus, has been over some pretty rough patches. One of the most redeeming qualities of the car is zero rattle or vibration. Where exactly are you hearing the rattles from?

let me also add that the rest of the car is exactly how it was on day one.
Take for example the paint. She is still shining like she did on day one, as long as she is given a yearly wax.

Try Pervez (Mazda Motors) for your next polish job. Linky to detailing job on my car. That said, Mercs age very well (aesthetically).

The immense torque, coupled with a heavy steering make this car a perfect city-highway car, and given that this is the most rugged of all the other Germans just helps improve things.

Well put. The E is an acknowledged workhorse.

Maintain her well, and she will look after you. However, at the same time, don't expect stellar reliability, and know that when something goes wrong, a big bill is about to come.

Worthy advice for anyone considering a used W211 (so many of them in the market!).

Most of the service costs are around Rs 10K - related to synthetic engine oil and a few others.
Got a reliable independent mechanic.

With a 7 liter oil tank, and Mobil 1 MRP of 1,000 bucks a liter, the oil alone costs 7,000 at Auto Hangar!

Thanks for sharing the review, Lambo.

[lamborghini]

@flyingspur - the review is up. The earlier post was a mistake.

@GTO - I really want to try out Mazda Motors. Will try it out this time before the monsoons. The rattles are from the passenger side B pillar, and near the passenger side A.C. vents on the dash. Yesterday we got the exhaust cleaned with a pipe, and as of now, there is no smoke coming out under HARD acceleration. Though I will be doing the switch the regular diesel on all the cars. Looking out for a reliable pump that has regular diesel still, as the one near our house has a very shady appearance.
Also, the pics didn't load in the earlier post si I have uploaded them again.
Do note that this car has been pampered the most in the house.

[Ramsagar]

I feel very sorry looking at the kind of materials they have used.
Even after begin more pampered car in your garage.

[lamborghini]

Hey guys,

Here is a 60KKm review of the car. Over the last 10Kkm, we have:

- replaced the headlights, as they were very dull and impossible to see anything during the night. While this has improved things somewhat, I wish the car came with Xenons!

- replaced the turbo this Jan.

- Car broke down on me the first time I got the keys to take it out for a spin by myself. Was going for a seminar, and exhaust gave away or something like that due to clogging. Not sure if it was the turbo, or the exhaust. However, the car started vibrating harshly, and gave out a lot of smoke. Accelerating was weak as well.

- Continues belching out smoke under hard acceleration! Also, the FE is around 6kmpl right now.

- At present, the engine feels laboured to cross 100kmph, and the gears do not downshift or upshift when required. I have taken it to the redline while accelerating mildly, and while going uphill, it refused to downshift, even with the accelerator floored!
Anyone know what the reason could be?

- Got the horn replaced with an aftermarket one. While the new one doesn't sound European (more Japanese), it works!!

This is something that has happened over the weekend, so getting it checked out tomorrow and will update.
However, due to the problems arising from the lack of quality control at Mercedes, we are contemplating selling this car in the next year. We might even speed up the process if the bills come out to be very high, while putting the fiesta replacement on a back-burner for now. Contenders are the new E250 CDI, and the A6 2.0TDi when launched.

Apart from that, the ride quality has me impressed! Test drove a few cars, and the way the Merc handles bad roads just had me smiling. Nothing came close to the planted and stable feel this car gives out.
In addition, the paint quality is still superb, as is the strength of the material used in the body. Recently my driver met with a minor accident, and while the other car suffered a dent, I had a hard time telling where the impact was on our car! The BMW E60 on the other hand doesn't impart as strong a sense of safety and build strength as this car does.

However, I am very disappointed with the reliability of our car, and even though it is among the more reliable E Classes sold so far, it is no solace for such problems arising out of a Rs50L car. The 525d on the other hand has not given a single problem in its 3 years with us, the same holds for the Octavia which is completing 4 years soon (apart from the rubber door beadings giving away, and an ill-fitting interior panel). Even the Fiesta which is the most used car in the house, as well as by others, has given way lesser problems than this car (and nothing as serious mind you). If Ford can do it right on a Rs 8L car, why can't Mercedes on their 50L car?
Do keep in mind that I have had problems with the A.C. and engine components, something which the Fiesta has as well.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

replaced the turbo this Jan.

Whoa! What & where? In only 60,000 kms?

At present, the engine feels laboured to cross 100kmph, and the gears do not downshift or upshift when required.

Who maintains your cars? Which garage changed the turbo?

However, due to the problems arising from the lack of quality control at Mercedes, we are contemplating selling this car in the next year.

I've come "this close" to selling the C220 due to its unreliability too. What's frustrating is that the problems are frequent, always hard to get to the root cause of, and always (I mean, always) result in 6 figure bills. Baah, Mercedes calls this quality, I call it rubbish.

If I had to go back and do it all over again, I'd have bought an Accord. Or, with current choices, the Fortuner. No complicated Germans for me.

it is no solace for such problems arising out of a Rs50L car. The 525d on the other hand has not given a single problem in its 3 years with us

I hope your 525d stays that way. Either ways, 3 years is too early to pass judgement. We'll have to wait until your Bimmer is 6 - 7 years old too.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by GTO

Whoa! What & where? In only 60,000 kms?

Yes. IIRC it had given a few issues earlier, and was due for replacement.

Who maintains your cars? Which garage changed the turbo?

Got this done at a Private garage, who maintains some of our other cars.
However, it seems the problem was traced to an issue with the exhaust clogging up due, an issue we have faced innumerable times before. Will drive the car one night and see the performance, but was quite happy with the performance in the city traffic today.

I've come "this close" to selling the C220 due to its unreliability too. What's frustrating is that the problems are frequent, always hard to get to the root cause of, and always (I mean, always) result in 6 figure bills. Baah, Mercedes calls this quality, I call it rubbish.

Exactly what I feel! Even if our car was maintained only by the A.S.S., I doubt there would be any change in its reliability. Just a lot bigger bills!

If I had to go back and do it all over again, I'd have bought an Accord. Or, with current choices, the Fortuner. No complicated Germans for me.

Naah! Once a german, its always another german. Wish Lexus was in town to show Mercedes how to do it right.
But even today, the E Class doesn't have a competitor that focuses on rear seat comfort. Sure the Superb is there, but today one needs some brand value as well.

I hope your 525d stays that way. Either ways, 3 years is too early to pass judgement. We'll have to wait until your Bimmer is 6 - 7 years old too.

True! Lets hope it doesn't spring any surprises like the Merc.

[lamborghini]

After driving it around for a while, this is what seems to be the problem. Experts, would appreciate any advice on how to fix it, and if it is serious. Most of the times the car is chauffeur driven, and rarely revved unless I am behind the wheels. If it isn't detrimental to the long term health of the car, I am fine with it existing.
The car runs perfectly otherwise, with good power from the engine, even though it is not as fast as it was when new. However, if one drives aggressively with downshifts often (not necessarily red-lining, but above 3K rpm), the gearbox/engine suddenly snaps and starts acting up after a few km of such driving. It refuses to revv beyond 2.5K, and the car refuses to downshift at any rpm, when made to (normal downshifting due to lower rpms still happens, but i can't floor the accelerator to make it down-shift like in other autos).
According to one guy, it is due to the amount of smoke emitted from the car when being revved hard, causing the engine to act in such a manner. Is there any truth to this?

[lamborghini]

Here's a quick snapshot of the car at 67KKm:

Over the last few months, this car has become my daily drive, replacing the fiesta (which is still going strong at 90Kkm from what I hear). At the moment, as I may be shifting to the USA in a couple of years, it didn't make sense to buy a new car. Also, given that dad loves this car, as it was his first German, it wasn't going anywhere.
Here's a quick summary of how it has been so far:

P.S: Consider this part of the review onwards from the perspective of a pre-owned 15L car, as that will be helpful for new car buyers, as well as a look from my perspective
Some relevant links:
2004 Mercedes Benz E270 CDI - lamborghini's Garage - Team-BHP
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...esta-tdci.html

What I love:
- The quality of interiors! Sure there were some loose parts, but for most part, the interiors are superb!
- Auto transmission + diesel!
- Small features such as the electric sun blind, superb audio system, one touch up/down for all windows etc.
- Ride quality
- Ability to mask speeds

What I don't:
- Expensive maintenance costs! I don't have complete piece of mind, as I know that if anything goes wrong, it will cost a bomb to fix!
- It's not a new car - I am very finicky about the car I use - It has to be perfect! Exteriors as well as mechanically!
- Handling is good, but could be better (compared to the E60 5 Series)
- Lethargic gearbox with no S mode. Heck, there is a lag even in tiptronic!

What I can live with:
- Performance
- Looks

What I don't understand:
- Why is there no Sunroof? Mercedes, really?
- Why are there dead bugs in the tail lights? I mean I know that Mercedes aren't bug free, but I didn't expect them to be so literal about it! First a cockroach in the HL, and now dead flies in the tail lights!

So, for the review:

I came back to India in June 2011, and was very content using the fiesta. However, with 80+Kkm on the odo, I knew its time was coming up. However, we also had a W211 E270 CDI in the family, that we had bought in 2004, and there were talks of replacing that with the new E250 CDI as well.
After a lot of research, it was evident that I loved the new VW Passat, and that the new E250 CDI wasn't going to satisfy me or my parents. So this got the ball rolling, and we decided to get a hatch to replace the Fiesta (Toyota Liva D), and I would use the W211 while dad got himself a new car.

I was understandably upset with the choice, as it wasn't sporty - its elegant, didn't have a great engine/gearbox issue, was 8 years old, no sunroof, little modification potential - more due to reliability + cost concerns. However, as of today, I am quite happy with the decision, though there are always those moments when I want a new car which I can maintain and look after from day 1 - but I console myself by saying that I'll get one once I am back here for good, as I might go out of country after a couple of years.

Since the decision was made in Sept, i slowly started getting her back to shape, and Rs. 2L later, here we are:
- The exhaust had developed a leak leading to poor performance and excessive smoke - fixed.
- central locking system was making a few noises when the car was being locked
- the left ORVM was hit by a biker and broken - replaced for Rs. 60K
- New Michelin Primacy LC tyres - wanted something sporty, but lack of options in the market
- One injector was replaced
- New HID's as I was very disappointed with the throw of lights. Pictures below
- Mercedes sounding after market horn - given the original needed replacing every 2 months

Coming soon:
- A full engine service, including an engine flush - April
- Maintenance Work: Interior roof lining is coming off, rear ashtray was broken by my nephew, adjustments to be made due to the HIDs (getting an error message)
- Tinted Windows - April

At the moment, I am in complete love with the fact that it has an Auto, gives me an FE of 8kmpl in the city traffic with some redlining, its superbly comfortable, and most importantly - driving long distances is smooth!
Also, the AC is quite a chiller, and the music system has great sound - easily the best OE system I have heard.
Overall, I doubt that the Skoda Laura which was the best sub-20L car, would have kept me as happy. Heck, when I drive the E60 5 series, I miss how the merc goes over the potholes, and how grounded it feels over bumps!
Everything said and done, for the segment it was targeting, there was really no car better than the E Class when it came down to sheer comfort - and that is a very important concern for majority of buyers.
Also, I have gotten used to the size of the car, so I am quite comfortable with it, except that I can't leave it parked on the road due to fear of getting it scratched. However, on that note, I did make a mistake and scratch the left HL and grill a little on a truck that cut me off.
Also, the paint is fading in a couple of spots, as well as getting a few bubbles - and this worries me, as it means a new paint job might be in the pipelines. But hopefully the car will be sold before these become visible.

An embarrassing story is that it took me 8 years to finally figure out that the system plays MP3s! Put it in the CD Changer, wait for the MP3 to load (about a couple of minutes), and enjoy the tracks on the drive!
If there are any questions, do ask!
At the moment, I think that a pre-owned E Class would be a great buy for anyone looking out for sub-20L car. But one for 15L, and keep 5L for maintenance! However, don't expect a good night's rest if anything goes wrong.

Some pics:
Front View with the new lights:

Rear Pic:

Headlight with HIDs:

Headlight Low Beam:

Headlight High Beam:


If there are any questions, do let me know. Also, I will update this thread as time passes by.

[black12rr]

- the left ORVM was hit by a biker and broken - replaced for Rs. 60K .That's a bomb .

Did i read it correctly ? ,what about sourcing it from outside ? No insurance for this ?

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by black12rr

- the left ORVM was hit by a biker and broken - replaced for Rs. 60K .That's a bomb .

Did i read it correctly ? ,what about sourcing it from outside ? No insurance for this ?

Yes sir! You read correctly!
Hope that explains the high maintenance costs, and the fear of huge bills should something go wrong!

[benz220]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Yes sir! You read correctly!
Hope that explains the high maintenance costs, and the fear of huge bills should something go wrong!

Hi sent you a PM regarding an ECU for a 2004 E270 CDI. You seem to have a really good handle on these cars, so if you have a source that can provide a used one, it would greatly help.

Bosch part A 6471532079.

Thanks

[nirav]

Wow, you have some commitment to the car and the brand in spite of knowing that if something does go wrong (a fair chance) then you are pretty much dead in the water! Im toying with the idea of getting a 08-09 W211, but am quite discouraged after reading yours and Mohnish's experiences. The car was great when new, but whats the point if it doesnt age well?! Its something i can understand in a 10 or even 15L car, but a 50L car? No excuse! I think the E60 bimmer might be a better bet for a self-driver like me- what say? Still a little confused so your thoughts would be appreciated, especially since you own both. I understand i would probably have to pay some sort of premium for the E60 over the W211, but it would save me a lot of headache if something goes wrong i think...

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by nirav

Wow, you have some commitment to the car and the brand in spite of knowing that if something does go wrong (a fair chance) then you are pretty much dead in the water! Im toying with the idea of getting a 08-09 W211, but am quite discouraged after reading yours and Mohnish's experiences. The car was great when new, but whats the point if it doesnt age well?! Its something i can understand in a 10 or even 15L car, but a 50L car? No excuse! I think the E60 bimmer might be a better bet for a self-driver like me- what say? Still a little confused so your thoughts would be appreciated, especially since you own both. I understand i would probably have to pay some sort of premium for the E60 over the W211, but it would save me a lot of headache if something goes wrong i think...

You want my honest answer?
Each of these two cars have a different character, and would make a world of a difference based on how you drive and where you drive. We are fortunate to own both the 2004 W211 as well as the 2008 E60 in the family, and I get to drive the E60 fairly often.
Here's my take on it:
W211 if:
- you want comfort
- the ability to handle bad roads without slowing down significantly - be it the undulations/potholes
E60 if:
- you just want a superb engine and handling
- More peace of mind - the E60 has been more reliable over the W211, though both have some rattles.

Personally, for India, I find the W211 better suited over the E60. Ask any BMW owner, and he will point out all the potholes in the area! After a while, it gets annoying to have to constantly slow down for the potholes and undulations, which you could just cruise over in the E. Many have mentioned switching over to tubeless would help the ride significantly, but it doesn't change the higher speed behavior of the car when it is flying over undulations and smashing into potholes. That is my biggest grouse with the E60, and any E Series BMW.
The W211 though is more comfortable than the new W212 IMO. Plus, it has better interiors in term of design and even some parts feel better than the W212. In fact, we considered swapping the W211 for a W212 E220 CDI/C250 CDI/E90 320d. However, the fact that the W211 is so comfortable makes it hard to find a replacement, and even the W212 doesn't feel as nice. At the moment, the replacement plans for this car are on hold for a few years.
Also, throw in the fact that the smaller turning radius, better paint quality for small scratches, etc. make it a boon to drive on Indian roads.
Sure reliability and some part quality is not top notch, and maintenance costs are higher for regular maintenance compared to a BMW. But even then

Before the BMW owners start flaming, do note that the e60 has a better steering feel, better reliability, lower maintenance costs, better handling, better visibility, better engine/gearbox combo. At the end, the roads should really decide what comes in your garage.
Personally, choose between the E280 CDI LE (with 17" alloys, better interiors, LED tail lights), and the 530d.
Peace of mind + good roads = 530D.
Ability to tackle any form of road + best in class comfort (even with today's 50L cars in mind) = E280 CDI
Maintenance costs can be tackled by importing parts (a member refurbished a W203 C Class with parts sourced from scrap yards in the UK IIRC - requires work, but worth the cost if you can handle it). Also, get a good independent mechanic who understands these Germans. Lastly, do keep in mind that if something does go wrong, it will still be expensive even if it is a BMW - keep a few lakhs spare for maintenance over the next 3-4 years.
Also, an option to play around with is a W124 E220 which is a classic still, plus a new Jetta Highline A/T for everyday use.

Hope this helps.

Regards the build quality - well, the car is at 70Kkm, and 8 years. There were problems with a few parts, but even then, she has aged quite well IMO. A few plastics notwithstanding, the fact that she can stay glued to the road at high triple digit speeds without any vibration or feeling of speed in the car is whats really called build quality.

EDIT: Saw you're based in Singapore as well as Bangalore. If you're buying the car to use in Singapore, get the E60 without a second thought. In India, still ponder over it a little.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by nirav

I think the E60 bimmer might be a better bet for a self-driver like me- what say?

Actually, If you drive on fairly decent roads, just get a E60 5 series. The car just feels so much younger to drive. Just be careful once the roads get bad though. I just drove the E60 525d right now, and drove the W211 E270 a couple of hours ago, and there's quite a huge difference in the characters of both - starting from the way the 6 cylinder loves to revv coupled with its chuckable nature of the 5 series. The E is a little bit more of a handful, and you are quite aware of its size unlike the 5 series. Besides, you can always get a superb pre-owned E Class once you have matured from the 5 series.
PS: If your running isn't much, do try and find a 530i! Great deals on used petrols currently!