BMW E60 525d @ 50,000 kms. EDIT : Breakdown pic!

Sahil · 8th October 2010, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by black12rr

Sahil ,update when BMW reverts back . Ask for an additional year BSI ?

I wonder how many ppl (BMW owners ) who are not as knowledgeable are you/we , would just accept as their fault and just pay up .Bcos they don't know what a timing belt or what a RFT is ? and how many dealers would just pass blame to customers and fork out from them

I haven't contacted BMW directly, I am not looking for compensation by getting additional BSI etc. I just want my peace of mind back.

I'll BMW dealerships the benefit of doubt there, they are pretty honest both Navnit and Infinity. Hence passing the blame to customers seems unlikely.

Akki_5 · 8th October 2010, 20:04

I can pretty much relate to how you must've felt Sahil. Just glad that you had Maverick for immediate assistance. See my thread: Mercedes E280 CDI - on a flatbed because of rear differential

abk · 10th October 2010, 07:40

Sahil, you are not alone, mate

Who is going to start the German reliability thread? Not that I've much to contribute but would look forward to learning from it.

BeamerBoy · 10th October 2010, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sahil

I haven't contacted BMW directly, I am not looking for compensation by getting additional BSI etc. I just want my peace of mind back.

I'll BMW dealerships the benefit of doubt there, they are pretty honest both Navnit and Infinity. Hence passing the blame to customers seems unlikely.

I am sorry to hear about the breakdown and truly understand how would you feel taking the car out again. Hopefully once it is fixed and once you manage to use it hassle free for 2-3 months, this experience will fade away and you will have a stressfree ride.

BTW, I like your approach of giving due credit to the Mumbai dealers. My experience in Delhi is the same. I had just 1 suspension failure in about 4 years now. Bird was quick to fix and I am back with my confidence level in the machine. The Service Advisors may come out sometime to be dicey in their approach but when you have a word with the service manager, things get settled.

Is your car back from the works? Did they check it thoroughly? With BSI, you have a blank check. Any faults that they find will be fixed without cutting corners

Sahil · 10th October 2010, 15:04

@BeamerBoy- the car was back next day itself, had mentioned it earlier in this thread too. I agree BSI does give peace of mind and save a lot of money,but I have a feel that on the down side the cars are not as thoroughly checked for part failures. It would be unfair to blame the dealership since I have BSI but in most of my other cars the dealerships always keep asking to change parts to make a hefty bill. With BMW you have to mention a fault rather than them dig it out for you. For instance my front suspension was changed as it gave way but only after i complained of harsh ride, likewise the engine mounts were worn out and replaced after I complained of shuddering.
Would these worn out parts be discovered and changed without me complaining is debatable. IMO, the cars should be regularly thoroughly checked for wear and tear irrespective of customer complaining.

bottle · 10th October 2010, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I'm going to upload it to a new thread, highlighting how flat beds would go out of business if it weren't for the German car marques. Think of it, have you seen any non-German car on a flatbed? The last 6 cars I've seen have been either a Mercedes or a BMW (including one MH registered car in Goa!)

Interesting point, I did see a Polo on a flat bed here in Chennai and once a Porsche. I did hear that Ford uses flatbed trucks too but haven't seen them in action

BeamerBoy · 11th October 2010, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sahil

...It would be unfair to blame the dealership since I have BSI but in most of my other cars the dealerships always keep asking to change parts to make a hefty bill.
...
Would these worn out parts be discovered and changed without me complaining is debatable. IMO, the cars should be regularly thoroughly checked for wear and tear irrespective of customer complaining.

In heaven, you will have rivers flowing with milk and honey AND your cars will be thoroughly checked. Ah I wish it happened in real life.

IMO, it is a bitter truth. We drive cars and we take a lot of chances. In real world, the repairer will check a car basis some checksheet but that's it. A thorough check, I mean REALLY THOROUGH is something that happens in fiction.

I personally am a big fan of BSI. I know that the dealer raises an invoice to BMW at the same price as it does to the customer. In fact they use the same checksheets. Hence no reason to short change the customer.

To top it over, my Service Advisor says "Boss, aap ki gadi ki koee tension nahi. Aaram se inspection aur phir repair". According to him, a BSI customer is a neat job. The advisor does not need to prepare any estimate and then haggle with a customer and so, he can have a thorougher repair than a non BSI car. I personally buy that logic.

For the E60s & E66 the damper pulley has a shorter life. It is known and the dealer should check it. Sadly, it never appears in any BMW checksheet that I know off.

Dose · 12th October 2010, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Hey Sahil,
I was under the impression that BMW was amongst the most reliable premium European vehicles.

According to the USA JD Power VDS, you were right. But for 2010, Merc and BMW have switched places on the list with Merc going above the industry average and BMW going below:

J.D.Power and Associates - Press Release
J.D.Power and Associates - Press Release

sanjayatarizona · 12th October 2010, 18:06

Sahil, this just proves that failure know no geographic boundaries

My 5'er has been giving me electronic hell for the past 6 months, but i still love the machine...

luky_13 · 13th October 2010, 12:52

Sahil, I can estimate the degree of heartburn a breakdown of a top notch luxury sedan can cause. More so when your blood and sweat has gone into it. Reading your story i too believe that the Jap's have the reliability department sorted out much better than the germans.

I'm now seriously mulling over my Polo 1.6 booking!

sridhar-v · 13th October 2010, 21:27

I am doing a lot of Engineering work for the Auto sector. So such reports of failure are not unexpected. Basically there is a trade off between quality and prices. There is also a change in sub-system's performance depending on the environmental(in a very broad sense) and usage factors.

As the germans are charging premium prices there is no justification for quality issues. But then i know for eg. that Mercedes Benz subcontracts the Axles assly(from imported CKD kits) to vendors in Pune & gives the work to the lowest bidder. If price negotiated is too cheap the the vendor will cut corners. So quality suffers. Must be the same with BMW sub-asslys. Maintaining a fine balance between cost cutting & Quality is a trick that only Maruti & Hyundai seem to have mastered in the Indian context. It also helps that they have volumes to enable system efficiencies.

Could be that some of the sub-asslys being used by the germans are not suited to our conditions. But then this is always caught out if the vehicles are extensively tested locally before retail sales. So looks like some cost cutting & short cuts there also.

I have been owning Maruti cars since 1984. In the mid 1990s Maruti's quality had detiorated due to mindless cost-cutting. They have now tightened up their systems and substantially improved quality to a level where you can say that you will never get a catastrophic breakdown. I have also got a Ford Fusion but would rate the quality one step below the Japs & koreans.

Hyundai is even better than Maruti as far as quality goes. Tata motors just does not get it. Mahindra is better than Tata but still has a lot of catching up to do.

YSooSeriouss · 13th October 2010, 23:55

Saw a grey M3 E92 on a flat bed at peddar road a couple of days ago ! I am serious !

akshaymahajan · 14th October 2010, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by YSooSeriouss

Saw a grey M3 E92 on a flat bed at peddar road a couple of days ago ! I am serious !

Haha..Dont worry.

That's in perfect running condition. Just went in for some mods. I think its owned by our insiderman.
Here is a link with all the modifications done to it.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/super-...ml#post2105022

swiftnfurious · 14th October 2010, 09:41

Thats bad Sahil ! I feel sorry for the other guys also who had trouble with their cars.

But then I get this thought ! Do all the Euro cars have trouble else where also? Or are these problems only pertaining to the Indian versions? If its internationally happeneing, what are these guys doing about it?

I thought these guys command the premium because they use superior products. And how can such a superior parts / products get damaged in such a short time [For me 5 years and less is quite a less time for a car, 5-10 years is medium term and anything beyond 10 years is a huge time for a car. And yes, the kilometers done in the time frame also matters]

rxpaul · 14th October 2010, 10:16

Maybee we don't see Jap/ Korean cars on flatbeds because
1.They are all FWDs and can be towed away by the respective workshop breakdown service cars despite problems in the drive train or engine.
2. The German RWD cars & AWD cars can't be towed away similarly
3. German car owners are usually petrolheads and would prefer their cars carried rather than towed away.

I used to own an E36 which rode on a Flatbed Chariot quite frequently.....but i loved her dearly.....when i sold her, i had tears in my eyes.

8th October 2010, 20:04	#32
Akki_5 Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 311 Thanked: 67 Times	I can pretty much relate to how you must've felt Sahil. Just glad that you had Maverick for immediate assistance. See my thread: Mercedes E280 CDI - on a flatbed because of rear differential Last edited by Akki_5 : 8th October 2010 at 20:06.
	() Thanks

10th October 2010, 07:40	#33
abk BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NOIDA / Gurgaon Posts: 277 Thanked: 15 Times	My E39 being towed Sahil, you are not alone, mate Who is going to start the German reliability thread? Not that I've much to contribute but would look forward to learning from it. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

10th October 2010, 15:04	#35
Sahil Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 6,292 Thanked: 7,607 Times	@BeamerBoy- the car was back next day itself, had mentioned it earlier in this thread too. I agree BSI does give peace of mind and save a lot of money,but I have a feel that on the down side the cars are not as thoroughly checked for part failures. It would be unfair to blame the dealership since I have BSI but in most of my other cars the dealerships always keep asking to change parts to make a hefty bill. With BMW you have to mention a fault rather than them dig it out for you. For instance my front suspension was changed as it gave way but only after i complained of harsh ride, likewise the engine mounts were worn out and replaced after I complained of shuddering. Would these worn out parts be discovered and changed without me complaining is debatable. IMO, the cars should be regularly thoroughly checked for wear and tear irrespective of customer complaining.
	() Thanks

12th October 2010, 18:06	#39
sanjayatarizona BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: "God's own Shaap" Posts: 354 Thanked: 10 Times	Sahil, this just proves that failure know no geographic boundaries My 5'er has been giving me electronic hell for the past 6 months, but i still love the machine...
	() Thanks

13th October 2010, 12:52	#40
luky_13 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 580 Thanked: 156 Times View My Garage	Sahil, I can estimate the degree of heartburn a breakdown of a top notch luxury sedan can cause. More so when your blood and sweat has gone into it. Reading your story i too believe that the Jap's have the reliability department sorted out much better than the germans. I'm now seriously mulling over my Polo 1.6 booking!
	() Thanks

13th October 2010, 21:27	#41
sridhar-v BHPian Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 851 Thanked: 1,674 Times	Reliability I am doing a lot of Engineering work for the Auto sector. So such reports of failure are not unexpected. Basically there is a trade off between quality and prices. There is also a change in sub-system's performance depending on the environmental(in a very broad sense) and usage factors. As the germans are charging premium prices there is no justification for quality issues. But then i know for eg. that Mercedes Benz subcontracts the Axles assly(from imported CKD kits) to vendors in Pune & gives the work to the lowest bidder. If price negotiated is too cheap the the vendor will cut corners. So quality suffers. Must be the same with BMW sub-asslys. Maintaining a fine balance between cost cutting & Quality is a trick that only Maruti & Hyundai seem to have mastered in the Indian context. It also helps that they have volumes to enable system efficiencies. Could be that some of the sub-asslys being used by the germans are not suited to our conditions. But then this is always caught out if the vehicles are extensively tested locally before retail sales. So looks like some cost cutting & short cuts there also. I have been owning Maruti cars since 1984. In the mid 1990s Maruti's quality had detiorated due to mindless cost-cutting. They have now tightened up their systems and substantially improved quality to a level where you can say that you will never get a catastrophic breakdown. I have also got a Ford Fusion but would rate the quality one step below the Japs & koreans. Hyundai is even better than Maruti as far as quality goes. Tata motors just does not get it. Mahindra is better than Tata but still has a lot of catching up to do.
	() Thanks

13th October 2010, 23:55	#42
YSooSeriouss BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Mumbai Posts: 196 Thanked: 2 Times	Saw a grey M3 E92 on a flat bed at peddar road a couple of days ago ! I am serious !
	() Thanks

14th October 2010, 09:41	#44
swiftnfurious Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 7,203 Thanked: 9,661 Times	Thats bad Sahil ! I feel sorry for the other guys also who had trouble with their cars. But then I get this thought ! Do all the Euro cars have trouble else where also? Or are these problems only pertaining to the Indian versions? If its internationally happeneing, what are these guys doing about it? I thought these guys command the premium because they use superior products. And how can such a superior parts / products get damaged in such a short time [For me 5 years and less is quite a less time for a car, 5-10 years is medium term and anything beyond 10 years is a huge time for a car. And yes, the kilometers done in the time frame also matters]
	() Thanks

14th October 2010, 10:16	#45
rxpaul BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 365 Thanked: 127 Times View My Garage	Maybee we don't see Jap/ Korean cars on flatbeds because 1.They are all FWDs and can be towed away by the respective workshop breakdown service cars despite problems in the drive train or engine. 2. The German RWD cars & AWD cars can't be towed away similarly 3. German car owners are usually petrolheads and would prefer their cars carried rather than towed away. I used to own an E36 which rode on a Flatbed Chariot quite frequently.....but i loved her dearly.....when i sold her, i had tears in my eyes.
	() Thanks