[Buffetfan]

My first Long Term Ownership Review on Team BHP.

In the past I have owned / Driven a Maruti 800 (Dad's car), Fiat Uno (the petrol 1.2 ELX with a special single point injection to derate the 72 bhp Sienna mill to 62 BHP), An Alto (the Launch model ~ used to be INR 3.5 lakhs or so in 2001 before Maruti put it through "lean Engineering"), A Baleno (Black Beauty love it over the past 70k kms and hope that I continue to own it forever), a Santro (Had to buy when my wife gave me the Rickety Uno and started driving my new Baleno) and the Innova (Daughter wanted it and I wanted a reason to buy one as i do a lot of highway trips for fun!).


So without much planning, I landed up at the Harsha Toyota, Hyderabad in Sep 09 and asked them to book an Innova VX - mainly because I wanted the additional safety of Airbags and ABS. Was lucky to get the new model as Toyota had launched it a few months ago. Got a few loan quotes, negotiated a bit and finally got one from HDFC an EMI of INR 2080/month/lakh for 5 years.

Got the vehicle and drove around a bit -16k in 1 year is not much but I live 2 kms from the office and still have the Baleno.

The changes I did

• 225/60 R15 Yokohama C.Drive tires instead of the original 205/65R15 Bridgestones @ INR 1700/Tire exchange price
• Pioneer AVH-P4200DVD Double Din Touch Screen Player with Bluetooth Adapter
• Steering Control Adapter to ensure that my factory steering controls work with Pioneer
• Infinity Reference components in front and back
• Reverse Camera
• Rear guard, spoilers and Window Visors

My experience is as follows :

Exterior

• +ves

• Looks a bit like a car
• Good panel fit and finish
• Aerodynamic design
• My daughter (8yo) loves the look

-ves

• Looks like a whale to some
• Paint job is very easily scratched
• Sheet metal is very thin - forget the Baleno, it feels thinner than the Santro and the Alto I have owned in the past. Cant lean on any door apart from the bonnet as the sheet will flex easily.
• My son (4yo) prefers the Baleno

Interior

+ves

• Light, bright and top quality plastics
• Climate Control and ventss that shut means less fights with wife to keep fiddling with the AC knob to find that elusive setting that is neither hot nor cold
• Comfortable seating - last row is tight on legroom but no problem if you are friends with the middle row occupants, they can slide their seat forward and lend you some of their vast legroom
• Multi Information Display is interesting and the quality of display screens are top notch all over - built to last
• AC vents for all rows - cooling is no problem
• Split 3rd row - 6 persons and their luggage is no problem as folding away part of the 3rd row liberates good luggage room. We actually had 5 adults and 2 kids on a 3500km 15 day trip (Hyderabad Bangalore Madurai Kanyakumari Quillon Thekkady Hyderabad sector) and we were able to manage easily w/o an overhead luggage carrier.

-ves

• Santro size luggage space with all 8 persons onboard
• Tight 3rd row in case the middle row wants to hog all the legroom
• No head restraints for middle passengers
• No hot air from rear vents - only front gives out hot air though it should be sufficient.
• 3rd row looks ugly if folded and covers most of the windows.
• Average music system - a bit tinny and lumpy / boomy for my taste with too many unknown peaks in sound..

Engine/Gearbox

+ves

• Easy, reliable and tractable engine with wide (1400-3400 rpm) torque band. The car has traction and even if you are doing 120kmph on an incline - the speed will not drop.
• 2KD FTV (the engine model) is designed for commercial use and hence given a long trouble free life
• not very noisy at city speeds
• Smooth and easily slooted gearshift

-ves

• Gears slot right but the throw is long
• Short Geared @ 110kmph the vehicle is doing nearly 3000 RPM in 5th and one can hear the diesel hum in the cabin.
• Fuel efficiency not very great - I get 11 kmpl in City and 10 kmpl on the highways with some fast driving.
• Only 102 bhp / 20.2 nm torque for a 2500 cc engine means the performance though not very sluggish is also not sprightly.

Ride and Handling

[b]+ves

• Handling is not exactly a car, but in the same league and very similar. The rear will step out though if you push to the limit.
• Excellant high speed poise - thanks to the well engineered limited travel suspension
• High speed ride quality is very good over normal / broken roads.
• No nose dive - the bane of many a s diesel SUVs
• Can take corners @ 100kmp+
• Can dismiss broken tarmac with great disdain - better than a car again.

-ves

• Not Bone jarring but firm low speed ride. Worse than most of cars.
• Limited travel suspension means small potholes are dismissed but the car can transmit larger ones inside the cabin
• Undertired in my view and needs wider tires - if only for the look

The Toyota service, though not up to my expectations in the begining, has been improving of late and now I am very happy with them. The car came with a slightly misaligned (Only I could find it - no one else could discover even after being told) centre console that Toyota replaced frre of charge. I also changed the ICE in the car and got a neat sum of 800 INR for my Toyota Factory fitted Fujitsu made system.

My steering controls still work on the new touch screen Double Din Pioneer and I am pretty happy with the Infonity 6030cs Reference Components that I installed in front and back.


To sum it up -
Am I happy with my car YES
Would I buy one gain YES
Do I believe it is value for money at nearly INR 14.35 lakhs in Hyderabad - NO but nothing comes close so you are left with no choice.

Kindly add your experiences on Innova so that I can validate my findings.

[Anand123]

Congrats on the car and that was a nice write up. Now its time for some pics and dont forget the pics of your touch screen system.

[sachinj12]

That was one detailed review man. Gives a clear idea to a prospective buyer. Wishing you many more happy miles with it!!

[Puffdamgcdragon]

Hi Buffetfan,

You helped me a lot when i was going in for my Baleno back in 2005. Appreciate it.

Even i recently sold my Baleno and got myself an Innova Vx in Red. I also upgraded to 225/60-15 Yokohama C Drives but i think the stock alloys are a little small in width as the tyres bulge out a bit.

maybe I'll invest in thicker (5.5J ?) Alloys that look better a few months down the line.

I'm particularly interested in getting more details about the adapter which will make my steering mounted controls work with aftermarket Audio unit. I've been very keen on upgrading my music system to something good from Alpine/ Blaupunkt and getting good JBL components with Amp. But I retained the stock factory system as i couldn't get the steering controls to work with aftermarket units.

Agree with all the details of your review 100%. I'd like to add that the Innova feels quite bouncy with just me and one passenger and I have to be careful o over big undulations- the suspension bobs up and down quite a lot (Not as much as a Scorpio) but much worse than the Baleno.

But load the veh. fully with 5+ persons and luggage, the handling and ride becomes surprisingly tight.. And the best part is, there's no real loss of power felt fully loaded.

My complaints- There's some creaking noise over rough road. I thought it was from the Dashboard but seems it's from the ceiling near the windshield and seems to be a common complaint with the Innova. Dealer tells me not to do anything about it as it is "company fitted"....

- The ABS cuts in too early. Over slightly rough, undulating surface and at moderate speeds, when i press the brake, I get a lot of shuddering and clanging noise ( sounds like guitar wires breaking). It's quite unnerving. The dealer tells me it's normal. I'm not so sure.
We also have a Ford Fusion+ and an old model Corolla in the family, both with ABS and they are perfectly noise free and vibrations from the pedal can only be felt when braking at high speeds on slippery conditions..

Red color is difficult to maintain and got a lot of scratches in 6 months I've owned it. Surprisingly, i even got scratches near the roof over the C pillars. Guess it's from small branches and trees hanging over roads.

paint quality and the metallic shine is really not good. Chevrolet and even Tata paint is miles ahead in thickness as well as metallic flakes..

A decent vehicle overall and I'm not disappointed. I'm not trembling with excitement either...

Puffy.

[.anshuman]

Hi Buffetfan, Thanks for sharing a very honest and spot on review of the Innova. Some pictures along with the report would have made it even better. I agree with most points you have made here. I am adding some points i have observed in the Innova.

• I love the linear power delivery in Innova, it matches the purpose of the car but the downside is it lacks the grunt in the midrange in comparison to Xylo/Scorpio.
  
• Ride quality again is very level compared to other UV's in the segment which have a bouncy ride, the downside is the low suspension travel is not as absorbent.
  
• Gearing is short and feels slightly uneasy at higher speeds on highways but then it aids the driveability. In comparison i find the Fortuner's gearing spot on the lower gear are short and higher gears are taller, this makes the Fortuner equally suited for Offroading and High speed travel

[Buffetfan]

Hi Buffetfan,

You helped me a lot when i was going in for my Baleno back in 2005. Appreciate it.

Thanks!

Even i recently sold my Baleno and got myself an Innova Vx in Red. I also upgraded to 225/60-15 Yokohama C Drives but i think the stock alloys are a little small in width as the tyres bulge out a bit.

maybe I'll invest in thicker (5.5J ?) Alloys that look better a few months down the line.

I still have the Baleno could not bring myself to sell a vehicle that is reliable, peppy and a better drivers vehicle compared to the Innova. Please be careful about the Alloys, (they are 6J BTW) and know that the OEM toyota Alloys cost INR 48K and are very well built. 6J is not the optimal (6.5J is) but acceptable range to mount 225/60 tires so even if they bulge a bit, you are ok. Innova is no Ferrari and the extra 1kmph gain in the cornering speed due to optimal alloy width will not win us any trophies

C. Drives dont have the strongest sidewalls so please be careful with them on rough roads.

I'm particularly interested in getting more details about the adapter which will make my steering mounted controls work with aftermarket Audio unit. I've been very keen on upgrading my music system to something good from Alpine/ Blaupunkt and getting good JBL components with Amp. But I retained the stock factory system as i couldn't get the steering controls to work with aftermarket units.

I got mine from the US but you can get similar stuff from the local Toyota dealer. Harsha Toyota had similar stuff. Should cost INR 2-3.5k depending on the model. I paid USD 45 for what I have. See some examples here http://www.pac-audio.com/Products.aspx?CategoryId=29

Agree with all the details of your review 100%. I'd like to add that the Innova feels quite bouncy with just me and one passenger and I have to be careful o over big undulations- the suspension bobs up and down quite a lot (Not as much as a Scorpio) but much worse than the Baleno.

Please try with different air pressure. I have found that anything above 31psi makes the 225/60 C.Drives bouncy. If alone, I generally keep 30psi and the ride is very absorbent.

My complaints- There's some creaking noise over rough road. I thought it was from the Dashboard but seems it

's from the ceiling near the windshield and seems to be a common complaint with the Innova. Dealer tells me not to do anything about it as it is "company fitted"....

Have you tried calling the Toyota helpline. They take customer complaints very seriously and will make the dealer listen to you. Again, since this is a body on chasis design, there might be a creak here or there but in general, the Innova is a pretty rattle free vehicle.

Numbers at the Bottom of this page Toyota - Contactus

- The ABS cuts in too early. Over slightly rough, undulating surface and at moderate speeds, when i press the brake, I get a lot of shuddering and clanging noise ( sounds like guitar wires breaking). It's quite unnerving. The dealer tells me it's normal. I'm not so sure.

It is though the ABS Noise will reduce over time.

Red color is difficult to maintain and got a lot of scratches in 6 months I've owned it. Surprisingly, i even got scratches near the roof over the C pillars. Guess it's from small branches and trees hanging over roads.

paint quality and the metallic shine is really not good. Chevrolet and even Tata paint is miles ahead in thickness as well as metallic flakes..

Agree and this is my biggest gripe with Toyota.

A decent vehicle overall and I'm not disappointed. I'm not trembling with excitement either...

Puffy.

In line with your temperament! You were same with Baleno too . My kids love the Innova and I believe that this is the best vehicle in India at this price, especially if you need 7 seats.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Hi Buffetfan, Thanks for sharing a very honest and spot on review of the Innova. Some pictures along with the report would have made it even better. I agree with most points you have made here. I am adding some points i have observed in the Innova.

• I love the linear power delivery in Innova, it matches the purpose of the car but the downside is it lacks the grunt in the midrange in comparison to Xylo/Innova.
• Ride quality again is very level compared to other UV's in the segment which have a bouncy ride, the downside is the low suspension travel is not as absorbent.
• Gearing is low and feels slightly uneasy at higher speeds on highways but then it aids the driveability. In comparison i find the Fortuner's gearing spot on the lower gear are short and higher gears are taller, this makes the Fortuner equally suited for Offroading and High speed travel

Agree with all your points above. I was pretty confused between the Fortuner and the Innova. The two reasons that made me buy the Innova was the wee bit more of usable third row and better ride quality. Every year, I do a few long distance non stop trips (700-1000km+) for fun and the slight bobbiness/unsettled ride in Fortuner was not to my comfort. Of course the huge difference in price helped quickly cement the decision.

There is no comparison between 1KDFTV (Fortuner Engine) and 2KDFTV (Innova Engine). While 2KD FTV was derived from 1KDFTV around the year 2002, it was primarily designed for commercial use, maybe that explains the different power characteristics. Also, the fortuner gearing is spot on! but guess that is also because the usable power is so much more.

Since you own one, maybe you can tell me your exp of long rides.



I will try and post a few pics this fortnight

[niv26]

>>Do I believe it is value for money at nearly INR 14.35 lakhs in Hyderabad - NO but nothing comes close so you are left with no choice.

Now it is 15.8L on road in Hyd. Do you still think VFM.
I am planning to buy one.

[nutmello]

hi. my innona ( 2.5v) has done more than 220000 kms in past 5 years without a issue. it gives you so much of confidence, we blindly take it to madurai or vijaywada. absolut peace of mind. any day, innova is a good investment. just that we must take care by regular services and lot of TLC.

[drmohitg]

Innova is a gem of a product. The earlier qualis was a little crude in some areas ( if I can call it that). The Innova very well bridges that gap and comes out as a premium vehicle which appeals to private buyers as well as fleet owners, a feat which is rarely seen with other cars IMO. The space, the comfort, the ease of driving is all very well known.

The only grudge I have with the car is that massive under tuning of such a big vehicle. Most of the people blindly go ahead after looking at that 2500 cc engine. But on highways the car does make a ruckus if driven aggressively. Cabin noise becomes unbearable and I have always wondered how those Taxi drivers drive there Innovas at 130-140 kmph. Doesn't the customer complaint about the engine noise filtering in?

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by niv26

>>Do I believe it is value for money at nearly INR 14.35 lakhs in Hyderabad - NO but nothing comes close so you are left with no choice.

Now it is 15.8L on road in Hyd. Do you still think VFM.
I am planning to buy one.

The problem is that there is no other option in this price range if you want good fit and finish, reliabiilty, seat 8 in comfort and still want to own an easy to drive vehicle!

Please test drive one and see how you find it. I love this vehicle.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Most of the people blindly go ahead after looking at that 2500 cc engine. But on highways the car does make a ruckus if driven aggressively. Cabin noise becomes unbearable and I have always wondered how those Taxi drivers drive there Innovas at 130-140 kmph. Doesn't the customer complaint about the engine noise filtering in?

That engine does duty for half a million kms before before asking for anything in turn so the blind faith is not misplaced. I have realised that if you are brutal with acclerator then the car makes more hum but if you are gentle with the acclerator, the car is pretty silent.
To explain, if you redline every gear and land up at 130 kmph, the car seems to make more noise at this speed compared to the situation where you land at the same speed by shifting up before reaching say 2000 rpm and using acclerator like you have an egg placed between it and the floor mat....exactly the way taxi drivers drive. And in that case the car does not make much of a racket...go figure.


Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

That engine does duty for half a million kms before before asking for anything in turn so the blind faith is not misplaced. I have realised that if you are brutal with acclerator then the car makes more hum but if you are gentle with the acclerator, the car is pretty silent.
To explain, if you redline every gear and land up at 130 kmph, the car seems to make more noise at this speed compared to the situation where you land at the same speed by shifting up before reaching say 2000 rpm and using acclerator like you have an egg placed between it and the floor mat....exactly the way taxi drivers drive. And in that case the car does not make much of a racket...go figure.

This has been discussed elsewhere that the reason behind that engine probably performing for a million kms is the gross under tuning. But regardless of the number of kms it can run, it still makes a lot of sound and is surely not fun to drive. To be reasonable and practical how many people really keep a car for 2L kms and more? Not many for sure.
I am a very sedate driver. And having driven my Innova for 80k kms now I will still vouch for the bad NVH level control in the car. No matter how you reach 2000 rpm but once you cross it the engine sound becomes irritating. At 5th gear the engine is doing around 2000-2200 rpm at a speed of around 100. Anything more then this and the sound increases to not so comfortable levels.

[Buffetfan]

Time to update this thread a bit : Now the car is into its fourth year and has accompanied me to a lot of places. Current Odometer Reading is around 53k mark. The major expenses that I have encountered apart from Regular servicing and oil changes are below :

A. Tires changed at 48.5k - Again to Yokohama C.Drives 225/60R15. I am a big fan of these tires and it is the first time in my life that I have continued with the same tire in my vehicle. In fact this is the third set of C.Drives i have purchased. This tally includes one set for the other sweetheart I have - The Baleno. Cost - nearly INR 30k for everything

B. Brake pads changed for around INR 4k I suppose? cant remember

C. Headlamps - One bulb lost its high beam so I replaced both with Philips Extreme Vision (that I had been eying for sometime) - cost INR 1300 or so. I don't know what to do with Toyota spare the car came with .

D : Rear gate lift support / door strut : The rear door was lifting up a bit slow of late and Toyota replaced one of the hydraulic pistons free of cost - under warranty. Took about an hour with Zero cost.

E : Wipers replaced after three years for INR 650 or so.

No rattles in the car till now. This is despite the car witnessing a lot of rural roads and broken patches till now. No door alignment required ..in fact I dont remember getting anything done in the car.

Now this is a zero drama experience. No unscheduled expenses apart from minor / regular replacements like tires, brake pads, bulbs etc. This car does not make me feel that it exists. It feels the same as it came three years ago and continues to spoil me with its low maintenance nature? I so much miss my moody UNO that would decide to throw tantrums at the drop of a hat...

All I can say after three years is that this is the best ownership experience of my life till now! Everyone in my family loves this vehicle and cannot seem to get enough of it.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

This car does not make me feel that it exists. It feels the same as it came three years ago and continues to spoil me with its low maintenance nature? I so much miss my moody UNO that would decide to throw tantrums at the drop of a hat...

All I can say after three years is that this is the best ownership experience of my life till now! Everyone in my family loves this vehicle and cannot seem to get enough of it.

Thanks for the update. Yes the Innova surely sometimes makes you feel bored with the same monotonous routine of "fill it and shut it" kind.

Mine is the same story with zero breakdown of any part whatsoever. Mine is nearing 98k kms now and planning to get a couple of dents removed and some polishing as its 1L km present.

How are the Yokos in terms of comfort? I would be looking to get the shoes changed in my car too in another 5-6k kms. Was thinking of going for the much talked about Michelin XM2.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Thanks for the update. Yes the Innova surely sometimes makes you feel bored with the same monotonous routine of "fill it and shut it" kind.

Mine is the same story with zero breakdown of any part whatsoever. Mine is nearing 98k kms now and planning to get a couple of dents removed and some polishing as its 1L km present.

How are the Yokos in terms of comfort? I would be looking to get the shoes changed in my car too in another 5-6k kms. Was thinking of going for the much talked about Michelin XM2.

Thanks. The Yoko's are pretty confortable though you many want to keep the tire pressure couple of psi lower in case you do an upsize. See my observations on

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...ml#post2964359