[mgh]

Part I- The buying

I got my earlier Indica DLX (pre-v2) in May 2000 at Pondicherry. By December 2009 it had covered over 1.7 lakh kilometres. The pre-v2 Indicas had two major problems, the rear suspension and noise from alternator (idler pulley in case of lower variants) pulley. They were sorted out during the warranty period plus a problem with the tacho (tacho-alternator combo)for which the alternator was replaced under warranty. The dealers were VST Motors at Cuddalore. Later it was maintained by Manakular Motors at Podicherry. Moved to Bangalore in 2005 with approx 1.3 lakh kilometres on it. Only major job at Bangalore was Engine overhaul at 1.45 lakh kms.

We were happy with the car because
1. Could take five adults comfortably (necessary requirement). For a short ride, we have managed four adults at back and two in front seat apart from the driver.
2. Riding comfort. Even long drives (Chennai-Ooty, Bangalore-Ooty), were not tiring.
3. Powerful AC which cooled even at the height of summer in Chennai and Pondicherry.
4. Enough luggage space for short trips out of town.With rear seat folded, lot of luggage could be loaded.
5. Superb road grip. On the Pondicherry- Chennai east Coast Road, we could maintain close to 100 km/hr, even on the long curves. We never exceeded 105 km/hr,and slowed down to 40 km/hr at the villages. Only cars which overtook us during that period were Mercedes; nothing else ever overtook us.

In Decmber 2009, when we decided to change the car, it was going to be Indica/ Indigo. Had heard Tatas had started selling certified pre-owned cars. I was clear in my mind, if I could get at most a three year old car for around 3 lakhs, I would take it, else go in for new car. Went to Prerana Motors, Lalbagh Road, middle of December. I wanted everything that was there in my DLX, that is

1. HVAC
2. Power Steering
3. Power Windows
4. Rear Wiper
plus certified.

Met Mr. Vijayakumar, in-charge, pre-owned cars. He told me that certified cars have to be less than five years old, less than 1 lakh km, and not in major accident. He told me about 3 cars meeting my requirements
1. Indigo LX 2006 54000kms- initial quote 3.5 lakhs
2. Silver Indica DLX Turbo 2007 17000kms- initial quote 3.3 lakhs
3. Red Indica DLX Turbo 74000 kms- initial quote 2.8 lakhs

All the three were in yards nearby. The Indigo and the 2006 Indica were overhauled, and ready to go. The Indica 2007 had just come in.
After some discussions with friends, we decided on the 2007 Indica, and paid the booking amount four days later, final price all inclusive, including registration, was 3.1 lakhs. It had some gouges on the side and also needed some small touch-ups. I had also checked with Concorde Motors, they had nothing available at that time. I also found out that there is a heavy demand for the Indicas and Indigos from the Taxi crowd, and I was lucky to get one!

The pre-delivery work is done at their Peenya workshop, body work at Kudulu. The car was delivered on January 1st morning as promised. Could not even make out that there were gouges earlier.

I was told to drive it for a couple of days and inform in case of any problems. Mr. Manjunath, the man who was doing all the legwork, told me that Tatas had started this business just six months earlier and were keen to establish it.

[mgh]

Part II - The ownership saga begins

January 1 was a Saturday. Sunday morning, the car would not start, though it was cranking perfectly. Got it push started, called them Monday morning. Took it there, also told them that they had given me two R-14 and three R-13 tyres, and they should give me whatever tyres were specified for the car. They exchanged the tyres there itself and in fact I got almost brand new tyres. Sent the car off to Peenya with driver, along with a few points for clarification. Got it back in the evening, was told that they had replaced the glow plugs in pre-delivery, and one of the wires was loose. Clarified all my other queries as well. No charge.

They gave me a pre-owned car booklet with three free service coupons and a insurance policy for extended warranty valid for one year/20000 kms whichever is earlier. The insurance papers clearly mentioned what is covered ( I had also been shown that when I had been there the first time).

I found that they had ended up giving me three 175x65 R14s and two 165x65 R-14s. The 175x65 tyres were almost brand new, the 165x65 tyres were also in good condition but not almost brand new. I did not go back to them for obvious reasons! I changed the 165x65 tyres to 175x65 new Bridgestone tyres to match the others. I also got fabric seat covers. Total came to about 10,000 for the two tyres and seat covers.

First service was due first half of February (or 1000 to 1500 kms). Had fixed an appointment for Monday at Old Madras Road. Saturday morning, again there was a starting problem! On Monday, I told them about it. Since the starting problem was only in the morning, they kept it overnight and gave it to me next morning after starting it the next morning in front of me. Services charged for: oil change, oil and fuel filter, top up oils. Service adviser advised me for de-carbonising, to which I agreed to as I had found it helpful in my earlier Indica.

[mgh]

Part III- The ownership saga continues

The starting problem continued intermittently. Each time I took it, they did something, no charge. Then I started noticing a drop in FE. End of March they kept it for a full day and half. FE drop continued. End of April again there was starting problem. They found diesel filter clogged. Charged for diesel filter and labour only. There were no starting problems after that and FE was back to normal.

Beginning of June the check engine light started coming on after driving for some time, and there was adrop in FE. They said AC potentiometer was faulty upon checking with laptop, and replaced it (not included in extended warranty).

Second free service in July, zero charge.

Got oil change done this month. There is a slight noise from rear right suspension, will get it done at third service.

Must mention that the service at Old Madras Road, has been extremely courteous and people including the manager, Mr. Karthik, seemed to be bending over backwards as far as helping me. Maybe as Manjunath at Lalbagh Road said, they are keen to make experience of certified pre-owned cars good for the customers.

In case you are wondering, why I did not escalate the FE problem much. The answer is that I was trying to find the 'best' fuel bunk and fuel. Will post that saga a little later.

Ownership experience overall so far:

What I like after 10000 kms (the car is nearing 28000 kms)
1. It has everything that my earlier DLX had
2. The ride is very much smoother than the earlier car
3. The car is much quieter inside, even outside, the engine makes much less noise.
4. The turbo kick-others call it lag! You are thrown back against your seat!

What I don't like
1. The engine seems to be much more difficult to troubleshoot in case of problems, because of reliance on ECU. Price of progress!

[coloneljasi]

Nice review there, mgh! I'm pleasantly surprised to see that you're stuck with Indica for the second time. Satisfied TATA customers are very, very rare nowadays.

Good to see that there is a significant improvement in the service meted out to TATA's customers. Do post some pictures of your car. How do you find the overall performance of your car? Viz-a-viz your old NA Indica? Do you find any quality improvement in your newer car, as far as the interior trim is concerned?

[MileCruncher]

Congrats on the car, even though its 11 months late.

I'm quite surprised that a Indica having run only 17k in 3 years. I hope you checked from all sources to certify that the mileage was genuine.

And what is this AC Potentiometer? Hearing it for the first time. Are you sure we are not talking about the relay?

[rajeev k]

How come the tyre mismatch occur twice. Since the car has clocked only 17K kms the OE tyres should have been in place.

Any how as two tyres were procured and the mismatch removed it is fine.

[mgh]

Originally Posted by coloneljasi

Nice review there, mgh! I'm pleasantly surprised to see that you're stuck with Indica for the second time. Satisfied TATA customers are very, very rare nowadays.

Good to see that there is a significant improvement in the service meted out to TATA's customers. Do post some pictures of your car. How do you find the overall performance of your car? Viz-a-viz your old NA Indica? Do you find any quality improvement in your newer car, as far as the interior trim is concerned?

Thanks
Satisfied Tata customers are rare here, not outside
Another friend of mine had bought an Indica DLE six months before me, he sold it at about the same time as me and has bought a Manza Aura.
I have never faced problem with service from Tatas. Maybe because the first five years were in Pondicherry,with authorized service centres, which were not overloaded with work. Almost all niggles were taken care of much before the warranty period was over. After coming to Bangalore, the Manipal Motors workshop was a stone's throw from my place. Reading up on Team BHP, my feeling was that it was a well regarded workshop. The nearest now is the Prerana workshop on Old Madras Road near Big Bazaar.
My earlier car was serviced there for close to a year before I sold it and bought this.
The performance of this car is way better than the old one, as the turbo has increased engine power by almost 25% and the torque even more. The interior trim looks better than in the old car. A definite change for the better are the power window switches, and the mechanism for tilting the back in the front seats. Earlier, there was a notched wheel for tilting the back, now it is a unlocking switch, adjust and lock again, like push back seats in planes and buses.

Will post pictures a little later. It looks like any other silver Indica DLX Turbo!

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Congrats on the car, even though its 11 months late.

I'm quite surprised that a Indica having run only 17k in 3 years. I hope you checked from all sources to certify that the mileage was genuine.

And what is this AC Potentiometer? Hearing it for the first time. Are you sure we are not talking about the relay?

Thanks
The mileage was genuine. Didn't see the full service report, but did see bills for scheduled services with odometer readings and dates.
The A/C potentiometer is actually a position sensor related to air conditioning. Guess, based on its reading fuel injection is modified. I will put up a picture to show it. It is right at top of the engine and seems to be connected to idle adjustment.

Originally Posted by rajeev k

How come the tyre mismatch occur twice. Since the car has clocked only 17K kms the OE tyres should have been in place.

Any how as two tyres were procured and the mismatch removed it is fine.

My guess is simple. I , as a customer, tell the guys, look I am willing to buy, but tyres are too worn! What is their most likely reaction? There were more than fifty used cars in the yards I saw.
What I got initially were all 165x65. When I told them about the mismatch, they gave me R14s to replace the R13s, but gave me 175x65 instead of 165x65. 175x65 R14s are OEM for Indigos and higher variants of Vista!

[vivekgk]

Congrats mgh! It looks like you got a bargain. Only 17K done is amazing but not rare. I was looking at buying a 3 year old Indigo with only 28K done. Seller backed out at last minute. Often first time buyers will buy a diesel simply because of the lower fuel costs, and then drive it sparingly because they're scared to drive.

The Indica DLX Turbo comes with 175/65R14 as OE. The only model that came with 165/65R14 as OE was the Indigo LE. V2 Indicas came with either 165/65R13 for the non turbo models, and 175/65R14 for the DLG Turbo and DLX Turbo models. You're right that the turbo Indicas are in high demand from taxi users because of the good FE and cheap maintenance.

[greenhorn]

good lord, 3.x for a 2007 indica? I could sell mine right now

whats your FE? 13~14 is acceptable for the TCIC.
DLG/DLX turbos and all DICOR models came with 165/65R14 IIRC.

as always, System D works wonders ( if you don't use it already)
Use older Engine oils ( castrol GTD is perfect. the engine really doesnt like the newfangled API CH/CI4 brews - GTX Diesel, Delvax MX etc)

[mgh]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

good lord, 3.x for a 2007 indica? I could sell mine right now

whats your FE? 13~14 is acceptable for the TCIC.
DLG/DLX turbos and all DICOR models came with 165/65R14 IIRC.

as always, System D works wonders ( if you don't use it already)
Use older Engine oils ( castrol GTD is perfect. the engine really doesnt like the newfangled API CH/CI4 brews - GTX Diesel, Delvax MX etc)

It is a June15 2007 registered car, bought middle of December 2009. I had checked price at which it could be sold, on Zigwheels at that time. They had given 2.9 lakhs. So thought 3.1 for certified car was OK.

Difficult to answer FE question, shall answer that next time, as it is a bit complex. Have started using System D.

Anyway a couple of pics of the car (lot of light and shade, please excuse} and couple of pics showing the AC potentiometer.

[mgh]

Had been using IOC extra mile in my 2000 model indica, so continued that. Had been filling at IOC bunk next to Diamond District on old Airport. I continued that, with one exception. Used to fill 500Rs worth when tank came to aprrox. half level, instead of that I started filling up the tank fully, including topping up.

Also, the car does not have any routine, as it is used mostly for shopping, and visiting friends and relatives. On an average, i need to fill up weekly. So the averages I am quoting, are moving averages over four fillings. Week to week, the variation in the FE is more because of variation in traffic conditions encountered. I would say it is used with about 50 % AC on an average.

I got the vehicle on January 1, and took it for first free service on February 8. It gave 12.6 kms/ltr over that period, lowest FE at a filling was 10.8 and max was 13.9, which included a trip to the new airport(90 km round trip at night with very little traffic). Almost immediately afterwards, the FE started dropping. They said that it could be problem with the diesel, tried different bunks, finally as per their recommendation switched to Shell regular from bunk next To Prerana Motors workshop. FE drop continued. As I mentioned earlier, i was also having starting problems in the morning off and on. Every time I took it there, mentioned the dropping FE. Finally once they kept it for couple of days. (Certified car, no charges!) The FE drop continued.

We were planning a trip to Mysore, and I felt that one of the front wheels was feeling warm near the hub. Took it there, they said it was normal. As I mentioned FE again, they said they will take a test drive. Filled up tank (with topping), their driver drove. We went past KRPuram and beyond and Highway to Kolar and came back. He never went past 85 km/hr in fifth gear, did not exceed 1800 rpm, otherwise drove at the speed of the traffic. we also got four red lights, two going, two coming, he did not switch the engine off. Came back to Shell bunk, filled again with topping. Distance covered 29.8 kms, fuel used 1.21 ltrs, FE 24.6!

We went to Mysore, came back. Total trip, 454.5 kms, approx 50% city, rest highway, fuel used 28.72 lltrs, FE15.8, Immediately after returning, next day there was a starting problem, They found fuel filter clogged. Cost filter+ labour.

The FE crossed 12 and then showed drop. Took it to workshop, had fuel tank cleaned and filter changed. As per SA, nothing was found, he adjusted FIP advance as he said it was slightly off. Then started getting Check engine light, traced to AC potentiometer, shown in the pictures earlier.

Decided to change to regular diesel as all the SAs were telling me to, and switched to autostop method. Switched to BP pump opposite Manipal Hospital, based on experience of members here. FE crossed 12 kms/ltr. Started adding System D after 2nd free service. The FE is now stable around 12.5. Filling to filing variation is from 11 to 13 kms/ltr. In between when I was using regular diesel without additives, engine was noisier. It has come back to what it was with extra mile diesel, may be a little smoother.

Must mention following
1. As I have 175x65 R14 tyres as opposed to 165x65 R14 OEM, as per tyre size calculator mentioned in another thread, the distance covered is approx 2.3 % more than indicated.
2. As both the sidewall height and the width of the tyre is more, there would be an impact on FE, to what extent, I am not aware. Don't mind that because of improvement in the ride and road grip.
3. Car is mostly driven by driver, who has been with me for almost 3 years now. He enjoys the turbo kick of this car, I don't blame him, I like it myself! But, he does not exceed about 2500 rpm while accelerating, and keeps below 2000 rpm otherwise. It is definitely not driven sedately, but neither is it driven with accelerator floored.

When I got oil change done this month, told SA to check FIP and advance. He said there was a minor adjustment needed. Have filled up after that.
Will get back on FE after about a month.

[mgh]

The main purpose for my starting this thread was to list pre-owned certified car experience.
It will complete 1 year with me on Jan 1. It is manufactured in May 2007, purchased by previous owner in June. So it is three and a half years old now. It will have 29000 on odometer at the end of this year.

Points to be noted
1. The one year warranty is an extended warranty through an insurance company. Though major parts are covered, not all are. The ac potentiometer, which i had to replace being one. In case of power windows, only the motor is covered, nothing else.
2. What you save with the free services is 650 per service, totalling 1950.
3. Mainly, it gives peace of mind, for one year.

So, should you go in for a certified car, if you are looking out for a pre-owned car?

My thoughts, based on my experience
1. If the car you are thinking of is more than 4 years old ( where both the original warranty and extended warranty would have expired), it is worthwhile, because you are getting an extended warranty where the original owner would not be entitled to one.
2. It is vetted by the dealer like a new car (PDI)
3. Do inspect thoroughly, check it out like any other pre-owned car.
4. Tell the marketing man, what you want to be taken care of. They will oblige in most cases, or else tell you clearly that it is too costly for them to take up. In which case, ask them to do it for you at a reasonable discount.
5. It is possible to get tyres in better condition than what are on the car.

Finally, regarding the FE, am attaching a chart.All FEs are calculated full tank to full tank. Before I started adding system D, was topping up after autostop, after that I do not.
As I mentioned, my usage is almost all in the city, with no fixed routes day to day. I have also shown FE calculated over four fillings ( total kms divided by total litres of fuel). The FEs are corrected for odometer error due to bigger tyres.
The relevant events are marked on the chart. I expect I am getting about 0.5 kms/ltr less than I should because of larger tyres. It is mostly driven by the driver, if i drive it i might get about 1 km more.
Lastly, Bangalore is a bad city for FE because
1. 3000 feet above sea level- supposed to lose 10% power in NA engines, should apply to turbo engines as well in the city as the turbos will not kick in.
2. The roads continuously go up and down, extra fuel used during 'up' cannot be compensated by 'down'
3. Signals are not synchronised in any direction, and the traffic jams, which in my experience are worse than in other cities.

[mgh]

mods, haven't seen this issue anywhere. pl. move if necessary.
i bought a certified pre-owned Indica turbo DLX about a year ago
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...bo-silver.html
used to get AC solenoid noise (the solenoid which increases idling speed when AC is on) every time when stopping at a traffic signal with AC on, switching off the compressor would stop the noise. had mentioned it at my first free service and TASS said that they tightened the solenoid. After that, it has been erratic, in the sense that it does not always come when stopped at a traffic signal with AC on, and comes rarely, as a result not been able to reproduce it for TASS after that. It is a niggle, as when idling, the recommendation in any case, is to switch off the compressor.
I have experienced solenoid noise in control systems in the industry. It happens when the value of the signal activating the solenoid is always very near the control point, and not due to a defect in the solenoid. The solution is always to ensure that the signal controlling the solenoid is not near the control point, if the process allows it.
Inputs from bhpians will be appreciated.

[SirAlec]

Bit confused on your post. what exactly is that you want from you AC system.?

[mgh]

nothing from the AC system, there is no problem.
The problem is solenoid noise (chatter) in the system, which raises idling speed slightly when the AC compressor is on. If the AC is off, there is no noise. It comes when idling with AC on at a signal, not all the time, but once in a while.
Earlier, before the first service, it was there almost all the time. If the bonnet is open, and you put the AC on and off, you can see a lever move first in one direction, and then the other. When the noise was there, you could see the lever move back and forth rapidly.
In most cars including the Indica, the solenoid is operated by vacuum created by AC compressor. Obviously, there has to be a setting for the vacuum at which the solenoid engages and disengages. If the value at which the compressor operates, is too close to the setting on the solenoid, the solenoid gets 'confused,' and keeps going on and off. That causes the solenoid noise or chatter.
Strictly speaking, you should switch off the AC when stopped at a signal, so it is more in the nature of a niggle.
I am hesitant to pursue the matter more vigorously, as I don't want something else getting affected while the workshop tries to fix it. Even in industry, i have found that qualified and experienced instrumentation engineers find solenoid chatter difficult to solve, as the setting is specified by process guys ( i was one), who are reluctant to change any of the settings + the instrumentation guys are looking for equipment fault as the settiing is none of their business! I don't want the workshop going on changing parts and charging me a fortune, when that is not the issue at all.