[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by misquitas

In many ways, the Ritz and the I10 did seem to be within the same segment. They both are priced similar (Ritz LXI and the I10 Magna are about Rs 4.4 lakh) and both have a 1.2 engine. But in other ways, the Ritz is indeed a larger car in physical dimensions. Both cars may appeal to a different audience.

Melvyn

Nice & honest review Melvyn

In my opinion, the segmentation should be considered based on physical attributes rather than pricing of a car.
So,
a) Santro, Alto, Wagon R, Estilo - (all ~1500mm wide while having comparable length. All have engine 1100cc or below)

b) i10, Beat (~ 1600mm wide, similar length, 1200cc engine)

c) A-star,
Ritz, Swift, Indica Vista, U-VA
Ford Figo
(all ~1700mm wide, similar lengths, 1200cc engine. A-star positioned low due to smaller engine, Ford figo the highest due to much more luggage)

d) i20, Polo, Fabia, Punto, (all ~1700mm wide and around 4000mm long, premium feature set, similar luggage space, top of line positioning in hatchback segment)

e) Jazz (1700mm wide and around 4000mm long, premium feature set, class leading luggage space, top positioning in hatchback segment)

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Nice & honest review Melvyn

In my opinion, the segmentation should be considered based on physical attributes rather than pricing of a car.
So,
a) Santro, Alto, Wagon R, Estilo - (all ~1500mm wide while having comparable length. All have engine 1100cc or below)

b) i10, Beat (~ 1600mm wide, similar length, 1200cc engine)

c) A-star,
Ritz, Swift, Indica Vista, U-VA
Ford Figo
(all ~1700mm wide, similar lengths, 1200cc engine. A-star positioned low due to smaller engine, Ford figo the highest due to much more luggage)

d) i20, Polo, Fabia, Punto, (all ~1700mm wide and around 4000mm long, premium feature set, similar luggage space, top of line positioning in hatchback segment)

e) Jazz (1700mm wide and around 4000mm long, premium feature set, class leading luggage space, top positioning in hatchback segment)

Thanks, ajay0612, for your comments. The reason why I preferred to categorize cars on the basis of price was merely due to financial reasons. See, when you are working with Rs X budget, it is so much easier to place (and compare) cars that are priced within a similar range. A budgetary allocation is generally the first starting point for many lay customers (like myself) who undertake the task of evaluating and buying a car.

To give you an example, an I20 1.2 Era is priced within the same range as an I10 1.2 Sportz. By your criterion, they would have been located in different segments but I placed them in the same section. While one (I20) was a larger car, the other (I10) had more frills and fitments.

I find it easier to go by the pricing of cars is because of the wide price range of various variants of a car. For example, here in Goa the I10 D-Lite 1.1 (Solid) begins at Rs 348,806 (ex-showroom), while the top-end I10 Asta AT WS GLS (Metallic) is priced at Rs 594,464 (ex-showroom).

But then, there are various views on this issue and I am given to understand that segmentation of cars is still a debatable topic in India.

[JustCause]

Congrats on your upgrade to the i10, the car which sells like hot cakes. The dealership experience was very cold as compared to Maruti. I think you might as well agree with me here that Maruti spoils you, and sets your expectations high when going to buy from any other car dealership.

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by JustCause

Congrats on your upgrade to the i10, the car which sells like hot cakes. The dealership experience was very cold as compared to Maruti. I think you might as well agree with me here that Maruti spoils you, and sets your expectations high when going to buy from any other car dealership.

Thanks, JustCause, for your comments. My experience too has been that Maruti (or at least the dealer at Panjim, lest I'm accused of a generalization) treats its customers really well. Going by the number of cars they sell and the lengthy waiting periods, they could easily have adopted a care-a-damn attitude.

Melvyn

[Live To Jive]

A friend of mine also booked an i10. He had the same experience during the test drive and booking. No tea / coffee / soft drink was offered. However when Remo Fernandes entered to buy a i20, tea was served.

[xingmaster]

Originally Posted by Live To Jive

A friend of mine also booked an i10. He had the same experience during the test drive and booking. No tea / coffee / soft drink was offered. However when Remo Fernandes entered to buy a i20, tea was served.

That's why we need to be rockstars. On a more serious note, I am myself contemplating to buy i10 but confused between the irde2 magna and kappa2 magna/sportz. My usage will be almost completely in city (90%) with a few higway runs thrown in. Also my monthly run is very low, less than 1000 km. Does it make sense for me to get the kappa2?

[praz]

Originally Posted by xingmaster

That's why we need to be rockstars. On a more serious note, I am myself contemplating to buy i10 but confused between the irde2 magna and kappa2 magna/sportz. My usage will be almost completely in city (90%) with a few higway runs thrown in. Also my monthly run is very low, less than 1000 km. Does it make sense for me to get the kappa2?

Xingmaster, is the irde2 an improvement over irde, like the kappa2? I thought Hyundai made only the cosmetic changes for the irde models. If you go by usage, I think irde would be good for you. It is a nice tourquey engine, well suited for city conditions. On the highway, or even on open roads, you will feel the need for more power. That's where the kappa scores over irde. Low monthly run does not make a difference for either of the engines.

[Live To Jive]

Originally Posted by xingmaster

That's why we need to be rockstars. On a more serious note, I am myself contemplating to buy i10 but confused between the irde2 magna and kappa2 magna/sportz. My usage will be almost completely in city (90%) with a few higway runs thrown in. Also my monthly run is very low, less than 1000 km. Does it make sense for me to get the kappa2?

Originally Posted by praz

Xingmaster, is the irde2 an improvement over irde, like the kappa2? I thought Hyundai made only the cosmetic changes for the irde models. If you go by usage, I think irde would be good for you. It is a nice tourquey engine, well suited for city conditions. On the highway, or even on open roads, you will feel the need for more power. That's where the kappa scores over irde. Low monthly run does not make a difference for either of the engines.

The IRDE2 is supposed to be an improvement over the IRDE. However there are no reviews of it. Between the IRDE & Kappa (old), the IRDE was the winner. The Kappa did not deliver on the better milege promise. All the hype about being a superior engine etc was just hype. Many BHPians have written reviews and most got quite low milege (and some were even happy with the low milege). However the Kappa2 has addressed this problem and now we have a gem of an engine. The VTVT (like vtec) ensures that when you're driving with a light foot (like Melvyn) you will get good milege. However when you floor the throttle the VTVT kicks in giving you the power and compromising on milege.
There's a big difference in the re-sale of the IRDE and Kappa. Hence I would recomend the Kappa2. Based on Melvyn's thread and the above points, a friend of mine opted for the i10 Kappa2.

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by Live To Jive

A friend of mine also booked an i10. He had the same experience during the test drive and booking. No tea / coffee / soft drink was offered. However when Remo Fernandes entered to buy a i20, tea was served.

Whoa! May be, I should have deviated from my principles and should have shown them my 'Press Card'. I may have got better customer service. But seriously speaking, why should Goa Hyundai (or any dealer for that matter) adopt discriminatory practices while treating its customers, specially when all customers pay the same for the car?

Originally Posted by xingmaster

On a more serious note, I am myself contemplating to buy i10 but confused between the irde2 magna and kappa2 magna/sportz. My usage will be almost completely in city (90%) with a few higway runs thrown in. Also my monthly run is very low, less than 1000 km. Does it make sense for me to get the kappa2?

As far as I know, the difference between irde2 (era) and Kappa2 (magna) is about Rs 30K. The difference is only about Rs 15,000 between irde2 (magna) and kappa2 (magna). I took had initially considered the irde2 (era) but later opted for the 1.2 magna.

My reasoning (may sound crude to many as I'm not technically/mechanically sound) was this: The irde2 delivers 69 bhp while the kappa2 jumps to 80 bhp. Now, we normally travel with 5 persons, considerable luggage and with the occasional AC. Given the topography of Goa's roads, slopes and climbs are a regular feature. After paying Rs 4 lakh, I did not want to have a 69 bhp car struggle with the above mentioned load (in addition to the 950-odd kilos of the car), as I had earlier experienced with the Wagon R, during our test drive. I thought that the kappa2 (with the additional 11 bhp) would be in a better position to cater to the load in the car. In my opinion, the additional Rs 30,000 was worth the difference between the irde2 (magna) and kappa2 (magna).

Many at the showroom itself indicated that there are fewer takers for the irde2 (era or magna). A cursory glance at the stockyard also indicated towards this trend. Most of the I10s in the stockyard were 1.2 (Magna, sportz and asta in that order) and I could only see a very few Era variants.

I later found out (thanks to a member on this forum) that there is a huge resale difference between the irde2 and the kappa2. I'm now glad that I opted for the kappa2 engine.

Originally Posted by Live To Jive

The IRDE2 is supposed to be an improvement over the IRDE. However there are no reviews of it. Between the IRDE & Kappa (old), the IRDE was the winner. The Kappa did not deliver on the better milege promise. All the hype about being a superior engine etc was just hype. Many BHPians have written reviews and most got quite low milege (and some were even happy with the low milege). However the Kappa2 has addressed this problem and now we have a gem of an engine. The VTVT (like vtec) ensures that when you're driving with a light foot (like Melvyn) you will get good milege. However when you floor the throttle the VTVT kicks in giving you the power and compromising on milege.
There's a big difference in the re-sale of the IRDE and Kappa. Hence I would recomend the Kappa2. Based on Melvyn's thread and the above points, a friend of mine opted for the i10 Kappa2.

It is true that many of the kappa1 owners (even those on this forum) were left disheartened over the poor fuel economy, after falling for Hyundai's claims that the kappa1 was supposed to be a frugal engine. Imagine then, the plight of those 120 kappa1 owners who now have to live with a lesser-than-expected FE on a car heavier than that of the I10.

The I10's FE was my main concern, especially after interacting with some I10 owners. Given my light-footed driving style, I had hoped to get about 16 kmpl, but the first tank-to-tank test of 18.7 kmpl on my I10 exceeded my expectations.

I can't comment on the benefits of the irde2 as I did not test drive one. But it appears (from technicians at the Hyundai dealer) that a large majority of I10 owners opt for the kappa2 engine.

Thanks,
Melvyn

[blackasta]

This tea/coffee thingy varies from dealer to dealer.
We were always offered a choice between tea/coffee/coke/water whenever we visited Mukesh Hyundai.
Last time I went in (just to buy a car cover - 5 min task) , they offered tea/coke/water. So its fully the attitude of the dealer.

[puneet8796]

Originally Posted by misquitas

...In our opinion, while other cars stood out on a few features, the I10 stood out because it had a little of everything. It had...

1. a silent and powerful 1.2 engine
2. comfortable seating for 4 and decent seating for 5,
3. great fit and finish
4. decent road stability
5. easy ingress and ingress
6. good driver's view
7. good pan-India sales/service network
8. decent fuel economy
9. decent cabin/boot space
10. decent all round looks

For us, no one car other than the I10 had all these 10 features and hence, the I10 had scored a perfect 10.

This was an extremely enjoyable review - kept me hooked till the end. And you accurately described the reasons you quoted for choosing i10.

I am not so lucky on my Gen1 Kappa Sportz - I get only about 13 KMPL, Maybe because of frequent short trips I have (my office to home is just 3 kms) and my love of flooring the throttle on all empty stretches.

Nonetheless, it is one heck of a car - enjoy your ownership and drive safe.

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by blackasta

This tea/coffee thingy varies from dealer to dealer.
We were always offered a choice between tea/coffee/coke/water whenever we visited Mukesh Hyundai.
Last time I went in (just to buy a car cover - 5 min task) , they offered tea/coke/water. So its fully the attitude of the dealer.

Yes, I agree that the dealer can make a big difference in ensuring the satisfaction of a customer. I felt that a Tata car had the potential and could easily have been in our garage by now. However, the casual attitude of the dealer prompted us to look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by puneet8796

This was an extremely enjoyable review - kept me hooked till the end. And you accurately described the reasons you quoted for choosing i10.

I am not so lucky on my Gen1 Kappa Sportz - I get only about 13 KMPL, Maybe because of frequent short trips I have (my office to home is just 3 kms) and my love of flooring the throttle on all empty stretches.

Nonetheless, it is one heck of a car - enjoy your ownership and drive safe.

Thank you, puneet8796, for your comments. In fact, many owners like yourself (especially on this forum) have been disappointed by the less-than-expected fuel economy.

The initial FE of 18.7 kmpl that I got could have been influenced by the following factors....

1. On an open road here in Goa, I generally drive at about 60-70 kmpl in the 5th gear.
2. I am light-footed and accelerate as gently as possible. Hence, no heavy throttle or sharp breaking in my case, unless necessary.
3. Much of my driving is without an AC and the AC is used only (a) on a hot afternoon here in Goa, (b) if we are stuck in traffic and exhaust pipes around are pumping out smoke or (c) if we are going for a function and wife does not want her hair blown all over the face as it happens when windows are down.
4. I try to drive within the 2K RPM range as much as possible.
5. I plan out in advance while driving when I'm off duty so that I can avoid/minimize congested routes.

Point is, it IS possible to get a decent-to-great fuel economy on the I10, provided the driving conditions are right. The nice part of the I10 is that it allows spirited drivers extract the best performance out of its 1.2 VTVT engine and also allows sedate drivers (like myself) to extract a good FE.

As I said in an earlier post, the I10 offers a little of everything for everyone.

Thanks,
Melvyn

[Reinhard]

Hey Melvyn, wonder how I missed your post earlier. Very neat and informative report indeed. Speaks a lot of precise details and facts. Definitely helpful for prospective buyers. I wish dealership guys also read TBHP and learn where they are messing it up. Congratulations on an excellent car. Nice pictures. Wishing you & your family unlimited happy miles with your i10. Keep the updates and pictures coming...

[carZest]

hi melvyn, an excellent write-up. very balanced! usually FE increases a wee bit after the 1st/2nd service. Would be interesting to see if you actually hit 20 kmpl that will make it an "i10-20"!!

enjoy the ride and drive safe.

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Hey Melvyn, wonder how I missed your post earlier. Very neat and informative report indeed. Speaks a lot of precise details and facts. Definitely helpful for prospective buyers. I wish dealership guys also read TBHP and learn where they are messing it up. Congratulations on an excellent car. Nice pictures. Wishing you & your family unlimited happy miles with your i10. Keep the updates and pictures coming...

Thanks, Reinhard, for your comments. When I began scribbling the review, I did not realize that I would end up with over 7,200 words spread across 11 A4 pages.

The journey (experience of shortlisting a car) was as rewarding as the destination (experience of purchasing the I10). The different test drives not only gave me knowledge of the vehicle, but more importantly, it offered me valuable clues about the dealer. Buying a car is one challenge, owning and maintaining it is another. I have always believed that a dealer can make or break a vehicle.

For example, one Tata dealer at Panjim did not even have diesel on its test drive vehicle. The other Tata dealer at Verna offered me a test drive on a brand new vehicle that was to be delivered to a customer. If these Tata dealers do not have the will (or money) to have a demo car ready at all times, how are they expected to earn the confidence of a potential customer?

Another valuable lesson I learned was this: It is immensely beneficial to do your own research on a car. Most sales executives in almost all of the different car dealers that we visited here in Goa had limited knowledge of the car in their own showroom. Some openly (and sheepishly) admitted that they were unaware of certain features of a car, until I brought it to their notice. A few others tried to claim non-existent features on a particular variant, till we exposed them by proving them wrong.

In one such case, a Ford sales executive was unaware that Ford did not have dealers in many parts of Karnataka, until I told him so. I even advised him to check out his own website for details. Another sales person at a Hyundai dealer was unaware of identifying a vehicle and period of manufacture on the basis of the VIN number. I happened to download the VIN identification chart of the I10 from a thread on this forum. When I succeeded in identifying the details of the I10 on the basis of the VIN, the sales person was impressed with this knowledge and quickly asked me if she could make a photocopy of the VIN identification chart for her reference.

Though (as mentioned in my opening post) I'm not familiar about technical/mechanical aspects of a car, I ended up educating many sales executives on the cars in their own showroom, thanks largely to the wealth of information that I collected from team-bhp.com. I had advised many of these sales executives to become members of team-bhp.com or at least visit the website as guests, so that they can enhance their knowledge of the cars they plan to sell to their customers.

I am glad that we could test drive different cars for about 2 weeks before we eventually decided on the I10. Many may not have the luxury, time or inclination to do so and may end up making a quick (and perhaps, hasty) decision. I believe it is always good to have a list of cars that you would like to consider and then eliminate them till you have two main candidates. These two cars should then be put through various checks and parameters that you have in mind, until one car emerges as the winner.

Originally Posted by carZest

hi melvyn, an excellent write-up. very balanced! usually FE increases a wee bit after the 1st/2nd service. Would be interesting to see if you actually hit 20 kmpl that will make it an "i10-20"!!

enjoy the ride and drive safe.

Thanks, carZest, for your comments. It would certainly be interesting (and delightful) to touch the 20 kmpl mark on my I10. I mean, I could technically attain that figure if I were to cruise on a highway at 60 kmph on the fifth gear. But then, much of my driving is in mixed conditions here in Goa. You can get busy traffic within Panjim and Margao as well as scanty traffic between these two cities. My average kmpl reading is on the basis of all kinds of driving conditions within a given 300-500 km period.