[khoj]

Is that not the answer right there. After all at the end of the day, it will be you putting the pedal to the metal.

Originally Posted by psaikygms1

Just checked out the Volvo S60 D4 Summum version today and felt it was great value for money. I am keen to select this car.

Hmm.....Citi strong brand globally but in India how many people are aware of it or rather see value in it, very very few. Yet, those who do do bank with them. Same for Volvo

However, given the lack of brand awareness for Volvo cars and reputed low service network, is it worth a buy?

You know this service network thing is so cliched. It's like a fad question to ask. At the end of the day it is not a Maruti or a Hyundai neither a Honda nor a Toyota, infact not even a GM or Ford. So outside of the five Metros & state capitals & a couple of grade 'A' cities (Surat, Cochin, Pune etc) there will be no support for the next say 10 years. Now what?

Now "un-banker" yourself and like a true motoring enthusiast cross that bridge when you come to it.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by psaikygms1

Just checked out the Volvo S60 D4 Summum version today and felt it was great value for money. I am keen to select this car. However, given the lack of brand awareness for Volvo cars and reputed low service network, is it worth a buy? A few members seem to have bought S60s in the last few years. What is their service experience with Volvo for their cars in say NCR and/or Mumbai? Please advise before I make up my mind.

As Khoj says it so well un-Banker yourself and go for it. I recently bought the XC60 AWD D5 from Swede Auto, Gurgaon and don't regret it for a minute. Service is responsive. Attitude is way ahead of Audi and Mercedes (I don't know about BMW). My car does a few outstation journeys each month to places in 2 to 3 hour driving time. So far no issues. The S60 has low ground clearance that may be one point to evaluate. Ask Swede Auto to introduce you to a few owners of the S60 and talk to them. That's what I did.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by GTO

The 3-series trumps the Volvo S60 in performance, space, equipment and service network. Honestly, the S60 diesel is an awful buy at the price. The diesel is terribly mediocre, compared to the T6 AWD variant.

My pick would be the BMW. The A4 is too old (6 years up on the current generation) and I simply don't understand why anyone would buy the Audi when the mechanically-identical Jetta is so much cheaper. There's the new MQB platform Octavia too.

What choice between the 3 and the 3 GT today? I feel the 3 offers that little bit crucial extra over the 3 in space without getting into a package as big as the 5. To me it seems like the perfect fit between the 3 and the 5. Any thoughts anyone?

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Axe77

What choice between the 3 and the 3 GT today? I feel the 3 offers that little bit crucial extra over the 3 in space without getting into a package as big as the 5. To me it seems like the perfect fit between the 3 and the 5. Any thoughts anyone?

The handling balance is a little compromised. Not as slick as a 3

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by ajmat

The handling balance is a little compromised. Not as slick as a 3

Thanks Ajmat. That's what I've heard too. However, as an overall package I found the GT much more desirable. Its got that little extra crucial room, the rear seating is also a bit more comfy etc. I felt good sitting anywhere inside the GT whereas I never feel like buying the 3 when I sit in it. The driving experience felt good enough even if the 3 has that slight extra edge. Its not dead like the CVT A4 & A6.

On a related note, BMW is going really all out with offers on the 3. You can get a sportsline currently for sub 40 with the 3 year BSI included. I guess its because of the impending facelift but it seems like a fantastic deal on buying a 3.

I'm really tempted by the 3 GT. Not sure how the market perceives it (I feel its not a "successful" product and may have lesser interest in the 2nd hand market. All depends on home ministry approvals of course.

Is there any reason (other than the handling compromise) that one should avoid the 3 GT? Resale, any fatal flaws, impending update around the corner etc?

EDIT: Between the 3GT and the current C, anyone has views on what's the better buy? I'm a bit put off by the run flats approach to the new C. The old one had a spare wheel in the wheel well if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks

[Hells Bells]

I found the interiors of GT to be much nicer than the 3. It clearly looks more bulked up (not necessarily in a nice way) but it does not look that bad too!The question is not how much is the handling degraded but rather how much of the degradation are you able to perceive

[Axe77]

To me honestly I don't think the micro difference in handling would matter that much. What is however quite useful is the tremendously additional usable boot space (even after keeping the spare), the notchback flexibility like the Octi - all this is very useful over every other similarly priced competitor like the new C, 3 and A4 and barring the seat drop factor the Q3 too.

Add to that the fact that the seats are a little higher and more comfortable - certainly much more compfy than the C and I'm sure more comfy than the 3 too. I feel overall it makes a more acceptable package.

I can't seem to understand why we don't see more GTs on the road. Is it a failed model?

[RohanDheman]

Originally Posted by Axe77

I'm a bit put off by the run flats approach to the new C. The old one had a spare wheel in the wheel well if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks

Not just a spare wheel, but a proper fifth alloy. This was one of the major reasons why I went in for the C over the A4 and 3. In the new C, the spare wheels eats into the boot space completely since its tied down. Basically what it means is that you absolutely have to remove the spare to put luggage in.

you can see a picture i had previously posted here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...x-delhi-5.html

Rohan

[volkman10]

Volvo S60 Cross Country India bound

Unique S60 Cross Country sedan gets AWD and SUV-like ground clearance. India launch confirmed.

The S60 Cross Country is not only visually jacked up, but it also comes as an all-wheel drive with raised ride height to allow buyers the choice of a four-door sedan body style and yet give them the freedom for occasional off-roading.

For India, the S60 Cross Country will come with a five-cylinder 2.4-litre D4 engine that makes 178bhp. Ride height has been increased by 65mm over the standard sedan. The S60 Cross Country will come with the same equipment seen on the top-spec standard S60 sedan.

As far as the pricing goes, it is safe to expect a premium of Rs 4-5 lakh over the S60 sedan.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...nd-398059.aspx

[holysmoke]

Originally Posted by Axe77

To me honestly I don't think the micro difference in handling would matter that much. What is however quite useful is the tremendously additional usable boot space (even after keeping the spare), the notchback flexibility like the Octi - all this is very useful over every other similarly priced competitor like the new C, 3 and A4 and barring the seat drop factor the Q3 too.

Add to that the fact that the seats are a little higher and more comfortable - certainly much more compfy than the C and I'm sure more comfy than the 3 too. I feel overall it makes a more acceptable package.

I can't seem to understand why we don't see more GTs on the road. Is it a failed model?

Hey,
A 3 GT owner here.
I'd say that the handling is not as good as the 3, but its still a lot above average.
However, the ride is friggin amazing. None of my other cars have such an awesome ride. And on mumbai roads, it makes a huge difference.
Space is a lot more.. more than the 5 infact. And the party tricks like the spoiler and the frameless doors added to the appeal when I got it.

I'd say the reason it isnt that widely seen is that the car was expensive earlier.. there was no sport line.. however now I'm seeing a lot of them in Mumbai.
I've got mine with a 5 year BSI, and don't really factor in resale value when I'm buying cars for 100k km.

[drmohitg]

I would tend to agree. The 3GT is a better all rounder car if the discounts are good enough. I would have opted for it when I bought the 3 but the car was a new launch at the time with no significant discount and so was beyond my budget. The extra space inside and in the boot with the higher GC is a boon on our roads. And as rightly mentioned, those frameless doors and rear spoiler make the car feel special and exclusive.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by holysmoke

Hey,

A 3 GT owner here.

I'd say that the handling is not as good as the 3, but its still a lot above average.

However, the ride is friggin amazing. None of my other cars have such an awesome ride. And on mumbai roads, it makes a huge difference.

Space is a lot more.. more than the 5 infact. And the party tricks like the spoiler and the frameless doors added to the appeal when I got it.



I'd say the reason it isnt that widely seen is that the car was expensive earlier.. there was no sport line.. however now I'm seeing a lot of them in Mumbai.

I've got mine with a 5 year BSI, and don't really factor in resale value when I'm buying cars for 100k km.

Completely agree with all the points above. Are you suggesting resale is lower on the GT? Boot space of 5 and 3 GT both 520 litres but GT boot design makes it much more usable. 5 is really deep so unusable with space saver.

Absolutely loved the 3 GT for all the above reasons. 3 still has better discounts but for the sports line, the additional 4-5 lakhs spent truly worth it for GT.

[holysmoke]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Completely agree with all the points above. Are you suggesting resale is lower on the GT? Boot space of 5 and 3 GT both 520 litres but GT boot design makes it much more usable. 5 is really deep so unusable with space saver.

Absolutely loved the 3 GT for all the above reasons. 3 still has better discounts but for the sports line, the additional 4-5 lakhs spent truly worth it for GT.

With regards to space.. I was actually talking about rear seat space.. 3gt is more than the 5.
When I am talking about resale.. I meant it won't make much of a difference... I'm not looking to sell my car in less than 5 years so diff in resale was not a factor i considered while buying the car. Let's see.. Right now I'm quite happy with this car.. In fact I was choosing between this and the 5/e and picked this. Major reasons are.

1. Rear space is more than the 5/e.
2. Ride is better.
3. Good ground clearance. Have a breaker near my office that my superb occasionally hits but this hasn't hit anything even once in my 12k of driving.
4. Party tricks like frameless doors and retractable spoiler and automatic boot.
5. Exclusivity alongwith the peace of mind of BSI. This is a rare combo.

I actually was one of the first, if not the first to get the sports line in Mumbai. Got it before they had officially launched it. Love it.. Black interiors look really good with the red stitching.. And the sport seats take some getting used to but once you're used to them they're perfect.

Probably would buy the same car again if I was in the market for a similar car. (At least until the new E launches ).

[Axe77]

Yup. Agree on rear space too. I've sat many times in the back of my colleague's 5 and the gt feels more comfy. Sports line for some reason no longer comes with black - or at least is not readily available. But on every other front except maybe the sunroof and leather seats, I prefer what the sports line gives over the luxury line.

[Axe77]

Hi everyone. So I finally took the plunge on an Imperial Blue 3GT Sportsline - sort of an impulse buy and really made up my mind literally within 3 - 4 days.

I’m not very good with reviews so I’ll briefly outline the decision making process that led up to the 3 GT purchase.

The garage (pre-purchase):

Sunny D (Aug ‘12): workhorse
Civic A/T (Aug 09): Largely for self-use although the driver chauffeurs me around in it as well when required.
City A/T (Aug 09): The easier to drive A/T option around the city. Comfortable sedan with a big boot for airport trips plus compact enough to self-drive such that you don’t miss a hatch in the garage.

The requirement:

In a perfect world, I’d like my garage to comprise the following vehicles. I’d like every car to be an A/T if possible so I don’t begrudge getting behind the wheel of any vehicle that’s at my disposal.

1. A nice luxury sedan that I would largely self-drive and give to the chauffeur only when required (maybe 50/50 eventually but 80/20 initially with 80 being self). Should not be TOO large since I’d like to drive myself very often (e.g: Octavia, Jetta, Altis, Superb, 3, C, E etc). Ideally within 40/42 lakhs. Diesel is really nice but not an absolute must.
   
2. A workhorse. My perfect ask would be the 2016 Innova in A/T guise. If not that, perhaps a Creta D-A/T. It’s the kind of car that is respectable enough to be chauffeur driven in even to a meeting or to work. That would mean typically C segment / 12-13 lakh and up. Examples – Vento D-A/T; Creta D-A/T; Innova D-A/T. Ideally should be a diesel since it will bear the brunt of the mileage clocked in our house. I might consider sacrificing the A/T bit so long as its diesel. But then the car should be a reasonably fun to drive manual should I ever choose to drive it. Examples: S – Cross D; Baleno D. If that too fails, in the interest of 7 seat flexibility and Diesel, I would also consider options like Honda BR-V (D) and Mobilio (D).
   
3. The Honda City A/T as long as it survives (8-9 years) which if 1. and 2. are acquired as per plan, could be replaced with a suitable A/T premium hatchback like Polo TSI, Jazz, Baleno or even Grand i10 (or whatever is the equivalent in the market at the time of change). This HAS TO be A/T since my mom should also feel comfy driving it.

I don’t have the budget to replace 1. and 2. too close to each other, would need at least 12 – 18 months space between the upgrades. Ideally, that would have meant changing the Sunny next year with an Innova A/T and changing the Civic later with a premium sedan. But I can’t bear to wait that long for the premium sedan and therefore I started looking for a premium FTD sedan right away but by selling the Sunny workhorse. In the interim, I will use the Civic as the workhorse and simply absorb the increased fuel consumption. I simply love my civic and couldn’t bear to sell it even though its 6 years old. The Sunny on the other hand I was delighted to get out of my house.


The options:

Octavia

This is what started it all actually. I was actively considering the Anniversary Edition of the Octy in top of line trim. So we’re talking an accomplished sedan with great boot space, notchback flexibility, 5 tyres (call me old fashioned), paddle shifters and a palatable price tag of 26 lakh on road. Downside - SKODA!! I was otherwise pretty sold on the vehicle.

The Pros:

• Fun to drive.
• Diesel A/T
• Looks – I simply love the understated class that the Octy exudes. Much better looking than the outgoing Laura (it also helps that its not called ‘Laura’).
• Paddle shifters on the anniversary edition (I love paddle shifters)
• Notchback flexibility
• Proper spare wheel.
• Excellent boot space.
• Not prohibitively expensive. I can easily combine it with an Innova as well next year and still be within 45 lakhs on outflow.

The Cons:

• Will I really feel like I’ve upgraded after 6 years of the Civic. It is undoubtedly superior to my Civic but how long will it keep me happy. In that sense, the new Superb would be perfect although the downside would be it’s a pretty big vehicle to pilot for self-drive. Genuine no questions upgrade (the Superb).
• Inferior suspension with D-A/T.
• The VAG factor – reliability issues, poor after sales experience and generally a sub-par approach in addressing customer issues.
• The petrol engine is simply explosive in power delivery. However that can’t be said of the diesel. While its powerful enough to bring a smile to the face, it won’t contort your face into a stupid grin like the petrol does. Although I’m not hell bent on diesel, the economy (as well as resale advantage) that comes with it are very welcome. To that extent, I would have picked the Octy diesel over the petrol. Not to mention the DQ 200 factor in the petrol.

Skoda Superb (2016):

Pros

• Drop dead stunning looks. I simply loved the new design language that is like the Octy. I don’t care too much for the odd ball proportions of the current Superb. The new Superb makes a VERY compelling case for itself on every front.
• No doubting that it represents an upgrade in every sense.
• Diesel A/T
• Notchback flexibility
• Proper spare wheel.
• Excellent boot space.

Cons

• Size. All things being equal, I actually prefer the size of the Octy – its perfect for self-drive on every front.
• The VAG factor – reliability issues, poor after sales experience and generally a sub-par approach in addressing customer issues.
• I don’t know about engine options but after spending what I assume would be 35 L or thereabouts, I would want the diesel engine to be in the 160+ BHP range. Anything less and it would make me question the purchase. The current 140 BHP offering is a bit of a downer.

New C class

Pros

• Love the looks. It is simply gorgeous.
• Sitting inside (front) there’s no mistaking you’re in a very luxurious sedan. I simply love the Mercs from the inside. Much better than any equivalent BMW for sure and many times than the comparable Audis too.

Cons

• Very cramped at the back.
• No spare wheel. The awkward size and shape of the boot makes it virtually unusable once the space saver is kept. Simply not practical for anything beyond a basic in-city commute. This alone makes it a deal breaker.
• Really pricey even after the discounts.
• Merc reliability is still a notch lower than BMW in India (my anecdotal understanding).
• No BSI type assurance with the Merc. When it comes to owning an expensive German, the BSI factor played a BIG part in my ultimate decision.

Any Audi

Not even worth considering. I refuse to pay that much money for a glorified VAG product with underwhelming CVT gearboxes (the new A6 with DSG is well beyond my budget). I like the looks of the Audi but simply don’t care to be subjected to VAG ownership at that price point. Too much money to risk on the group.

3 series

Much more spacious than the C but still cramped boot once you put in the space saver. Also, both the 3 and C (and 5 for that matter) make you sit really low, are fairly cramped (not the 5), and come with very limited boot space. For all the plushness and driving pleasure they provide, a Superb / Octy / Camry just give you a much more complete car experience compared to this.

Camry Hybrid

Pros

• Beautiful car in every sense
• I found it reasonably satisfying to drive as well
• The comfort is just superlative.

Cons

• Size. This is much better as a chauffeur driven car. Self-drive is quite cumbersome
• Boot. Moving that much real estate around and getting a 400 litre in return makes you feel a bit short changed.
• I won’t be surprised if 6 – 7 years later I pick this as a 3 GT replacement. I’d be in my mid 40s by then and it would be perfect. At this time, I would rather see myself enjoying the Joy of Driving than the Luxury of the Camry.

E class

• Literally ticks every single box.
• Proper full size sedan unlike the 3 & C etc.
• Big boot
• Full size spare wheel (alas I suspect that will no longer be with the new E next year)
• Luxury, space, driving pleasure all superlative.

The only fly in the ointment – price. I simply did not feel up to making the extra cash stretch to go up to E class even on the discounted values. On an unrelated note, if I were to consider spending the 53 – 55 odd lakh asking price for this, I would have picked the E over the 5 hands down. Reason? Full boot with no space saver hassle, more comfortable to sit at the back than the 5. Generally, I find the inside of a Merc a nicer place to be than the corresponding BMW.

Budget is the only reason I did not go for this car since the 3 GT was already a bit of a stretch.

BMW 3 GT

Enter the 3 GT (sportsline) now. This car just blew me away. Had it not been for the GT, I would in all likelihood put my money down on either the Camry or the new Superb.

At only marginally more money than a C (and a little more gap to a 3), I got a car that checked most of the boxes for me.

Pros

• I like the extra space the car brings in many ways.
• You sit a little higher and therefore more comfortable
• Leg room is better.
• Boot space is much better than 3, C and 5 (both 5 series and 3 GT have 520 litre boots but the 3 GT is much more usable because its taller instead of deeper. The 5 series boot is deep and shallow so pretty unusable with a spare wheel.
• You get notchback flexibility that further absorbs the disadvantage of the space saver. Available boot space can really be played around with because of this factor, dropping seats, using the space above the parcel etc.
• BSI / Secure peace of mind (5 years 60,000 km). I’ve paid well under 50 lakh ALL inclusive and going forward, I only need to pay for fuel and annual insurance / secure. Everything else pre-paid for with peace of mind for every single nut and bolt that can misfire. Coming from a family that’s only owned Jap (& some Korean) cars, this was a HUGE comfort factor in taking the German plunge.
• BMW reliability as well as after sales has possibly the best reputation amongst the hallowed trio. Also better than the VAG offerings.
• It does stand out as slightly unique and is not as common as many other luxury cars out there.
• Genuine high performance purchase. Absolutely no feeling of comprise on the driving pleasure aspect.

Cons

• The space saver in the boot nuisance factor is still there.
• Looks. I quite like it and certainly don’t find it offensive. I still acknowledge thought that it’s a bit of an acquired taste and won’t be surprised at all if someone finds it plain dowdy or even awkward.
• I think the info display on dashboard could have been livelier. Doesn’t look as premium as the Mercs, Audis and the BMWs that are 5 / X3 and up.
• Missing sunroof on the sportsline. Barring that one aspect, I prefer the sportsline over the luxury line in many respects. Front seats have the extra bolstering, red stitch on the steering, missing chrome around the door frame (I prefer that), the alloys – much better on the sportsline.

For all the above reasons, from the available options the 3 GT made absolutely the most sense for me at this point. I’m not that experienced at these high end cars, still coming to terms with a lot of the gadgetry so I may or may not have responses to a lot of the technical questions. However, if there’s any input from a decision making standpoint, I’d me more than willing to address this.

Short note on the dealership experience: Navnit, Andheri

I bought my car from Navnit Motors Andheri (Mumbai) and must make it a point to mention that I found them absolutely fantastic. My primary point of contact was Darshan (and supported briefly by his senior Ayaz) both were absolutely fantastic. They were proactive, facilitative, prompt (without being pushy) and gave me a better deal than Infinity quite quickly. My pal and I both were in the market to pick up a 3 GT each and even though both dealers knew we were potentially a 2 car purchase, Infinity was still a little thanda in comparison to its approach. My experience with Navnit from first conversation right up to delivery has been stellar and I would have no hesitation in recommending Navnit (and Darshan & Ayaz at Navnit) to anyone on the lookout for a Beemer.

I'm posting a few initial pictures that I took at the time of delivery and shortly after. I actually haven't clicked any pics of the interiors. Will try and put those up later.

Cheers,