[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Well, that looks more like an exception. None of mine BMW's have ever spent more time in the workshop than probably anything else I owned including Ford and Toyota. I think both MB & BMW are fairly reliable. Most of the horror stories here on the forum as well in my circle are from Skoda, JLR & Audi.

Actually, you are pretty spot on with that. 2 of the Germans at home are VWAG cars, and our BMW experience has been amazing!
8 years on, our 5 series costs less to maintain than the much newer A6, and has probably spent way lesser time than the A6 at the workshop too!

Mercedes - we had a W211 E270 CDI which to be fair wasn't as reliable as the E220/280CDI, and our current c220D already has a wonky seatbelt sensor within a month of ownership. I'll keep my opinion on Mercedes' on hold for a little bit more.

The biggest reason for the downtime though is just the wait for an appointment, and then the subsequent wait for spare parts.

No comments on the Fords and Toyotas though - we have had a splendid experience with our Etios, Liva, Fiesta, and Ikons though.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

This is the car and colour ordered. I have taken it from the dealer in writing that the amount will be refunded if I am not pleased after my test drive and first viewing. Doing that in Dubai on 14th December. Meeting a senior Lexus executive on Saturday 3rd December. Will update this thread on both events.

Congratulations! The car looks wicked in that shade!
Was the final OTR 66L or was that the ex-showroom price? If it's the OTR, then the germans have serious competition on their hands!

[Turbanator]

I will update this thread after my test drive in Dubai on 14th December

Thanks for keeping all of us updated. I will suggest you to find time and visit local MB Dealer in Dubai and look specifically for new E Class

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Congratulations! The car looks wicked in that shade!
Was the final OTR 66L or was that the ex-showroom price? If it's the OTR, then the germans have serious competition on their hands!

It is the ex-Showroom price. OTR could be 70L. Toyota have not, formally, released any price data yet.

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

It is the ex-Showroom price. OTR could be 70L. Toyota have not, formally, released any price data yet.

A 65L Ex-showroom, should be 80-85L OTR? Is the ex-showroom price confirmed?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by VellVector

A 65L Ex-showroom, should be 80-85L OTR? Is the ex-showroom price confirmed?

Once I get a formal intimation on the price I'll post it on this thread.

[V.Narayan]

Did a short drive in Dubai and spent time in both the front & rear seats. This was the 2015 model of a business associate and not the 2017 Lexus hopes to bring to india next year. Also visited their showroom to examine the 2017 model. Quick take aways -

1. Cushy soft ride especially in the rear seat. Much better than our Volvo XC60 and much much better than our Superb. This attribute I really liked. Is it better than an E-Class - hard to say as this is so subjective - but certainly equal. Sadly No potholes in Dubai to thoroughly test the soft cushy rear seat ride aspect!

2. Cabin is very quiet. Within city driving the electric motor is doing most of the work most of the time especially at starts from a signal and acceleration to around 40kmph. This adds to the cabin's quietness other than the effective sound insulation that keeps the road's ambient noise out. This was a great discovery as I spend my time in the rear seat either on the phone or relaxing.

3. Leg room slightly less than the Superb with a 5' 9" driver seated upfront . Just slightly. Slightly better than the current E-Class but much better than BMW 5 or A6.

4. One has to bend a bit to get into the rear cabin. Not as much as in a C class but say as much as in a E class. Bad. This piece I don’t like.

5. Moving off a traffic light and crawling in slow traffic the electric motor only mode is super quiet. Adds to comfort and less fatigue (my assumption). Given that the mind is tuned to some growl from the engine this seems counter intuitive. It takes getting used to.

6. The quality of the interiors are very good - leather, matt finish bamboo wood, stitching in an off-shade. The vehicle I examined had interiors one tier lower than the top spec they are introducing in India. So I will hold off my comments as interiors is important for us for this particular purchase. Nevertheless it was fully comparable or a little better to the Volvo S.90 which I had checked out in Delhi-NCR on Sunday last.

7. Dickey at 485 litres is smaller than expected. Reason - some of the dickey space is used by the batteries.

8. Ground clearance 151 cms. Same as our Superb. Nor great but will suffice.

9. This is not a car for the enthusiast - not at all. It is a car for smooth noiseless cruising and low fatigue city driving. I am not an enthusiast and certainly hope neither are the drivers in my employ.

10. Looks - well let me say like marmite's taste - it grows on you. In the good looks department nothing to equal a Volvo S.90 or BMW 5 in this category. The ES300H is well proportioned. It is actually larger than it looks in photographs. Because of the finish on the surface it looks well appointed. But I will admit, with a sigh, that Toyota-Lexus need to revamp their exterior design team!! Of the Lexus range the ES probably has the most balanced looks. Some of the SUVs were frightening from the front face.

I hope this is useful to BHPians. Based on my short experience , our desire to go electric, our requirement for higher quality interiors I am inclined to go ahead but based on suggestions from brother BHPians on this thread I have asked Lexus to hold my booking on amber till the car is available in India for a test drive. This is expected by end-January in Delhi-NCR. Lexus have been nice enough to keep my booking alive but not bank my cheque.

In the meantime I received an email reply from the Managing Director of Volvo India that the S.90 Hybrid plug in will arrive into India in the first calendar quarter of 2018. This creates a dilemma in my head. Should I wait till Q1 2018 and or go for the Lexus ES300H in Q1 2017. And then brother Turbanator has been putting the case for the new E (but I am prejudiced against Mercedes in India). Your continued advice will be graciously received and dwelt upon. But for Lamborghini I would not have thought of the Lexus and but for the advice on this thread from BHPians I would not have put my booking on amber. Enjoying the full value of Team BHP.

[dipen]

I second Turbanator on his justified suggestion/tilting to explore other options.

Understand you somewhere are inclined for a hybrid/electric. But the kind of money the Lexus would cost you would not be value for money. Unique on the road = Yes. But 75-80 OTR it is just wild.

Regarding peaceful ownership experience; the BMWs and Mercedes would be very similar. But remember the Lexus is coming as a CBU. So part availability is also not going to be the best. At current price, it will not have that many buyers, so part stocking cannot be at a very high level. So the wait times are going to be similar.

Regarding your heart-wish to go for a hybrid; would suggest to get a polluting vehicle at the moment and go for a hybrid 3-5 years down the line when there are more options.

Also dont forget the Lexus will depreciate higher than the German CKDs on absolute value terms as is the case with all CBUs.

Also, which interior do your prefer since interior premiumness is also one of your criteria.
http://www.2017electriccars.com/wp-c...h-interior.jpg
http://autoguide.com.vsassets.com/bl...rear-seats.jpg (2016)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PscfLc9AhQQ/maxresdefault.jpg
http://gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploa...-Wheelbase.jpg

[V.Narayan]

The Lexus sample car has not yet come to NCR for the test drive. Sad. It is said the sample did go to Mumbai & Chennai & Cochin(!!). This is a disappointment but I will wait. Will update as we go along. As a family we have always been conservative with our cars. My mother & aunt cruise around in a Honda Amaze and I often drive the Jazz to work. The prospect of a Rs 70L car is causing some consternation in the family but my last middle age hurrah is waiting.

If Toyota don't launch then maybe I will refurbish & repaint the Skoda Superb and wait for the Volvo S.90 plug-in hybrid that the Volvo M.D. wrote will come in 2018. Quite clear that the next buy should be hybrid or plug-in.

Would like your views on re-painting. Would do it at Skoda. I like my cars to be ship-shape and shining. After 6 years and 110k+ kms the Superb MT looks a little tired - though otherwise in good shape.

Dipen, thank you for your inputs & links. The interior combination I've ordered is this one below -

[zulfi hansi]

@Narayan; IMHO you deserve the long wheel base new V213 MB E Class 350d, why? because it will cost you the same as the Lexus that you have booked, and it will tick all the boxes you needed. Yes it is not understated but then at your stature you deserve a ride of your stature. Do think about it. This is one Mercedes that may back seat owners have been waiting for [under S Class of course].

[ackyash]

Whats with Mercedes and spare tyres? New GLC has them sitting on top of the boot floor, same as new E class. I almost booked new GLC, but once I looked at the trunk and saw that the spare tyre had eaten up more than 60 percent of boot space, decided against the car. For someone who regularly heads out of town, both spare tyre (even a donut will do) and full availability of boot is a must. Even BMW is now starting to provide spare under the boot floor in its new models such as the new X1.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

IMHO you deserve the long wheel base new V213 MB E Class 350d, why? because it will cost you the same as the Lexus that you have booked, and it will tick all the boxes you needed. Yes it is not understated but then at your stature you deserve a ride of your stature. Do think about it.

Thank you for your advice. The new 'E' is certainly a head turner and with its LWB avatar becomes even more attractive. My preference decidedly is to move down the hybrid and plug-in hybrid route now. Frankly at Rs 65 to 70L the Lexus ES and others of its range make me gawk and choke. The sample car for test drives hasn't come yet. I'll take a final call after driving it and savouring the rear bench.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you for your advice. The new 'E' is certainly a head turner and with its LWB avatar becomes even more attractive. My preference decidedly is to move down the hybrid and plug-in hybrid route now. Frankly at Rs 65 to 70L the Lexus ES and others of its range make me gawk and choke. The sample car for test drives hasn't come yet. I'll take a final call after driving it and savouring the rear bench.

Maybe relook at the Camry?

Sat in the ES350 for a good while in Dubai recently, and though the interiors look and feel decidedly premium over the Camry, I didn't notice much else. In fact, that particular car didn't even come with the rear seat recline feature which the Camry has.
Plus, with the 12 speaker JBL system and Wireless charging, the Camry seems to be better kitted out.
Same engine, tremendous legroom, comfortable ride, 9 airbags (?). Just doesn't feel as premium which is fair given it's 50% of the price!

[Epic]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Which Car - Advice and opinions sought from BHPians


Our Skoda Superb (manual transmission) is now 6 years old and has done 1.2 lakhs kms or thereabouts. I am inclined to change the car or should I refurbish it (??). This thread is to seek your advice on which car to acquire as a replacement.

We were in a similar predicament a couple of months ago. We too had a a 06 year old Skoda Superb and were looking to 'upgrade' the car. We too looked at the Camry Hybrid, Merc E, BMW 5 and Audi A6. An then we looked at the 2016 Skoda Superb too.

After many a test drive with the 3 big Germans and the Camry, we ended up buying the 2016 Skoda Superb L&K. The reason being, all cars had their own signatures; the Merc had the best interiors, the BMW had the best driving experience, the Audi A6 had a bit of both and I personally felt it looks more sporty. The Camry impressed us the least except for its rear seats.

However, what they all lacked was the humongous boot space that the Superb offered. The rear seating space is also as much if not better than the rest. Another thing that put us off is the RFTs on the Merc and BMW and their lack of the hidden spare tyre which ate up the boot space. The Camry Hybrid did not really have much of a boot due to the battery pack at the rear. What we were left with was the A6 which was more or less almost a Superb as they are technically from the same family.

So we thought, why spend more than double for a car like the Audi A6 which has similar technology as the 2016 Skoda Superb which is available for 35 lakhs on road?

[V.Narayan]

Test drove the Lexus ES300H today for about 2 hours. Drove the test car over rough roads and smooth, traffic and highway, fast and slow, front seat and rear bench etc. Decision taken. ES300H booked, deposit given. Toyota-Lexus were good enough to risk ordering the car I asked for without taking a deposit (though I did give them a cheque as a security) on the expectation I will eventually buy and not desert them for the Mercedes camp.

For the relaxed driver who wants to get from A to B and who isn't interested in vroom-vroom and values back seat comfort, silence, leg space and cushy ride this is a worthwhile car if you are okay with the price. Ex-showroom Delhi is Rs 55L and change; Rs 59.5L for Gurgaon. The price on road with the high end insurance, for full coverage, will be about Rs 70L in Gurgaon. The car comes in a week but I will be taking delivery in the first weekend of April'17 when I'm back in town. Will write a thread on the car a little after that. Interestingly the person at Toyota who has been trying to sell me the car last 4 months is the single point of contact for all after sales service support going forward. He has to deliver on what he has promised! Sounds like a wise policy.

Admittedly the Camry is 85% of the car for 50% of the cost. The new Mercedes E-class has slightly better interiors - not materials or finish but the way the whole ambience comes together. Two points went against the LWB Mercedes - the after sales service and the fact it is not hybrid. Other wise the car is a killer. Any one being driven in it will feel like a propah sahib. If the LWB were available in a hybrid version and if Mercedes' after sales was even 20% better (in attitudes) I would have gone for it. Turbanator - it was a very close finish. The car is as good as you said it will be.

Meantime I am selling my Skoda Superb to Toyota to make parking space in the building for the new car.

My sincere thanks to all contributors to this thread for their well meant and valuable advice that helped me through this decision process - GTO, Turbanator, iliketurtles, VellVector, dark.knight, Axe77, khoj, ach1lles, rageshgr,//M, Spinnerr, McLaren Rulez, androdev, Abhi Automobile, dipen, zulfihansi, ackyash and Epic . My thanks to Lamborghini for the suggestion that I try Lexus.

Picture of the Skoda Superb now bowing out after almost 7 years and just under 120,000 kms. My wife and I have never bought a car this expensive. More than me she still follows thrifty habits developed in earlier humbler times. Then we said we are well past half time in the hockey game of life. Why die rich.

[R2D2]

Congrats V Narayan. Really happy to read you finalised the car upgrade.

Hope to see a great review once the car is home. Given my experience with Toyota plus the added aura & halo of the Lexus marque I don't think you will ever regret buying this machine.