[graaja]

Originally Posted by hema4saran

With the kind of dilemma you are in, I would suggest you to retain your Jetta for atleast 1 more year and wait for the new 3 series...

Originally Posted by AirWind

The Jetta should take sub 10 seconds to the ton (well, KMPH not MPH) - or is it your butt dyno feeling after the Diesel Gate S/w fix? Well, 1st thing you should do is get a proper remap until you find a replacement - the remap will make the right replacement that much more hard to find... LOL

If I don't find a suitable car within the next couple of months, then it will be Jetta remap indeed!

Originally Posted by lamborghini

However, Graaja - if you're settled on the 530i, I'd take the recommendations of keeping the Jetta a little longer and maybe tuning it.
No - there will be no changes in the GC (you'll have to learn how to tackle speed breakers properly, especially with a full load - I had the same issue on the E60 5 series) but hopefully BMW will re-jig their variant line up (as they do ever so often) and give a better kitted 530i.

As an other option since you're increasing your budget - how about the old S5 / S6? I think a couple of Audi dealers do have them in stock (I think Audi Mumbai has a demo car done some 500-600kms). The models won't be factory fresh / latest model - but in terms of performance, it should keep you very happy!
Suggesting this just because you are a happy VW owner.
Similarly BHPian Sahil's RS5 is up for sale, and that too would be an incredible upgrade!

I have dropped the 530i from the list for now. Looking into the GT now for its very practical boot space, rear legroom, features like adaptive headlights, Heads up display etc., with a little sacrifice in the handling department. Also, looking at the M-Sport variant that has the staggered wheel setup that should help a little with cornering. Will update once I come to some decision on this.

Regarding old S5/S6 or the RS5, I do not want to go for a used car. That is why I mainly dropped the 530D

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by graaja

Looking into the GT now for its very practical boot space, rear legroom, features like adaptive headlights, Heads up display etc., with a little sacrifice in the handling department. Also, looking at the M-Sport variant that has the staggered wheel setup that should help a little with cornering. Will update once I come to some decision on this.

Well, the GT is a more practical choice... Which one - 330i or 320d? To bad they don't offer a 330d! That frameless doors and the M kit will be an eye candy ;-)

[graaja]

Originally Posted by AirWind

Well, the GT is a more practical choice... Which one - 330i or 320d? To bad they don't offer a 330d! That frameless doors and the M kit will be an eye candy ;-)

Yes. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced the GT is a practical choice. Planning for the 330i M Sport version which comes fully loaded with everything.

[Rammee]

@graaja - did you check out X3? I realize we are comparing Sedans to SUV's, but I am exactly in the same predicament as you.
A Jetta, which is completing 5 years and has been a hoot to drive, and have this itch to change. I could not test drive any 330i's as dealer in Chennai does not have a petrol test drive car.
Drove a GT 320d and then a X3, besides a bunch of Audi's, Volvo's and Merc's, and felt most comfortable with X3. But then comes the concern that a new model is just few months away and so have gone back to procrastinating

Did you manage to test drive a GT 330i?

Am very keenly following your thread and your final choice ;-)

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Rammee

@graaja - did you check out X3? I realize we are comparing Sedans to SUV's, but I am exactly in the same predicament as you.
A Jetta, which is completing 5 years and has been a hoot to drive, and have this itch to change. I could not test drive any 330i's as dealer in Chennai does not have a petrol test drive car.
Drove a GT 320d and then a X3, besides a bunch of Audi's, Volvo's and Merc's, and felt most comfortable with X3. But then comes the concern that a new model is just few months away and so have gone back to procrastinating

Did you manage to test drive a GT 330i?

Am very keenly following your thread and your final choice ;-)

Ah. What a position to be in! The number of sleepless nights I have been spending the past couple of weeks!! It is indeed very difficult to find a good upgrade to the Jetta which has a fantastic balance between comfort, power and handling.

I did not consider any SUVs or crossovers because I wanted only a petrol car. If you are open to diesels, then I think you have more options with the SUVs.

Though I could have waited for the G20 3 series sedan, as the release date is speculated to be in the late 2019, I did not want to wait that long. I really can't explain the logic behind my decision though. If the new X3 is coming any soon and if you are prepared to wait, then you should wait and check out the lates one.

I also did not get to drive a 330i. These dealers do not get petrol test drive cars. I think if you want a petrol test drive car, you need to visit either Bangalore or Mumbai.

My final choice can mostly end up to be a 330i GT M Sport, instead of the regular 330i. The only drawback with the 330i GT would be the body roll due to the higher center of gravity.

After getting inputs from other members who either own a 3GT or who have driven it, I understand that it is not too much to be a deal breaker. Whatever sacrifice the 330i GT brings to the handling department, it more than compensates in being more practical - bigger boot even with space saver, notchback opening, 40-20-40 foldable rear seat that can free up more boot space, ample leg room in the rear bench, panaromic sun roof, comfortable ride quality, higher ground clearance that will give more freedom to drive on very bad patches of roads, adaptive LED headlights, full digital instrument cluster and so on. When I consider all these practical things that my family would love, I am willing to live with the body roll. Worst case, I can always upgrade the suspension setup to improve handling, whereas, I can't bring all the practicality to the 330i.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by graaja

My final choice can mostly end up to be a 330i GT M Sport, instead of the regular 330i. The only drawback with the 330i GT would be the body roll due to the higher center of gravity.

I had a short drive of 10-12 Kms of the 3 GT on the Avinashi road. I have also driven the Jetta and Superb on the same stretch. The suspension compliance of the 3 GT was no match to the above two, it had a floating sensation. I don't know about handling since I have not driven it on winding roads. Have a long drive of the GT so that you don't regret your decision later. But am pretty sure you will regret if you get the GT.

My order of preference:

1)Used F10 530d
2)G30 530i
3)Octavia Vrs
4)330i sedan
5)Superb diesel

But if you are simply bored of the Jetta and don't have any other serious reason to change it, I feel it would be better you keep the Jetta and do some performance mods like a remap and bilstein suspension. Consider upgrading if something exceptional like a pristine M3 or the C43 comes up in the used market.

[androdev]

Why this Kolaveri Di.

Sometimes it is easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees. Can you write an enthusiastic "review and initial ownership" piece if you bought a 3GT? You will be in tears when you go through the photos and try to pick few good ones to be used in the thread. There is a reason why everyone has gone quiet on this thread, it is out of politeness.

I don't mean 3GT is a bad car. I am just wondering why would you walk past their drop dead gorgeous 530i and pick this mini van.

Perhaps it's better to hold on to Jetta till you find a car that is a great looker and also practical.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by androdev

Why this Kolaveri Di.

Sometimes it is easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees. Can you write an enthusiastic "review and initial ownership" piece if you bought a 3GT? You will be in tears when you go through the photos and try to pick few good ones to be used in the thread. There is a reason why everyone has gone quiet on this thread, it is out of politeness.

I don't mean 3GT is a bad car. I am just wondering why would you walk past their drop dead gorgeous 530i and pick this mini van.

Perhaps it's better to hold on to Jetta till you find a car that is a great looker and also practical.

Actually I'd beg to differ! I think given his requirements, the 330i GT is a very balanced choice.

It may not be a looker, but that's fine because he is going to be driving it everyday.

With the 530i, he may just end up staring at it more often only to get into another car because he won't be able to take it on long trips as he pointed out earlier in the thread, due to it's dismal ground clearance!

His heart will have fun every time the tail slides out, and his head will be at peace whenever he goes on a long trip with his family!

[graaja]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Actually I'd beg to differ! I think given his requirements, the 330i GT is a very balanced choice.
...
His heart will have fun every time the tail slides out, and his head will be at peace whenever he goes on a long trip with his family!

Thanks a lot, lamborghini. What you described is exactly my situation!

Originally Posted by androdev

Why this Kolaveri Di.

On a lighter note, so that I dont have to bear the Kolaveri of home ministry

Originally Posted by androdev

Sometimes it is easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees. Can you write an enthusiastic "review and initial ownership" piece if you bought a 3GT? You will be in tears when you go through the photos and try to pick few good ones to be used in the thread. There is a reason why everyone has gone quiet on this thread, it is out of politeness...

I greatly appreciate your concern on my choosing the GT. I think I owe you (and everyone who has given their inputs) an explanation.

"Sometimes it is easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees."

Your above quote exactly defines my situation, but in the opposite way. When I started the car search, I had just one thought in mind - upgrade to a complete performance car and hence only the 330i and the VRS. But as I started researching on the cars and took test drives, I started realizing that I was losing sight of the big picture - the overall happiness of the family. When the family's comfort came into picture, now I needed a car that can also strike a balance between driving pleasure and practicality. In short, I wanted to have the cake and eat it too.

That is when I started considering seriously the suggestions of going for a used 530D or 530i. These 5 series cars offer performance and at the same time are more practical for the family as well in terms of ride quality, space etc. And the 330i GT also got added to the list, as it sits between the 3 series and the 5 series in every aspect.

In the end, it came to the choice between 330i, 330iGT and 530i. One bitter truth I found in this car selection process is that even if you are paying 50+ big ones, every car comes with a compromise. There is no car that checks all the boxes. Each car had its positives and negatives.

530i
Positives: Very comfortable interiors, adaptive suspensions that make tha car feel a lot smaller than its size, large boot and good rear leg room

Negatives: Two major negatives. 530i does not come in the M Sport version and misses on many features like adaptive LED headlights (this is a very important feature that matters to me) and Heads up display. The deal breaker however is the ground clearance. During the test drive that I did with a 520D, the car was scraping many regular speed breakers, and I was told that I have to get used to driving such a low slung long wheel base car. Also, the car scraped the ramp to my parking space.

330i GT M Sport
Positives: Very comfortable interiors, large boot with 40-20-40 rear seat folding, ample leg room, comes loaded with all features - Heads up display, adaptive LED headlights, digital instrument cluster, M Sport body kit, staggered tire setup and very compliant ride quality

Negatives: The controversial look and poor handling due to the raised ground clearance

330i M Sport Sedan
Positives: The best in terms of handling, fastest of the three, M sport body kit, staggered wheels (which will make even better handling), decently loaded with features like Heads up display

Negatives: Non existent boot space, harsher ride that may not go well with the family on those very long road trips.

I had to weigh all these and had to choose within my constraints. 530i had to go simply for the reason that I cannot have it scraping every time I park it in my portico. 330i had to go because it was not practical. So, that leaves only the 330i GT.

A very good friend and TBHP member Dr.AD, who is a genius in mathematical analysis and AI systems, described my choice:

"Mathematically speaking, what you found is a "pareto-optimal solution". For a small relative loss in one objective function (handling - drop from 99 percentile score to say 95 percentile score for handling compared to all cars in India), you get so much more in practicality and gadgets (that score up from say 50 percentile to about 75 percentile, again compared to all cars available in India)."

Having said that, in this pareto-optimal solution, I still have the freedom to further improve the optimization by upgrading the suspensions to the sport version

I did exactly that in my Polo GT with the KW coilovers. Now the Polo GT that had lots of body roll handles like a charm!

[graaja]

In order to arrive at the conclusion, I have used an Excel spreadsheet template that I had created long time back when I chose the Jetta.

This uses a two step process.

In the first step, I have compared the 330i MSport, 330i GT MSport and the 530i under various categories. For each category, I list out all the features of the three cars and give a rating on a scale of 1 to 10.

Comparing engine power, and FE


Comparing ride, handling and GC


Comparing space


Comparing safety


Comparing features, luxury and comfort


The second step is providing a weight for each category based on the importance and then calculating the final score. I have a weighted rating system where I provide weights for each of the categories depending on my priorities. The sum of the weight should be 100. I have given following weights for this car selection.

Engine, power and FE - 15
Ride and GC -15
Handling - 15
Space - 10
Safety - 20
Features, luxury and comfort - 15
Cost of ownership - 10

Below is the score I got for the 330i, 330iGT and the 530i for my priorities, where 330iGT scores the highest.


Had I given highest priority to handling, I may have ended up with the below score where 330i would have been the clear winner.


PS: All the above is based on my own opinion. The scoring and weights will definitely vary from person to person based on their perspective and priorities.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by graaja

In order to arrive at the conclusion, I have used an Excel spreadsheet template that I had created long time back when I chose the Jetta.

I can understand if a Jetta owner picks a 3 Series over the 5 Series. I can also understand why the Jetta owner would pick the 5 over the 3. But I can't fathom why the Jetta owner, who is not averse to mild mods on his cars and one who does not care about badge/ prestige value, who wants to upgrade his car only for more performance and fun behind the wheel, would pick a 3GT over the other cars in the name of practicality and features like adaptive headlights, powered tail gate and larger sunroof!!

If the 3 GT is the front runner, I think you need to bring the VRS back into contention. More fun, more practical and you will save a lot of money in the process. BTW have you TD'ed the VRS?

[greenhorn]

Personally, I am a big fan of the sporty crossovers. Yes the GT might not be the ultimate driving machine for a purist, but in india, the extra travel and bigger tyres give you a lot more usable performance. Rather than buying a hot sedan that will give you its best only on a track or a perfect highway, and give you heart attacks and visions of cracked alloys and damaged RFT's, why is buying something with enough poke that lets you drive WRC style over your average indian road, but at the same time, is not a lumbering behemoth like your average full size SUV.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Rather than buying a hot sedan that will give you its best only on a track or a perfect highway, and give you heart attacks and visions of cracked alloys and damaged RFT's, why is buying something with enough poke that lets you drive WRC style over your average indian road, but at the same time, is not a lumbering behemoth like your average full size SUV.

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

I can understand if a Jetta owner picks a 3 Series over the 5 Series. I can also understand why the Jetta owner would pick the 5 over the 3. But I can't fathom why the Jetta owner, who is not averse to mild mods on his cars and one who does not care about badge/ prestige value, who wants to upgrade his car only for more performance and fun behind the wheel, would pick a 3GT over the other cars in the name of practicality and features like adaptive headlights, powered tail gate and larger sunroof!!

If the 3 GT is the front runner, I think you need to bring the VRS back into contention. More fun, more practical and you will save a lot of money in the process. BTW have you TD'ed the VRS?

I am definitely not choosing the 3GT for the sunroof. It just happens to be an additional bonus. The main reason is the overall practicality. If the 5 series did not have the scraping issue in my parking and on the speed breakers, I would have just gone for that eyes closed. I liked everything in 5 except this scraping. I really cannot live the next 7 years babying the car over speed breakers (and have it still scrape). I want a practical car. That is where I found the 3GT to fall exactly between the 3 and 5. Looks aside which is highly subjective, from purely technical point of view, I find the 3GT to have everything that the 5 offers in terms of comfort and features, except the handling part where the 5 is superior with those adaptive dampes.

Like greenhorn mentioned, I want a car that can give me freedom to drive on all types of Indian roads without having to worry about underbody scraping or damaging the tires or wheels etc. In this process, I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of handling. If I had space for three cars in my garage, I would hold the Jetta for all those long distance drives with the family, get a 330i for those pure fun solo drives and keep the Polo for in city drives. Unfortunately, I don't have that option.

Regarding the VRS, though I really do not care about the badge value, I do care about the higher level of quality and feel the BMW brings to the cabin. Other than that I have absolutely nothing against the VRS. And no test drive vehicle available for the VRS.

I totally understand the compromise I am going to make in the handling department for the practicality, Will I feel unhappy on that compromise? I really don't know. Only time will tell. It is highly likely that the GT may not be as bad a handler after all, especially with those 255 section tires that come with the M Sport variant. If it indeed handles really bad for it to be a deal breaker, I will either fix it or live with it.

I am going to take my wife and take another long TD today.

[asit.kulkarni93]

It is very difficult to upgrade from a D1/D2 segment sedan in India as most of the offerings are more or less similar to the entry level(3/c vs octy/Jetta) or mid sized(5/A6 vs superb/Passat) luxury sedans. I Although the equation changes with 6-cylinder engines.

In all the chaos the 3GT fits in perfectly. It gives you space and peace of mind when dealing with no/bad roads in india. Yes the body roll will be noticeable but eventually you will learn to live with it or you always have an option of upgrading the dampers. This is a far better compromise than a scared mind regarding underbody damages.

Go ahead with the GT 30i, you won't regret buying it. You get the power, gearbox, rwd layout and practicality. Best of everything. Happy shopping!

[d3mon]

Hi graaja,

Have been following your predicament silently, but with great interest for a while.

An excel based approach only makes sense for the bean counters. If you were truly to make your decisions through the excel sheet alone, you'd get your Jetta remapped and be done with it. I've taken the liberty of taking your parameters of consideration and coming up with the scores for a remapped Jetta. A comparison with your present steed is absolutely essential while buying a new car to fulfil your desires for a proper 'upgrade', especially when you're spending this much money.

If none of these scores are significantly higher than your Jetta, or if you're upgrading for reasons not in this spreadsheet, then the upgrade doesn't make sense.

I think this spreadsheet shows the remapped Jetta to be a clear winner among the 330i, 3GT & the 530i
Please add the Jetta to your original spreadsheet to evaluate where it stands as per your thoughts.

PS: Yes, the Jetta scores 15 out of 10 in the TCO row, but it really needs that score for a proper comparison given how much money you'd save over the next few years.