[Brishti]

Ola everyone, I have been driving my diesel Fluence for close to 6 years now and it has started to show its age and Renault lack of proper service and care are a part of the problem.

Although I had started to look for a replacement quite a while back I could not find a good alternative in the SUV/Crossover segment. On paper the Hyundai Tuscon seemed quite good but in reality the space inside is in line with Creta/Compass/etc. On top of that the 170mm GC with a soft suspension does not help and it bottoms out at larger speed bumps. So I dropped the idea of buying a SUV all together and started looking into other categories.

Enter the RS, I must confess I love turbo diesels they offer economy and other aspects of ownership which titillate me but the RS was something else I saw it drive by and overtake two "car carriers" trucks in a few seconds. It sounded like a expensive German and given Skoda roots I was instantly interested in a RS.

I tried for a few weeks to get my hands on a new RS but since I could not get my hands on it and my recent test drive with it was not exactly great "Lower GC let to it bottoming out on uneven roads and I think its AoA is even less than the normal model also the stock rubber needs an upgrade asap" so I let the RS be and now I am now looking at these four cars:

1. Skoda Style TSI AT
2. Skoda L&K TSI
3. BMW 330i M Sport GT
4. Audi S5

For the Skoda's I want your opinion on the gearbox since its the infamous DQ200 "DQ250 for the RS?" unit and although the problems that I used to hear about earlier have died down but still I am not sure. The car would be driven in Himachal extensively so there should be less of a temperature issue but yes it would take trips to Delhi and around once in a month. Secondly the maintenance and other costs after the 4 year pack is over with how high do they go for an AT unit and since I plan to keep the car for 12-15 years to justify the costs I would like to have an idea of the cost of maintenance. Thirdly what is covered in this 4 year promise?


For the BMW GT I found it a awesome performer and has a lot of space but still I could not make out if the space inside was more than the Octavia. The maintenance costs for this is also a question mark but the dealer told me the petrol has cheaper maintenance than the diesel. Overall the boot space is a little smaller than the Octavia and again it also has soft suspension like the Tuscon.


The Audi S5 was suggested by the Skoda dealer whom I was bugging for the Octavia RS and since they own a Audi showroom as well they suggested the S5. I have yet to take a test drive but I saw it in the flesh and what I saw did not appeal a lot to me its lower on cabin space to the Octavia and GT. There is also a problem with the thirsty engine which was highlighted by the dealer himself.


The financial breakup is a tedious one for each of these cars I will have to take a loan and for the S5 its working out to be a bit of a problem but the BMW and the Skoda's are well in the loan criteria I have from the bank. Also have to consider how do they age because I plan on keeping it for 12-15 years min I have seen old Octavia's not looking that great after 8-9 years but that might be because of bad service provided for the 1st gen Octavia's.

So there you have it my whole dasata, car gurus kindly guide me into the light.

[sxenimit]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Ola everyone, I have been driving my diesel Fluence for close to 6 years now and it has started to show its age and Renault lack of proper service and care are a part of the problem.

Although I had started to look for a replacement quite a while back I could not find a good alternative in the SUV/Crossover segment. On paper the Hyundai Tuscon seemed quite good but in reality the space inside is in line with Creta/Compass/etc. On top of that the 170mm GC with a soft suspension does not help and it bottoms out at larger speed bumps. So I dropped the idea of buying a SUV all together and started looking into other categories.

Enter the RS, I must confess I love turbo diesels they offer economy and other aspects of ownership which titillate me but the RS was something else I saw it drive by and overtake two "car carriers" trucks in a few seconds. It sounded like a expensive German and given Skoda roots I was instantly interested in a RS.

I tried for a few weeks to get my hands on a new RS but since I could not get my hands on it and my recent test drive with it was not exactly great "Lower GC let to it bottoming out on uneven roads and I think its AoA is even less than the normal model also the stock rubber needs an upgrade asap" so I let the RS be and now I am now looking at these four cars:

1. Skoda Style TSI AT
2. Skoda L&K TSI
3. BMW 330i M Sport GT
4. Audi S5

For the Skoda's I want your opinion on the gearbox since its the infamous DQ200 "DQ250 for the RS?" unit and although the problems that I used to hear about earlier have died down but still I am not sure. The car would be driven in Himachal extensively so there should be less of a temperature issue but yes it would take trips to Delhi and around once in a month. Secondly the maintenance and other costs after the 4 year pack is over with how high do they go for an AT unit and since I plan to keep the car for 12-15 years to justify the costs I would like to have an idea of the cost of maintenance. Thirdly what is covered in this 4 year promise?

DQ200 is not the best or the most reliable. It is reliable up to a certain power. DQ250 on the other hand, is extremely great, and reliable transmission to make power. DQ250 is also used in MK6 Golf R. So it can handle up to 400-450WHP easily on the transmission with tunes. As for maintenance cost in India, it is out of my league. Someone else can help you out bit more on this.

For the BMW GT I found it a awesome performer and has a lot of space but still I could not make out if the space inside was more than the Octavia. The maintenance costs for this is also a question mark but the dealer told me the petrol has cheaper maintenance than the diesel. Overall the boot space is a little smaller than the Octavia and again it also has soft suspension like the Tuscon.

First you need to decide what kind of car you want, and for what you want it. Whether you want it for performance, luxury, or cheap maintenance. You can't have all of the above. You need to choose maximum of 2 out of 3.

The Audi S5 was suggested by the Skoda dealer whom I was bugging for the Octavia RS and since they own a Audi showroom as well they suggested the S5. I have yet to take a test drive but I saw it in the flesh and what I saw did not appeal a lot to me its lower on cabin space to the Octavia and GT. There is also a problem with the thirsty engine which was highlighted by the dealer himself.


The financial breakup is a tedious one for each of these cars I will have to take a loan and for the S5 its working out to be a bit of a problem but the BMW and the Skoda's are well in the loan criteria I have from the bank. Also have to consider how do they age because I plan on keeping it for 12-15 years min I have seen old Octavia's not looking that great after 8-9 years but that might be because of bad service provided for the 1st gen Octavia's.

So there you have it my whole dasata, car gurus kindly guide me into the light.

Out of all those, S5 would be the best car in general. Now depends on what your needs are for the car. Anyone who would buy a S5, wouldn't likely think twice about the engine being thirsty. If gas is an issue, buying a luxury car shouldn't be an option regardless. As for taking loan on a S5, it is the most expensive car of the options you have given. But it is the best.

My opinion is first decide what you want in a car.

1. Performance
2. Luxury
3. Cheap Maintenance

Choose 2 out of 3. Once you do, then people can give a better advice on what car to get.

[lamborghini]

The cars and the budget you've selected are poles apart!

Since you first started looking at SUVs, and turbo-diesels, why not throw in the new BMW X3 & Volvo XC60 into your list as well? Plus for your touring, you would like something with good GC & you've also mentioned reliability and fun to drive which is where the X3 should score.

The biggest advantage of both of them being that you will be keeping the car for a long time, and these cars are the newest in their segment: therefore will remain fresher for that much longer.

Similarly, did you try out the Kodiaq? It's a full size SUV though a little down in power - but budget willing, should be a good bet. Another option is the Tiguan.

In sedans, options are a little limited. Volvo may have the S60 Cross Country, which you can get a good deal on + also pick up a polestar remap for the extra power.

[Flyer]

Your choices can't be compared easily. They are of different prices and segments. You have to have some specific priorities to pick one.

From the 3 choices, S5 will be my obvious pick if I need luxury and performance. But the cost of maintenance will be high and you will spend more on fuel.

If I don't need a luxury brand I would choose Octavia RS. Life will be easy.

Originally Posted by Brishti

For the Skoda's I want your opinion on the gearbox since its the infamous DQ200 "DQ250 for the RS?" unit and although the problems that I used to hear about earlier have died down but still I am not sure.

If you are going for Skoda, then stick with RS which have the reliable DQ250. TDI 2.0 also gets the same gearbox.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Ola everyone, I have been driving my diesel Fluence for close to 6 years now and it has started to show its age and Renault lack of proper service and care are a part of the problem.
....

First, you need to prioritise things up. Even the most experienced bhpians won't be able to help you otherwise. Narrow down the maximum loan amount you can afford practically and then look at each segment.

Again, this is where your needs come into the picture. Handling, power, reliability, all of those. Decide which style of car you want. There are several options available upwards of 30 lacs now which wasn't the case before.

In the 30-50 lakh price bracket, for touring purposes, I suggest you take the BMW X3 and Ford Endeavour into consideration. BMWs are quite reliable if the ownership reports on the forum are anything to go by.

Service costs for the big three are in the neighbourhood of 30-40k but you have to be mentally prepared to set aside good money for any part replacements especially consumables such as brake pads and the likes since part failures will be covered under warranty. An extended warranty is strongly recommended in all cases here and if it's a BMW, a BSI package. If maintenance for the big three hurts, the Endy and Kodiaq are excellent choices.

Coming to sedans, a BMW 5 series is a good place to start, especially the 520D. Pre owned examples are available for bargains. I won't recommend the 3 series due to poor legroom. The 3GT is another option here. The Octavia VRS is a good car in itself, but can't be compared to BMWs IMHO. If you have the money, get the BMW. Simple. There are several other options such as the Volvo S60 and Jags apart from the usual big three.

Do a bit more of brainstorming and come up with a particular segment. The criteria specified by you might have been enough 9 years back, when there weren't many options north of 30L but (un)fortunately it's a different story today.

Regards,
Vishy

[Brishti]

Originally Posted by sxenimit

DQ200 is not the best or the most reliable. It is reliable up to a certain power. DQ250 on the other hand, is extremely great, and reliable transmission to make power.
1. Performance
2. Luxury
3. Cheap Maintenance

Choose 2 out of 3. Once you do, then people can give a better advice on what car to get.

The TDI version does have the DQ250 but the engine is not a gem as the 1.8TSI. I had thought about it but the went against it due to increased engine noise in hilly areas "Himachal" and also instances where diesel could freeze.

I need performance but when I say that I am saying that in respect to my diesel Fluence whose performance was much below average. Luxury can be same or a bit more than Fluence and proper maintenance getting it super cheap is not a requirement but it should be VFM "e.g. 7 lac headlight assembly not VFM"

Originally Posted by lamborghini

The cars and the budget you've selected are poles apart!

Since you first started looking at SUVs, and turbo-diesels, why not throw in the new BMW X3 & Volvo XC60 into your list as well?

Similarly, did you try out the Kodiaq?

Out of the listed cars I have test driven all other than the S5 and short listed them from anything else from the market. I used the point reward method to short list these cars.

I have tried the X3 and did not much like it infact the X1 was my car of choice in comparison but the X1 is again on the smaller side. Its funny you suggested the Kodiaq since I had driven it a few days back and even wrote a small tit-bit about it. Overall Octavia is much more thrilling to drive than that and given they both have a shared platform they do have a lot of driving/ride characteristics similar to each other.

Originally Posted by Flyer

Your choices can't be compared easily. They are of different prices and segments. You have to have some specific priorities to pick one.

The TDI seems good but its engine is not the gem of an engine that the 1.8TSI has I was really floored with the performance that the engine delivers. S5 test drive will be done tomorrow and I will have more insight then for now I am again wishing to at least have an option for the Octavia RS.

Originally Posted by vishy76

First, you need to prioritise things up. Even the most experienced bhpians won't be able to help you otherwise. Narrow down the maximum loan amount you can afford practically and then look at each segment.

Again, this is where your needs come into the picture. Handling, power, reliability, all of those.

Coming to sedans, a BMW 5 series is a good place to start, especially the 520D. Pre owned examples are available for bargains. I won't recommend

All the listed needs are my needs I want all of them infact this will be my main drive everyday. BSI package is already added to the final tally for the 330i GT and the same goes for the Skoda 4year package.

Speaking of the finances the BMW is stretching the budget "SBI Loan" and for the S5 I will have to take it from Audi finance which will put a longer liability and higher interest expenditure but if its worth it I will take the plunge we will find out tomorrow how the S5 drives.

Endeavour & Fortuner new and old has always seemed unrefined inside and out to me. In the US I found Mustang to have similar levels of unrefinement but when I have to spend so much I would prefer a level higher than offered by them.

Pre owned I was not too keen but certainly shall take a look on those BMW certified ones with warranty, thanks for the suggestion.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Brishti

I need performance but when I say that I am saying that in respect to my diesel Fluence whose performance was much below average. Luxury can be same or a bit more than Fluence and proper maintenance getting it super cheap is not a requirement but it should be VFM "e.g. 7 lac headlight assembly not VFM"

I have tried the X3 and did not much like it infact the X1 was my car of choice in comparison but the X1 is again on the smaller side. Its funny you suggested the Kodiaq since I had driven it a few days back and even wrote a small tit-bit about it. Overall Octavia is much more thrilling to drive than that and given they both have a shared platform they do have a lot of driving/ride characteristics similar to each other.

Any update after the test drives?

An option for you to also consider in that case is the X5 - they have some brilliant deals going on as read on another thread, on their old 2017 stock.
The 3.0V6 will give good performance, FE will be acceptable, with BSI your maintenance is covered.

Ideally, since maintenance is important, I'd recommend picking up a simple car without too much tech like air suspension, etc. which are problematic in our conditions. The 330i GT is a brilliant option, as is the 320D GT (with the M Performance Power Kit that will make it close to a 325D GT in terms of performance).

Also, the Octavia is thrilling to drive in the 1.8TSi trim, but be a little wary of the gearbox which is a hit or miss in terms of reliability. Just for that alone I'd recommend the slower diesel sibling, or the much quicker but lowered petrol sibling (vRS) given you do travel out of town.

[Brishti]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Any update after the test drives?

Sorry for the late response was a bit busy with life and securing sources for a loan. The test drive of the S5 was mind blowing for the 10seconds I could rev it really hard. It went like a missile and I really loved the feeling but I had two problems with it:

1. Crawl to Overtake "Overtaking from truck" caused initial hesitation from the gearbox but the dealer said its a gearbox issue and they will get it repaired.

2. It does not like low gears so kept on going to 2nd and 3rd even in low speeds. I could not figured out how to keep it on 1st for a longer period of time which results in a hotter gearbox "Hilly area test drive"

At this point I am asking myself are auto's even good for hilly areas or is it a worthless idea? I was thinking of just changing gears manually but maybe if that's not the best idea should I get a manual to start with?

Thankyou for your suggestion but I don't want to go in for a diesel anymore, Rather prefer the refinement petrol's offer.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Sorry for the late response was a bit busy with life and securing sources for a loan. The test drive of the S5 was mind blowing for the 10seconds I could rev it really hard. It went like a missile and I really loved the feeling but I had two problems with it:

1. Crawl to Overtake "Overtaking from truck" caused initial hesitation from the gearbox but the dealer said its a gearbox issue and they will get it repaired.

2. It does not like low gears so kept on going to 2nd and 3rd even in low speeds. I could not figured out how to keep it on 1st for a longer period of time which results in a hotter gearbox "Hilly area test drive"

At this point I am asking myself are auto's even good for hilly areas or is it a worthless idea? I was thinking of just changing gears manually but maybe if that's not the best idea should I get a manual to start with?

Thankyou for your suggestion but I don't want to go in for a diesel anymore, Rather prefer the refinement petrol's offer.

In hilly areas, the GB can heat up. Try and keep it in sport mode. That should help it cling on to 1st while also preventing overheating. Finding a manual gearbox in this price bracket is extremely difficult. Most manufacturers have moved on to automatics.

If your driving means that you encounter even 20-30% of hilly terrain, I suggest you look away from the S5. A GB heating up is not a good thing in the longer term.

[Brishti]

The S5 is out of the picture because its proving to be too expensive "Would have to take a lean against property also HDFC wants gold security" along with issues with the GB in certain areas the S5 is not a good choice.

Given the more comfortable nature of the 3 GT people recommended the 5 series instead since the price difference is not that much but I have started to appreciate the softer nature of the 3 GT and the Octavia 1.8 TSI over their 3 series and vRS cousins due to the nature of our roads.

Have tried out the Jag XE also in the meantime and boy does it have tight space in the rear seat or what but driving dynamics is excellent. So all in all my all rounders till now are the Octavia 1.8 TSI and the BMW 330i GT if any thing else needs to be tested please do suggest.

A very informative video where vRS and 330i dish it out:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpUsJnb6V28

[Brishti]

Thankyou everyone for your input, I have bought a car from these options after my second failed attempt to get a vRS.

Review will be up soon

[Raahil_23]

Congrats! Which car did you end up getting?

[lamborghini]

I have a feeling it's a 330i GT. If so, brilliant choice! It's a very practical yet fun car!