[lamborghini]

Hey Guys,

Starting a new thread on this as there aren't many threads on this segment, compared to the <50L, and >75L.
Pretty surprising because the E/5 segment is one that is generally a crowd puller for most of the luxury brands.

Anyways, we may be in the market to upgrade / replace our 2011 A6. I use the word 'may' as the A6 is still a pretty competent car and though maintenance bills are adding up, the head says it's better to stick with the A6 for a bit more, while the 'heart' itches for a replacement. This however is a topic for another day, and today we've reached a point where almost all the cars in the segment are new launches (barring the A6) and status quo should remain for a few more years.

Dad's Priorities:

1) Rear seat comfort, including ingress & egress: Car will be 85% used solely by dad, 10% with dad & mom/me, 5% with 4/5 people. Dad is 6'1" and 65 years old so ingress & egress is a big issue, mom is a lot shorter so climbing in is something she doesn't prefer. It will mostly be chauffeur driven unless it is an SUV (which I will use for outstation trips).

2) Ride Quality, NVH

3) Reliability: Just something that doesn't require frequent trips to the workshop would be nice. Ideally we would like to keep it for 6-10 years as we have with the other germans in the garage.

4) Ground Clearance to handle Mumbai roads & the odd outstation trip.

5) Size: It should be nimble enough in the city. Dad is very against buying a barge, and is the first one to park the A6 and go out in the S-Cross when going to a place with tough parking / narrow lanes.

My Priorities:

Just that it should be an upgrade of sorts over the A6 - otherwise there really isn't any point. Dad's pretty much been shuffling options in the same segment for the last 14 years - E Class, 5 series, and now the A6.
I'd ideally like this new car to be an upgrade of sorts for him given that he was a pretty active enthusiast when he was younger - in fact, he is the one who got home the Palio GTX instead of the 1.2L, similarly almost all our cars have been pretty performance and driver oriented until recently.
Heck, when I was a toddler, he used to drive around a Maruti 1000 with a FFE!
As he's become older, and traffic has become worse - he is much happier sitting in the rear seat than driving himself.

Features etc. aren't that important - the basics like sunroof, Xenons/LEDs, 3 zone climate control, leather, 8 airbags, etc. are going to be standard. A good music system is the only add on that I would like but given how rarely I will use the car - it doesn't make a big difference.

Performance too isn't a big deal breaker as it will be mostly chauffeur driven, and that too in the city.

With this in mind, we had the usual suspects from all the brands:

1) E Class: I found the rear seat under-thigh support to be lacking + ride quality wasn't great. Mercedes maintenance also happens to be the most expensive, and reliability of our C220d isn't great (small niggles + brake squeal + rattles, etc.)

2) GLE: I don't know how they manage to sell this car still! Yes, it rides well and the view out is fantastic, but thats about it. Dated interiors, ridiculous pricing, etc. were big drawbacks not to mention that mom will positively hate climbing into it.

3) Audi Q7: Didn't even bother having a look as we weren't that impressed with Audi service.

4) BMW 5 series: Low ground clearance and poor rear seat space had it out of contention for us, though the car seemed amazing!

5) BMW X3: Still to TD but looks promising

6) BMW X5: It's definitely a little dated today (but far better than the GLE). Good deals make it a tempting proposition though I need to see if mom will be comfortable

7) BMW 6GT: I need a longer TD but at first glance this car seems to solve all our worries. However, it looks horrible unless you buy the overpriced M-Sport which isn't happening.

8) JLR: XF, F Pace, Discover: nothing too exciting to be very honest, and nothing really stood out. I was tempted by the XJL if they were willing to bring it down to around 80L OTR but I don't see that happening.
In fact, the showroom was probably the most depressing in terms of customer service.

9) Volvo XC60 & V90: S90 was excluded due to poor headroom, but the V90 CC seems to be perfectly what we need as does the XC60. Dad loves Volvo as a brand, but we still have to take a TD. XC90 would have been ideal but it's that much more over budget + size!

So that's where we are: X3 v/s 6GT v/s X5 v/s V90 CC v/s XC60.

So with that, I'd like to open the floor up to your thoughts & recommendations please!

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Hey Guys,


Dad's Priorities:

1) Rear seat comfort, including ingress & egress: Car will be 85% used solely by dad, 10% with dad & mom/me, 5% with 4/5 people. Dad is 6'1" and 65 years old so ingress & egress is a big issue, mom is a lot shorter so climbing in is something she doesn't prefer. It will mostly be chauffeur driven unless it is an SUV (which I will use for outstation trips).

2) Ride Quality, NVH

3) Reliability: Just something that doesn't require frequent trips to the workshop would be nice. Ideally we would like to keep it for 6-10 years as we have with the other germans in the garage.

4) Ground Clearance to handle Mumbai roads & the odd outstation trip.

5) Size: It should be nimble enough in the city. Dad is very against buying a barge, and is the first one to park the A6 and go out in the S-Cross when going to a place with tough parking / narrow lanes.

I will say head towards the nearest Lexus and give the advance for the new ES. The first lot will be here in August itself, you won't get anything more apt to the requirements you have mentioned in my opinion.

A small but Important point though - Your Dad being Tall, the rear seat might get tricky given the coupe-like rear on the newer ES.

[V.Narayan]

My suggestion is V90 - decent height for ingress & egress and yet not as high has an SUV so would fit both parents. The new XC60 could also do but it has less legroom at the rear than the new E. You may also think of waiting for the new ES300h.

[ajmat]

I would look at the V90 closely but take the 19" wheels for a better ride and durability.

However, considering the use is within Mumbai city, the Lexus might be better suited. 6GT - I have not seen any on the road so I guess it has bombed hence poor resale and maybe good discounts.

[Sail]

Do a TD of new X3 if you / your dad not driving enthusiastically.

I am 6'2", and rear bench under thigh support is short supply for me. However front two seats are excellent. Ingress & egress height is just perfect for our seniors.

What I like about the car is suspension set up (adaptive suspension), soaks-up small bumps & potholes nicely (but not as good as 6GT).

If you are looking for Estate cars (V90 CC or Merc E- AT) do note they are pretty long cars for every day handling / parking etc.


Cheers
Sail

[Sahil]

If you are willing to go pre worshipped, you might just be able to get your fav luxury sedan- New gen 7 series. Might need to stretch your budget a bit but will be well worth it!
I think Turbanator was looking to get rid of his 730d Msport few months ago.

Also if you find a 740iL new gen it would have depreciated to fit closer to your budget.

[//M]

You might be interested in checking out the ongoing mouth-watering deals on the BMW X5 through the Mumbai / Pune dealers.

I feel the BMW 6GT is perfectly suited to your requirements, as is the Volvo V90 and XC60. However, the V90 is too big a car for daily usage in a city like Mumbai.

Take a longer test-drive of the BMW 6GT and Volvo XC60. The air suspension on both the cars might be a boon since your parents would be chauffeur-driven most of the times. I personally like the GT shape as it frees up a lot of space for rear headroom but as you said, the 6GT looks best in M-Sport spec.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

.
.
2) GLE: I don't know how they manage to sell this car still! Yes, it rides well and the view out is fantastic, but thats about it. Dated interiors, ridiculous pricing, etc. were big drawbacks not to mention that mom will positively hate climbing into it.
.
.

The GLE has now become the rich-man's Fortuner in smaller towns. Almost everyone who owned a Fortuner in the family / friend circle in my hometown Ranchi, have now upgraded to the GLE as they simply couldn't find a better alternative. The BMW X5, according to them, looks too busy. Even in rural areas around Pune, we get to see a lot of brand new GLEs these days.

[Akshay1234]

Aah, this thread is going to go on eh Lambo?

Knowing how you will want to keep the car for a while, I would suggest not to compromise in any way.

Also knowing your love for Toyotas, I would suggest you check out the new ES300h first. That should be comfortable, and reliable, but will still probably lack the finesse of the Germans in a couple of areas. The drive won't be as good either. But it'll be stress free.

Apart from that, the X5 is a good choice with the current discounts on offer and the features which have been added over the years. I definitely wouldn't discount it just because a new model is coming.

Even the 6GT, its really comfortable and feature packed. And the 30d will be great for when you are driving.

Otherwise, why not look at a slightly used S350d or a 730ld?

[Hayek]

Interesting dilemma. If I were you, I would go for the X5 from this list. It’s a car from a segment above - and should have large discounts available which would make it less than 15% costlier than an undiscounted X3. As I see it, the key benefit for the X5 is the 30d engine - which would be a great treat for your dad if he is an enthusiast. None of the other cars (except perhaps the V90) will be a real step up from the A6, and in my view, buying an estate in India is a depreciation disaster.

Of course, I bought an X3 - but it’s for me, and is my first luxury car, it a very different decision for someone who has had an E, 5 and A6.

[SID2997]

As per your requirements,X5 is the clear winner. Even though you are getting the old model at a discounted price, it still packs a punch in terms of its feature list and driving dynamics.It has just the right proportions(given your dad's aversion to barges; putting the S-class and 7 series out of contention).X5 provides just the right balance between comfort and enthusiastic driving.It makes for a good weekend runabout and doesn't run out of grunt while on the highway.In my opinion, its design language is also more expressive of its sporty intentions as compared to the Volvos

[pganapathy]

All the options in this price range, unless you go for a used car, will offer you roughly the same as you get now. The only difference would be the 4x4's which would have better ground clearance and higher seating, but be difficult for your mom. There wouldn't be any "upgrade".

If you are happy with your current A6, why do you want to change it. The only option to get an upgrade will be a used A8/7 series type vehicle.

If it is a change for the sake of a change, just find the car that offers the best back seat comfort for your dad, given that he will be riding in the car 80 percent of the time and don't really worry about which brand it is unless the service threatens to be a nightmare

[Turbanator]

I won't even consider an X5 irrespective of the discounts if someone needs to sit at the rear for long. The low bench and sort of bouncy suspension do not help. If someone wants to drive then it's a different matter. It might be actually worth to wait for the new X5 as it will have Air Suspension.

If OP is ok with the pre-owned route, the older generation 7 from 2015 with low mileage can be had for as low as 50 Lac and the rear seat is absolute bliss. The newer 7 might be expensive, another option can be to check S-class from 2015/16 which may be cheaper than the newer 7. But then not everyone is ok with the old stuff especially when it comes to buying something for Parents so that will be my last option to consider.

If the ES does not appeal or does not look an upgrade from the A6, I will suggest another ride on the E class maybe with 6 Cylinder Diesel that has air suspension, the extra amount can be offset from the pleasure on the weekend spirited drives

The best way will be to shortlist the cars and then have 1-2 hours test drive in the conditions he will be travelling daily. I will do the same if I have to pick something just for the rear seat.

[androdev]

Better late than never. How much more and for how long can you flog this E/5/A6 segment?

[RJK]

Lambo - I'm in a similar dilemma as you & have seriously thought of the Lexus NX200. Did you give it a look? V.Narayan's Lexus thread has given me serious inspiration to consider Lexus, though I considered the same as him, ES300. However, I've seen that the backseat has limited underthigh support & if your dad is 6ft plus, I don't think he'll be pleased.

Also, I travel fairly regularly in Careem's here in Dubai, all Lexus ES300/350's & while the car is superb, under thigh is a little inadequate (I'm 5'9").

The reason I'm saying NX is because its a soft roader & parents aging will need a car with easier ingress/egress, plus hybrid - so silent as hell & won't suck the money out of wallet! My dad is in similar age bracket & I've seen him have a hard time getting out of sedans, he absolutely loves our good old Innova.

Do give the NX a look, I'm going to be home in September for a few days & am considering booking it. If you do go, do let me know what deals are available :P

Cheers

[GTO]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Anyways, we may be in the market to upgrade / replace our 2011 A6. I use the word 'may' as the A6 is still a pretty competent car and though maintenance bills are adding up, the head says it's better to stick with the A6 for a bit more, while the 'heart' itches for a replacement.

7 years up no? I would recommend keeping the A6 for another year or two as it's already depreciated and you are using it for free now. That's what we did with the C220.

But if you still want to replace it:

1. New E-Class. While you've already owned an E, 5 & A6, the long wheelbase is new and will make for a proper luxurious upgrade. This is what Ajmat had to say:

Originally Posted by ajmat

Most reviews focus on driving and a little about the rear. Having seen what the rear had to offer, I needed to spend quality time here. That's 6 ft me, swinging my legs around the back. The experience on the backseat was sublime. After a 40 km drive in thick Goan traffic, I handed the car over to another journalist and sat in the rear. His style of driving consisted of rapid acceleration, tailgating and late braking. Normally, I don't sleep very well in a car in such circumstances. Any jerk, sudden acceleration or any sudden change in tempo wakes me up. And so, I nestled in, adjusted the seat, my head touched the soft pillow...and I was fast asleep within minutes. The photographer who was with me in the back fell asleep as well. I felt totally insulated from the driving and only woke up an hour later - much refreshed - for our lunch halt. It was that good

2. Pre-worshipped S-Class or 7-Series. You can get some really beautiful cars for 70 lakhs.

3. New Lexus ES.

Originally Posted by androdev

Better late than never. How much more and for how long can you flog this E/5/A6 segment?

Awesome post man!