[vivekmohan83]

Hey, so long term lurker of the forum here and the forum helped me pick my first car, the 2010 Civic 1.8 VAT.

Been pretty happy with the Civic, she is still fun to drive (65k kms done) and while GC issues are a pain in Mumbai speed breakers + mileage is 7kmpl, it has been a great car on all other counts (drive, rear seat space). Of course maintenance costs have shot up in the past year since I have had to replace all 4 wheels, 4 brake pads, tensioner belt, starter motor, engine mount nuts, battery (phew).

So anyway been thinking of a new car for a while now. I drive almost 99% in the city which is basically school runs (6 and 3 year old kids) and mall runs. Did a few Alibaug, Lonavala trips Haven't really done long rides after the kids given all the logistics involved.

I have always felt that my next car would be an SUV (higher driving position + higher GC + ability to keep kids/parents in the back seat happy).

Where I have screwed up though, is thanks to work travel, I have left the decision to purchase almost till last day of December and thanks to my wife I am also considering the Merc E class (220d) now!

I have test driven the Q5 tech, X3 (20d), E220d, GLE.

Q5 - Easy to drive, had all the features, didn't necessarily feel luxury + I am not a fan of the sloping stance (makes the back seat feel smaller). Also general noise on after sales service in Mumbai (my lease provider didn't recommend them unless I fell in love with the car)

GLE - First I rejected the GLC (felt like a compact SUV than a real SUV with tiny rear seats). GLE is massive, feels like a tank, but the interiors were very disappointing and the dash looks ancient. Wife rejected it on account of it feeling less luxurious than the office Crysta.

X3 - New and shiny, rear felt better than the Q5 and also given its a new model its got all the bits and bobs. Drives well but honestly I didn't see the big difference between X3 and Q5 riding through the sea link.

X5 - post discounts its not too far away from X3 price but very usnure given 2019 launch is just a few months away.

The wild card in the mix is the E220d. - Wife entered one at the Merc showroom and fell in love. That rear seat is epic luxury and felt like an Emirates first class seat. I was pushed to test drive it and I was surprised by how peppy the ride was in the sports mode. This is a very very good car but my questions are on how well it will navigate the poorer roads/ speed bumps given its a LWB. Also has anyone driven one in the monsoon? I would be very scared to drive this car through a puddle.

So anyway for now my choices are X3 (can't decide between 330i and 220d) and E220d (I didnt mind the 200 petrol either but was advised strongly to pick a diesel for FE + resale value).

F-Pace - Love the stunning look but uniform feedback from dealers + lease guy that resale value will be poor + not a great car to drive/rear seat so haven't even bothered a visit.

Please help me pick since I have exactly 3 days to close and wrangle out a discount. Also I will be using a company lease to buy this one, seems like a good deal - 36 month lease where the lease provider handles insurance + maintenance for this period and at the end of the lease I can return the car or buy it back at residual value. Since the lease rental is tax deductible + I dont have to put any upfront money to buy the car, the math seems to work

2 lacs monthly rental for 36 months = 72 lacs.
Tax exemption = 30%*72 = 21.5 lacs
Insurance + maintenance saving = 10 lacs
Investing the 60 lacs in a debt mutual fund for 3 years = 15 lacs (post tax)

So my net spend is 72 - 47 = 25 lacs. At the end of 3 years I can choose to buy the car for residual value (~20-25 lacs) or give it back to them and exchange for a new car.

So anyway need you guys to help, I seem to have left this to the last moment

[Aurum]

Originally Posted by vivekmohan83

I have always felt that my next car would be an SUV (higher driving position + higher GC + ability to keep kids/parents in the back seat happy).

I have test driven the Q5 tech, X3 (20d), E220d, GLE.

So anyway for now my choices are X3 (can't decide between 330i and 220d) and E220d (I didnt mind the 200 petrol either but was advised strongly to pick a diesel for FE + resale value).

F-Pace - Love the stunning look but uniform feedback from dealers + lease guy that resale value will be poor + not a great car to drive/rear seat so haven't even bothered a visit.

So anyway need you guys to help, I seem to have left this to the last moment

I hope you have had the chance to go through my thread. I went through a lot of the same decision making, except the E-Class. I think the only X3 30i option available to you at this point is white, but you might have better luck than me.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/luxur...i-q5-tfsi.html (BMW X3 vs Skoda Kodiaq EDIT: Booked Audi Q5 TFSI!)


Sedan vs SUV - There is no doubt about which would be more comfortable and luxurious in the city - the sedan. As a family, we wanted to experience the SUV life once - sit high (kids), have more boot space, less worry about going to Shilim/ Bhandardhara roads, so we eliminated the sedan option. Otherwise, you will easily be more pampered in the sedan.

Petrol vs diesel - Drive both to be sure what you like. I really enjoyed the power and response of he petrol. I usually keep my cars for 7 years, so resale value wasnt much of a driver for me. The Petrol Q5 was cheaper by at least 2 lakhs on Road, so the breakeven point in my case was around 3 years before the FE started impacting me, but the enjoyment is throughout the life of the vehicle.

Audi vs BMW service - I honestly have no clue how to assess this beyond a point. All the Audi owners I have spoken to have had no issues, but then I read about some experiences here. Reliability scores in the UK score Audi higher than BMW, but Skoda scores one of the highest. I think its just luck of the draw. In any case, Audi's reputation doesnt seem to be in the gutter like Skoda's was. I know a lot of happy Skoda owners.

Q5 vs X30 - The difference is bigger in our heads than in real life. These are both really good cars. After the first few days, you'll forget what the big deal was. Honestly, my heart said X3 30i, but all practical considerations said Q5. Now, a few days after I've put up the money, I am actually happy that we made this decision. I would have regretted buying the 20d or waiting for the 30i.

[vivekmohan83]

Originally Posted by Aurum

I hope you have had the chance to go through my thread. I went through a lot of the same decision making, except the E-Class. I think the only X3 30i option available to you at this point is white, but you might have better luck than me.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/luxur...i-q5-tfsi.html (BMW X3 vs Skoda Kodiaq EDIT: Booked Audi Q5 TFSI!)


Sedan vs SUV - There is no doubt about which would be more comfortable and luxurious in the city - the sedan. As a family, we wanted to experience the SUV life once - sit high (kids), have more boot space, less worry about going to Shilim/ Bhandardhara roads, so we eliminated the sedan option. Otherwise, you will easily be more pampered in the sedan.

Petrol vs diesel - Drive both to be sure what you like. I really enjoyed the power and response of he petrol. I usually keep my cars for 7 years, so resale value wasnt much of a driver for me. The Petrol Q5 was cheaper by at least 2 lakhs on Road, so the breakeven point in my case was around 3 years before the FE started impacting me, but the enjoyment is throughout the life of the vehicle.

Audi vs BMW service - I honestly have no clue how to assess this beyond a point. All the Audi owners I have spoken to have had no issues, but then I read about some experiences here. Reliability scores in the UK score Audi higher than BMW, but Skoda scores one of the highest. I think its just luck of the draw. In any case, Audi's reputation doesnt seem to be in the gutter like Skoda's was. I know a lot of happy Skoda owners.

Q5 vs X30 - The difference is bigger in our heads than in real life. These are both really good cars. After the first few days, you'll forget what the big deal was. Honestly, my heart said X3 30i, but all practical considerations said Q5. Now, a few days after I've put up the money, I am actually happy that we made this decision. I would have regretted buying the 20d or waiting for the 30i.

Thanks Aurum. I did go through your thread in fair detail, though frankly the Audi showed up out of nowhere and won the prize!

Sedan vs SUV - I am 35 so think I am too early to be a back seat saheb, but wife clearly has no issues solving only for luxury so the gap. Also Half of Bombay roads are worse than anything Shillim can throw at you, so feel a SUV can navigate better and I would be scared less. + Monsoons are a genuine concern for me, saw atleast 2 stranded BMW sedans in the last years big rainy day. We do have a couple of those days every year and I would hate to be the guy who seized a Merc engine in some pothole.

Petrol v diesel - I dont care since price per liter is barely 10 bucks off, but I have been advised by dealers that petrols have poor resale value. Not sure how true that is. I actually bought a Civic AT in 201 when diesel was half the price of petrol and mileage was 7-8 kmpl so clearly not a factor I seem to care about for some reason

Service - Just a random factor since under the lease, all expenses are borne by the leasing company anyway.

X3 30i v Q5 - I am less sensitive to price (the leasing decision really frees up one of these things since the payback is so spread out), guess I will wait for the Audi guy's come back.

Which BMW showrooms did you talk to. I am talking to the one in Worli. Haven't discussed colors yet, but I dont mind waiting a few months since there is no tearing hurry to get the delivery of the car (I travel half the time in an UberX WagonR anyway)

[vivekmohan83]

Originally Posted by Aurum

I hope you have had the chance to go through my thread. I went through a lot of the same decision making, except the E-Class. I think the only X3 30i option available to you at this point is white, but you might have better luck than me.

I have been told that the phytonic blue option is available on luxury line 20d. Did you have a choice between 20d and 30i? Lease guys assume a lower resale value (hence higher lease rental) for petrol cars..

[Aurum]

Originally Posted by vivekmohan83

Thanks Aurum. I did go through your thread in fair detail, though frankly the Audi showed up out of nowhere and won the prize!

Which BMW showrooms did you talk to. I am talking to the one in Worli. Haven't discussed colors yet, but I dont mind waiting a few months since there is no tearing hurry to get the delivery of the car (I travel half the time in an UberX WagonR anyway)

That came out of the blue for me as well. It was a mix of the X3 30i not being available, and the Q5 petrol not having gotten a fair chance.

I spoke to pretty much all BMW showrooms in Western India and Jaipur.

The only reason to take a call right now is because of deals (which too will likely last into January, maybe Feb depending on stocks). A few lakhs here or there doesn't appear to be a very critical factor in your decision making. In which case, you should take your time evaluating rather than hurrying up.

[Hayek]

I think you should stick to the SUV option if in Bombay - the E220d is a great car if you are driven but has two disadvantages - low ground clearance and a complete lack of boot space given the spare tire in the boot.

The new X3 is great - I bought a diesel one from the previous generation but would have picked the petrol if it had been available. However, for a lease option (presume yours is a FMV lease rather than a fixed residual value lease), the diesel becomes much more economical given current estimates of resale value. Further, the risk of a fall in diesel resale values due any future bans is borne by the lessor. So if I were you, I would go for the X3 20d or X5 30d. Push hard for discounts - I was shocked by how much we got (more than I would have even thought of asking for had I been negotiating on my own)

[vivekmohan83]

Thanks Hayek, I am getting my parents and kids to test drive both cars as well to get some votes in but I am strongly inclined towards the X3 20d. Currently being given a 4 lac discount on the luxury line edition which makes its 53.5 ex show room and ~65 OTR.

I should maybe push for more.

[DPetrolHead]

4 lakhs is a decent discount but not enough @vivekmohan83. I guess you should fight for more.
Also how much does the X5 cost you after discounts? True it will get a new iteration soon but the current version, I believe, is still a looker! If the difference isn't much, maybe give the X5 a shot? You will get a car from the next segment in a similar price bracket and even buyback option will cost you more or less the same. If you are a good negotiator, you might get the X5 at a price really close to the X3

Cheers!

[Akshay1234]

The E class is great, but not if you are driving yourself. While its nice for an occasional drive, I cannot imagine driving it myself every day (And we have an E350d in the extended family, its awesome!). For Mumbai roads, if I had to choose, it would be an suv. The bad roads become much easier to navigate, and you don't have to worry too much about rain. Also with the huge jams everywhere its just nice to be sitting a bit higher. My pick is the X3, I saw the new one and it looks 2 generations newer than the one I have. Which engine though, that's on you.

p.s - If you close by Monday, you will probably get some great discounts, which will then only be available in March again.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by DPetrolHead

4 lakhs is a decent discount but not enough If you are a good negotiator, you might get the X5 at a price really close to the X3

Correct and we should have a facelift version of the X3 very soon, they won't able to sell this with the other new stuff that should come by mid of next year. I checked the new X5 and going by past trend, most of it is going to come to X3. In 6-9 month time, X3 will look very dated. Either buy the outgoing X5 or wait for the update on the X3 or some meaningful Discounts on the X3.

[vivekmohan83]

Thanks for all the messages guys. Right now stuck in a battle with the women of my house who are in love with the Eclass opulence and think the X3 is not real luxury... also test driving the F pace and land rovers now just to make sure I am looking at all options solving for luxury + SUV.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Correct and we should have a facelift version of the X3 very soon, they won't able to sell this with the other new stuff that should come by mid of next year. I checked the new X5 and going by past trend, most of it is going to come to X3. In 6-9 month time, X3 will look very dated. Either buy the outgoing X5 or wait for the update on the X3 or some meaningful Discounts on the X3.

I am getting 16-17 lac discounts on the X5 and fairly sure I can get it down further, but is a model that is getting phased out in May. So there will be a further drop in value in the coming months that is not great, plus the interiors are pretty dated so...

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vivekmohan83

I am getting 16-17 lac discounts on the X5 and fairly sure I can get it down further, but is a model that is getting phased out in May. So there will be a further drop in value in the coming months that is not great, plus the interiors are pretty dated so...

Correct on the outdated but having seen Newer X5 and as an owner of the older, I can say, you won't be overly disappointed. The leather on the newer one is nicer and has all over, even on doors, plusher than 7 series if I may say and comes with Air suspension, massaging seats beside the newer instruments including a massive Headup Display of over 4 Inches

But, it's going to cost more, my estimate will be 85 Lac Ex-showroom and there will be No discounts for a while. Even here in Canada, they are selling old ones as MY 2018 with about 20 % rebates on the MSRP.

BTW, how do you find interiors on the X5 dated? Did you check something in beige? I will suggest you try some different exterior and interior combination, Mocha looks nice. Or if they have any M Sports in stocks that will be the one to go for. I will pick an X5 over X3 any day just because of that 6 cylinder engine. Even if you are driving 99 % local.

This is how new X5 is going to look like, perhaps you can save up for the newer one

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4519647

[vivekmohan83]

Yeah i actually popped up to the showroom and saw the other X5 editions. Barring the electronic gadgetry of the new X3, the interiors are still awesome.

Also while I was there I managed to test drive the 6GT, a very impressive ride and wife actually thought it was better than the 220d in the rear seat. The M sport variant with its HUD and all swish gadgetry was really nice. Guess people will have a POV on the slightly crossover shape of the car.

I am though Wondering if that maybe the best way to compromise their luxury needs with my need for a SUV like ride.

The 3GT and the X5 virtually cost the same now at 60l ex show room. So interesting quandary...

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vivekmohan83

The 3GT and the X5 virtually cost the same now at 60l ex show room. So interesting quandary...

3 GT or the 6 Series? If you go-ahead with X5, just check that you get the one with staggered wheels, I believe there are some from older production which has same wheels in the front and rear. There are some small other minor differences as well. Honestly, an X5 at 60 Lac should be a no-brainer but if you can hold to your purchase, there are more coming in next year - actually 1 every month for the whole Year if this is to be believed.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...n-india-410929

[vivekmohan83]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

3 GT or the 6 Series? If you go-ahead with X5, just check that you get the one with staggered wheels, I believe there are some from older production which has same wheels in the front and rear. There are some small other minor differences as well. Honestly, an X5 at 60 Lac should be a no-brainer but if you can hold to your purchase, there are more coming in next year - actually 1 every month for the whole Year if this is to be believed.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...n-india-410929

I mean 6GT. Those 12 cars look awesome but I don’t think I will really be able to afford/be allowed to buy any of them