[kanishka88]

TL; DR

I am looking for a pre-owned BMW sedan in the UK. Which 1 will you get if this is going to be your last petrol powered car to be kept for 10+ years (life permitting):

a) G20 M340i - INR 35 - 40 Lakhs
b) G20 330i - INR 28 - 30 Lakhs
c) G30 / 2017 onwards BMW 540i - INR 26 - 30 lakhs

Background

I have been an avid TBHP follower and have my fair share of cars in the last 10 years or so. I started with a humble Ritz and then directly migrated to a 2016 Audi S3 while working in Dubai.

Audi S3 was a pure love affair. It had an understated look, a classy timeless design and the power to put a 5L mustang to shame on a red light. In my 2 years and 35k kms of ownership, I had numerous memories with the car.





Right around 2018, life happened and i moved back to India. I bought an Ecosport AT Titanium+ as my daily driver. Moving to India was a personal decision that didn't sit well with my wife's and mine career goals. We also realized that of my 18 active hours a day, I will not spend 2 hours in traffic. Long story short, we moved to Europe via our respective companies by the end of 2019. While i sold the Audi before leaving Dubai, ES went to my dad who got an upgrade from his i10 Automatic.

Last year i bought a Mini cooper countryman S All 4 from a director who was relocating to the US. I bought it for 12k Euros and for its money it was completely value for money. Was of the perfect size, had a large panoramic sun roof, cruise control and a decent engine. The only flip side was that it was a manual and in an year's time I sold it for the same amount I bought it for.





Present Day: As we settle in our jobs and location, I am on the lookout again. I have learnt my lesson with Audi's extreme depreciation and Mini's no depreciation and will buy a pre-owner car only.

Requirement: This is my last petrol car, assuming things move as planned. I would want to keep it for as long as I can and should have some modern features like Apple Car Play, Adaptive cruise control and a Sun Roof. It should also be a modern car right now (latest generation) so that I can live with it for as long as possible. Coming from my S3 experience, I want to own an under rated family car which is not noisy to keep family unhappy, yet is peppy enough to bring on that smile.

My Driving style: I think it is important to share my driving style. I am definitely not a hooligan on the roads. I never used launch control on my S3, nor did I cross speeds not permitted on a stretch (well I did once and I paid heavily for that). I want to know that my car is fast, do some red light quick launches but never do auto-bahn speeds, even on auto-bahn. For me the highway sweet spot is 130kmph and i prefer using cruise control / adaptive cruise control on speed limited roads as I don't want to be constantly checking my speed and a speed camera. I will always drive at the upper limit of speed limit but I will never cross it, even in the scenarios when i know there is no camera for some distance. As you can realize, far away from drifting, trek days etc. HOWEVER, knowing that my car has the more power on a red light, can give me 5 seconds of audible happiness in a tunnel and has rock solid handling on the curves is very important.

Cars considered

M340: This is what HEART wants. I exchanged my S3 with a colleague's previous gen 340i in Dubai for a day. Instantly I had this realization that I am going to own B58 some day. In the current avatar, it is no more a 340i but has been nicely jazzed up by the M folks. I love that feel of extra 2 cylinders that no turbo charged 2lt can provide. The only downside being that since this is a newer model the used car market doesnt have many options below 35Lakhs in London, and can easily touch 40Lakhs. Mind you the new one starts at 50Lakhs. (I am taking 1 pound = 100 rs for an easy conversion)





330i: This is what brain wants. Essentially same car, for 5-10 lakhs lower price. A very very sensible purchase. Fuel efficient and lower on taxes too. Sometimes the brain even fades away to 330e but that is where heart steps in. Another benefit would be 2 less cylinders to maintain in the long run which would yield more savings and better buying power when we get our 1st EV in next 3-4 years.

540i: This is where brain and heart negotiate and settle down on. G30 5 series came a bit earlier so they have depreciated a bit faster and i can get a latest generation less miles on Odo 5 series with B58 for the same price as 330i. Flip side? Too long in my opinion. May be a good thing in the long run but I think 3 series in its current form has perfect dimensions. Also, I am in love with the looks of 3 series but 5 series is not bad either.

This was a long post - but open to recommendations.

[HKap]

I have the exact same conundrum with the added temptation of the Lexus IS500. Having said that, I think you should get the M340i. If you're anything like me and if you get anything else you're always going to say "I wish I had got the m340. 4-5L wouldn't have mattered much in the grander scheme of things". This is probably our last chance to get an inline 6 (or a V8 in case of the IS500). Go for it.


The 5 series is a luxury car and it drives like a limo. Wait for it to go electric and get the next gen.

[androdev]

Interesting dilemma. Why don't you consider a slightly older M? You can easily overlook apple carplay type of stuff in favour of a nice engine + M flavour. I would find it hard to give up on "M".

[kanishka88]

Originally Posted by HKap

I have the exact same conundrum with the added temptation of the Lexus IS500. Having said that, I think you should get the M340i. If you're anything like me and if you get anything else you're always going to say "I wish I had got the m340. 4-5L wouldn't have mattered much in the grander scheme of things". This is probably our last chance to get an inline 6 (or a V8 in case of the IS500). Go for it.


The 5 series is a luxury car and it drives like a limo. Wait for it to go electric and get the next gen.

I will check out the lexus too. I always thought Lexus to have boring interiors but will definitely check now. Yes, the m340 is right now ringing all the right bells

Originally Posted by androdev

Interesting dilemma. Why don't you consider a slightly older M? You can easily overlook apple carplay type of stuff in favour of a nice engine + M flavour. I would find it hard to give up on "M".

What i understand from online reviews is that the m340i is 'very' close to previous generation M3. The other issue is while I knew i had pampered my car when i sold the S3, people generally (atleast those around me) abused their sport saloons to an extent that I would stay away. An older M3 wouldn't have BMW warranty, would have a bit more noise for daily usage and finding a clean one won't be easy.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by kanishka88

I will check out the lexus too. I always thought Lexus to have boring interiors but will definitely check now. Yes, the m340 is right now ringing all the right bells



What i understand from online reviews is that the m340i is 'very' close to previous generation M3. The other issue is while I knew i had pampered my car when i sold the S3, people generally (atleast those around me) abused their sport saloons to an extent that I would stay away. An older M3 wouldn't have BMW warranty, would have a bit more noise for daily usage and finding a clean one won't be easy.

I meant to say prefer M-ness to convenience+connectivity features. Whatever your budget+risk appetite can accommodate. I say this because you already had S3 and Mini. Regular 5/3 are more suitable for first time buyers.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by kanishka88

M340: This is what HEART wants.

If you are spending big bucks on a luxury car, it's always best to get what you REALLY want. There's no point going 85% of the way and stopping short of 100%. Else you will always regret the decision. It's like going to a 5-star hotel, but not having dessert to save money.

Splurge right now, then keep the car for a longer time. Couple of lakhs doesn't make a difference over a 10-year ownership period and the smiles you'll get will more than offset the additional cost. Please do read this article of mine (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer)) as well.

I second Androdev on the pre-worshipped M3, and maybe an M5 too. The used car markets of UK, USA etc. offer delicious choices. I'd definitely get one of these over a newer M340i. While the M340i is superb and I enjoyed hooning it, the M3 & M5 are at a different level.

[AMG Power]

You’ve already answered your question.

Originally Posted by kanishka88

1. do some red light quick launches

2. petrol powered car to be kept for 10+
years

3. M340: This is what HEART wants.

Considering these are your key requirements and the M340i meets them, selecting something else could lead to regret so the M340i would make for the best decision. It would be better to fork out the extra money or wait till pre owned values drop.

The only drawback of the M340i (from a performance perspective) will be a bit of turbo lag. It’s peak torque is generated at a highish (for current day standards) 1800 rpm. The 330i in comparison will have next to zero lag.

[kiku007]

Short answer is to pick the one that your heart wants, which is the M340i.

My two cents worth of advice is,

• Annual insurance registration renewal costs: Have you factored in the annual insurance and registration renewal costs in the U.K for the cars you have chosen? I'm not sure about the U.K but the power output, number of cylinders, the fact that it's a sports car with high risk of crash/theft impact the pricing in Australia.
• Driver license - Years of driving experience calculation: Do they calculate your years of driving experience from 2019 or do they include the past overseas driving experience as well? This impacts insurance pricing.
• ICE car bans in the metros and emissions taxes in the next ten years: It might be worth while to have a check on this since you plan to keep the car for ten years. IMHO your ICE sports sedan may become a weekend toy over a period of time and you may need another car to move around the city. Just factor in the budget for that if needed be.

Thanks for shopping for a sports sedan btw. All the best

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by kanishka88

540i: This is where brain and heart negotiate and settle down on.

Based on my own experiences, this will be my pick. Don't get frightened by the length or width of a 5 series. It hides the dimensions very quickly. Ask the dealership to give you both for extended drives or else just rent both and make a decision.

[shree_shell]

The United Kingdom is blessed with a lot of great cars, even more than the USA in some cases. Like others have mentioned, you should broaden your horizon.

I can understand the hesitancy though. Getting a pre-owned M car out of warranty may be a recipe for financial ruin. However, if you pick your battles wisely, know what you are getting into, and if it is going to be a weekend car - I don't think there's much harm in owning a delicious naturally aspirated inline-6 M.

The best part of owning an old M is -

1. Old ///M will always appreciate
2. You get to choose from a pool of truly visceral cars, and Sheer Driving Pleasure with immense character
3. The problems are well documented
4. They are modern enough to be driven on freeways with decent safety and tech

Possible Options:

Early 2000 E46 M3 - arguably BMW's greatest engine. Look for ones with sorted rear subframe
95-02 Z3M-coupe aka Bread-Van and 06-08 Z4M-coupe - the same S54 from E46 and a rear to die for, in a lighter car!
E92 M3 - Needs no introduction, BMW's last NA V8 - S63 revving gloriously over 8000 rpm

Both the S54 and S63 have the infamous rod-bearing failure issue that is generally dealt with some clairvoyance when changing the oil and sending it off for some oil analysis. S54 has the VANOS problem, thanks to BMW's cheap tactics of using plastic components in the engine. That's resolved now with some reliable aftermarket kits.

S60/61 V10 M5 should be avoided at all costs and is something I wouldn't recommend to even my worst enemies. You'd be lucky if that thing goes home without breaking down.

And then there are the Forced induction M cars. I don't know much about that breed. Cannot say much. Tread wisely while dealing with that kind.

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by kanishka88

TL; DR
c) G30 / 2017 onwards BMW 540i - INR 26 - 30 lakhs

This would be my pick in your case. You are looking for a long term car and you are an occasional fun driver with normal highway speeds. I think in the long run, you might outgrow 3 series and would want a bigger car (may be kids growing or more kids). So it is better to spend it now for the right and forget about it. Cabinwise 5 series feels a bit more premium, due to the space and the sound insulation is better than 3er.

Once you are behind the wheels of a 540i, it doesn't feel as big at all. It is just as nimble a car as it's 3 series sibling. I compared the dimensions side by side for:

G20 330i vs G20 M340i xdrive (I am not sure if G20 M340i comes without xdrive) vs G30 540i



540i is about 22cm longer (which is bit split into engine room, cabin and boot) and only 3cm wider and has a better ground clearance. 540i has a wider track width, which too is important to get good driving dynamics. So a 5 series is vehicle dynamically and proportionally bigger than 3 series, but not made big only in length or width to make it roomy. Unless you have parking or driving issue with a slightly bigger car, 540i would be a good choice among the three.

[kanishka88]

Originally Posted by GTO

Splurge right now, then keep the car for a longer time.

I second Androdev on the pre-worshipped M3, and maybe an M5 too. The used car markets of UK, USA etc. offer delicious choices. I'd definitely get one of these over a newer M340i. While the M340i is superb and I enjoyed hooning it, the M3 & M5 are at a different level.

Thank you GTO, this was super helpful. While not trying to digress, what’s your take on BMW / Merc in terms of longevity. I was under the assumption that Mercs are very reliable but that seems to be changing with some of the threads on TBhp lately.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

It would be better to fork out the extra money or wait till pre owned values drop.

The only drawback of the M340i (from a performance perspective) will be a bit of turbo lag. It’s peak torque is generated at a highish (for current day standards) 1800 rpm. The 330i in comparison will have next to zero lag.

Thanks AMG Power. Yes, the used car market is currently at a high in the UK, thanks to empty roads and people buying more cars. My worry was 2 extra cylinders = extra moving parts = lower reliability. Isn’t that correct?

[quote=kiku007;5024899]Short answer is to pick the one that your heart wants, which is the M340i.

Thanks Kiku. Actually cars costing more than 40k pounds command a bit higher tax in the first 3 years. All these cars are going to be that ways and I have made peace with it. I have an EU driving license and I am aware that my NCB in India and in UAE can count towards lower insurance premium. Unless there is a drastic difference by model, I am assuming this shouldn’t be a challenge.

London has concentric zones with Zone 1 being the center most, and Zone 2 after it and so forth. Currently Zone 1 commands congestion charges from all cars (except BEVs and Plug ins) and ULEZ (ultra low emission zone) charges which are applicable to pre-E6 models. That means diesels earlier than 2017 and petrols earlier than 2007. While these zones will expand, I am not worried the recent petrol models are going to covered anytime soon. This is also a reason I am staying away from diesels.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Based on my own experiences, this will be my pick. Don't get frightened by the length or width of a 5 series. It hides the dimensions very quickly. Ask the dealership to give you both for extended drives or else just rent both and make a decision.

I am saving close to 10k on 540i just because the refresh came earlier for the 5 series than the 3 series. I am waiting for dealerships to open up for quick TD. 540i is a wild card here.

Originally Posted by shree_shell

The best part of owning an old M is -

1. Old ///M will always appreciate
2. You get to choose from a pool of truly visceral cars, and Sheer Driving Pleasure with immense character
3. The problems are well documented
4. They are modern enough to be driven on freeways with decent safety and tech

Possible Options:

Early 2000 E46 M3 - arguably BMW's greatest engine. Look for ones with sorted rear subframe
95-02 Z3M-coupe aka Bread-Van and 06-08 Z4M-coupe - the same S54 from E46 and a rear to die for, in a lighter car!
E92 M3 - Needs no introduction, BMW's last NA V8 - S63 revving gloriously over 8000 rpm

Both the S54 and S63 have the infamous rod-bearing failure issue that is generally dealt with some clairvoyance when changing the oil and sending it off for some oil analysis. S54 has the VANOS problem, thanks to BMW's cheap tactics of using plastic components in the engine. That's resolved now with some reliable aftermarket kits.

S60/61 V10 M5 should be avoided at all costs and is something I wouldn't recommend to even my worst enemies. You'd be lucky if that thing goes home without breaking down.

And then there are the Forced induction M cars. I don't know much about that breed. Cannot say much. Tread wisely while dealing with that kind.

Shree, thanks for the detailed one. I am now looking at M3s too. I will just have to move away from BMW’s pre-owned route (that I was limiting my search to for warranty, service package, et al) but there are some delicious listings. I may bother you with some DMs to get your opinion on few of these. Thanks!

Originally Posted by carthick1000

This would be my pick in your case. You are looking for a long term car and you are an occasional fun driver with normal highway speeds. I think in the long run, you might outgrow 3 series and would want a bigger car (may be kids growing or more kids). So it is better to spend it now for the right and forget about it. Cabinwise 5 series feels a bit more premium, due to the space and the sound insulation is better than 3er.

Once you are behind the wheels of a 540i, it doesn't feel as big at all. It is just as nimble a car as it's 3 series sibling. I compared the dimensions side by side for:

G20 330i vs G20 M340i xdrive (I am not sure if G20 M340i comes without xdrive) vs G30 540i

Attachment 2135087

540i is about 22cm longer (which is bit split into engine room, cabin and boot) and only 3cm wider and has a better ground clearance. 540i has a wider track width, which too is important to get good driving dynamics. So a 5 series is vehicle dynamically and proportionally bigger than 3 series, but not made big only in length or width to make it roomy. Unless you have parking or driving issue with a slightly bigger car, 540i would be a good choice among the three.

Thanks carthick. I think this warrants a TD now. m340i is only available in xdrive but 540i is RWD. The comparison chart is giving a different perspective now! Thanks for the details!

[zehhatter]

If I was in your shoes, I would look into a pre-owned M4 Convertible or a M440i. A hard top convertible is a great car for weekend drives without the stress that is associated with a soft top. Apple carplay can be added into older models by just installing a module inside the infotainment system, a 5 mins search in the BMW forums can guide you in the right direction and it's an easy DIY job. My advice would be to go and rent the cars you have shortlisted and drive it for a day or two before taking a call, and if the plan is to retain a car for a longer period, the X5 40i is also a fantastic car which you should take a look at if you are open to SUVs. My sister traded her 330i for a X5 and its a much superior car in every aspect.