[npal]

Let's get the prelims out of the way. There's no 'need' for a car.. this is due to YOLO, mid-life crisis, itchy fingers, fairly stable job, home EMIs done, some combination thereof.

We're a family of 3. Already have 3 cars, with no plans to sell any. I'll continue to use the S-Cross 1.6 as the daily driver, my wife will continue to use EcoSport AT as the daily driver. There's a 17 year old WagonR cooling its heels and being retained for sentimental reasons. The new car is intended only for weekend/early morning drives and vacation drives.


Last December we did a 15-day driving vacation from Bangalore to Mangalore and Goa. This was in the S-Cross, and it's boot wasn't quite sufficient for all the cooking utensils and vacation buys, so ended up with stuff in the passenger compartment. That partly started the itch. Now with quite a few car launches done and coming up, obsessive reading of Team-BHP, and a couple of friends upgrading their cars, itch is getting stronger.

Completely subscribe to buying pre-owned 2-3 year old vehicles. Both S-Cross and EcoSport were bought this way.

Requirements

• 5-star safety
• Good deal of power and torque, better than the S-Cross 1.6. Something like 350Nm would be nice.
• Automatic. Preferably diesel.
• At least a 450-litre boot. Bigger the better. We tend to carry the house with us.
• Seat comfort, if possible with lumbar support. S-Cross is perfect even without lumbar.
• Good ground clearance, say more than 180mm unladen. No firm requirements, but intent is to take it to unseen places.
• Android Auto for maps, or at least built-in navigation. Not a fan of iOS.
• A really good music system.
• Panoramic sunroof. Bangalore still has enough mild days, and the car will see early morning drives.
• Some essentials like front and rear parking sensors and camera, spare wheel, etc. I wouldn't have thought to mention these, but they can't be taken for granted. Looking at you, X3/X1.
• Reliability
• That elusive quality of value.. Middle-class roots!

BTW, space at the back is not a big concern. We’re all on the smaller side, less than 5’6” and not heavy-built either.

Driving dynamics, steering, suspension

I haven't written anything about driving dynamics or steering or suspension in the requirements - simply because I don't have enough knowledge on these. All of us find the supposedly hard suspension of EcoSport fairly comfortable. My previous 2010 i20 felt ok but floaty, and both S-Cross and EcoSport are completely fine. So I guess we prefer a firmer suspension. S-Cross' steering feels a bit loose compared to EcoSport's, and I'd prefer something closer to the EcoSport.. this is not a deal-breaker though.

Driving style

Before buying the S-Cross, I'd have said sedate but not slow. Now that's impossible. I won't get into drag races or be a hooligan, but holding steady at good speeds on straights, or some quick acceleration out of a corner will be nice. I don’t have any interest in high-revving the engine. What I like is the sense of power in reserve and effortless acceleration. S-Cross is great at this.

May appreciate something like the 3-series if I actually drove it, but at this point I simply don't know.

Vehicle type

I've always liked station-wagons. Subaru Forester of the early 2000s in the US was a favorite. So was the Ford Fusion here, and the Fiat Palio Adventure. I actually liked the first-gen X1 better than the current one for its station-wagon shape. That's also one reason I liked the S-Cross.

Ok with crossovers, ok with sedans. Least preference is a sedan, simply for GC. If a sedan, it has to be something special.

Vehicles considered


These are all over the place. My first choice was the Volvo V90 Cross Country. Ticked all the boxes for me - the only true station-wagon, safe, diesel automatic, comfortable cruiser, extensive feature list. Quite like the idea of Adaptive Cruise Control. However, these are unicorns. Saw one at a dealer recently, but it was badly maintained and already run 60k kms. Also, I suspect a good one will cost a deal more than what I can afford - they were 82L on-road in Bangalore when new.



Next obvious choices were the XC60 and XC40. No current-gen XC60s at all in Bangalore, and even if they were, cost is likely to be an issue. Older gen doesn't seem appealing, and the ones I see advertised are all high mileage. There are a couple of XC40s, but the Lava Red trim is going the way of flimsy wool. The other issue with Volvos is warranty - standard warranty is only 2 years, and neither have taken the trouble of additional warranty.



BMWs were next. I'd test driven the X1 petrol, and didn't like the interiors much. Acceleration was good, but not extraordinary compared to the S-Cross. No Android Auto. No cruise control. Not even a proper MID in the instrument console. Didn't feel like I'm getting enough for the money. Not sure if driving the diesel will change my perspective.

Looked at an X3 as well. Same engine, slightly more space at the back. But 20L more for All-wheel drive and adaptive suspension and a few smaller goodies like TPMS? The deal-breaker was the boot.. seemed smaller than the X1's. On paper, it is 550 litres in X3 vs 505 for the X1, but that's before the space-saver goes in. Am I missing something here?

I really like the looks of the X1, btw. It was my daughter's favourite too. But after the test drive, both of us were kind of disappointed. Maybe another test drive on the diesel?

Next up on my list were the Kodiaq and Tiguan. There's obvious concern about the DSG, but I like the Tiguan's looks and black interiors. Test drove a 2.5 year old one, and was again disappointed. Acceleration wasn't great compared to the S-Cross in normal mode, and sport mode made the engine sound strained. Didn't try the music system, but the other features, space and boot were good. If not for DSG concerns, this would be a strong contender. Recent Allspace DSG issues cropping up on threads here give me pause. Haven't test-driven the Kodiaq yet, but doubt it’d be much different.




BTW, Audis, Jags and Mercs aren't on the list at all. Audi's grills are going the way of Hyundai's, and feedback on dealerships isn't good. Jaguars look great, but reliability concerns keep me away. Mercs may be ok, but don't really like their usual beige interiors. Or their looks in general.

Of the crossovers, what's left is the Tucson. May have to wait for the new gen one next year. Compass is out due to boot space, had looked at it a few years back.

Among sedans, first choice would be BMW 3GT – for the space and slightly higher GC. Older gen, but can live with that. Yet to actually see one though. I sat in the regular 3, but didn’t find the lumbar support good. Also, boot space wasn’t enough.



And then there’s Octavia/Superb, again with DSG concerns. Older gen Octavia came with DQ200, so don’t prefer it. The 2020 Superb IIRC came with the DQ380 gearbox, so this may be in contention. Space, equipment, seat comfort were all good in the brief time I checked it out.

(All images above are from Team-BHP reviews. Love the 3GT in this colour, and the tan interiors! Have gone through @graaja's ownership review and that is a big contributor to the car making it to the shortlist.)

So, to sum up, the realistic choices currently are:

1. Volvo XC40, with no warranty
2. BMW X1, with some equipment compromises but with warranty
3. BMW 3GT, with lesser GC but most equipment in place; lumbar support to be experienced though. Factory warranty is not available on most vehicles I see online.
4. Skoda Superb, possibly a new one.
5. Hyundai Tucson – current gen or next gen

And these courses of action are open:

• Wait for a few months and watch for good, in-warranty XC40s.
• Streeeeetch and buy a new XC40. Petrol, not as much torque as even the S-Cross, but should be good otherwise.
• Buy one of the other listed cars now, with potential compromises. Regularly see 2019/2020 X1s, a few older 3GTs.
• Wait for upcoming launches – new Tucson, XUV7OO. I guess these will be roughly in budget, so new one instead of pre-owned. Initial niggles is a worry.
• Drop the plan altogether and wait until ready to spend 50L. This seems the diciest. By the time I’m ready to spend 50L, either I’ll be too old or I may only find equivalent/worse choices in the market.

As you can see, I’m thoroughly confused at this point. Recommendations please! And thank you in advance.

BTW, attaching an excel I used for evaluation, including some optional features I’m interested in. I’ve also captured the on-road price in Bangalore for these vehicles over the last 3 years - that may be of help to other members. There are also notes on launch dates etc. in case that’s of interest. Most of the information is from threads on Team-BHP.

[ATTACH=2021-CarSelectionCriteria.xlsx]2178525[/ATTACH]

[GTO]

Originally Posted by npal

Let's get the prelims out of the way. There's no 'need' for a car.. this is due to YOLO, mid-life crisis, itchy fingers, fairly stable job, home EMIs done, some combination thereof. We're a family of 3. Already have 3 cars, with no plans to sell any.

Excellent, so in short, a discretionary purchase for fun. I like that. You must have fun in life .

Vehicles considered These are all over the place

Always the case in the pre-worshipped market and that's the beauty of it.

The BMW 3GT is an acquired taste and since you so clearly love it, that should be your top choice. Very practical, workhorse diesel or fast petrol, one of the best gearboxes in the world, excellent boot + cabin space, comfortable. Best part is BMW's reliability which is much superior to all other luxury brands (sole exception = Lexus). Fun fact = I have yet to meet an unhappy 3GT owner, all of them rave about their cars!

Other options that punch way above their weight = pre-owned Kodiaq 2.0 TDI (a spectacular all-rounder, remap it to 180 BHP as stock tune is strictly adequate), a pre-owned Endeavour 3.2L or a pre-owned current-gen Toyota Camry (trust me, it's a Lexus in disguise).

Test-drive all and pick the one that pulls the strings to your heart. Happy shopping!

[Dr.AD]

Originally Posted by npal

Let's get the prelims out of the way. There's no 'need' for a car.. this is due to YOLO, mid-life crisis, itchy fingers, fairly stable job, home EMIs done, some combination thereof.

Wow! I was in almost exactly the same situation three years ago. I did not need a car, but had a bit of mid-life crisis moment where I had to buy the car that I loved for ages. But in my case, there was a specific car model that I was lusting for.

And my budget was exactly that - Rs. 35L, and I was also looking for a pre-owned. My heart was always set on a BMW 3-series, since that is the quintessential driver's sedan that I dream of for ages. So with that, I started searching specifically for 3-series sedans and found myself a lovey Red 320d in top trim, and incidentally I paid exactly that - Rs. 35L (the car was just 1 year old with full warranty and BSI, and remember that Bangalore prices are always a bit higher, especially for almost new used cars). Three years later, I could not have been happier. I love the car and already have had many great drives and tons of memories with the car. Buying that car was one of the best decisions in my life.

Thus I can totally relate to your situation.

Originally Posted by GTO

The BMW 3GT is an acquired taste and since you so clearly love it, that should be your top choice. Very practical, workhorse diesel or fast petrol, one of the best gearboxes in the world, excellent boot + cabin space, comfortable. Best part is BMW's reliability which is much superior to all other luxury brands (sole exception = Lexus). Fun fact = I have yet to meet an unhappy 3GT owner, all of them rave about their cars!

I agree with GTO. Looks like a BMW 3GT is perfect for you. Luckily, I see plenty of 3GTs in the used car market in Bangalore, and it should be possible to find a good one in Rs. 35L.

In general BMWs are the most reliable of the luxury brands, which is especially important when one is looking for a used car.

As another option, I would suggest looking for Audi Q3 too. If you find a good Audi Q3 Quattro in your budget, that would be lovely too. It is a beautiful machine. But with a used Audi, you take a gamble on reliability and maintenance cost. However, since you are financially stable, it is not a big deal. I would go ahead and take that risk if I were you and if I find a good Audi Q3.

Further, I would not even rule out 3-series sedans. They are lot easier to find in the used car market compared to 3GT, have great engines (in either petrol/diesel versions), are very reliable by any standards, and above all, just beautiful machines to drive. Check out BHPian megazoid's recent travelogue where he picked a lovely 330i. That car would be my dream car for a used car purchase in the price range we are talking of.

[Axe77]

1. BMW 3GT
I’m glad I’m not the first to recommend it (dont want to sound biased) but in my view too, your top option should be the 3GT in diesel (can be reliably remapped too and the efficiency is just insane). The petrol 3 GT will be an equally good option but you cited diesel as a preference. Trust me this car has gone with me to some RIDICULOUS places and the ground clearance has NEVER disappointed. It’s been a hoot to own and predictably and reliable to maintain for most part although I would recommend enhancing warranty to the max (6 years I think) if that’s possible when you buy used. You should easily get good examples that are less than 2-3 years in that price budget. Graaja’s thread is the definite gold standard for all things 3GT but you can refer to my relatively sketchy overview as well for the basics if you want any additional info.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ip-review.html

2. New 2022 Tucson:
If waiting is an option I’m hoping the all new Tucson should be a compelling option as well but I’m taking some leap of faith that it will at least come with the present Diesel engine if not something better. Should come in that ballpark price point too.

3. Used 3.2 Endeavour
It’s a “different” kind of fun to the above options, definitely a far 3rd to the fun a 3GT will provide. Unless you’re going on some really treacherous terrain, the 3 GT will be more fun in every way. If you think you might capitalise by buying an Endy and taking it mild off-roading as part of your travels then it becomes a more attractive choice. Bonus is that they are pretty reliable and predicable to own for most part.

4. Used Tiguan / Kodiaq:
I’d put this 4th purely on account of the reliability factor of VAG. But this again will leave you some notable spare change from your 35 lakh budget and will be a delightful car to drive. Great boot space, decent driving pleasure and by going used you can pick the diesel variants too, which are no longer available.

Happy shopping and keep us posted.

Cheers

[AirWind]

Ah, what a nice position to be in... I'd suggest you look at something special which can be a 3L from a reliable brand like BMW, here are some examples:

530D - https://www.olx.in/item/bmw-5-series...iid-1631895937

or a more practical X3 30d like this one - https://www.olx.in/item/bmw-x3-xdriv...iid-1632175067

Happy hunting

Originally Posted by npal

Let's get the prelims out of the way. There's no 'need' for a car.. this is due to YOLO, mid-life crisis, itchy fingers, fairly stable job, home EMIs done, some combination thereof.

We're a family of 3. Already have 3 cars, with no plans to sell any. I'll continue to use the S-Cross 1.6 as the daily driver, my wife will continue to use EcoSport AT as the daily driver. There's a 17 year old WagonR cooling its heels and being retained for sentimental reasons. The new car is intended only for weekend/early morning drives and vacation drives.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by AirWind

530D

Sexy car, deadly engine but doesn't meet the OP's requirement due to a smaller boot (with the spare tyre on the floor) and GC. Although I've taken my car to all the corners of MH & Goa without a fuss.

or a more practical X3 30d like this one

Great find. @ OP: Check this car out and get a 6-cylinder while you still can. Will blow your mind like you wouldn't believe.

[npal]

Originally Posted by GTO

Great find. @ OP: Check this car out and get a 6-cylinder while you still can. Will blow your mind like you wouldn't believe.

Sent a message to the seller now. I'd seen the ad earlier too, but was hesitant to go for a 6-cyl engine with no background in cars. GTO's cost of ownership of his 530d (something like 6L in 6 years) scared me too. But I guess there's no harm looking into this.

Originally Posted by GTO

The BMW 3GT is an acquired taste and since you so clearly love it, that should be your top choice.

Other options that punch way above their weight = pre-owned Kodiaq 2.0 TDI (a spectacular all-rounder, remap it to 180 BHP as stock tune is strictly adequate), a pre-owned Endeavour 3.2L or a pre-owned current-gen Toyota Camry (trust me, it's a Lexus in disguise).

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

I agree with GTO. Looks like a BMW 3GT is perfect for you. Luckily, I see plenty of 3GTs in the used car market in Bangalore, and it should be possible to find a good one in Rs. 35L.

Originally Posted by Axe77

1. BMW 3GT

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ip-review.html

2. New 2022 Tucson:

3. Used 3.2 Endeavour

4. Used Tiguan / Kodiaq:

Wow, so many recommendations for the 3GT. Will definitely test drive one, hopefully this week. Thank you GTO, Dr.AD, Axe77.

Will look at the Kodiaq too.

I'd looked at 3.2 Endeavour briefly.. found it to be too big, and with its height it'll become an issue for my mom if she were to travel in it (very occasionally). Will check it in more detail though.

Originally Posted by AirWind

530D - https://www.olx.in/item/bmw-5-series...iid-1631895937

or a more practical X3 30d like this one - https://www.olx.in/item/bmw-x3-xdriv...iid-1632175067

Great finds indeed. Not as interested in the 530d, but will talk to the seller of the X3 definitely. Hopefully it's not gone. Thank you!

[androdev]

Originally Posted by npal

(something like 6L in 6 years) scared me too.

If that scares you, then you need to do to more homework on the ownership costs. Things can get a lot worse.

Insurance, annual service, tires, etc are routine expenses which will far exceed 1L per year even for a car like Camry. If there are reliability issues or accidents, you will be looking at big bills.

Don't mean to discourage you, just be realistic with your expectations on maintenance costs. If you decide to get into luxury segment, I guess you will need 2L per year disposable funds on avg to sail through.

[TrackDay]

Like everyone else, I too favor the BMWs. They are good in terms of general reliability and service coverage is also good. Seems like the 3 GT is a fine balance of both sedan and mild crossovers. I am not familiar with the car, but it manages to grab my attention whenever I spot one. Also has a fine stance to it overall. However like BHP-ian androdev has stated, do check out if the service and follow up maintenance are fine with you.

[lamborghini]

Fellow S-Cross 1.6 owner here : it really is a tough car to upgrade from!

I wouldn't write off Audi / VW / Skoda off purely due to the DSG.
Since you're looking at the diesels, the gearboxes on them (DQ250 & DQ380) seem to be more robust than the ones on the petrols (DQ381, DQ200) - with one very notable exception : the vRS.

In fact I would rate the vRS very highly over the Superb/Octavia : looking at the sheer practicality on offer, decent reliability (though you should find a good FNG : I am sure there will be many recommendations on this forum's Directory section), and Nikhil's thread where he's taken his car across half the country - it would get my vote.
It's quick, practical, and fun straight out of the box and worth a test drive!

Next on the list would be a 3.0D from the BMW/Mercedes line up : with the W212 E350 CDI getting my vote for touring with the family. There's just something special about waking up a 6 cylinder on an early morning.
The 530D too can be considered though you will have to practice being careful on bad roads, maybe going sideways on a large speed breaker. For some reason, I found the E Class to be easier to maneuver on such conditions, with a proper boot, good seating comfort, good build quality (has the solid feel you expect from a Mercedes) and a balanced suspension - though the interiors feel more dated than the F10.
The X3-30D M-Sport is also a great option, but I wasn't too thrilled with the seating and found it lacking some thigh support.

The 3GT is a very nice option as well for our conditions : but it is more a jack of all trades, master of none in my opinion. It's beginning to show it's age, the 20D engine though a nice upgrade from the 1.6 in the S-Cross is not as thrilling as the vRS 230 / 3.0 Diesels, and the suspension tune of the others is that much better.

[JohaanTJ]

As you are interested in pre worshipped examples, i would suggest you to test drive a 2-3 year old x1 20d too if you can get your hands on one.
The car handles well for a crossover and is really punchy compared to the linearly accelerating BS6 x1 diesel. Ride is stiff on stock low profile pirellis but can be made compliant with an easy tubeless swap without compromising grip levels. It is really practical in terms of usable space and ground clearance. You won't have to be scared of the unreliable 8 speed gearbox either.
It makes much more sense than a new example as the one currently on sale does not really offer much in terms of value.

[npal]

Originally Posted by androdev

Insurance, annual service, tires, etc are routine expenses which will far exceed 1L per year even for a car like Camry. If there are reliability issues or accidents, you will be looking at big bills.

Don't mean to discourage you, just be realistic with your expectations on maintenance costs. If you decide to get into luxury segment, I guess you will need 2L per year disposable funds on avg to sail through.

Yes, prepared for the expected expenses of insurance, service, tyres. What I'd like to avoid is unexpected expenses, hence looking for an in-warranty vehicle with the option of extending warranty. If I go for a vehicle without warranty, would reduce budget accordingly.

[npal]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Fellow S-Cross 1.6 owner here : it really is a tough car to upgrade from!

I wouldn't write off Audi / VW / Skoda off purely due to the DSG.
Since you're looking at the diesels, the gearboxes on them (DQ250 & DQ380) seem to be more robust than the ones on the petrols (DQ381, DQ200) - with one very notable exception : the vRS.

In fact I would rate the vRS very highly over the Superb/Octavia : looking at the sheer practicality on offer, decent reliability (though you should find a good FNG : I am sure there will be many recommendations on this forum's Directory section), and Nikhil's thread where he's taken his car across half the country - it would get my vote.
It's quick, practical, and fun straight out of the box and worth a test drive!

Next on the list would be a 3.0D from the BMW/Mercedes line up : with the W212 E350 CDI getting my vote for touring with the family. There's just something special about waking up a 6 cylinder on an early morning.
The 530D too can be considered though you will have to practice being careful on bad roads, maybe going sideways on a large speed breaker. For some reason, I found the E Class to be easier to maneuver on such conditions, with a proper boot, good seating comfort, good build quality (has the solid feel you expect from a Mercedes) and a balanced suspension - though the interiors feel more dated than the F10.
The X3-30D M-Sport is also a great option, but I wasn't too thrilled with the seating and found it lacking some thigh support.

The 3GT is a very nice option as well for our conditions : but it is more a jack of all trades, master of none in my opinion. It's beginning to show it's age, the 20D engine though a nice upgrade from the 1.6 in the S-Cross is not as thrilling as the vRS 230 / 3.0 Diesels, and the suspension tune of the others is that much better.

I was quite interested in the Tiguan, despite Volkswagen/DSG worries. However, as I described in the original post, it wasn't impressive. Skoda seems to have better ASS in Bangalore, hoping to test drive a Kodiaq this weekend and see if that works better for me. And perhaps a mod to increase power as GTO suggested.

With 3-litre diesels, a nearly-new one would go beyond budget, and an old one would likely be unaffordable if something were to go wrong. There was a recent thread here on an X5 needing an engine, for example. I'm talking to the dealer with the X3 3.0 nevertheless, let's see what happens. I doubt thigh support will be an issue for us with our height.

I'd love a vRS - if it were available. Haven't seen one advertised in months of searching. Rarer than the V90 .

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by npal

I'd love a vRS - if it were available. Haven't seen one advertised in months of searching. Rarer than the V90 .

The Kodiaq would be similarly quick as the Tiguan. I personally found Skoda service in Mumbai to be a notch above that of VW, and it's good to see their leadership taking an active role on social media making him seem that much more approachable should something go wrong.
That being said, we have the Tiguan in the garage as well - and in terms of fun to drive, the S-Cross has the edge : manual gearbox, torque steer when turbo kicks in, etc. The Tiguan on the other hand is an impressive handler, with the ability to masks speed exceedingly well, etc.
If I were you, I'd keep the Tiguan/Kodiaq stock as a daily driver & do the remap + other mods on the S-Cross - the manual + nimble size would make it a perfect fun car! Dr. Naren's thread will give you many ideas

If you aren't in a rush, keep a look out for the vRS. Do try and take a test drive of the car in the mean time - maybe through a friend who owns one, and see if it is the right car for you.
I heard of one recently trading hands around Rs. 24-25L in KA, leaving ample room in your budget. But they go quick, so you should try and get your hands on a friend's / showroom vRS beforehand (if they have any in stock) so you have a base to compare and quickly close the deal.

[LEOMAN]

As GTO rightly commented you can also try a 3.2l endeavour . It is fairly reliable and very economical to maintain. I got mine last year just before the first lockdown at 20k kms and now the car stands at 50k kms. Endeavour will take you to places which all cars you mentioned might not want to be driven.
You can never go wrong with Fords built quality or driving dynamics.Secondly you can get extended warranty from ford till 7 years. So absolute peace of mind.