[ajmat]

Some of us more fun loving Mods completed a 1000km road trip in a Kodiaq, A4, a Compass, and a slightly maniacal 3 series. Based on this

If you enjoy cruising along, engaging with your passengers while piloting the car - the Audi A6 or the Volvo V90 is worth looking at. If you spend a lot of time in town - consider the Lexus. The Lexus will be more leisurely

Again, the Audi, I strongly suggest you test it on a highway. We took an A4 for a quick blast on a curvy highway - it bounces and it understeers.

If you want to dial it down and relax with some space - The forthcoming Kodiaq petrol.

If you enjoy press-on driving - where you focus on the road and dont give a damn about the passengers - The BMW - at least the slightly more extreme example that I drove- you would not always be chilling, you would be making corrections to the wheel due road surface variations (a lot of that in India). A bit like your sitting at home chilling and your wife is constantly chatting and nagging at you constantly!

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Axe77

My pick: BMW 3 GL petrol
.

More developments today and this may well end up with the A6. When I see the overall product, specs and features, it’s definitely a great package at a 3GL sort of price. Favourable ownership experiences from some Audi owners also helping him get some confidence in Audi as a brand.

Should have a decision by the end of this month - will update next as and when the final decision is inked, along with any details of key factors that swung it for the OP’s benefit if it helps.

[Kosfactor]

One more thing - considering the generous budget - RWD / RWD biased only if you are a keen driver. It has nothing to do with being able to do power drift, but just when you want to push the pedal down and see the speedo rise effortlessly without any drama.

[Vaahan]

Hello All,

Let me start with a heartfelt thank you to all of you! Really appreciate all the inputs, views and experiences you have shared. This has been hugely helpful. Made my wife read all comments too, just to make sure!!

I am new to the forum so am not yet adept at interacting here (yet). I wanted to respond to with comments made my each of you good Samaritans on this thread but do not want to goof up, so please excuse me for not acknowledging and answering to most of your posts individually (or in a grouped manner). I did see a poll was created (want to thank the person who did this. Was it GTO?). The poll says 22 votes to Lexus vs 13 votes to shifting to either a Audi A6 or BMW 530. So with a smile on my face, want to share that after a lot of consideration have decided to stay with the Lexus es300h, luxury variant. One of the things I forgot to mention is that my wife is an environmentalist and her overwhelming vote was for the Lexus ( and plus the looks). That did tilt the scale more towards Lexus.

I am a driving enthusiast and basis pretty much all the comments, a BMW 5 series would have made so much more sense ( or even the BMW 3 Limo or an Audi A6 as a balanced choice). But decided to compromise on the driving bit (with a slight arrogance that will try and extract whatever the car has to offer) and go for a family package that balances lifetime costs, reliability, backseat comfort, exclusivity as well as the fact that 90% of the times I will be driving in the city.

Will be very happy to share the photos once I get it home!

In the meanwhile, please see quick responses to some very specific points made in the thread, in case it is of use to others too -

Axe77 - yes the BMW dealers both, Infinity as well as Navnit said the BMW are raising prices from October 1 on all cars

CEFbeasts - Thank you for the offer. Infinity at Worli were also struggling with the test drive X3. They had the 3 series Li as well as the 5 series. My company does have a relationship with them so would have eventually got one, but I think they are waiting for the facelift or a new version coming up. Even Navneet did not have an X3 easily available.

Again, thank you all so much for all the help you extended.

[V.Narayan]

Dear @Vahaan, what a fortunate position to be in. You are the cynosure of a lot of envious eyes :-) First congrats on joining the best auto on-line club this side of the asteroid belt. Second that opening post of yours is so well written and articulate that I am sure you already have the answer, that's right for you, nestled somewhere in your heart. I was in exactly the same spot twice. In 2017 for a sedan and it came down to the E-class versus Lexus Es300h and the Lexus got my vote. In 2015 for an SUV where again in the finals it was Mercedes vs Volvo and the cheque went to Volvo {XC60}.

Ultimately this boils down to a choice between two or three great products and marques. It is not as if one is miles better than the other. But what can make one product significantly more attractive than the other are the features or characteristics that are our top most 'cannot compromise upon' ones. And what those might be only each one of us can answer for ourselves. The members here in their characteristically helpful manner have listed out all the plus and minus points of each car.

I'll share the decision points in my head as I tossed the ES300h vs E vs 5 debate in my head 4 years back. Where interiors went the E-LWB beat the Lexus. The new ES300 model may be an improvement and might have bridged that gap. But I liked the understated tone of the Lexus' interiors and the wood work. But the E had more of the feel of the corporate czar riding to his Board meeting kind of thing. Where soft ride went it was Lexus at nos 1 spot, E at nos 2 and the Series 5 at nos 6 - the gap in my mind was that wide. Because of the hard ride, limited rear seat leg room, no stepney risk of hydro locks I dropped the Series 5 from the race early on. In terms of being a man's car nothing like a BMW. I drive a 5 belonging to a very close friend occasionally and the difference vs the Lexus in the drive (a plus) and the rear seat comfort (a minus) is very obvious.

Avoid the mental debate of Camry vs Lexus. Then we should debate E vs C and 5 vs 3 etc. If it fits the pocket and the heart don't downsize.

One member mentioned that the Lexus dealer in Mumbai has not been up to scratch on service. I have no direct knowledge but thought you should know that as you are investing a large sum.

My priorities were in this order - absolutely top class after sales support, rear seat comfort & leg room, quiet cabin, least visits to the repair shop, utter reliability. Keeping these in mind Lexus got selected.

All the best for your final decision. In case you settle for the ES300h and ever need to connect with Toyota at Pune send me a private message. Always happy to assist in whatever small way I can.

And to sum it up I first learnt about Lexus' performance 25 years ago. Anecdote in this post

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post4981287

Summary below

In the 1990s and 2000s I often used the services in USA of a self-made Brazilian taxi operator. He had a fleet of the German three, Lexus and Lincolns and he used to swear by the Lexus. And this was a fleet operator whose cars each did ~150,000 miles a year. That was when I learnt about Lexus' legendary quality. It was the quality the Mercedes was famous for, for 100 years, till around the early 1990s.

[Vaahan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

All the best for your final decision. In case you settle for the ES300h and ever need to connect with Toyota at Pune send me a private message. Always happy to assist in whatever small way I can.

And to sum it up I first learnt about Lexus' performance 25 years ago. Anecdote in this post...


Summary below

Thank you so much dear Mr. Narayan for the warm welcome to the forum and the valuable suggestions and advice! I also did have the good fortune of reading your detailed posts on the Lexus and those did help firm up my decision AND with a lot of conviction! So I have a lot to thank you for.
I will reach out to you sir, in case I need to get in touch with the Pune service center!

And thanks again to all the members who very nicely laid out the pros and cons of all choices and of course the warm welcome extended by all of them!.

I have paid the booking amount and am looking forward to receiving the Lexus!!

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Vaahan

I will reach out to you sir, in case I need to get in touch with the Pune service center!

I have paid the booking amount and am looking forward to receiving the Lexus!!

Sorry I was not clear. By Toyota Pune I meant the OEM Toyota Kirloskar. Remember we need a lot of photos once the car comes. These two pages of advice need to be paid for with photos. :-)

[RJK]

Congrats on your choice. With Lexus, your ownership will remain largely uneventful (that's a good thing!).

Originally Posted by lamborghini

But with the lexus, you just enjoy driving peacefully. It's changed the way I drive and the only meter I look at is the energy consumption meter. After a day of work I don't feel annoyed when stuck in traffic, but it is actually a pretty calming experience!

This statement is absolutely 100% true. There's a different thrill in trying to make the car run on battery as much as possible, at least for me . Though one does end up driving like a grandma but hey, its Bombay, where are we going to race off to...LOL. Also the fuel economy certainly reduces the mental agony when we are stuck in traffic for hours together burning the black gold.

Cheers

[Simple_car]

Hey Vaahan!

Congratulations on the decision. I just recently purchased the exact same model and colour (with white interiors).

I somehow missed this thread completely, but nonetheless, I would like to assuage some of your concerns about the Lexus.

My use case is similar to yours, only that I do not have any kids but elderly parents who ride along with me. I primarily commute with a chauffeur in the city and go out for some night drives occasionally when I'm in the mood.

My previous cars have always been germans, and I love the machines for what they offer. Before finalising the Lexus, I test drove almost all the cars from all the brands (except BMW, who for some reason didn't bother with TD cars for 2 months!). I purposely kept out the Camry, as I knew that I will not buy the Lexus once I drive it (I'm still value-conscious by heart ). I didn't have a specific budget in mind but was firm only in my requirements:
- should be easy ingress/egress for my parents
- less headache for servicing (after spending a decade with the germans and their reps in Mumbai, I wasn't keen on wasting my time on them).
- comfort (in terms of ride quality, and also should also calm my nerves when I am facing the maddening Mumbai traffic)
- should be quiet

The Lexus will clear ~95% of the bumps in Mumbai and even surrounding areas (known for their even shoddier roads). I have driven the car through most of the typical MH roads you are likely to encounter and rest assured you should be ok. The CBU models are problematic (even after Toyota installed new stoppers), but the CKD models fare just fine.

The main clincher for the Lexus for me was the ease of ingress/egress for my elderly parents and super-elderly grandparents. The car beat all other models listed out on this thread and some of the more respected SUV's which I tested.

The new ES is brisk enough for Mumbai. You won't be complaining about the majority of the use cases (unless you are used to cars that have explosive engines).

The ES is no match to the germans as far as driving dynamics are concerned, but in its current avatar will do the job.

I don't get the f.e. numbers that other members have mentioned (its 12-13 kmpl in the city for me), but I am guessing thats due to the traffic I have to navigate and my chauffeur's driving habits.

I haven't dealt with the service till now (my car is 1500 kms young), so I cannot comment on the dealer service experience. As far as sales is concerned, I had a tough time with the dealer as I was adamant on the interior colour and told him politely that I will not go ahead with the purchase if I don't get the colour I want.

Do share the pictures of the car when you take the delivery and here's wishing you a very happy experience with the car.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[pradheepsr]

Would personally go the BMW 330Li M sport if you were considering a sedan with a decent space for rear occupants. Also it is hoot to drive and the 2 litre petrol will return decent efficiency as well if not pushed too hard. Could save you some money on the sticker price as well considering it’s a segment lower.
I would consider the A6 only if you get significant discounts but otherwise a strict “NO” as I feel that Audi as a brand is slowly moving towards electric and has lost the brand value it used to enjoy previously.
If you’re going for the Lexus, Iam unsure of its resale value and service costs as it’s currently sitting in a niche in our market even though scores high on the reliability point of view.
If you would like to consider an SUV at this point the GLC 200 would be my pick. I currently own a GLC 220d. I have owned it for over a year now and have driven over 10k kms. Iam enjoying every moment of it and it’s truly worth the money you pay for. Unsure why you aren’t happy with the interiors though? This car ticks all the right boxes and can take even bad roads in its stride without much of a hassle. My family are extremely happy with its ride comfort and space after having upgraded from a BMW X1.
The above mentioned luxury sedans would be ideal for highways and city use only if the road conditions aren’t too bad.
So go by what your heart says and take TDs of your shortlisted cars befor you come to a conclusion.
My picks
Sedan - BMW 330Li M sport
SUV - GLC 200

Hope this helps

[Pier39]

Hey man,

Why would you want to buy an older version ES300h Luxury, when Lexus is bring their new ES300h in November 2021 with Lexus 2.5+ safety system.

Between, when I heard from the sales guy on the revised priced of ES300h Luxury - its 80.5 L (On road - Chennai), which is 1L INR higher than the entry level E-class . It's absolutely shocking to be priced equivalently to that of continental cars, when I was looking at an alternative to them !

Here are my 2 cents - Wait for November '21 - if not try to get the best deal out of the outgoing variant. You still have time !

[sunikkat]

Though it’s personal preference, I never found Lexus to be exciting and don’t even give a second glance whenever I see them. The only thing going for it is reliability, but then I think you can get most of Lexus in a Camry.
If in your place will go for a 5 series or any other German or even Volvo, but Lexus is too boring for me.

[pun337]

Hi Vaahan,

I do not have an opinion on the selection of cars in this segment, but like to share an experience that might be helpful.

We are a Toyota family since the Qualis, when we were planning to upgrade from our Innova in 2019, we decided on the Fortuner once all the test drives of all competing products were done.

We purchased our vehicle from a prominent dealer in the Mumbai metropolitan region, we took quotes from all dealers just to be sure.
We had fair offers and good offers and very good offers on popular(fast moving) colours.
Due to our relationship over the years and purchase of vehicles in different segments from the dealer, I asked for a visit to the stock yard (depot) to check the vehicles on offer.

The Dealers stock yard is on the Bhivandi Nasik highway and I could visit in the morning just before opening time as My setup is in TTC.

Points to note, As I was waiting at the yard gate couple of the main guys in charge of the yard drove in on high-end vehicles one a lexus and one a fortuner obviously not their own.

I made it a point to book a Fortuner that was not sitting on the lot and a colour that was not available in stock, for this I had to wait, but that was OK.

Also made the yard PDI of my vehicle before dispatch to the dealer showroom, this time I had pushed for inspection on short notice with the pretense of Me being in Bhiwandi, got the confirmation and did the Yard PDI in the early evening.

When you enter the yard the washing area is at the far end, the lower segment vehicles are at the front of the large yard in the open, and the higher end vehicles are in a semi covered shed with MS roofing near the washing area, there is a separate semi covered shed with MS roofing for Lexus vehicles.

As our yard PDI was done we got to talking to the guys, the cleaner, the security, the manager into the evening.

Here again I noticed the guys in-charge of the Yard taking out the Lexus to go home in.

In conversation, I found the guys live in near by villages, so assuming a round trip of 10 to 12kms. The tachometer may have been disconnected or the vehicles taken out on rotation.

So my advice would be to,
1. Instruct the dealer the Vehicle should not move out of the yard after being delivered.
2.Not to go for a vehicle that have been sitting in the yard for a long time even if being given a better offer.
3. Do a PDI at the yard with a fine comb and with another person.
4. Reach earlier than the confirmed time for PDI, so as to see the cleaning of the vehicle, if anything inside the vehicle is cleaned, check what exactly is being done.
5. If the yard PDI is done in this season, and you can check the cleaning process, check the wheel wells for mud.

This should give you additional peace of mind and get an unused vehicle.

This issue was already communicated to the higher ups at the dealership when we noticed it, so hope there are checks and balances in place now.

[Vaahan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Sorry I was not clear. By Toyota Pune I meant the OEM Toyota Kirloskar. Remember we need a lot of photos once the car comes. These two pages of advice need to be paid for with photos. :-)

Thank you sir. Will absolutely do the needful.

Originally Posted by RJK

Congrats on your choice. With Lexus, your ownership will remain largely uneventful (that's a good thing!).


but hey, its Bombay, where are we going to race off to...LOL. Also the fuel economy certainly reduces the mental agony when we are stuck in traffic for hours together burning the black gold.

Cheers

Thank you. Makes me feel better!!

Originally Posted by Simple_car

Hey Vaahan!

Congratulations on the decision. I just recently purchased the exact same model and colour (with white interiors).

I somehow missed this thread completely, but nonetheless, I would like to assuage some of your concerns about the Lexus.

My use case is similar to yours, only that I do not have any kids but elderly parents who ride along with me. I primarily commute with a chauffeur in the city and go out for some night drives occasionally when I'm in the mood.

My previous cars have always been germans, and I love the machines for what they offer. Before finalising the Lexus, I test drove almost all the cars from all the brands (except BMW, who for some reason didn't bother with TD cars for 2 months!). I purposely kept out the Camry, as I knew that I will not buy the Lexus once I drive it (I'm still value-conscious by heart ). I didn't have a specific budget in mind but was firm only in my requirements:
- should be easy ingress/egress for my parents
- less headache for servicing (after spending a decade with the germans and their reps in Mumbai, I wasn't keen on wasting my time on them).
- comfort (in terms of ride quality, and also should also calm my nerves when I am facing the maddening Mumbai traffic)
- should be quiet

The Lexus will clear ~95% of the bumps in Mumbai and even surrounding areas (known for their even shoddier roads). I have driven the car through most of the typical MH roads you are likely to encounter and rest assured you should be ok. The CBU models are problematic (even after Toyota installed new stoppers), but the CKD models fare just fine.

The main clincher for the Lexus for me was the ease of ingress/egress for my elderly parents and super-elderly grandparents. The car beat all other models listed out on this thread and some of the more respected SUV's which I tested.

The new ES is brisk enough for Mumbai. You won't be complaining about the majority of the use cases (unless you are used to cars that have explosive engines).

The ES is no match to the germans as far as driving dynamics are concerned, but in its current avatar will do the job.

I don't get the f.e. numbers that other members have mentioned (its 12-13 kmpl in the city for me), but I am guessing thats due to the traffic I have to navigate and my chauffeur's driving habits.

I haven't dealt with the service till now (my car is 1500 kms young), so I cannot comment on the dealer service experience. As far as sales is concerned, I had a tough time with the dealer as I was adamant on the interior colour and told him politely that I will not go ahead with the purchase if I don't get the colour I want.

Do share the pictures of the car when you take the delivery and here's wishing you a very happy experience with the car.

Thanks,
Simple_car

Firstly hearty congratulations on your purchase and thanks for sharing the experience. Reading this helps provide more assurance that the choice is good! Happy driving!

Originally Posted by Pier39

Hey man,

Why would you want to buy an older version ES300h Luxury, when Lexus is bring their new ES300h in November 2021 with Lexus 2.5+ safety system.

Between, when I heard from the sales guy on the revised priced of ES300h Luxury - its 80.5 L (On road - Chennai), which is 1L INR higher than the entry level E-class . It's absolutely shocking to be priced equivalently to that of continental cars, when I was looking at an alternative to them !

Here are my 2 cents - Wait for November '21 - if not try to get the best deal out of the outgoing variant. You still have time !

Thanks sir! They did tell me about this but were suggesting (but were themselves unsure) that the prices would go up. I was okay with the current variant and the price. Did not want to go any higher since I had already stretched. But thanks for making a very valid point.

Originally Posted by pun337

Hi Vaahan,

Here again I noticed the guys in-charge of the Yard taking out the Lexus to go home in.

In conversation, I found the guys live in near by villages, so assuming a round trip of 10 to 12kms. The tachometer may have been disconnected or the vehicles taken out on rotation.

So my advice would be to,
1. Instruct the dealer the Vehicle should not move out of the yard after being delivered.
2.Not to go for a vehicle that have been sitting in the yard for a long time even if being given a better offer.
3. Do a PDI at the yard with a fine comb and with another person.
4. Reach earlier than the confirmed time for PDI, so as to see the cleaning of the vehicle, if anything inside the vehicle is cleaned, check what exactly is being done.
5. If the yard PDI is done in this season, and you can check the cleaning process, check the wheel wells for mud.

This should give you additional peace of mind and get an unused vehicle.

This issue was already communicated to the higher ups at the dealership when we noticed it, so hope there are checks and balances in place now.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and provide these tips. I will put them into action immediately. Really appreciate this.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Vaahan

One of the things I forgot to mention is that my wife is an environmentalist and her overwhelming vote was for the Lexus ( and plus the looks).

If you would have told her who owns Audi (the emissions cheat VW), the A6 would be out the window without even a TD .

Also, be sure NOT to tell her Tesla is coming soon. Else, there goes your Lexus ES