[V.Narayan]

Came a little late to this thread as I was off the grid for a while. Androdev has made some great points on these cars. Going by your usage profile both the 5 and the ES300h are equally good. Go with your heart. I assume there was a reason the E LWB Mercedes wasn't on your list. To address your last 4 questions

Some questions:
1. Should I take a service packages and extended warranties for Lexus, if I ever take this one?
2. Are PDI charges mandatory? I see both Lexus and BMW including them in their quotes.
3. When I go for a TD, can I ask them that I want to TD the car for a good 30mins-1 hour? (sorry, if this is senseless question )
4. Do they give discounts on service packages and warranties? If yes, what kind of discounts can I expect.

(1) Yes take the extended warranty. The battery now gets an eight year warranty. (3) Yes do a long test drive especially on roads that are frequented by you so you can compare. My test drive was for 2 hours plus. Insist on it. (4) as far as I know there are no discounts.

Best of luck with your decision & purchase.

[ravimittal99]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Came a little late to this thread as I was off the grid for a while. Androdev has made some great points on these cars. Going by your usage profile both the 5 and the ES300h are equally good. Go with your heart. I assume there was a reason the E LWB Mercedes wasn't on your list. To address your last 4 questions

(1) Yes take the extended warranty. The battery now gets an eight year warranty. (3) Yes do a long test drive especially on roads that are frequented by you so you can compare. My test drive was for 2 hours plus. Insist on it. (4) as far as I know there are no discounts.

Best of luck with your decision & purchase.

Thank you Narayan sir. Your post on the Lexus ES300h is so confidence inspiring. I have read through every page of your post!

[androdev]

Originally Posted by ravimittal99

...the prime issue for me would be 'peace of mind' which I don't want to trade off.
...
But my main driving is in the city, in the traffic. I don't think I would every take my car out to the outskirts except for a few occasions.

9 out of 10 times, this calls for a Lexus ES300h.

So whatever car I TD, I will make sure to test them on such roads and also check the pickup of the ES300h, if it is to my liking.

9 out of 10 times, BMW will ace a test drive. It is very difficult to resist the temptation to buy a BMW. However, you have to buy what is best suited for your driving needs.

And I believe there are too many BMW enthusiasts in here

That would be an understatement. It tops many categories in luxury segment on team-bhp: max number of ownership threads, longest running and active ownership threads, most often sighted luxury car in team-bhp meet ups, luxury brand owned by max number of moderators and senior members. the list goes on.

Some questions:

1. Should I take a service packages and extended warranties for Lexus, if I ever take this one?

An emphatic NO to service package, it would be monumental waste of money for your low usage. I don't know the cost of Lexus warranty - it better be substantially cheaper than that of a BMW.

2. Are PDI charges mandatory? I see both Lexus and BMW including them in their quotes.

I guess they will say it is mandatory. Most of us look at the overall price and not worry too much about individual line items - if you squeeze them on one item, they will inflate some other item.

3. When I go for a TD, can I ask them that I want to TD the car for a good 30mins-1 hour? (sorry, if this is senseless question )

You absolutely must take long and multiple TDs till you are convinced. I am generally shy to ask for discounts but I am very particular and thorough when it comes to evaluating product. Interestingly, most salesmen identify you as a serious buyer if you spend a lot of time in TD'ing and learning about the car. I feel this is also the most enjoyable part of car buying process - esp if you do it with family/friends.

4. Do they give discounts on service packages and warranties? If yes, what kind of discounts can I expect.

I suspect very attractive discounts are a thing of past. Supply is very limited these days and I don't see the situation improving anytime soon.

[ravimittal99]

While considering the additional costs for a BMW, I have got clarity that I may not need a BSI due to low usage.
Ref - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5189834.

Originally Posted by androdev

One thing unique and favourable about your requirement is that your usage is pretty low. At 600KM per month and under 50K km for 6 years, I can't think of a single MB/BMW that would need any major repair.

There are two categories: consumables vs repairs. I don't want to offend anyone but you can't expect to buy a 60L car and complain about the following type of expenses (note the frequency in the context of your low mileage):
30K: battery replacement every 5-6 years, some batteries last 10 years.
25-30K: brake jobs every 20K km or so.
25-30K: oil + filters every year or 10K km.
40K: transmission service every 4 years or so
50K: new tires every 30K km or so.

However, could I get more inputs (specifically for BMW) based on the above estimates:
1. If my driving is approx 6,000 kms a year, how should I approach the servicing-
Will the servicing be required mandatorily at the end of the year?
Or wait for 15,000 kms (even if it takes 1.5 years)?
Or should I get it serviced voluntarily at end of year?
Or only head to the service center if the vehicle prompts errors?

2. What is the average service cost I can expect for 1st to 4th servicing? (Just a ballpark would help. I have been trying to find BMW 5 series related ownership reports about service costs but was unable to find any references.)

3. Do I have to be alert and send the vehicle to the service center every time I see an error pop up in the car or those can be ignored at times?

4. In some videos, owners mention getting BMWs serviced at 10,000 kms. So what's the ideal time for servicing? 10,000, 15,000 or depending on errors?

5. Some people also mention getting wheel alignment done every 5,000 kms to upkeep the condition of tyres. Is this advisable? If yes, should this be mandatorily done at the service centers or can be done outside?

6. What all additions should I consider for a BMW insurance, like hydro lock, key, transmission, headlights, etc?

[androdev]

Originally Posted by ravimittal99

However, could I get more inputs (specifically for BMW) based on the above estimates:
1. If my driving is approx 6,000 kms a year, how should I approach the servicing-
Will the servicing be required mandatorily at the end of the year?
Or wait for 15,000 kms (even if it takes 1.5 years)?
Or should I get it serviced voluntarily at end of year?
Or only head to the service center if the vehicle prompts errors?

Service package would be a wasteful expense, don't bother even if it looks attractive during the purchase process. Yes, the BMW computer will prompt you for a service after 1 year or sooner if something requires attention. In other words, you will have to send your car for servicing annually even if you don't use it. However the actual expenses for the service would be very minimal if your usage is less.

2. What is the average service cost I can expect for 1st to 4th servicing? (Just a ballpark would help. I have been trying to find BMW 5 series related ownership reports about service costs but was unable to find any references.)

1st year 6000KM: Just oil change and oil filter. Clean air filter and AC filter. Nothing else required. Less than 20K bill.

2nd year 12000KM: Oil+filter change. Air filter change. AC filter inspect and replace if required. Wheel balancing optional. Brake fluid if computer asks for it. 20-40K bill (AC filter is costly).

3rd year 18000KM: Oil+filter change. Clean air filter. AC filter (replace if not done before). Wipers replace if required. New brake pads if computer asks for it. 50K bill if brake job is required.

4th year 24000KM: Oil+filter change. Should be 20K if brakes and AC filters were covered earlier. Wheel balancing etc.

Decline value-add services like detailing, wheel balancing etc. You can refer to our low-usage BMW bills here:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ml#post4351716

3. Do I have to be alert and send the vehicle to the service center every time I see an error pop up in the car or those can be ignored at times?

Short answer is yes. Computer gives you sufficient lead time - it wont be like "take it now!. You can always check with service advisor and fix up a convenient time.

4. In some videos, owners mention getting BMWs serviced at 10,000 kms. So what's the ideal time for servicing? 10,000, 15,000 or depending on errors?

Stick to 10000KM or yearly. 15K is too much for our Indian traffic conditions.

5. Some people also mention getting wheel alignment done every 5,000 kms to upkeep the condition of tyres. Is this advisable? If yes, should this be mandatorily done at the service centers or can be done outside?

I might be in the minority but I am not regular with wheel alignment. If you are driving mostly in the city at moderate speeds, you can do it once in 2 years. It is very cheap in outside tire shops (reputed ones with Hunter equipment) - there is no need for BMW dealer for this job.

6. What all additions should I consider for a BMW insurance, like hydro lock, key, transmission, headlights, etc?

Insurance would be the biggest annual cost in your case (and recommended too) In the order of priority:
1. Engine + gearbox protection (covers underbody damage, hyro lock etc.)
2. Zero depreciation cover (covers glass, plastic, etc.)
3. Tire and wheel protection
4. No need for key replacement, return to invoice, etc. However you don't save much by declining.

[ravimittal99]

Thank you Androdev. These are such valuable points in owning a BMW/German car for a first timer. Gives the much needed information on where we could save costs and where to be careful post the purchase.

[pk1972]

Ravi - welcome to team-bhp. Great thread - I am in a similar boat but only looking at cross-overs 60-70 lac range.

Androdev - very insightful information in your posts. I recently took an test drive of XC60 petrol (launched last month) and found it to be very good to drive and the interiors luxurious. Any reason you have not included Volvo them in your recommendations?

[ravimittal99]

As the year is coming to an end, I am most probably going to finalize a car in Jan, 2022. There are a few questions I would like to ask:

Do I get the insurance from Lexus or BMW or should I go with my own third party?
Me thinks, the insurance seems to be a major component in the pricing and I believe BMW guys will not budge on the insurance cost.
Or should I ask them if they have any approved banks where processing insurance claims would be easier?

I understand that the Hyderabad dealer wouldn't offer much discounts (also considering the chip shortage and all), is it advisable to buy from Bangalore or Delhi and get it shipped to Hyderabad and get it registered in Hyderabad, Telangana?

[Axe77]

I am sure either of these brands will allow you to get your own insurance. While limited supplies mean lesser discounts I don’t expect BMW to act like some Mahindra or similar dealers where they refuse to let customer getting his insurance on his own for high waitlisted cars.

In fact if you get an external quote there is a chance BMW may match it as well. I don’t know about Lexus but hopefully whatever I wrote above would hold good for Lexus too.

Discuss this with them early on and get independent quotes as needed. I think this should work out easily. A related point though, if they ARE giving some discounts, this could change based on your getting your own insurance as very often they have factored these margins while providing you offers. I doubt you will be able double dip into your negotiation - i.e. first get a discounted price from them and then further negotiate you getting your own insurance.

[ravimittal99]

Here's an update on my journey on buying a new premium luxury car:

I visited the Audi showroom in another city (don't ask me why! Just wanted to take a test drive) and was offered a good discount on the Audi A4. The discount could be in the range of 10 lakhs or more.

I took a test drive and the drive was pretty calm, the car was quick, fun and loaded with features. Again, I have no clue about after sales support, how long the interiors will last and reliability which were my main concerns when considering a premium luxury car, as Audi is new territory, comparing to the inputs I got on Lexus and BMW so far from you all.

My primary choices remain
1. Lexus ES 300h
2. BMW 5 series
but the attractive discounts on A4 seems to be interesting because this widens the gap of price difference of around 30 lakhs between the above two. If the difference would have been 10-15 lakhs, I would have easily ruled out A4.

What would be a sane advice?

[kvothe_rules]

Originally Posted by ravimittal99

My primary choices remain
1. Lexus ES 300h
2. BMW 5 series
but the attractive discounts on A4 seems to be interesting because this widens the gap of price difference of around 30 lakhs between the above two. If the difference would have been 10-15 lakhs, I would have easily ruled out A4.

What would be a sane advice?

Ravi,

The A4 is a segment lower than the above listed cars though its great value for money with the discounts you are quoting. I think the A6 would be a fairer comparison.
If its only badge value you are looking at and would want to save money, A4 makes complete sense.

[ravimittal99]

Originally Posted by kvothe_rules

The A4 is a segment lower than the above listed cars though its great value for money with the discounts you are quoting. I think the A6 would be a fairer comparison.
If its only badge value you are looking at and would want to save money, A4 makes complete sense.

Yes, A4 is for sure a segment lower, but if the price difference was around 25-30 lacs between both segments (considering the difference between 330Li and 5 series is just 10-15 lacs), I felt it would be reasonable to consider just for the badge value, the tech inside the car, decent drive, quite interior.

[saisree]

We test drove BMW 5 series five weeks back and Lexus ES 300h yesterday. We took both the cars in to the same road which has 13 speed breakers in a span of 2 KMS (Bharatamatha St, Tambaram East) and connects to the GST Road. BMW scrapped in one speed breaker and Lexus scrapped in all of them. Its the same set of people in both the drives, seated at the same spot. Lexus seems to have soft suspension.

One more issue we found in Lexus is, we are able to hear all of the outside noise inside the car.

Originally Posted by ravimittal99

. Are you referring to the tyre noise or the outside traffic noise as such?

Its the outside noise from a passing auto, two wheeler etc., and we were able to feel some vibrations inside when a lorry passed by.

[ravimittal99]

Originally Posted by saisree

We test drove BMW 5 series five weeks back and Lexus ES 300h yesterday. We took both the cars in to the same road which has 13 speed breakers in a span of 2 KMS (Bharatamatha St, Tambaram East) and connects to the GST Road. BMW scrapped in one speed breaker and Lexus scrapped in all of them. Its the same set of people in both the drives, seated at the same spot. Lexus seems to have soft suspension.

One more issue we found in Lexus is, we are able to hear all of the outside noise inside the car.

This is very intriguing. Thank you for sharing this.

When I TD'ed the Lexus, it did hit a scrape a speed breaker but it was a big one. I sure don't think it would scrape most of them. However, I am having doubts too about the tyre noise coming in after my 2nd test drive on the Lexus, outside noise, didn't feel any. I am going for a test drive again tomorrow to test the same. Are you referring to the tyre noise or the outside traffic noise as such?

[ravimittal99]

I TD'ed the Lexus ES300h today, this was almost my 4th test drive and I must say I got most of my doubts clarified with this one. Here are my observations with driving the car for almost 30-45 mins.

What I liked:
- The interior is very quite. You do not hear much of outside noise
- The tyre noise was very low and can only be heard on specific tar roads (even the smooth ones). I'm not sure but it could be because of how the roads are laid out.
- The ride quality was superior with no bumps felt, especially on flyovers when two piers connect and all I could just hear was a soft noise
- The pick up is okaish, but once it picks pace, it accelerates quickly
- The drive is mostly on EV in low speeds and only when you pick speed, does the petrol engine kicks in, giving much of the low speed drive to be pretty smooth and quiet
- The sound quality is amazing, I think the best I've heard so far
- The seat cushioning which just soaks you in
- The heads up display which shows speed, compass, audio track
- seat adjustments are very comfortable, especially the electronically adjustable thigh support
- The sport mode makes the steering a bit stiffer and the car feels fast
- The steering is neither too light or too hard in normal mode
- On turns, the handling is really good and the steering feedback is accurate
- Back seat space, boot space
- The mileage, of course
- Passenger side electronic adjustment and lumbar support adjustment
- The availability of cooled and heated front passenger seats
- The availability of physical buttons for media controls makes it quick to access, but also adds quite a few buttons on the center console
- Among other things, the SA told me the service package for 3 yrs and 30,000 kms would be just Rs. 48,500 incl. of brake pads!


Things I didn't like:
- The bottom sunroof (inner one) closes only manually
- The driver cockpit view is not great, but doable
- The MMI needs to be used with support of touch and track pad at places, cannot be independently used by touch at some places
- Basic history on car usage on the MMI doesn't feel exciting
- The back seat recline angle is approx 8-11 degrees, which did not make much difference
- The back seat climate adjustment is on the center armrest, so if you add a 5th passenger, accessing this becomes difficult
- The ORVM adjustments felt a little rough and not luxurious
- The sunroof control section felt a little old
- The center console space is not as well managed with a lot of space taken by the track pad
- The ac controls display on the MMI is a little confusing