[batladanny]

Adding another option to the list…

The BMW 630d. The recent thread (My first car is a BMW 6-Series GT 630d!) by another BHPian can make you a convert

[H_Dogg72]

I would strike out the
2Litre Petrols
And
3Liter Diesels
From your choice of vehicles. When spending this amount of money a 3L Petrol seems like the minimum really.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by nxshar2

Mumbai BMW doesn't have GT6 or M340i for TD still, waiting for both.

I'd give the 6GT a skip and look at the 530D instead : it is that much nimbler in the city for self driving, especially given you're not going to be using the rear seats much - the only miss being the air suspension but the adaptive suspension on the 530D should keep you happy.

Unfortunately due to limited numbers sold, test drives are tricky. BMW recently sold their M340i demo vehicle too. The biggest change over the 330i is the suspension tune : it is firm and there is no denying that hence the recommendation for the 330i.

[vivekrvcse]

If you haven't test driven the X5, please do.

As an Audi and BMW owner, while Audi does a phenomenal job of comfort plus good ride - if you need insane in-gear acceleration, and very impressive braking performance, X5 would be super

It is amazing how you don't feel the bulk after 1 week, and just the amazing performance

[nxshar2]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Given a choice I pick the Macan over the F pace for self drive any day.

Why? Could you tell more - ride quality/ handling ? I ask because being a sedan person for 10 years, I felt right at home in Macan, every other SUV felt strange and bulky - exception of X3.

Originally Posted by batladanny

Adding another option to the list…

The BMW 630d. The recent thread (My first car is a BMW 6-Series GT 630d!) by another BHPian can make you a convert

Don't know why but am not a fan of diesels depsite BMW sales guy explaining how 530d and 630d are the ultimate refined versions when it comes to diesels and how BMW is know for it's diesels.

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

I would strike out the
2Litre Petrols
And
3Liter Diesels
From your choice of vehicles. When spending this amount of money a 3L Petrol seems like the minimum really.

Going by that I would be left with mostly cars revealing some sort of life crisis especially for someone in late thirties. Honestly I don't know if those could be used as daily/weekend drivers. On the other hand, there is the case that we have about 5 years before low ingress/ egress cars become non practical with age so go for broke now and get something sporty and fun. Leave the practicality for 40s.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

I'd give the 6GT a skip and look at the 530D instead : it is that much nimbler in the city for self driving, especially given you're not going to be using the rear seats much - the only miss being the air suspension but the adaptive suspension on the 530D should keep you happy.

The interiors did feel superior to anything else that was in the showroom that day.

Originally Posted by vivekrvcse

If you haven't test driven the X5, please do.

As an Audi and BMW owner, while Audi does a phenomenal job of comfort plus good ride - if you need insane in-gear acceleration, and very impressive braking performance, X5 would be super

It is amazing how you don't feel the bulk after 1 week, and just the amazing performance

That is interesting insight, would try out for sure.

TBD next couple of weeks - E53, C43, X5, S5 and diesel bmws. There is a 3 litre Macan 2017 for 58 on carwale, will give that a look as well.

Would keep you posted, thanks again for all the help. You won't believe how much I need it.

[Mach_1590]

BMW M2 competition. Its easily one of the best handling BMWs ever and one of the best M cars. Nürburgring is filled with M2's. Do check it out with the dealer, they mostly don't have it with them, you might need to hassle a bit to get a test drive. Its not exactly in your budget, but since its an extra-ordinary car, your might wanna stretch.

[nxshar2]

Hi All, couple of strange (and cruel) twists and updates.

Did the TD for the S5 yesterday. I felt a fairly usable sports car - if I may call it that. The engine sounds are lovely and you get the ear to ear smile for yourself and head turns from those around you. The ingress/ egress easy on knees. As fate would have it, wife didn't like the noise and sudden pulls of acceleration and has kiboshed the dreams of a noisy sports car. I will still TD the AMGs but I have the sinking feeling, I probably won't be buying one. To be fair getting a sports car as the only luxury vehicle was probably little ambitious to begin with.

Just for completeness' sake, I also called the Lexus people and drove the ES300 and what a car!! Has all the bells and whistles I ever wanted - ventilated seats, recline function at back, memory seats, heads up display, very comfortable ride and 14-15 km-pl mileage in the city. Acceleration in the sport mode seemed fair to me, though not the head back feeling you get from either BMW or S5. Only negatives are a four month waiting period and the salesman saying a firm "NO" on discounts.

Does anyone ever regret buying a Lexus compared to what's available in this price range
Are zero discounts seriously acceptable?

[androdev]

You are not allowed to get wise and sensible so fast :-) You must suffer the German engineering on the way to Japanese enlightenment.

Jokes apart, ES300h would be ultra smooth and effortless to drive. Good fuel efficiency is an added bonus. But you can't hustle the car, say like a Macan. The suspension will also be a bit softer that can be unsettling on rough roads compared to typical German suspension. It boils down to what you value more in a car as almost all cars in this budget are outstanding cars with different flavours of strengths and weaknesses. I am afraid your wife might say ES or nothing - it's the best car for people who like a smooth drive in the urban traffic.

Nobody is giving much discounts these days as they are managing their inventories very efficiently. Should not be a major criteria. Maybe you can check pre-owned ES, as these are reliable and driven very responsibly. Do check Camry Hybrid just for completeness.

[lamborghini]

Picked up an ES last year (albeit pre-owned) to replace our aging A6.

Honestly, given it was primarily a pure city car which would be chauffeur driven and see limited touring, it made great sense over the other two in the shortlist - the Audi A6 & BMW 6GT; especially given we managed to get a 18 month old CBU for the price of a new Camry Hybrid on road.

Here's my post (Luxury Car: INR 50-75L Bracket) on the same.

Of course back then, the ES was priced at a premium to the 6GT, E Class, and A6 - so there was no way I could justify buying a new ES over the 6GT (better ride, rear seat comfort though a little bulky in the city to drive but with the air suspension I could see myself doing more highway trips behind the wheel) and the A6 was a brilliant overall package too - worth considering!
If the pre-owned CBU example didn't pop up, I would have probably gone back to being German with either the 6GT or the A6.

Today however, the ES is priced reasonably well compared to it's peers for what it offers and it does make sense buying one new - I found it super easy to drive in the city compared to it's peers + the fuel economy can shame economy hatchbacks + interior ambience is truly amazing + soft ride quality is a boon on Mumbai roads along with a proper spare tyre for emergencies!
This is one car that would carry forward your Honda's strengths : expected to be more reliable, smooth, and a brilliant family car; but will also carry forward the weaknesses : low ground clearance, soft suspension, etc.

But at the same time, given your affinity for longer road trips : the A6 (good discounts, practical with a usable boot and higher profile tyres, decent performance on offer, splendid interiors, and a well calibrated ride & handling balance - the only advantage the ES had over the A6 really was cleaner hybrid tech + rear seat space and rear seat controls for recline, ac, etc. making it great for the chauffeur driven but I don't know if you would miss them since it's primarily a self driven weekend car), and the 530D (not the 6GT as apart from the air suspension in it's favour, the 530D M-Sport is that much easier to drive around with the same interior ambience as the 6GT : I don't know if it has changed with the LCI Facelift, but pre-facelift only the 530D M-Sport got the cross stitched nappa leather interiors like the 630D M-Sport since you mentioned you liked the interiors of the 6GT assuming the diesel manages to win you over).

Skip the M340i : the suspension is very stiff in the city which could be vetoed by many family members.

I would also suggest taking these cars for a test drive on the eastern freeway during sparse traffic timing - start to end as it would be a great way to get the know how these cars behave on different conditions - battered roads leading up to freeway, freeway too has some rough patches, undulations, smooth corners, etc.
This would help give you an idea of what to expect from each of these cars in terms of masking speed, low speed ride, high speed ride, handling on different surfaces, etc. and see which one suits you best!

[nxshar2]

Originally Posted by androdev

You are not allowed to get wise and sensible so fast :-) You must suffer the German engineering on the way to Japanese enlightenment.

I really really want to. Good news is ES is ~80 and technically I can still get a used S5 for around 35 because 115 was already budgeted when we were thinking of Macan. Don't know if that logic will fly but hope for the best!!!

Originally Posted by androdev

The suspension will also be a bit softer that can be unsettling on rough roads compared to typical German suspension.

I did notice that and am so glad you pointed it out as well. There was a noticeable shimmy at low speed when climbing an uneven road.

Do check Camry Hybrid just for completeness.

Will do, thanks!

Originally Posted by lamborghini

This is one car that would carry forward your Honda's strengths : expected to be more reliable, smooth, and a brilliant family car; but will also carry forward the weaknesses : low ground clearance, soft suspension, etc.

Thanks, I had read most of the Lexus threads here but somehow missed that one. The reason I think I can manage road trips with this is because ventilated seats are a big draw for me and I have done substantial research and Lexus seems to have everyone beat in that regard. Low GC I can handle, we did 5k across south west India in our Honda City (which is a 2011 model and has the lowest GC even in all Honda Cities) in monsoons in 2017 and scraped the bottom once on a hairpin near Wayanad. The soft suspension though could be a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

I don't know if it has changed with the LCI Facelift, but pre-facelift only the 530D M-Sport got the cross stitched nappa leather interiors like the 630D M-Sport since you mentioned you liked the interiors of the 6GT assuming the diesel manages to win you over).

You are bang on about the 530 D M-sport, the interiors are definitely a grade above the others. My problem is BMW Mumbai - Navnit and Infinity, I can't seem to get a TD out of these two for the life of me. Still waiting on non limousine 3, 5 series and 6 GT but they don't even have a timeline of when the vehicles will be available. Now I am thinking it won't be a bad idea to fly to Delhi / Hyderabad to try these out but then I wouldn't want to give my money to Mumbai folks. Might be a little petty but would be fair IMO.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

I would also suggest taking these cars for a test drive on the eastern freeway during sparse traffic timing - start to end

I plan to do that with the shortlist, which for now, has ES300, Macan and as you suggested A6. Way I see it, only way Lexus loses it is if the soft suspension really rattles at high speeds. Hopefully I can get my hands on a BMW soon.

Read plenty praises on this very forum for new C class (some calling it a mini S class) coming up in May. If Lexus won't deliver to me before July, might as well wait and check that out as well.

On a side note, only on my fifth post I realise the true value of asking these questions here. By constantly questioning and suggesting alternates - you guys make sure that at the end of the day the OP will be sure that whatever he/she buys was the car for them, Kudos!!

[androdev]

I did notice that and am so glad you pointed it out as well. There was a noticeable shimmy at low speed when climbing an uneven road.

I don't have much experience with ES but I daily drive prev gen Camry hybrid and have seriously evaluated the new Camry hybrid. Camry feels surreal in stop and go traffic, at such slow speeds where suspension doesn't matter much and you are blown away by the smooth ride, quiet, spacious and plush cabin. You can't beat a battery powered Camry in stop-and-traffic. Anything else will feel crude. As a driver, I particularly appreciate how effortless it is to drive in city traffic. However once the car is on the move, a typical German car such as 5 series would feel like a train on rails compared to Camry whose suspension does a poor job of soaking up uneven roads. Thankfully one rarely moves at good pace in Bangalore, so I am quite happy with Camry within the city and I put up with the average suspension because of all other virtues of the car (and it has MANY).

If you are a "car guy" and you have to buy only one car, I would say stick with the German brands. ES will be phenomenal in a narrow spectrum of usage but a typical German sedan would be a better all-rounder. Usual reliability and cost of ownership disclaimers apply.

Unfortunately, there is no perfect car. The key is to make the right compromise. The fact that ES is a strong contender means you are thinking rationally and I am sure few more test drives will give you more clarity

How about this combination:

1. Camry Hybrid
2. Pre-owed Macan that is generously optioned

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by nxshar2

Why? Could you tell more - ride quality/ handling ? I ask because being a sedan person for 10 years, I felt right at home in Macan, every other SUV felt strange and bulky - exception of X3.

My Macan has a stage 1 remap, simply put it packs a lot more punch than the Jag. Handling is way tighter and car like compared to the F-pace which feels like a SUV. Macan is in a league of it’s own, hence if F-pace is compared to other SUVs, it’s a lot better handling.
The Macan has air suspension which makes a huge difference. The Jag suspension is very stiff which helps its handling but on Mumbai roads it is no where a plush ride especially at the rear. There is a lot of movement on bad pot holes.

[nxshar2]

Quick update but a long post:

Tried the pre owned Macan. Felt sub par in interior quality, brakes, suspension and even acceleration despite being a 3 liter turbo. Called the dealer and he explained that the car had just come in and is yet to go for checkup/ tuneup. He promised a far better TD next week but I am not hopeful.

Went to the AMG showroom yesterday and here’s my impression of the three cars I tried. All three were fantastic cars and I am mainly nitpicking for my use case here.

GLA 45 - Absolute beauty of a car, the pure AMG engine noise and acceleration/ braking/ handling is just mind boggling. Of all the three, this one feels nimble, light on its feet and super responsive. Both front seats are spacious and comfortable, we didn’t bother with the rear seats on this one.
The low GC and low boot space make it very impractical for touring (even for two people). The suspension and GC would make it uncomfortable to use for weekend rides through Mumbai roads.

E53 - Sedan-like handling is definitely more familiar, Accelerates faster than the C43 and feels lighter as well. Rear seats are probably tad more comfortable than the C43. Might just work for all purposes.
Cons - Struggling to find faults here but price for one at ~1.3; the boot with space saver on top. The extra 4-5 inches in length could be a concern in crowded narrow street traffic but I found it okay and the 360 camera could be an asset in tight situations.

GLC43 coupe - This seems to be emerging as the favorite. Ticks all the boxes that I wanted in the Macan - 3 liters, air suspension, adaptive dampers, height adjustment, memory seats, decent space at back, boot of 490 i think. The engine noise is superior to the Macan but not as much as an S5 - (Probably the reason it’s not been vetoed yet). The city ride in comfort mode from Worli to sealink was nice and it can handle small speed bumps quite comfortably. It feels a little wobbly on very slow speeds but the sales rep said that’s an SUV thing. IMO cornering at high speeds was almost as smooth as E53 - Way I see it is if you can take a 30 designated corner at 70 or 90 is not really a difference unless you are a pro driver. Absolutely no body roll and confident lane changes at high speeds. It could deliver on a sedan like quality on expressways and handle tough terrain as well.

Cons: No HUD; no ventilated seats; being a CKD it does get the annoying speed warnings over 120 with the music system shut off. I have read it can be easily disconnected but I am not sure. The low mileage is a concern but I expect to use my city (till we get a replacement) for local everyday runs and the GLC43 to be the weekend warrior/ highway car. We test drove all three between 1230-3 PM and despite turning the AC on full blast, I had a sweaty back so cooled seats would have definitely helped. Back view from IRVM is very limited.

Since I could not find any AMG ownership reviews, I would appreciate any advice/ words of wisdom/ cautions on these vehicles.

Thank you - iliketurtles, lamborghini and androdev - Without your guidance/ suggestions , I probably wouldn’t have even considered AMG.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by nxshar2

Since I could not find any AMG ownership reviews, I would appreciate any advice/ words of wisdom/ cautions on these vehicles.

These cars are pretty good overall - just that some parts may not be as easily available so down time could be significant & do not skimp on extended warranty for any reason!

At the same time, I would also suggest taking the X3M out for a spin since you've come away impressed with the GLC AMG.

As for city driving, one thing about these cars is that they have excellent visibility. I don't expect the E53 to be a pain to drive in traffic if you're comfortable with the width, though parking would be a little more challenging due to length - however nothing the car cannot handle.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

At the same time, I would also suggest taking the X3M out for a spin since you've come away impressed with the GLC AMG.

The pre-LCI X3M is no longer available in India, the LCI may come at a later date.