[lamborghini]

Hi Guys,

We are considering replacing our E60 525D in the next few months, and after considerable thought have narrowed down to the following options:
- Camry Hybrid: Most logical!
- BMW 520i / 520D
- Mercedes E250D

While the E60 is a fantastic vehicle (and one that I regret for not using more often), that served us faithfully for over 8 years - it is now time for a change. Requirements for the new vehicle will be:

- Space: It will primarily be used in the city (we have another car for the highway runs) by mom. At times, both Dad and I (6'+) will be sitting one behind the other. Should be easy for parents to enter and exit as well, but strictly no SUVs.
Also, it will be 90% - 99% (depending on the vehicle) chauffeur driven as I use the Laura for my daily runs owing to its smaller size and peppy performance. If the new vehicle is entertaining to drive, then I may use this for the nights and weekends drives; failing which it will be entirely chauffeur driven.

- Ease of maintenance - as it will primarily be used in the city, short distances, and will be entirely chauffeur driven; I would prefer something that doesn't chew my mind as far as maintenance costs go. The Laura and the A6 do that already, and given their extended warranties is going to expire in a few months; peace of mind is critical!
Also, as it would be used by mom daily, I would prefer it not being kept in the A.S.S. for a long duration. We already have an A6, and it's ridiculous when you have to wait for days for a simple service, or brake pad change - this being after you are made to wait a week for a service appointment.

- Good ride quality at speeds up to 120 kmph. Mumbai roads have really deteriorated the last few months. Don't want something that would be bouncy but at the same time shouldn't be super stiff either.

With the above in mind, it seems that the Camry Hybrid is really the way to go - but at the same time, it just doesn't have the sense of occasion that the 5 series and E class do.
Be it the way the doors close, or the small little details that really make the rare instances when I take them out so much more special.

If there are any other options that I am missing out on, do let me know. The BMW 3GT was a top contender too but just loses out because it doesn't have a sun shade in the rear window - small things, but things that mom is particular about.

The new Superb, Audis, JLR, and Volvo are out simply because of A.S.S. Anything bigger than these cars may also be a pain to park.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

- Camry Hybrid: Most logical!

- BMW 520i / 520D

- Mercedes E250D

Although looking at your requirements the Camry hybrid is your best bet but you already have a practical A6. Considering the fact that both the 5-series and E-class are at the end of their life cycle you should be able to get good discounts. Why don't you consider the E350 diesel?

It will satisfy all your comfort related requirements and also will be fun to drive thanks to the v6 diesel under the hood. The 530d would have been a good choice but lack of space might be an issue for you.

Asit

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Although looking at your requirements the Camry hybrid is your best bet but you already have a practical A6. Considering the fact that both the 5-series and E-class are at the end of their life cycle you should be able to get good discounts. Why don't you consider the E350 diesel?

It will satisfy all your comfort related requirements and also will be fun to drive thanks to the v6 diesel under the hood. The 530d would have been a good choice but lack of space might be an issue for you.

Asit

Exactly - the A6 is dad's car, which will also double up as the highway car. We picked up the A6 after comparing it with all the above, simply because it was the newest in it's segment and had fantastic interiors and design.
Hence, don't mind picking up a Camry to give it company - given they will compliment each other very well.

Issue is that aside from the S-Cross and the E60, none of the other cars in the garage have the emotional appeal (the Laura comes close - losing only due to the unfixable rattles that take away from the driving pleasure, and the A6 is just too numb of an experience). With the E60 gone, the selfish side of me wants something that I would enjoy taking out at nights and early mornings - which is where the E and 5 come in.

The 530D with it's 18" alloys, and huge front seats is a no-no.
The E350D - only if they give a stellar discount. There is no additional kit, and it would be hard to justify an additional INR 10-12L expense just for the better performance (which would be when I use it, without family members - a rare 1-2% of total usage and that too given road conditions I generally end up cruising).

[androdev]

Had A6 been a driver's car, you could have bought Camry. What I would do is replace 525d with Camry with a promise to myself that A6 will be replaced by new E.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by androdev

Had A6 been a driver's car, you could have bought Camry. What I would do is replace 525d with Camry with a promise to myself that A6 will be replaced by new E.

The Laura, whenever it is going to be replaced, will be changed for a driver's car if all works out well
I personally hate using others vehicles (family, or friends) hence I use the 5 and A6 very very rarely (that's why only 1-2% of driving will be me alone in the replacement).
If the replacement is exceedingly fun to drive, the figure may go up (to say 5% solo and 15% self driven w/ family); but given it's a car for my parents - their requirements have to come before mine.

[androdev]

Then there is no case for anything other than Camry hybrid you need it to compensate for all the euro liabilities.

[mijnoirhammer67]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Hi Guys,

We are considering replacing our E60 525D in the next few months, and after considerable thought have narrowed down to the following options:
- Camry Hybrid: Most logical!
- BMW 520i / 520D
- Mercedes E250D

After reading everything, it seems to me that you should go for the E350. E400 cabrio too is a good choice budget permitting. But I'm not too sure on the back seat comfort. I spoke to an Audi salesman lately, he was giving me the A6 petrol pre matrix model for 38 lakhs. I was gonna recommend that but you already have a A6, so no point.

Also the new Accord is out soon. Even the XF. Consider all these.
From the branded ones, 520i and 520d; rule these out simply due to rear seat comfort.
E200/250/350/400; all score points over the 5 due to the rear seat space barring the E400. Do note, 530d is better than E350 in terms of driving dynamics and the fun behind the wheel.
Jag XF; best styled executive saloon. Reliability and A.S.S is skeptical.

Besides these, the Superb, Accord and the Camry all have more backseat legroom than the 5, E, A6 and XF. I have the old accord, it still has more backroom than 3 of them 530d's. If you are giving it to the driver, best choose one of these. Don't give him a 50 lakh car. But if you plan to drive it, then E350d suits your requirements. Take a TD though, the 7G box is rather dated now. Plus a new model is due soon, so big discounts. Negotiate hard, they'll bring the price down. New model due in a matter of weeks now. Or else Camry is a good machine. Plus you'll do your bit in helping a greener world albeit as little as possible. Its still better than nothing.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

We are considering replacing our E60 525D in the next few months, and after considerable thought have narrowed down to the following options:
- Camry Hybrid: Most logical!
- BMW 520i / 520D
- Mercedes E250D

You can probably look at 3 new models coming on our way – The Volvo S90, new E, and the new XF. Volvos are generally decent on reliability and the S90 does look brilliant.

[Turbanator]

We are considering replacing our E60 525D in the next few months

Just wait for the new E - it is way ahead than all other cars in this and a segment above. Do keep in touch with Mercedes dealership guy and try to pick Launch edition.

[Nitrous Power]

So we were in same situation 2 months ago. We were replacing our 2011 C220 CDI. First we were ready to wait for new E. However, what I heard is the launch is at least 6 months away from now. And also, the price range is going to be 62-63 lacs ex-showroom onwards. To top it off, we were getting decent discount on MY2016 E250. So finally picked up E250.

The other strong contender was Camry Hybrid as we were not interested in 5 series or A6. Camry was hard to ignore as after tax breaks it was coming to approximately 38 lacs on road. The only reason to reject Camry was the news that Lexus may launch ES250h in next year or two and by then we will be ready for our aging Corolla replacement.

[titan1999]

Hi Guys,

After years spending on this forum and reading delightful details from fellow BHPians, I finally have a question of which I cannot find the answer to, even after meticulously searching through the old threads.

No matter how many threads I read, my mind gets torn between these wonderful cars.
The BMW and Mercedes owners are really passionate about their beasts.

My current beast:
2014 Jetta Comfortline TDI. This car has had no major problems in last 2.5 years, and is really good to drive as well. It will be given to another member of the family. (Volkswagen ASS has been a pain to deal with though, only twice has the car gone to the authorized service stations. Once the MicroSD for the MapMyIndia Sat-Nav magically disappeared, and the second time they messed up the DRL configuration. Jetta is a great car, but my advice is to get it serviced someplace other than Volkswagen Service Centers if you are in Delhi)

The Contenders (Shortlisted to 2):
- BMW 520D M Sport or Luxury Line (520i rejected due to it being Petrol, My daily drive is 100kms. Although I am getting 10 lakhs discount on the petrol version from Bird Automotive Delhi. 530d is sadly beyond budget)
- Mercedes E250D Avant-garde or Edition E (Same reasons as above, for not choosing other variants)

The Losing Finalists:
- New Jaguar XF (Beautiful looking, but most expensive with the weakest Engine in the competition)
- Audi A6 Matrix (No way I am spending this much on a FWD car, also lacking in performance v/s the 2 finalists, dated looks)
- Range Rover Evoque (Slightly out of budget, and horrible Land rover ASS stories)
- Volvo S80 (No badge value, not as good in performance as the 2 finalists)

Considerations:

Self driven: The vehicle will be self-driven 100% of the time, also I run an IT company where I work in Night-shift. So I have the luxury that few people have, empty Delhi roads and highways at 4 AM!

Ride quality: Good ride quality above 100 kmph. Although Delhi roads are good, need something that can be 100% stable at high speeds on the highway. Since it will be mostly me or my wife in the driver’s seat (who is also a driving enthusiast!), I will rate ride quality a bit over comfort. Although comfort has to be good considering I have to drive almost 100kms daily, ride quality needs to be excellent.

Ease of maintenance: Which one is relatively cheaper to maintain? BMW or Mercedes? I will get the maximum coverage they offer, so want to know which one is usually cheaper to keep. I haven’t had a costly affair with the Jetta till now. Best roadside assistance is also critical, as I usually go on long drives on the weekend, along-with my night shifts during the weekdays.

I also need the car almost daily, so which company’s service centers have the best turn-around time? I have heard horrible stories about Jaguar and Land rover’s being kept in the shop for almost a month! This will be a disaster for me!

Safety: In 2013 I had taken my Skoda Octavia (old avatar) to Nainital, It was just another weekend getaway for me, until the breaks stop working. I had to crash into a standing bus, to avoid falling off the mountain. From that date I have decided the No. 1 factor for me while purchasing a car will be safety and stability. Hence the decision to buy the Jetta, over Elantra 2 years ago. Other than the performance it was also miles ahead in build quality and safety. Albeit with less features, which don’t bother me that much.

Which one of these two is the safer option?

If there are any other options that I am missing out on, do let me know. I considered the BMW 3GT, but its shape doesn’t appeal to me. Also other expensive options are beyond my budget.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by titan1999

Self driven: The vehicle will be self-driven 100% of the time..

Has to be a BMW with the best engine you can afford.

Ride quality:... I will rate ride quality a bit over comfort.

BMW again. Very planted, superb handling, feels like a tank (better than Mercedes). kickass brakes.

cheaper to maintain: not much difference, both offer decent service+warranty packages.
Best roadside assistance: Mercedes
best turn-around time: Mercedes
Safety: both should be same, psychologically BMW is more confidence inspiring.

If there are any other options

I wanted to reply with a one-liner of "get yourself a bmw" but wanted to sound more legit so wrote a longer reply

[mijnoirhammer67]

Originally Posted by titan1999

Hi Guys,

Well Mr Titan1999, you have quite a few options in that budget. You haven't specifically mentioned your budget but I'm guessing its around 50-55 lakhs showroom price. This is starting line executive sedan range and you have the luxury to choose from a lot of cars.
From the 520d vs E250d, I'd choose the 520d. I drive the 530d, and I simply love it. Though I would advise you to test drive these cars as this matters a lot. The war between Bimmer and Benz will go on forever, i feel Audi is losing it with FWD and mediocre engines in our market. So, what the 5 series makes for in driving pleasure against the E250 it loses out on rear seat comfort. I have gotten bored of the E class looks for a while now, plus the interiors don't feel so special. Rather dated too. If you can wait for the new E class, i would strongly advise you do that. The new E class is simply ahead of everything out there today. Even the new 5 is due, but that isn't until next year. But from what I've read about the reviews and TD's from friends, the new E class takes the cake. But once again, I urge you to take an extensive TD of these vehicles. Test driving them will help you understand what you want from your car better than anyone else around the world. Better yet, TD them back to back. Call 'em home and take 'em for a spin. If you do opt for the 5, go for the M-sport. The under thigh support extension will help in your long drives.

Now, from what you haven't mentioned. X3, Q5, GLC and XC60. All these are worth considering and are SUV's of course. Ive never driven any of them, but most people i know would take the X3 but whoever owns the XC60 just keeps on bragging how good it is. But once again, TD em. Now, the best bit is for later. You can get A3 convertible in that budget. Believe me, the car has a very good petrol engine underneath and should be considered. It'll thrill you everytime you drive it. As for THE best bit, Volvo S90.

The new VOLVO S90. A friend of mine owns it in the UK and i took it for a very brief ride and boy oh boy, it left an impression. It drove perfect. Immaculate and Ultimate were the words i used to describe it. It was the D5 4WD. It does have lesser power in numbers in comparison to my 530d, but never once was i left hungry for more. The biggest issue i have with the 530d is its braking. It just doesn't inspire confidence and i get the feeling one day it'll cost me dearly. But the S90, none of that. Easy-breezy all the way. Also, 5 has very poor back seat space but no such complains in the S90.

As for safety and maintenance, all these cars are very very safe. No questions there. But I've found out in the past 3 years, owning a BMW is cheaper than owning a Mercedes. Maybe the workshop where my Merc gets serviced is just bad and led by money-minded people, but I've considered selling my Mercs time and time again due to this issue. My father too shares the same belief and is selling them off one by one and in a few weeks time my garage will be filled by beamers. So completely your call here. As for service timings and all, in comparison my BMW's have taken 1 day to come from time to time. But the Mercs have come almost always within a day unless major issue. Id say its almost the same with Merc slightly pipping it here but this depends on the the capability of the workshop and their workload. Roadside assistance, I've only required it once ever. Sunday evening, damp and broken roads everywhere due to rainy season. My X5 car was running on the donut and even that gave in. Within one hour, a BMW technician was on site and within 110 mins exactly from my call, the car was being safely towed away. So once again, top marks here to BMW.

My preference with current-gen cars:
1. 520d, try stretching for the 530d and you won't be disappointed
2. Volvo XC60 and BMW X3
3. Merc E250d

My preference with new and due cars:
1. Volvo S90
2. Volco S90 once more
3. E class

As for the incident in 2013, brah thats lucky. Brakes failing on mountain roads normally end only one way but if you walked away alright then consider yourself extremely lucky and fortunate to have the bus in front to help bring your car to a stop. Rest be assured, all the above mentioned cars shouldn't give you much safety issues. In fact none at all, barring the odd incident. Happy hunting

[asit.kulkarni93]

If you want something fun to drive then you should simply consider the 320d M-sport. A 5-series is best in the form of the 530d. 520d M-sport won't be as good as the 320d.

Asit

[titan1999]

Thanks Androdev!

Seems you have caught on to my subtle BMW bias!

I absolutely love the 530d, having driven one sometime back.

Unfortunately the dealers here in Delhi are giving the maximum discounts on the worst engines. 10 lakhs for 520i, 6.5 lakhs for 520d and only 3 lakhs for 530d. Putting the 530d with the 5 year BSI and extended warranty package over 75l OTR. Which is frankly too much for me.

What are your thoughts on the 520d? Luxury line or M-Sport trim?

Are their any deal-breakers with the 520d in your opinion?

Originally Posted by androdev

Has to be a BMW with the best engine you can afford.


BMW again. Very planted, superb handling, feels like a tank (better than Mercedes). kickass brakes.

cheaper to maintain: not much difference, both offer decent service+warranty packages.
Best roadside assistance: Mercedes
best turn-around time: Mercedes
Safety: both should be same, psychologically BMW is more confidence inspiring.


I wanted to reply with a one-liner of "get yourself a bmw" but wanted to sound more legit so wrote a longer reply

Thanks for the advice mijnoirhammer67.

You are right in estimating my budget, although this has been stretched from 40l initially. Rear seat comfort doesn't affect me much, only 1 out of every 100 drives would have more than 2 people in the car.

What about front seat comfort?

I have driven the 530d (old model), but not these other two, will drive them both hopefully tomorrow.

The reason I am able to look at this range is due to the massive discounts on offer with the dealers. I don't think the new upcoming E-class or new upcoming 5-series would be anywhere close to this price range. So no use waiting for them.

I didn't mention any of the SUV's in my original comment as they don't appeal to me. They are not part of my consideration.

I am worried about your comment regarding the 530d's brakes, does the 520d also has this issue?

Also, I don't think I will be able to convince the wifey for a Volvo anytime soon. But i will lookout for the S90. However, being new I don't think they will offer any discounts on it.

Originally Posted by mijnoirhammer67

Well Mr Titan1999, you have quite a few options in that budget. You haven't specifically mentioned your budget but I'm guessing its around 50-55 lakhs showroom price. This is starting line executive sedan range and you have the luxury to choose from a lot of cars.
From the 520d vs E250d, I'd choose the 520d. I drive the 530d, and I simply love it. Though I would advise you to test drive these cars as this matters a lot. The war between Bimmer and Benz will go on forever, i feel Audi is losing it with FWD and mediocre engines in our market. So, what the 5 series makes for in driving pleasure against the E250 it loses out on rear seat comfort. I have gotten bored of the E class looks for a while now, plus the interiors don't feel so special. Rather dated too. If you can wait for the new E class, i would strongly advise you do that. The new E class is simply ahead of everything out there today. Even the new 5 is due, but that isn't until next year. But from what I've read about the reviews and TD's from friends, the new E class takes the cake. But once again, I urge you to take an extensive TD of these vehicles. Test driving them will help you understand what you want from your car better than anyone else around the world. Better yet, TD them back to back. Call 'em home and take 'em for a spin. If you do opt for the 5, go for the M-sport. The under thigh support extension will help in your long drives.

Now, from what you haven't mentioned. X3, Q5, GLC and XC60. All these are worth considering and are SUV's of course. Ive never driven any of them, but most people i know would take the X3 but whoever owns the XC60 just keeps on bragging how good it is. But once again, TD em. Now, the best bit is for later. You can get A3 convertible in that budget. Believe me, the car has a very good petrol engine underneath and should be considered. It'll thrill you everytime you drive it. As for THE best bit, Volvo S90.

The new VOLVO S90. A friend of mine owns it in the UK and i took it for a very brief ride and boy oh boy, it left an impression. It drove perfect. Immaculate and Ultimate were the words i used to describe it. It was the D5 4WD. It does have lesser power in numbers in comparison to my 530d, but never once was i left hungry for more. The biggest issue i have with the 530d is its braking. It just doesn't inspire confidence and i get the feeling one day it'll cost me dearly. But the S90, none of that. Easy-breezy all the way. Also, 5 has very poor back seat space but no such complains in the S90.

As for safety and maintenance, all these cars are very very safe. No questions there. But I've found out in the past 3 years, owning a BMW is cheaper than owning a Mercedes. Maybe the workshop where my Merc gets serviced is just bad and led by money-minded people, but I've considered selling my Mercs time and time again due to this issue. My father too shares the same belief and is selling them off one by one and in a few weeks time my garage will be filled by beamers. So completely your call here. As for service timings and all, in comparison my BMW's have taken 1 day to come from time to time. But the Mercs have come almost always within a day unless major issue. Id say its almost the same with Merc slightly pipping it here but this depends on the the capability of the workshop and their workload. Roadside assistance, I've only required it once ever. Sunday evening, damp and broken roads everywhere due to rainy season. My X5 car was running on the donut and even that gave in. Within one hour, a BMW technician was on site and within 110 mins exactly from my call, the car was being safely towed away. So once again, top marks here to BMW.

My preference with current-gen cars:
1. 520d, try stretching for the 530d and you won't be disappointed
2. Volvo XC60 and BMW X3
3. Merc E250d

My preference with new and due cars:
1. Volvo S90
2. Volco S90 once more
3. E class

As for the incident in 2013, brah thats lucky. Brakes failing on mountain roads normally end only one way but if you walked away alright then consider yourself extremely lucky and fortunate to have the bus in front to help bring your car to a stop. Rest be assured, all the above mentioned cars shouldn't give you much safety issues. In fact none at all, barring the odd incident. Happy hunting

Thanks Asit.

320D M-sport is only 7 lakhs cheaper OTR than 520D M-Sport, will be a travesty if I don't get the bigger brother. Almost everything is better in the 5-series.

Test drives will reveal more. Going to both BMW and Mercedes dealerships tomorrow.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

If you want something fun to drive then you should simply consider the 320d M-sport. A 5-series is best in the form of the 530d. 520d M-sport won't be as good as the 320d.

Asit