(K&N) Cotton Gauze Air filters help/freeflow == more dirt ?

zenx · 4th February 2006, 20:56

Was wondering if I should get a K&N for the City 1.3. Started reading up a bit.
Here's a few links I found that sound scary. I would not want to screw around with the engine for a few bhp - especially given the dust around here....

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/09/07/h...-filters-work/
http://offroadpakistan.com/bitsnpiec...rs_work_1.html
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylo...&NFilters.html

First hand looong term users' comments welcome. Basically :

a) do they remain as efective after a couple of washes ?
b) do the non-performance ones (drop in replacements) actually make a noticeable diff ?
c) has anyone faced engine/ecu/O2 sensor problems ?
d) apparently the effects are from a +ve performance change to none or even -ve. Whats experience for various people (honestly - pls dont just justify your spend

) - anyone tried this on a City ? 1.3 ?
e) if at all there is extra dust going into the engine (actually sounds logical) - how much and how much of an impact does it have abrasion wise ?
f) What other brands are available/good ?

and of course,
f) how much are they for the OHC ?

It seems like a *very* divided opinion out there from a simple google on it!

-------
some clarifications for K&N
http://www.partshp.com/KN.htm#1

zenx · 6th February 2006, 08:15

A guy who services bikes around here told me they had had negative experiences with K&N filters in the past - 'not ok for dusty Bangalore roads, fine on a track/elsewhere'. Nobody has a long term take on this ? Help/feedback would be really welcome before the decision is taken either way

n_aditya · 6th February 2006, 17:55

i've been using the K&N for not so long... just a few months now...

extreme dusty conditions mean driving off road and in rally conditions... so don't worry.... most of us dont use our daily drive cars for these kind of applications.... there is no cause for worry...

in the city ur filter may need cleaning once every 40k kms +/- 5k kms.... and i find the filter pretty effective in making the engine more responsive towards the throttle than the stock filters....

look at it this way... if the filter actually damaged any engine... someone would have sued the company.... these filters are very reliable and more like a fit it forget it type filter....

i suggest you get one installed and drive for a few kms... and then decide to buy... which you will do... btw i paid 4.5k for my OE replacement filter for the esteem... should be around the same price more or less couple of hundered rupees for ur car...

all the best....

adit1329 · 6th February 2006, 20:22

Well, I have been using K&N for 2 years in Bangalores dusty roads, and I have had no problems..
I have heard a few people complain, but it had arised from bad fitment

Kaizer Sozay · 6th February 2006, 22:44

I have a Stock K&N in my Zen for over a year now, never cleant its done over 15,000 kms in that period of time. I have not faced any problems. K&N Filters are simply awesome.

protege · 7th February 2006, 14:30

Using the K&N for the last 4 months. I had the OE fitment. K&N is a huge name in US. And believe me there are lots of dusty roads in US too. And if K&N performs like all these websites claim, there are no dearth of people suing K&N and make some quick buck. It's dynotested and scientifically proven. However there are lot of counter arguments too. There are other good viable competitors too. Pete is also selling one more air filter which costs half of K&N. The premium you pay in K&N is because of the brand name and trust they have gathered in these years.
However, I would say if you want to play safe with minimum care for the filter, go for the OE fitment. This is because for the universal filter, you need to add the custom air intake and protect the filters during monsoon or heavy flooding.
About my exp on K&N, I feel the low end improvement is not that noticeable. However, once the speedo touches 40.. it flies..and I have touched 155 (and consistently driven at 130-140) with it in a carb zen.. and FE on highway I got 19kmpl with much ease. On city I get 13, previously I was geting 12 and 17 on city and highway. I dont have the free flow setup.
Hope this answers your question.

Zappo · 7th February 2006, 14:38

I believe this is more targeted towards Tanveer... but anyone else in the know is also welcome to help. Has anyone tried K&N in Indica? If K&N is really as useful as it is made out to be and can work as well on diesel then Indica is definitely one car that can do with it.

By the way I always wonder, if it as easy as to plonk in a K&N filter to boot up the car's BHP then why do not most car companies do so at the onset?!!

Boom Shiva · 7th February 2006, 16:01

How extensive is the plumbing required for an FIPK? I'm trying to figure out if I can get it installed on my Optra without losing my warranty. In case I can't, what's the next best option?

nitrous · 7th February 2006, 16:17

Can someone tell how much difference in performance can be found in a Conical filter compared to a replacement K&N filter???

I'm in a dilemma about which one to use for my Ikon 1.3. I'm leaning more on the conical since its cheaper but, i'm scared about water entering my intake during the monsoons since the filter position is right behind the left-headlamp assembly.

zenx · 7th February 2006, 16:49

Thanks people - useful info. However, I have the same question as Zappo - why aren't car manufacturers OEMing this kind of a filter. To them it'll cost much lesser.
Protege, I assume you have a drop in replacement, not the universal filter ?
I'm really getting tempted to try it out for the City - just didnt want to risk the engine. Anyone in Bangalore have one I could try out to feel the diff ?

coloneljasi · 7th February 2006, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappo

I believe this is more targeted towards Tanveer... but anyone else in the know is also welcome to help. Has anyone tried K&N in Indica? If K&N is really as useful as it is made out to be and can work as well on diesel then Indica is definitely one car that can do with it.

By the way I always wonder, if it as easy as to plonk in a K&N filter to boot up the car's BHP then why do not most car companies do so at the onset?!!

I'd fitted a stock replacement filter on a friend's 05' Indica DLX V2 (N/a version) a few months ago.It made a considerable difference in low rpm.The car was very hard to drive in the city in lower gears without stalling a few times.Now it's much more civilised to drive.The diffference in higher speeds is not very noticable,save for the smoothness.

nitrous · 7th February 2006, 17:09

The easiest way to find if the filter is allowing dust inside is by removing the filter and running ur fingers through the intake pipe and see if u find dust in it.
Simple

Zappo · 7th February 2006, 17:11

Thats what ZenX. Everyone I talk to simply sings eulogies about K&N. I even talk to an accessory shop guy and he was also going bombastic about its greatness (understandable, he wanted to sell me one)!

And yet, I can never figure out that if the results are so outlandish (I have even heard about gains of 10-15bhp) why no manufacturer till date has used it as OEM! There has to be a catch somewhere. If plonking in a 4-5k thing could make such magical difference then why not do it? Until you posted those links I was scratching my head. Now I am plain sceptical. I think I need more info. I would hate it if after 30000 kms or so I am told that my engine is a wreak because the filter let in dirt and dust in.

I would like to know from someone who has used it over the past 2.5-3 years at least and covered over 30k kms with a K&N and is still laughing all the way.

Zappo · 7th February 2006, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloneljasi

I'd fitted a stock replacement filter on a friend's 05' Indica DLX V2 (N/a version) a few months ago.It made a considerable difference in low rpm.The car was very hard to drive in the city in lower gears without stalling a few times.Now it's much more civilised to drive.The diffference in higher speeds is not very noticable,save for the smoothness.

Whoa! You did?

Thats great. So you are saying it actually makes a difference. And it is a big one I take it? Its the low RPM difference that is more important. Although many K&N related sites seem to suggest that the noticeable difference is at higher RPMs. Funny! So what did you use? The stock replacement thing or the conical one, with maybe even the Induction Kit?

P.S. : Ok... I just re-read your post. Its the Stock replacement thing you used. That is safest I think. But is it really that useful? K&N seems to plump for the conical one, preferably with the induction kit.

speedsatya · 7th February 2006, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappo

I would like to know from someone who has used it over the past 2.5-3 years at least and covered over 30k kms with a K&N and is still laughing all the way.

i have been using since 4 years and have done 42k kms...and am still laughing

4th February 2006, 20:56	#1
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,161 Thanked: 158 Times View My Garage	(K&N) Cotton Gauze Air filters help/freeflow == more dirt ? Was wondering if I should get a K&N for the City 1.3. Started reading up a bit. Here's a few links I found that sound scary. I would not want to screw around with the engine for a few bhp - especially given the dust around here.... http://www.autoblog.com/2005/09/07/h...-filters-work/ http://offroadpakistan.com/bitsnpiec...rs_work_1.html http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylo...&NFilters.html First hand looong term users' comments welcome. Basically : a) do they remain as efective after a couple of washes ? b) do the non-performance ones (drop in replacements) actually make a noticeable diff ? c) has anyone faced engine/ecu/O2 sensor problems ? d) apparently the effects are from a +ve performance change to none or even -ve. Whats experience for various people (honestly - pls dont just justify your spend ) - anyone tried this on a City ? 1.3 ? e) if at all there is extra dust going into the engine (actually sounds logical) - how much and how much of an impact does it have abrasion wise ? f) What other brands are available/good ? and of course, f) how much are they for the OHC ? It seems like a very divided opinion out there from a simple google on it! ------- some clarifications for K&N http://www.partshp.com/KN.htm#1 Last edited by zenx : 4th February 2006 at 21:10.
	() Thanks

6th February 2006, 08:15	#2
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,161 Thanked: 158 Times View My Garage	A guy who services bikes around here told me they had had negative experiences with K&N filters in the past - 'not ok for dusty Bangalore roads, fine on a track/elsewhere'. Nobody has a long term take on this ? Help/feedback would be really welcome before the decision is taken either way
	() Thanks

6th February 2006, 17:55	#3
n_aditya Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Namma Bengaluru Posts: 5,348 Thanked: 3,684 Times View My Garage	i've been using the K&N for not so long... just a few months now... extreme dusty conditions mean driving off road and in rally conditions... so don't worry.... most of us dont use our daily drive cars for these kind of applications.... there is no cause for worry... in the city ur filter may need cleaning once every 40k kms +/- 5k kms.... and i find the filter pretty effective in making the engine more responsive towards the throttle than the stock filters.... look at it this way... if the filter actually damaged any engine... someone would have sued the company.... these filters are very reliable and more like a fit it forget it type filter.... i suggest you get one installed and drive for a few kms... and then decide to buy... which you will do... btw i paid 4.5k for my OE replacement filter for the esteem... should be around the same price more or less couple of hundered rupees for ur car... all the best....
	() Thanks

6th February 2006, 20:22	#4
adit1329 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 346 Thanked: 3 Times	Well, I have been using K&N for 2 years in Bangalores dusty roads, and I have had no problems.. I have heard a few people complain, but it had arised from bad fitment
	() Thanks

6th February 2006, 22:44	#5
Kaizer Sozay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 333 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	I have a Stock K&N in my Zen for over a year now, never cleant its done over 15,000 kms in that period of time. I have not faced any problems. K&N Filters are simply awesome.
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 14:30	#6
protege BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 51 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	Using the K&N for the last 4 months. I had the OE fitment. K&N is a huge name in US. And believe me there are lots of dusty roads in US too. And if K&N performs like all these websites claim, there are no dearth of people suing K&N and make some quick buck. It's dynotested and scientifically proven. However there are lot of counter arguments too. There are other good viable competitors too. Pete is also selling one more air filter which costs half of K&N. The premium you pay in K&N is because of the brand name and trust they have gathered in these years. However, I would say if you want to play safe with minimum care for the filter, go for the OE fitment. This is because for the universal filter, you need to add the custom air intake and protect the filters during monsoon or heavy flooding. About my exp on K&N, I feel the low end improvement is not that noticeable. However, once the speedo touches 40.. it flies..and I have touched 155 (and consistently driven at 130-140) with it in a carb zen.. and FE on highway I got 19kmpl with much ease. On city I get 13, previously I was geting 12 and 17 on city and highway. I dont have the free flow setup. Hope this answers your question.
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 14:38	#7
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,922 Thanked: 2,699 Times	I believe this is more targeted towards Tanveer... but anyone else in the know is also welcome to help. Has anyone tried K&N in Indica? If K&N is really as useful as it is made out to be and can work as well on diesel then Indica is definitely one car that can do with it. By the way I always wonder, if it as easy as to plonk in a K&N filter to boot up the car's BHP then why do not most car companies do so at the onset?!!
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 16:01	#8
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	How extensive is the plumbing required for an FIPK? I'm trying to figure out if I can get it installed on my Optra without losing my warranty. In case I can't, what's the next best option?
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 16:17	#9
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Can someone tell how much difference in performance can be found in a Conical filter compared to a replacement K&N filter??? I'm in a dilemma about which one to use for my Ikon 1.3. I'm leaning more on the conical since its cheaper but, i'm scared about water entering my intake during the monsoons since the filter position is right behind the left-headlamp assembly.
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 16:49	#10
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,161 Thanked: 158 Times View My Garage	Thanks people - useful info. However, I have the same question as Zappo - why aren't car manufacturers OEMing this kind of a filter. To them it'll cost much lesser. Protege, I assume you have a drop in replacement, not the universal filter ? I'm really getting tempted to try it out for the City - just didnt want to risk the engine. Anyone in Bangalore have one I could try out to feel the diff ?
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 17:09	#12
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	The easiest way to find if the filter is allowing dust inside is by removing the filter and running ur fingers through the intake pipe and see if u find dust in it. Simple
	() Thanks

7th February 2006, 17:11	#13
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,922 Thanked: 2,699 Times	Thats what ZenX. Everyone I talk to simply sings eulogies about K&N. I even talk to an accessory shop guy and he was also going bombastic about its greatness (understandable, he wanted to sell me one)! And yet, I can never figure out that if the results are so outlandish (I have even heard about gains of 10-15bhp) why no manufacturer till date has used it as OEM! There has to be a catch somewhere. If plonking in a 4-5k thing could make such magical difference then why not do it? Until you posted those links I was scratching my head. Now I am plain sceptical. I think I need more info. I would hate it if after 30000 kms or so I am told that my engine is a wreak because the filter let in dirt and dust in. I would like to know from someone who has used it over the past 2.5-3 years at least and covered over 30k kms with a K&N and is still laughing all the way.
	() Thanks