[neon]

Originally Posted by sapl

It is certainly possible to swap the engine. Whether the effort is worth it or not is a call you have to take. In fact at this point of time we have a customers Gypsy for a similar engine swap.

However, it should be remembered that the Gypsy MPFI engine and the Esteem MPFI engine have some subtle differences:


For example,
Esteem has a crank sensor, Gypsy does not.
Gypsy Cam sensor is different from Esteem's.
Gypsy cam is different from Esteem, as it has a gear drive for the CAM sensor.
The sump of the engines are different.
The oil take up pipe is different.
Inlet manifold is also different.
The wiring looms are different

Keeping all this in mind, you have to take a call as to whether this is worth it or not !

@kutlee - yes, running close to 1 bar boost. Need to control it at around 0.5 bar.

sapl man I have to thankyou a lot for all this info, well I for now decided to get a king (mpfi if possible), still looking for one, and have a friend here who has a 413W with him and wants to do some mods on it, can you tell me where I can get them done ?? any place in bangalore or coimbator with a dyno is also needed for me, thanks mate

[sapl]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Your choice of compromises (as is true of all engineering), but think safety (of product) should get a lot of weightage.

Well - we have done enough math and design on the layout. If you could tell me how you think that this layout compromises on safety, I would be happy to elaborate !

Originally Posted by neon

...have a friend here who has a 413W with him and wants to do some mods on it, can you tell me where I can get them done ?? any place in bangalore or coimbator with a dyno is also needed for me, thanks mate

Well there are many places that could do the mods. However, if you are looking for a place with a dyno, there are only 3 possibilities in India. As far as Coimbatore/Bangalore goes, we have a dyno in Coimbatore and Red Rooster has a dyno at Bangalore. I am not aware of any other dyno in operation in this region.

Cheers

[james]

Originally Posted by sapl

Very interesting to see the underestimating public see the Gypsy shoot past - especially some bikers and cars !

OT: I bet you are having a ball driving around in the TC gypsy. The BOV just adds to the excitement!

[neon]

Originally Posted by sapl

Well - we have done enough math and design on the layout. If you could tell me how you think that this layout compromises on safety, I would be happy to elaborate !



Well there are many places that could do the mods. However, if you are looking for a place with a dyno, there are only 3 possibilities in India. As far as Coimbatore/Bangalore goes, we have a dyno in Coimbatore and Red Rooster has a dyno at Bangalore. I am not aware of any other dyno in operation in this region.

Cheers

sapl my friend is at Coimbatore now and he wants it done there, I ll tell him to get to you directly in here, and can you tell me the lowest amount on which I could TC a gypsy or an esteem ? Im not looking for a very high boost (may b 30 bhp) and want to keep it reliable, once I get my money arranged then im off to TC my vehicle, b4 that I need a rough figure. thanx bro

[Sutripta]

Hi,
Guess we have different philosophies. So the same figures from

Originally Posted by sapl

Well - we have done enough math and design on the layout.

will be interpreted differently!

BTW, what exactly has been calculated? (I don't mean the actual values/ figures)

Regards
Sutripta

[sapl]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Hi,
Guess we have different philosophies. So the same figures ....
will be interpreted differently!

BTW, what exactly has been calculated? (I don't mean the actual values/ figures)

Regards
Sutripta

I agree theoretical interpretations are likely to vary. (having been in the academia for nearly 2 decades)

Interpretations are fine as long as we are just dabbling in a theoretical discussion, but we cannot allow a car on the street to function at the mercy of such academic discussions - lives are at stake.

We strictly follow a philosophy of "to measure is to know" - and the interpretations get validated and there is little scope for ambiguity !

While I do not intend to open up our entire design process, I will briefly mention the points on the specific topic (safety as a consequence of the placement of the fuel injector) you had raised.

The following have been calculated and validated by measurement:

1. Volume of air passage between turbo & intercooler, intercooler, between intercooler & blow off valve, between blowoff valve & injector location, between injector location & throttle body, and the manifold itself.

2. Maximum air pressure at Turbo outlet, Intercooler outlet

3. Fuel flow through the injector under various conditions.

Based on these, the following have been derived:

1. The pressure & flow of air and air fuel mixture has been calculated at different points on the passage.

2. Scenarios of engine cutoff and the impact on the induction system have been evaluated.

Worst case scenario envisages all the following happening simultaneously:

1. Severe impact resulting in intake pipe completely rupturing near the throttle body
2. Engine stalling mid cycle and coming to a stop within half a revolution
3. Throttle snapped shut within half a revolution of the engine at 6000 rpm (when maximum fuel flow takes place)
4. Turbo stalls instantaneously
5. Clutch completely disengaged instantaneously (so engine is not driven by the drive train)

In this worst case scenario, fuel release into the atmosphere has been calculated. For your information, this figure is 0.0216667 cc (i.e. approximately 22 microlitres of fuel).

Without the rupture of the intake pipe, the quantity of fuel that can be released to the atmosphere is 0.002579 (approx 2.6 microlitres)

Whether this poses a credible threat to safety is open to debate (and interpretations!).

Of course, under such a scenario, the probablity of the fuel pipe / rail rupturing and directly spewing fuel is possibly a thousand times higher. We have not done much to mitigate this as we are using stock fuel piping. However, the fuel pipe leading to the injector has been secured using a proper clamp to prevent it from accidentally rubbing and getting chaffed or damaged.

Cheers

[sapl]

Originally Posted by neon

sapl my friend is at Coimbatore now and he wants it done there, I ll tell him to get to you directly in here, and can you tell me the lowest amount on which I could TC a gypsy or an esteem ? Im not looking for a very high boost (may b 30 bhp) and want to keep it reliable, once I get my money arranged then im off to TC my vehicle, b4 that I need a rough figure. thanx bro

Hi

The forum is not the appropriate place to discuss commercial matters. I suggest you contact me by a private message and I can give you the details.

Your friend is welcome to come and see the Gypsy that we have just done (the one that is featured in this thread).

Cheers

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by sapl

The following have been calculated and validated by measurement:

1. Volume of air passage between turbo & intercooler, intercooler, between intercooler & blow off valve, between blowoff valve & injector location, between injector location & throttle body, and the manifold itself.

2. Maximum air pressure at Turbo outlet, Intercooler outlet

3. Fuel flow through the injector under various conditions.

Based on these, the following have been derived:

1. The pressure & flow of air and air fuel mixture has been calculated at different points on the passage.

2. Scenarios of engine cutoff and the impact on the induction system have been evaluated.

Worst case scenario envisages all the following happening simultaneously:

1. Severe impact resulting in intake pipe completely rupturing near the throttle body
2. Engine stalling mid cycle and coming to a stop within half a revolution
3. Throttle snapped shut within half a revolution of the engine at 6000 rpm (when maximum fuel flow takes place)
4. Turbo stalls instantaneously
5. Clutch completely disengaged instantaneously (so engine is not driven by the drive train)

In this worst case scenario, fuel release into the atmosphere has been calculated. For your information, this figure is 0.0216667 cc (i.e. approximately 22 microlitres of fuel).

Without the rupture of the intake pipe, the quantity of fuel that can be released to the atmosphere is 0.002579 (approx 2.6 microlitres)

Whether this poses a credible threat to safety is open to debate (and interpretations!).

Of course, under such a scenario, the probablity of the fuel pipe / rail rupturing and directly spewing fuel is possibly a thousand times higher. We have not done much to mitigate this as we are using stock fuel piping. However, the fuel pipe leading to the injector has been secured using a proper clamp to prevent it from accidentally rubbing and getting chaffed or damaged.

Cheers

OT. Comprehensive. All bases covered.
How well does the estimated/ actual temperatures at various points correlate? (Though you have not mentioned it, I assume it is calculated and validated)

but we cannot allow a car on the street to function at the mercy of such academic discussions - lives are at stake.

Methinks you have not read what I said in full. Which is

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Your choice of compromises (as is true of all engineering), but think safety (of product) should get a lot of weightage.

Product/ plant, as in different from personnel!
And in that regard, original thought process/ concern remains.

Regards
Sutripta

[4x4addict]

Adding some pics of the finished gypsy and the dyno chart. We have capped the engine at 140 bhp @ 6500 rpm and 175 Nm Torque @ 5500 RPM. But the blow of valve is not too happy about this.

[1self]

That's some pretty awesome numbers man! Congrats! The 5th injector helps keep the intake temperatures low.

Only problem I see is that in Chennai traffic the intercooler is going to heat soak like crazy.

[Sankar]

Awesome numbers and the build looks clean and thorough. I feel the air inlet to turbo could've been a bit better, it looks a bit restrictive or is it because of the angle of the shot.
But awesome build, Congrats!

[4x4addict]

Hi Guys, Just want to clarify that this is my relative's gypsy and not mine. The work was done in Autozone coimbatore. I am just helping on/off road trials etc.

@Sankar: We have to work with the avl space/dimension of the engine. But I don't think it is restricted as it is pretty much a straight piple.

@1self: I will need to test in it all conditions. When you are stuck in city traffic, typically you are in low rpm so I don't see why the engine should heat up more than normal running temperature in the same city.

[1eighty]

This have to be my most favorite Gypsy Mod yet....and the cleanest cut intercooler scoop I have ever seen. I was following the build on fb, but here I got to know the painstaking work that went behind the Turbo.

[sapl]

Originally Posted by 1self

That's some pretty awesome numbers man! Congrats! The 5th injector helps keep the intake temperatures low.

Only problem I see is that in Chennai traffic the intercooler is going to heat soak like crazy.

There is an insulating sheet between the intercooler and the engine to minimise the effects of heat soak. However, I do agree that if you are in bumper to bumper traffic for an extended period, heat soak could occur.

Also await details of our Supercharger build - work is under progress.

[nim_peter]

Excellent build! Congrats on the successful completion. A couple of queries though. The Dyno shows BHP figures, is there a separate procedure for this? I've never seen a dyno run, but read that it gives only the WHP, do we know the transmission loss?

Also could see the old 140 kmph speedo, I'm sure it can be pushed beyond that.