[Abhishekt]

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

TOT after 15000km.
=======
Fifth gear for national highways once a month which means my 5th gear cog would be in pristine condition.

Thanks drpullockaran for enlightenment

Has anyone tried TOT on Scorpio Intellihybrid? I am just apprehensive about the intellihybrid part after remap. I know I can directly communicate with the remap guys but I am looking for the first hand experience by any Team-BHP member.

[AliAbdullah]

As I reported earlier that i had given the ECU back to racedynamics on 1st of feb and got it back of 6th feb. I was in constant touch with Prashant and he told me that the new map is somewhere in between P1 and P2 in terms of performance. From 6th of feb to 21 st of feb Ii have driven around 1000 km on the DT Box purely in the city and not on the highway and have also calculated to actual fuel efficiency number of 23.013 Kmpl which is simple mind blowing considering the performance. I dont drive like a complete hooligan but i am no slouch either and the FE figures are very surprising (937.1 Km in 40.72 Litres of diesel calculated by tank-full method) This number is in contrast with the earlier post by someone which said that the fuel efficienct number shown in the MID is false and higher than actual fuel efficiency because the FE figure shown by the computer is 21.7 kmpl, lower than actual. Maybe the claim is true for a complete Remap, but not in my case.

coming to the Remap, its what it is, More power, More torque and surprisingly more mileage which doesn't matter to me that much but its good to have. Major difference is in the off-boost performance where the torque now arrives from as low as 1600 RPM and car is a joy to drive in the city. I am always in a gear higher than the stock now and thats what i think gave me the FE. Torque arrives in a linear manner from 1600 to 2000 RPM and then gives a strong meaty shove from 2000 RPM onwards. The shove in third gear is what it was in second gear on stock map, so on and so forth. Third gear is properly quick now. Going by claimed numbers, the FE on stock map was 19.2 KMPL and its increased to 23.0 which is a difference of 19.79 percent, almost what RaceDynamics claim 20 percent. the power and torque can be estimated at 97 bhp and 245 Nm going by a 30 percent increase which is very realistic. Overall i couldnt ask for more for my 10249 rs is spent on the Race Dynamics Lite Box. Its the best upgrade to my car and worth each and every penny.

I will make a round trip to delhi of around 1200 Km just before Holi and will find the actual FE on Highway at that time. Will post Further.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by AliAbdullah

This number is in contrast with the earlier post by someone which said that the fuel efficienct number shown in the MID is false and higher than actual fuel efficiency because the FE figure shown by the computer is 21.7 kmpl, lower than actual. Maybe the claim is true for a complete Remap, but not in my case.

Sorry to be blunt, but you have to have made a mistake in your fuel efficiency calculations if the MID and tank full readings match up for you. Or the MID may have been reset during the middle of the tank.

You can check with RD guys themselves about the veracity of MID reported FE numbers with a tuning box, if you don't trust my word, or the technical explanation behind it.

Anyway, I think the next tank full readings should clear this right up.

[AliAbdullah]

Originally Posted by d3mon

Sorry to be blunt, but you have to have made a mistake in your fuel efficiency calculations if the MID and tank full readings match up for you. Or the MID may have been reset during the middle of the tank.

You can check with RD guys themselves about the veracity of MID reported FE numbers with a tuning box, if you don't trust my word, or the technical explanation behind it.

Anyway, I think the next tank full readings should clear this right up.

I am absolutely certain that there has been no error while calculating the fuel efficiency figures, neither was the battery disconnected at any point while the FE was calculated, the results are accurate and thats what had me by surprise because technically this should not be the case at all. What you are saying is theoretically correct but in my case did not happen in the real world. Only noteworthy thing is that the AC was not turned off during the whole of the 1000 km but then the FE of 19.2 KMPL on stock map was also with AC turned off. These results will be verified the next time and to be sure i am attaching the pictures of current readings which can be verified on the next tank-full. Since the tank full i have driven 12.6 km and the total distance traveled till now is 25062 km.

I had ordered a LiquiMoly Injector cleaner and planned to add it in this tank-full but i wont be doing that now to keep the results accurate.

[CAPTAIN REX]

Originally Posted by CAPTAIN REX

After installing the box or re tuning the ECU, the MID will not show the actual FE figures. As d3mon mentioned, the only way is to do a 'tankful to tankful' and calculate the FE.
I have been using the RD tuning box on the TUV 3OO for quite some time now, and it is always on the P2 mode. When ever I fill up (tank full), the DTE shows something close to 900 km. With a 60 liter fuel tank, that relates to 15 kmpl, while in reality, the FE I get is in the range of 11 to 12 kmpl.

Originally Posted by d3mon

Sorry to be blunt, but you have to have made a mistake in your fuel efficiency calculations if the MID and tank full readings match up for you. Or the MID may have been reset during the middle of the tank.

You can check with RD guys themselves about the veracity of MID reported FE numbers with a tuning box, if you don't trust my word, or the technical explanation behind it.

Anyway, I think the next tank full readings should clear this right up.

Further to my earlier post, below are 2 snaps.

The first one is after driving with the box on P1 mode, and when the tank has been topped up till the dispenser auto cuts off.
The DTE shows 800 km.

The second one is after driving 66 km, and no further filling of fuel.
The DTE shows 900 km. .
So I wonder how AliAbdullah gets his figures.

1. Below after driving on P1 and then filling the tank


2. Below after driving on P2 for 66 km after the above photo.


All driving were within the city, and in same conditions. So no questions about the driving conditions

[AliAbdullah]

I finally get time to post all the data i have collected since my last post. All the numbers i am posting are accurate and in no way have been tampered or falsified. the first set of data is for city driving where my car covered 947.4 km completely in the city with AC off the whole time and took exactly 41 liters of diesel to drive the distance. i am also attaching pic of the pump reading itself to be accurate. This comes out to an average of 23.1 KMPL which is consistent with last reading on the tankful. I drive with a light foot in the city, Up-shifting at around 1800 RPM and slotting in 5th gear early. Also on the last tankful, car was showing a range of 890 km but it exceeded that. This is based on the cars trip computer reading which is based on the speedometer reading. during this run i also used a GPS Based logger which measures the distance using True GPS speed which came out to be only 904.8 and an average of 22 KMPL. This was expected since the GPS speed is lower than the speedometer speed. Hence the lower distance traveled.

After this trip on tankful in the city, i went on a trip from Lucknow to Delhi on the newly constructed Agra Lucknow Expressway and then to Yamuna Expressway to Noida. I calculated the results of this trip too and the changes were unbelievable. Distance traveled was only 557 km and took in 37.25 liters of diesel returning a disappointing average of just 14.95 kmpl
There are many reasons for this the biggest one is the speed. Out of the 557 km travelled, 535 of them were on the highway at speed that i should not have done (above 150 to 160 all the way) and a rpm range of 3100 to 3400 RPM in fifth gear from the start till the exit of Yamuna Expressway onto Taj Expressway. took 4 hours and 10 minutes to reach from my home in lucknow to my aunts home in noida with an average speed of 128.4 KMPH. only thing i can say in my defense is that there was absolutely no-one and i mean no one including another car, human, dogs, cows, any other sort of animal, restroom, restaurant, or even a single petrol station for 350 km straight. Other reason is the liqui moly diesel injector cleaner (250 ml) i put into my tank of 42 liters which had to be used for a total of 70 liters of diesel. its was only later when i read the instructions i realized i had over used the additive. I think that the difference on the average comes down to

1) the very high speed and high RPM at which i was driving,
2) over use of the injector cleaner additive
3) Car completely packed with luggage of at least 230 Kg plus one passenger.

I regret all this overenthusiastic driving now, It cost me around 1800 rs extra in diesel, and a burnt clutch. Its when i drove the car the same evening i realized that the clutch was absolutely shot. The engine would rev from 1400 to 2000 rpm normally after which it slips all the way to 2600 rpm and stays there until the wheel speed increased and then pulls ahead. The turbo kick and torque surge is gone and it feels like a naturally aspirated car to drive, the clutch slip is appalling. I had to drive back to Lucknow on the same clutch but at lower speeds of around 120 kmph where the car returned just a hair above 19 kmpl. I will be changing the clutch soon enough where i will post the pictures of how the clutch is right now. I believe that its only the clutch plate which will be replaced since there is no juddering sound from the clutch and the clutch pedal travel is the same on engaging and disengaging so no need to replace the pressure plate and the release bearing. i have absolutely no idea how much torque the engine is making since the map in the DieselTronic lite is neither P1 nor P2 but as of now its too much for stock clutch plate to handle which is rated at 190 nm, 200 nm tops. The clutch never gave a hint of going off in the city at any time since i normally drive alone and there is not much load to pull ahead. but out on the highway clutch has to pull ahead extra 300 kg at very high speed for a very long time. i will replace to a stock OEM clutch plate and no aftermarket performance clutch, ill just drive more carefully.

All that aside i have also ordered a mechanical boost gauge from aliexpress to check if there is any difference in the boost pressure from stock. Gauge will arrive in 20 days time so thats 20 days for finding out how to install it DIY. if anyone could suggest me the pressure source or hose in the intake manifold where i can attach the t joint and run the boost hose, it would be great.

[Dr.Naren]

Race Dynamics dual channel box is a very good product and gains are almost same as remap or at times even better. I had driven few cars with dual channel box and power delivery was very good if compared with single channel box. I was seriously considering RD dual channel box for my S-Cross, but ultimately ended up with remap.

Autocar India had tested RD dual channel box on S-Cross 1.6 and the review was positive.

V Box 0-100 (Autocar)

Stock : 11.5
RD dual channel box : 9.9

There was 1.6 seconds gain.

V Box 0-100 (My runs)

Stock : 11.26
Post remap : 9.73

There was 1.53 second gain. I was under the assumption that remap would be always more powerful. Race Dynamics tune the box on their dyno before releasing to public. So I enquired with RD, if they have dyno graph for stock 1.6 S-Cross. Damodar said they have done the runs on both stock and with RD dual channel box. I was very interested to dyno my remapped S-Cross. 0-100 timing of RD box and TOT remap was neck to neck. I wanted to see the dyno graph comparo too.

RD shared the dyno runs of both stock and with RD box. I felt the gains are lower and also overall figures are much lower than Maruti claimed. Anyways, it's good enough for comparo. I went to RD and dynoed my remapped S-Cross. I compared with the stock graph and gains were little lesser compared to RD box.

Conclusion : RD dual channel was slightly more powerful and even faster on V Box compared to remapped S-Cross. I had shared the dyno run of stock vs remap on another thread. I will post the dyno graphs comparo of RD dual channel vs remap here.




Note :

1. I am not satisfied with the numbers. I think it's very less than Maruti claimed. But the graph is good enough to compare RD box vs remap.

2. I am planning to do a dyno run at RRP to know the real figures as it's a hub dyno and could be loaded.


Also, I had come across few posts by D BHPIAN Crazy Driver. He had compared his Punto with RD dual channel box vs his friends Punto with TOT remap. Even here, the box had better numbers. I would have definitely picked up RD dual channel box for my S-Cross if someone else had done this tests before me . I went with TOT remap only because of EGR delete advantage and sadly they were not able to do it. Another tuner has assured me that they have EGR delete and slightly more powerful map. Anyways, if they are not able to do it.. I will seriously consider reverting back to stock map and buy RD dual channel box. As per Karthik, the dyno run is done on street tune of RD box and it could be further tweaked as per customer requirements

[AliAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Race Dynamics dual channel box is a very good product and gains are almost same as remap or at times even better. I had driven few cars with dual channel box and power delivery was very good if compared with single channel box. ...

That is a very interesting development. It just shows how much Tuning, Research and Development and testing was done by racedynamics to make the DieselTronic this good. I am happy now to go with dieselTronic instead a full blown remap, guys at racedynamics are true professionals and know what they are doing.

The biggest surprise is the dyno numbers for power and torque figures which are truly disappointing. even with a maximum 10 percent transmission and drive-train loss for a front wheel drive car, the numbers are no where near the claimed power and torque figures that maruti claims at the crank. very strange.

I want to ask another thing that has the TOT remap or the RD box have any effect on clutch in your case ?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by AliAbdullah

That is a very interesting development. It just shows how much Tuning, Research and Development and testing was done by racedynamics to make the DieselTronic this good. I am happy now to go with dieselTronic instead a full blown remap, guys at racedynamics are true professionals and know what they are doing.

True that. It's good to see an Indian firm put in lot of effort to deliver good products. Also, don't get it wrong like even single channel box is as good as remap. A single channel box has limitations and power delivery is not as good as dual channel box. I have used both RD single channel box and TOT remap in my Grand I10. Here, TOT remap is better by good margin.

The biggest surprise is the dyno numbers for power and torque figures which are truly disappointing. even with a maximum 10 percent transmission and drive-train loss for a front wheel drive car, the numbers are no where near the claimed power and torque figures that maruti claims at the crank. very strange.

Yes, I am not satisfied with the numbers. Transmission loss couldn't be so much. Anyways, I had asked RD for wheel output with TCF 1.0. I think the corrected crank output would give better / realistic numbers.

I want to ask another thing that has the TOT remap or the RD box have any effect on clutch in your case ?

I have not faced any issues with the clutch, be it TOT remap or RD box. But, my SX4 diesel running with TOT remap has minor gearbox problems. I cannot say it's due to high torque post remap as the synchronisers issue is a common complaint in SX4. Maruti has recommended lower gear synchronisers change along with clutch plate.

[fangface]

Any s-cross 1.3 owners who have used the dual channel box? What is your feedback on the overall performance?

I am picking up a 1.3 zeta soon and installing the tuning box is one of the upgrades I am planning for sooner rather than later

[Sankar]

There is a thread of Dualchannel box here with dyno graphs tested on a Punto 90HP compared against another Punto 90HP with remap which should give you a fair idea of how the box would perform on 1.3 SCross.

I am selling my Dualchannel RD box (Crysta 2.8). Nothing wrong with the RD box but I am upgrading to a more advanced piggyback, a first here in India on GDFTV engine.

[arjithin]

Originally Posted by fangface

Any s-cross 1.3 owners who have used the dual channel box? What is your feedback on the overall performance?

I am picking up a 1.3 zeta soon and installing the tuning box is one of the upgrades I am planning for sooner rather than later

It shouldnt be very different from the other Suzuki VGT 1.3 experiences mentioned in this thread.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by fangface

Any s-cross 1.3 owners who have used the dual channel box? What is your feedback on the overall performance?

I am picking up a 1.3 zeta soon and installing the tuning box is one of the upgrades I am planning for sooner rather than later

Dual channel box from Race Dynamics is very good. The gains are as good as a remap. But in case of Punto 90 HP (same engine as your S-Cross) and 1.6 S-Cross.. RD dual channel box had better numbers than Tune O Tronics remap on Dyno.

I see that you are located in Bangalore. Please do visit RD head office in Bangalore and take a trial of the box.

Cheers!!

[r_devakumar]

I have diestronices in my Figo TDCI for around 4 years now. The remote battery dies now. I have opened the remote and found the battery specs is 27A, 12V. I could find the items available online at Amazon / Flipkart. Will they be available in local electrical / electronics stores?

[AliAbdullah]

I always plan to always upgrade my car, sometime with performance parts, sometimes with just show off parts. Since the last upgrade of DieselTronic lite, my happiness was short-lived since I quickly burned through the stock clutch in just 4000 something km with DieselTronic and have not replaced it still. I also have to send the car to service and replace the clutch which is going to cost me quite a lot of money so it was time for a showoff upgrade.

I ordered a Mechanical boost gauge from aliexpress around 12 dollars or 860 rs using standard china post shipping. Thanks to my poor luck, that package never cleared customs in kolkata but nevertheless I got a full refund. I again ordered another boost gauge this time a electronic one using aliexpress shipping and got it delivered in less than 15 days. Even considering what it is, it didnt cost much. Around 25 dollars including shipping or 1600 something rupee. Its important to know that the same electronic boost gauge is available for upwards of 6000 rs on ebay. The difference between mechanical and electronic boost gauge apart from the analog and digital display is that the electronic boost gauge comes with a boost sensor which measures the boost and sends the signal to the display inside the car which then displays it on screen. According to my knowledge the sensor measures the resistance difference according the the boost and sends out a appropriate voltage signal which is interpreted by the display module and flashed n the screen. The mechanical one on the other hand has the sensor inside the display unit. This means that the vacuum line has to be routed from the turbo all the way into the cabin into the display whereas in the electronic one it goes only to the sensor which can be located near the turbo itself.

The gauge came up with a installation diagram and wiring diagram which was pretty simple. We bolted the sensor very close to the turbo and vaccum line. I wanted to do that since the shorter the vacuum line the less will be the latency in the measurement. It came with a filter which we initially installed but removed later since it was making a difference or 1 to 2 pounds in the reading. I am a noob in wiring so I took the help of my mechanic Daini who does all sort of works but even this was a first for him. There are just not many car enthusiasts in Lucknow I guess. The vacuum line was taped in using the t joint. In swift diesel there is a line just on the compressor side on the turbo housing which goes somewhere I dont know where exactly will have to look into it. we tapped in that line between the compressor housing and the inter-cooler. And routed it to the sensor bolted very close on the engine bay. Next was wiring which we fist tried to do as instructed by the manual. The sensor wiring was pretty simple it has only one live wire connected to the auxiliary power, one ground, and one green wire to send the reading to the display. But the display unit has 5 wires in total. One live wire connected to the auxiliary power, black for ground, green for receiving the data, orange to be connected to the headlight switch and white to be connected to engine auxiliary power. All the wiring was done from the console itself which houses the speedometer. Since i am a noob so i gave it all to Daini to do the wiring which he did according to the instructions but somehow it didnt word and the display had no power. So he wired it as he understood which I dont know how and voila it worked.

I have done short trips only in the city of around 100km with the boost gauge and the boost readings i guess are completely dependent on the throttle input. The boost is pretty low in first and second gear but increase considerably in 3rd to 5th. I have around 6 to 11 pounds of boost in 3rd gear between 1700 to 2000 rpm, around 10 to 14 pounds in 4th gear at 2000 rpm. there is at least 6 pounds of boost available in 3rd to 5th gear below 1800 rpm depending on the throttle position. I have not gone wide open throttle till now but I guess it will peak out at 17 psi in fifth. I will report further while on a highway about peak boost but there is a lot of variation in the readings and most of them depend on throttle position. At part throttle there may be just 3 pounds boost at 2000 in 3rd gear but at half or more throttle input it goes up all the way to 12 13. I have seen 14 Psi at 2200 rpm too in 4th.

Apart from show off I wanted to know if Dieseltronic Lite could change the boost pressure somehow which I will verify from the service center and report later. This was supposed to be just a gimmick but in reality it shows a lot of whats going on the the engine instantaneously and is proving to be a lot helpful for a geek like me. After this i have also ordered a digital Tachometer which i will place right next to the boost gauge to see the variation with RPM. I am also thinking of sourcing a gauge which shows my throttle position if thats even possible. Overall very happy with this install. I know the bracket holding the gauge is not the best job, Its just some double-sided tape since I didnt want to drill anywhere. I have order a twin gauge pod also for holding both the boost gauge an tachometer.

Its a fairly cheap install only 25 dollars. I have no idea what should be the labor cost for this job since I didnt pay him anything. It took around 2 hours to do it completely. Also to note is the vacuum hose that came with the box was very poor quality so we replaced it with better quality hose.

I know that the reading are not accurate since the sensor in in between the turbo and the inter-cooler, so there will be a bit of loss in boost in the inter-cooler before reaching the manifold. Its a bit of a distraction also since now I am watching the gauge numbers and trying to max it out at every possible time and then there is DieselTronic working its magic shoving me into the driving seat from 2000 to 4000 RPM. Just the little pleasures of life, impossible to put a price on.