[graaja]

Originally Posted by Darth Sid

Yes, the high voltage is on the bulb side but it does translate into that high current spike on the ballast's input side. I have never used an oscilloscope...

Originally Posted by sgiitk

The high voltage surge is on the bulb side, and does no necessarily reflect on the LT side. 15-20 amps for a few ms (max) hurts nobody...

While looking at the effect of peak current on the original wiring and ballast performance, there are a few questions that need to be answered..

1. How much is the surge current and how much time does it last?
2. What is the reaction time of the fuse? Will the fuse blow due to the peak current?
3. How much voltage drop (I*R drop) the resistance of the wire introduces during startup. Say the original wiring is designed with the peak current of the halogen lamp in mind, if the peak current of the HID ballast is 2x or 3x the peak current of the halogen lamp, this will definitely translate into a dip in voltage at the input of the ballast. Will the resultant voltage be still above the minimum operating voltage of the ballast?
4. Will this surge current result in deterioration of the cable? The parameter we need to look for is the (I^2 * R) heat produced on the cable due to this surge current.

For #1 and #2, here is an article on an experiment someone conducted on the peak currents of a HID setup.

HID Startup current: Stock 55 watt, DDM 55 watt, HID50 50 watt

This is discussed in the below forum thread.

HID Startup Current Draw

Note: This forum required to enter a captcha to view the thread.

The article concludes that the peak current lasts less than 250ms so that the fuse does not react to this fast pulse. I would also look at the data sheet of the fuse to understand it's peak current handling capability.

The results are for a particular ballast setup, and can vary a lot for other setups. But the concept remains the same.

For #3, the correct way to find out the IR drop would be to put an oscilloscope at the ballast's 12V input and measure the dip in voltage. A more crude method is to just see if the lamps fire. If they light up fine, then we can conclude that the IR drop does not take the voltage below the ballast's operating voltage. However, this can also corner case situations (I have listed these later) which may result in the lamps not lighting up.

For #4, I do not think the 250ms surge will result in enough temperature rise to be of concern.

My conclusion: A HID system would work out of the existing wiring most of the time. However, there are a few corner case conditions which may result in failure.

• If the ballast is not very efficient and results in a higher peak current for a longer period of time, there is a chance of blowing the fuse.
• If the ballast is not efficient and draws high peak current and at the same time the original wiring uses a thinner wire not designed for such a peak current, this will increase the IR drop in the conductor, resulting in the input voltage of the ballast going below its minimum operating voltage and the lights would not glow. Look at post #4 where the failure indicates this situation.
• If the battery is partially charged, and the IR drop due to the peak current results in the voltage at the ballast going below its minimum voltage, the lights would not light up. This will be applicable for leaving home light function where the lights turn on before the engine is on. Once the engine is running and battery voltage is above 13, this will not be a problem.

Considering the above corner case situations, I would use a relay circuit as a best practice to guarantee system operation under all circumstances.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by graaja

Considering the above corner case situations, I would use a relay circuit as a best practice to guarantee system operation under all circumstances.

I do not think any automotive wiring is rated much below 10A.

If you add a relay what is the frequency of relay failure (an additional component to go bad). If you want to add a relay go ahead, I think it is not needed, and I have put my money where my mouth is. I still have the relay and wiring I bought with my HIDs!! I am only speaking with my 42 years experience meddling with cars.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I do not think any automotive wiring is rated much below 10A.

If you add a relay what is the frequency of relay failure (an additional component to go bad). If you want to add a relay go ahead, I think it is not needed, and I have put my money where my mouth is. I still have the relay and wiring I bought with my HIDs!! I am only speaking with my 42 years experience meddling with cars.

Yes. I do have a relay circuit in my car. Anyways, I was just analyzing the problem as it was interesting.

[fuzail]

Dear Gurus
I need answers to my basic questions.
I have a ertiga zdi+. Please tell me whether an HID kit can be installed on to the stock headlight without the need for projectors.
If yes what would be the throw and the performance.
If no ,then what kind of projectors are required to be retrofiitted. How can warranty be void if the headlamp is opened but no wiring is cut.
Like in a halogen we go for H4 type so in a HID kit what parameters to check.
Would appreciate if you all could educate me.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by fuzail

Dear Gurus
I need answers to my basic questions...

I have a ertiga zdi+. Please tell me whether an HID kit can be installed on to the stock headlight without the need for projectors. If yes what would be the throw and the performance.
No. It is not recommended to install HID to the halogen reflectors. Unless the reflectors have been designed for HID bulbs, installing HID on halogen reflectors will scatter the light everywhere and will produce lots of glare to oncoming traffic and is not safe.

If no, then what kind of projectors are required to be retrofiitted.
This depends on your requirement and the headlight design. If your stock headlight has dual H7 bulbs for high and low beam, you could replace the low beam with projector and use the halogen high beam. Or you could retrofit a BiXenon projector in the low beam and leave the halogen high beam unused. If your headlight comes with H4 bulb, then you could install a BiXenon projector.

How can warranty be void if the headlamp is opened but no wiring is cut.
I believe the warranty will be void the moment you open up the headlights for retrofit, even if you do not cut any wires. If you are concerned about warranty, then you should retain your stock headlight assemblies, and do the retrofit in new headlight assemblies. Also, you should take care of not cutting any wires. With these precautions taken, if there is a warranty claim, you can switch back to your original headlights before taking the car to the workshop for warranty claim.

Like in a halogen we go for H4 type so in a HID kit what parameters to check.
I think projectors do come in various sizes that will fit original halogen light cutouts. I do not know much on this topic. Maybe other experts can give a detailed answer.

[fuzail]

Originally Posted by graaja

If no, then what kind of projectors are required to be retrofiitted.
This depends on your requirement and the headlight design. If your stock headlight has dual H7 bulbs for high and low beam, you could replace the low beam with projector and use the halogen high beam. Or you could retrofit a BiXenon projector in the low beam and leave the halogen high beam unused. If your headlight comes with H4 bulb, then you could install a BiXenon projector.

By this I meant the kind of projectors like FXR,Mini etc. What kind of projectors would be the best for the Ertiga headlight with little or no modification

[graaja]

Originally Posted by fuzail

By this I meant the kind of projectors like FXR,Mini etc. What kind of projectors would be the best for the Ertiga headlight with little or no modification

The choice will greatly depend on the type of bulb in your original headlights and the size of the headlights.

For example, when I got projectors retrofitted to my Polo GT TSi, the installer said that FX-R would fit H4 reflectors with minimum modifications, whereas for H7 reflectors, cutout will have to be made. Mini or equivalent projectors come with various washers that can fit H7 or H4. Also, the size of the projector matters. I wanted FX-R in my Polo GT TSi. But we found that FX-R was too big for the headlights such that it would touch the headlight glass in the extremes of its alignment. So I had to opt for Mini equivalent.

I think the installer will be able to provide more details on this.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by fuzail

By this I meant the kind of projectors like FXR,Mini etc. What kind of projectors would be the best for the Ertiga headlight with little or no modification

FxR should fit as Ertiga's headlight is definitely larger than other cars like Polo or Honda City. Your headlight warranty will be void when you open the sealed lens and it does not make much of a difference if you cut the reflector to accomodate the projector or do some other modification. You can secure the projector by M Seal and it will be as snug fit as on stock reflector. If you smoke the reflector during install (which would look great!), then also you won't be able to use halogens on it again.

If you are spending 15k+ on projectors and HIDs, it would be good to invest on a set of headlights. You can use these for now and get new stock headlights later on if you need warranty claim. Or if you can find local/used headlights, retrofit on them and keep the current ones as backup.

FxR takes in normal D2S bulbs I guess. You need to confirm this as my friend's Baleno's stock projectors take in D8S bulbs.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Crazy_Bean

I myself graduated from IIT KGP and have huge respect for enthusiasts and visionaries like you.

1. I have replaced the complete wiring and the only piece that was not replaced was the HID bulb and the associated wire. I am using a canbus kit. I feel the bulb connector might be faulty. I have ordered H7 CNlight bulbs from Aliexpress and will replace the morimoto ones. Lets see if that solves the problem.

2. Ok, this should be normal.

3. My car originally came with Halogens, so after installing the HIDs, its a way to tell the car that the lights are HIDs. Not working, and also my DRLs stopped. Will revert to the original setting.

I have an option to set the input voltage for the HIDs through VCDS. It was by default set at 13 V. Do you think this might be the reason? But then this should impact both and not just the Left light.

I am MSc(Phy) from IITK - no 5 year MSc(I) then. I got involved with working on cars in 1974 when I was doing my PhD in the UK. My boss a real guru in autos also. His mounts have included XK120, BMW2800,3.5CSi, 7(or 8)xx, and now Jag XJR.
with a CANBUS ballast reprogramming is not strictly required. I never did my Civic. So you can safely revert. Yes, there seems to be an intermittent contact, why and where is a puzzle. Also, once the discharge initiates it behaves. Unable to ignite!!

Sometimes you get real odd ones. My Civic would stop charging intermittently when new. They and I tried all types of tricks with no luck. I was monitoring the battery voltage whenever this happened, somewhat lower. Diagnostics zilch. Finally what turned out to be the fault was a loose connecting screw inside the main fuse box (in bonnet). Kept me on tenterhooks for almost 10 days.

Originally Posted by fuzail

By this I meant the kind of projectors like FXR,Mini etc. What kind of projectors would be the best for the Ertiga headlight with little or no modification

Morimoto do not require any cutting of the base, so may be a bit preferable. The bulb is different (I think DS1 or 2). What happens is that the projector housing fixes (by a nut) in the bulb opening, and the bulb goes co-axially into it. You have to open up the cover to get access inside for any projector housing.

[Darth Sid]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Finally what turned out to be the fault was a loose connecting screw inside the main fuse box (in bonnet). Kept me on tenterhooks for almost 10 days.



Morimoto do not require any cutting of the base, so may be a bit preferable.

These really weird problems can be quite a cause of distress sometimes. I can imagine how you must have felt when you discovered the actual cause of the problem.

The FXR projectors require cutting of the reflector to fit. Morimoto Mini D2S, Mini H1 and Matchbox are the only projectors of this brand which fit in the stock bulb hole in the reflector.

[condor]

For those looking for a HID kit, Check this @ 23$ for the set.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-...538814826.html

The ballast says 12V DC / 85V AC. _ Looks to have an AC ballast.
The bulbs came in a box, with mounting plates for the ballast. Wires look decently thick. Yet to install them.


I was under the impression that 4300k would not be too white, but it is fairly white. Will post pics after the installation.

[stanjohn123]

Guy's I need some help in deciding the right Xenon HID bulb's for my X1.

I'm planning to get the below projector headlights but I need to select 4 Xenon HID's separately as it does not come along with it.

http://www.mxsmotosport.com/mxs-moto...ilter_name=bmw

What I wanted to know are the below

1) Which brand HID's are better in quality and reliability between Morimoto's and Tech Hardy ?

2) I want a pure white light so I guess 6000K will be the right color temperature but how does this affect visibility as I don't want it to be bad.

3) Is there a major difference between 55W (Morimoto) and 75W( Tech Hardy ) variant bulbs ?

4) Will 55W be bright enough with 6000K bulbs ?

Thanks anyone for any valuable advice.

[sgiitk]

@STANJOHN123;
A couple of points
1.Pure white will be 4300K. 6000K will be blue! Also, as you go to higher colour temperatures it becomes a problem in fog, rain. I personally will be happier with 3900K, if I can get it.
2. Do not go to 55W so forget 70W. I think 35W is more than adequate.

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@STANJOHN123;
A couple of points
1.Pure white will be 4300K. 6000K will be blue! Also, as you go to higher colour temperatures it becomes a problem in fog, rain. I personally will be happier with 3900K, if I can get it.
2. Do not go to 55W so forget 70W. I think 35W is more than adequate.

Thanks for your reply sgiitk. When I checked youtube and other sites , most of them mentioned that 6000K is the pure white one with light blue/purple hint, just like we see in luxury car's like Benz etc. The 4300K is more like white with more yellow hint. Does this mean that the one we get in India is different ?

Also isn't higher the Watts mean that visibility will be much better ?

Since I'm installing projectors I want the light output to be similar to those of Benz which is pure white with slight bluish or purple hint. Also I want it to perform well in the dark and rainy season's too. This is well accomplished in stock projectors of Luxury brand car's, just want to replicate that and would like to know if it is possible.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

Thanks for your reply sgiitk. When I checked Youtube and other sites , most of them mentioned that 6000K is the pure white one with light blue/purple hint, just like we see in luxury car's like Benz etc. The 4300K is more like white with more yellow hint. Does this mean that the one we get in India is different ?

Also isn't higher the Watts mean that visibility will be much better ?

Since I'm installing projectors I want the light output to be similar to those of Benz which is pure white with slight bluish or purple hint. Also I want it to perform well in the dark and rainy season's too. This is well accomplished in stock projectors of Luxury brand car's, just want to replicate that and would like to know if it is possible.

No. India also gets the same if you get good international brands, but often cheaper kits from unknown brands rated at 6000K provide a more 8000K-like colour. Thus the confusion.

Higher watts = Brighter light = Shorter life. As you go higher, brightness (dazzle) will increase but bulb life will be shorter as the electrodes erode faster in 55w due to more current passing through. Believe me 35w is more than enough, since you are getting projectors and quality bulbs. 35w is the most widely used and provide the best value for your money. 70w will be too much, go for 35w only.

I guess you are looking at the rainbow-ish effect one can see when a Merc with HID projectors passes. This exact effect will be achievable if you get the same Merc or its headlight unit and this is the wrong thread for that. What you can try is get the best projector and HID kit in your budget!

Mercs use 5900K (or 5500K?), which are not available in aftermarket kits. See the below chart for colour temperatures. 6000K would be fine, though not the best in extreme weather conditions.