[bravo82in]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

P.S. In fact this Automate Pune seem to have a dealer in NCR. Here: http://automateindia.in/dealer.htm

Thanks a lot Buddy. Spoke to this guy. He quoted 45000 to 48000 for Tata Aria. He has it installed in his Ritz diesel for demo. Will visit him in next week. I feel the price is on a steeper side. Was searching this forum and bumped in this old thread with not so happy reviews about automate clutches http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-review-4.html
Are you in touch with someone who has been using it for considerable time, so as to know the long term reliability of this product.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by bravo82in

Thanks a lot Buddy. Spoke to this guy. He quoted 45000 to 48000 for Tata Aria. He has it installed in his Ritz diesel for demo. Will visit him in next week. I feel the price is on a steeper side. Was searching this forum and bumped in this old thread with not so happy reviews about automate clutches http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-review-4.html
Are you in touch with someone who has been using it for considerable time, so as to know the long term reliability of this product.

Yes, that's a bit higher, but if it's a better system (with good quality servo motor, ECU control, some intelligence), it will be worth it. Oh yes, now I remember that old thread, somehow, none of that appeared in front of me while I was looking out. Why not ask them directly for any of the existing customer's contact number? If they are genuine people, they will happily share. But please do go and check out their demo car and share a review.

BTW, Ferdi sir has done an excellent job with this pneumatic system on my car, so if nothing works out, you can come to Mumbai and get this done and drive back with the right foot. You will get a tried and tested system and may end up saving some money!

[bravo82in]

I will visit this guy soon, take the specifications and update you. Its still worth the price if the clutch engages automatically on applying brakes and releases with brake release. Good way out to ask for old customers numbers. Else its a Mumbai call

[sridhar-v]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Yes, that's a bit higher, but if it's a better system (with good quality servo motor, ECU control, some intelligence), it will be worth it. Oh yes, now I remember that old thread, somehow, none of that appeared in front of me while I was looking out. Why not ask them directly for any of the existing customer's contact number? If they are genuine people, they will happily share. But please do go and check out their demo car and share a review.

BTW, Ferdi sir has done an excellent job with this pneumatic system on my car, so if nothing works out, you can come to Mumbai and get this done and drive back with the right foot. You will get a tried and tested system and may end up saving some money!

I had driven a car with the Automateindia clutch system a few years back. It had a touch button on the gear lever which you pressed before changing gears. One advantage with the system was that you did not have to bother about declutching during emergency stops as it would do that automatically. But one still needed to change gears manually. My shoulder pain issues required that I go in for a full AT & hence went in for the Santro AT.

The owner of the unit is a technically sound guy. I visited his unit last year and they had made some improvements to the electronics & servo motor ( motor imported from Germany now).

@ bravo 82in - retrofitting anything on your ARIA may land you into warranty issues with TML. And given their quality track record that may not be the best thing to do.

[anandpadhye]

Engine bay:




Cabin:

[K a s h]

Can you post the pic of the gear lever with that push button?

Just my opinion, but if the bellows were placed a bit farther to the center of the car, the clutch cable can be routed on the corner of the passenger foot well. A nice cover for that mechanism also will help to hide the pipes and the bellows.

[anandpadhye]

Yes, will post the pic of the button (and a video too).

Even I am thinking to move the bellows towards the center, it will help the cabling as you said and also unblock the floor AC vents (which I did not realize until I took the pictures).

[anandpadhye]

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNtV4O-YDCc

[anandpadhye]

Here is the video showing how the bellows and release valve function when the button is pressed and released:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcm63L-T50

We have to increase the valve size to increase the suction which will speed up the release of the clutch pedal. Ferdi sir is testing a bigger valve.

[audioholic]

Since it looks to be based on the vacuum generated for the brakes, I have the following queries:

1. Is the vacuum pump capable enough to power both the brakes as well as the clutch bellow?

2. How much reserve vacuum do you have after the engine is switched off? It is obvious that you wouldnt need to use the clutch when the engine is off, but still curious to know.

3. Did the brakes get harder, since the clutch uses some of the vacuum that is created.

4. Isnt this unreliable compared to an electronic setup? Firstly, the one sold by automate had a simple setup, a controller, motor and a linkage to the clutch. Here, it is much more complex and entirely mechanical. Secondly, in case there is a leak in this setup, you wouldn't get to use the brakes too. Hope there has been enough fail safe measures.

[anandpadhye]

Here is what I can say from my experience over last ~700km of usage:

1. Vacuum pump seems capable enough. Brakes have been as effective as before.

2. After engine is switched off, I can operate the clutch 3 or 4 times before the vacuum is lost (if I try immediately after switch-off). If the car is switch off for a few hours (say overnight), I see there is absolutely no vacuum left if I press the button. Once I switch on the engine, vacuum builds instantly.

3. No change in the brake feel at all. On the contrary, when I had asked Ferdi the same, he said because of this extra storage tank, there will be now more vacuum and brakes will be more effective (though I haven't noticed any significant change).

4. Reliability: Only time and mileage will tell. As I put on more and more kilometers, I will find out how reliable it is and will report. According to Ferdi, this is as reliable as vacuum boosted brakes which are already doing duty on the vehicle for last 8 years and 1,32,000 km. He preferred it over electrical system because mechanical systems are generally more reliable, easier to maintain and troubleshoot. Regarding electrical systems like Automate, even I am curious to know how good and reliable those are, someone should post a review.

[anandpadhye]

The button operated clutch is a bliss. I have done ~1500 km since the install and my left knee is happy.

Ferdi sir is working on a bigger valve that will speed up the clutch release. In the meanwhile, I was showing this innovation to one of my cousins who is a mechanical engineer, he spotted that the bellows are slightly brushing the carpet. It does not matter during the pressing of the clutch as the suction is very very powerful, but it can cause additional resistance during the release which is already slow! Wow. I am so happy that he spotted this. Will talk to Ferdi and lift the bellows by a a few mm.

[anandpadhye]

Ferdi sir was working with his valve vendor to get a bigger valve. He had to do a lot of trial and error to get the perfect balance (the release had to be fast but not snappy). Finally, it's ready an we installed it last week. Just one work about the new valve: AWESOME!

The clutch release is now fast and perfectly matches my natural style and speed of shifting gears. Getting off from standstill (shifting from N to 1st) is also quick and I don't stall. Rest of the upshifts/downshifts are a piece of cake. Uphill start/stops are also more easily managed. Drove out of Ferdi's place and as usual got a taste of Mumbai traffic where the new valve showed it's merit. Next day, I had to go to Ratnagiri, and this time I chose the classic NH-17 (Mumbai Goa highway) after many many years. This one is full of ghats and is still an undivided single road with heavy traffic. NH-17 is a perfect playground and button clutch made the drive stress free.

A big to Ferdi sir!

[anandpadhye]

It's been a year since the installation and it's a bliss, especially in traffic. Distance-wise the car has done ~8000km after the install and no problems so far.

[kalpeshc]

Can this be done on any MT car?