[paras211]

Congratulations on your build.
Couple of questions .
When does the turbo start boosting ?
Why not a bigger exhaust ?

I have just completed by turbo build too on a corolla. Small niggles waiting for parts to sort that out. Made 210 on the dyno. Used a smaller turbo gt2554r I start spooling at 2300

[dhruvhersh]

Congratulations on the turbocharger, that was some technicality to digest, but I'm sure your grins make you forget all that.

I've just bought a Rapid 1.6 petrol, the engine is adequate, but like you felt sometimes, I need to feel the excitement. So probably I'll try and install one an year later when the warranty period is over.

One stupid question though, can I get a VW petrol turbo from a Polo GT or similar car and try and fix it in my 1.6? Is it possible? Is it advisable?
Obviously, a turbocharger won't be lying around, but if I can buy one in black market?

[AliAbdullah]

A very interesting and intuitive post nikhil, congratulations on turbocharging your civic and enjoy that extra dose of torque.
This post is very close to my heart since i also own a Honda civic 1.8 and earlier has thought of going turbocharged. I contacted Red Rooster performance in Coimbatore about the process and they gave me a detailed list of upgrades as follows :

The Turbo Kit would cost you Rs.4,00,000.
It includes -
Garret turbo
Garret Intercooler
Haltech ecu
Haltech wiring kit
BMC Cold air intake
RRP Free Flow Exhaust
RRP Plumbing kit
Exedy clutch
Iradium spark plugs
TurboSmart external wastegate
TurboSmart Blowoff valve
Malpassi fuel pressure regulator

Installaion, Dyno+Tuning are all inclusive.

this list is from the email i got in reply from red rooster performance. Since u mentioned about the clutch going off, i think it should have been on your list of upgrades. the extra torque from the turbo was bound the burn the stock clutch easily.

Since you are not a numbers guy, and i am, i am attaching the dyno result from red rooster performance so u can fine tune or compare your cars performance to theirs.

I had to drop my plan of going turbo on civic due to many reasons being civic isnt my daily driver anymore, got a diesel swift and had a ecu ramap so thats my daily now, and also got myself a diesel v8 q7 TT so all my acceleration needs are taken care of. And moreover i live 2,376 km from Coimbatore in lucknow. But reading your post i am trying to make up my mind to go turbo on my civic. CIAO

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by blackbeast

Congratulations Nikhil. First the Tein and now the turbo. This was what i planned several years ago and you did it.Always wanted to have a drive in your car post the tein and now with TC am looking forward to it all the more. Happy miles mate!

Hope we can meet soon! Will be happy to give you a ride as long as nothing breaks in my car!! :P

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Super interesting. Thank you for sharing. Like yourself, I am not too much in to numbers and comparisons. At the end of the day, does stepping on the gas result in a silly grin, is all that matters.

I am no engineer and have not read up on how the Comp Turbo folks managed to build a oil-less turbo. I know the working principle of a turbo charger and the components that go in to making one and if you ask me, it is impossible to build a reliable turbo charger without some form of lubrication. The grease deal, even if effective, does not sound like a reliable way to go about it. For the kinda miles you clock, the Comp Turbo would have ended being a headache.

Except for the Inter cooler, your mechanics have done a outstanding job fabricating all the plumbing. They look top notch.

Looking at the placement of the inter cooler, it looks pretty tight and seems to sit right behind the radiator. There are a couple of radiator fans too. Is there some sort of channel or duct, to draft air towards the inter cooler?

You're a smart guy! I like you!

But I like my tuners better! They did think just like you. So, they neatly placed 3 rubber hoses(with a metal ring through the hose to give it strength) between the bumper and the intercooler.

These hoses are a bit curved but they funnel cool air to the intercooler. Saw a 20 degree drop in Intake Air Temps after this! So, the whole installation is compact, neat and I think as optimised as it can get. One hose is at the very bottom. Coolest air goes in there. Two others are near the grille.

Pics attached.




EDIT: I realised I didnt explain the hoses clearly. It's a proper hose. It's made of rubber but there is a metal wire as well running through it which gives it strength. Let me find out what exactly that hose is called and post here.

Originally Posted by paras211

Congratulations on your build.
Couple of questions .
When does the turbo start boosting ?
Why not a bigger exhaust ?

I have just completed by turbo build too on a corolla. Small niggles waiting for parts to sort that out. Made 210 on the dyno. Used a smaller turbo gt2554r I start spooling at 2300

Turbo starts spooling around 3k rpm. Proper boost kicks in around 4k but even lesser than that the Manifold Air Pressure is +ve. I can feel the BOV let out air when I lift off around 3.5k rpm.

A bigger exhaust makes more noise. I dont like that. I want to go flying past that Beemer or Merc without making more noise than a stock Civic!

Your build sounds good too! All the best with that!

Originally Posted by dhruvhersh

Congratulations on the turbocharger, that was some technicality to digest, but I'm sure your grins make you forget all that.

I've just bought a Rapid 1.6 petrol, the engine is adequate, but like you felt sometimes, I need to feel the excitement. So probably I'll try and install one an year later when the warranty period is over.

One stupid question though, can I get a VW petrol turbo from a Polo GT or similar car and try and fix it in my 1.6? Is it possible? Is it advisable?
Obviously, a turbocharger won't be lying around, but if I can buy one in black market?

I am really not sure. You need to speak to some expert. Generally any turbo is suitable for any car as long as you sort out the plumbing.

Originally Posted by AliAbdullah

A very interesting and intuitive post nikhil, congratulations on turbocharging your civic and enjoy that extra dose of torque.
This post is very close to my heart since i also own a Honda civic 1.8 and earlier has thought of going turbocharged. I contacted Red Rooster performance in Coimbatore about the process and they gave me a detailed list of upgrades as follows :

this list is from the email i got in reply from red rooster performance. Since u mentioned about the clutch going off, i think it should have been on your list of upgrades. the extra torque from the turbo was bound the burn the stock clutch easily.

Since you are not a numbers guy, and i am, i am attaching the dyno result from red rooster performance so u can fine tune or compare your cars performance to theirs.

I had to drop my plan of going turbo on civic due to many reasons being civic isnt my daily driver anymore, got a diesel swift and had a ecu ramap so thats my daily now, and also got myself a diesel v8 q7 TT so all my acceleration needs are taken care of. And moreover i live 2,376 km from Coimbatore in lucknow. But reading your post i am trying to make up my mind to go turbo on my civic. CIAO

Hehe. Glad to see you're getting the itch as well. Boost is like a drug! Really addictive!

I wouldnt really want to compare car or dyno charts. Cars are tuned for different purposes. For example, someone may want a super sharp throttle response and the quickest acceleration possible. Someone else (ME!) may want a gentle throttle so driving in the city is peaceful!

I did see the clutch RRP is offering. It's not what I want so I am going in for the stock clutch from Honda. They are charging about 25k for the clutch plate, release bearings, pressure plate and the flywheel.

[21Archer84]

Congrats Nikhil and wish you have many more miles with a smile.

Originally Posted by dhruvhersh

One stupid question though, can I get a VW petrol turbo from a Polo GT or similar car and try and fix it in my 1.6? Is it possible? Is it advisable?
Obviously, a turbocharger won't be lying around, but if I can buy one in black market?

This is something similar that even I would like to know. I wanted to know if my Fabia 1.2 Petrol could be upgraded to something similar as a TSI. I would love to see a reply to your question and also the cost involved.

[hrsraghav]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Current issues I face and the future course of action.

...
The fuel economy currently is abysmal. I am told it will improve a lot with some proper tuning. Under full throttle and high speed/high revving conditions, I am getting close to 7. But if I drive a lot in the city pottering around at 20-30kmph, I am getting fuel economy as low as 5.7kmpl.

I am told this is because the idle rpm isnt stable. The Civic has an electronic throttle (throttle by wire). The Haltech ECU responds to inputs from the stock ECU and then controls fuel injection and ignition. The theory currently is that because of this current battle and the lag between the stock ECU and the Haltech, huge gobs of fuel are being dumped into the cylinder at idle.

Just some flying curious thoughts, which probably would have already been considered.
Checking emission levels through our regular pollution checking stations should be able to tell if at idle more fuel is being poured during idle.
Maybe a bit of playing with throttle, on varying RPM but still keeping it low and near to idle and checking the emission will indicate if the ECU pairs are taking more then required times.
Also if there was a lag due to ECU communications shouldn't it being reflected in power also, as in the opposite case where less fuel is pumped when more is required.

[kutlee]

Good to see a build not chasing numbers. Reminds me of mighty car mod's supercharged mini. But why didn't you consider hondata kpro? a bit of heat wrap on the DP and the Turbo should help with temps since you have intercooler well inside engine. I guess it will help with city traffic and idling. Did you check IATs on idle? may be your higher fuel consumption is due to higher IAT.

[Nikhilb2008]

Few more updates/points.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Super interesting. Thank you for sharing. Like yourself, I am not too much in to numbers and comparisons. At the end of the day, does stepping on the gas result in a silly grin, is all that matters.

I am no engineer and have not read up on how the Comp Turbo folks managed to build a oil-less turbo. I know the working principle of a turbo charger and the components that go in to making one and if you ask me, it is impossible to build a reliable turbo charger without some form of lubrication. The grease deal, even if effective, does not sound like a reliable way to go about it. For the kinda miles you clock, the Comp Turbo would have ended being a headache.

Except for the Inter cooler, your mechanics have done a outstanding job fabricating all the plumbing. They look top notch.

Looking at the placement of the inter cooler, it looks pretty tight and seems to sit right behind the radiator. There are a couple of radiator fans too. Is there some sort of channel or duct, to draft air towards the inter cooler?

That hose we have used to channel cool air towards the intercooler is a TPR hose. A proper front mounted intercooler was rejected by my tuners because in the event of a minor crash, the intercooler gets damaged which in turns damages the radiator and AC condenser. Also I've been told (and I'm copy pasting from the initial few emails between my tuners and me) that a ""FMIC involves chopping structures that provide crash protection and getting rid of the crash sensor."

This is something I'm not ready for. NO WAY I am getting rid of the crash sensor!

It looks cool, but is just too much hassle. The way the intercooler has been mounted now, the OEM clearance remains. The way Honda designed it. So, minor crashes will only involve the bumper. Not more expensive components.

Originally Posted by hrsraghav

Just some flying curious thoughts, which probably would have already been considered.
Checking emission levels through our regular pollution checking stations should be able to tell if at idle more fuel is being poured during idle.
Maybe a bit of playing with throttle, on varying RPM but still keeping it low and near to idle and checking the emission will indicate if the ECU pairs are taking more then required times.
Also if there was a lag due to ECU communications shouldn't it being reflected in power also, as in the opposite case where less fuel is pumped when more is required.

You are right but we havent had the time to go and get these things checked. This is anyway hopefully a short term problem as we are targeting the Elite ECU soon.

Originally Posted by kutlee

Good to see a build not chasing numbers. Reminds me of mighty car mod's supercharged mini. But why didn't you consider hondata kpro? a bit of heat wrap on the DP and the Turbo should help with temps since you have intercooler well inside engine. I guess it will help with city traffic and idling. Did you check IATs on idle? may be your higher fuel consumption is due to higher IAT.

Supposedly Hondata cannot support boost by gear. And in the long term we might go for that. The car is super fast for me now but in the future, we may go a bit more extreme.
IATs are stable around 55 deg C and in the middle of the afternoon with outside temps around 35, we see 60 deg C. Heat wrap might help but it isnt a major worry as of now.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Also I've been told that a ""FMIC involves chopping structures that provide crash protection and getting rid of the crash sensor."

I was definitely not implying that you should chop anything or do anything that can compromise the structural integrity of the car. You should never do that.

The IC is placed at a location where there is a lot of heat generated, circulating (Engine, gearbox, etc). Heat dissipation from the IC is compromised. This should pose no problem when you are on the move cause you have the TPR hose directed to the IC.

If Honda did sell a higher horse power, turbo version of your Civic, there should be a stock bumper available for it, that probably allows for a proper IC install.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I was definitely not implying that you should chop anything or do anything that can compromise the structural integrity of the car. You should never do that.

The IC is placed at a location where there is a lot of heat generated, circulating (Engine, gearbox, etc). Heat dissipation from the IC is compromised. This should pose no problem when you are on the move cause you have the TPR hose directed to the IC.

If Honda did sell a higher horse power, turbo version of your Civic, there should be a stock bumper available for it, that probably allows for a proper IC install.

Technically you are right, but in reality, we have no issues. If we come to a point where IATs are getting higher, then we will have to think about it.

To aid heat dissipation we have the hood vent. If you had seen the car and felt the underhood temps before and after you would understand. It makes a huge difference.

Also, as far as I know, the intercooler is placed as far away from the engine as possible. Yes, a front mounted would be better but not considering the compromises I would have to make.

Honda doesnt sell a stock Civic (the 8th gen) with a turbo. Except for the Type R I think but that wasnt available in a sedan form. The Civic Si in the US was a Civic with a 2.0 litre engine.

[Nikhilb2008]

Since the last update, car is running well. A few upgrades have been carried out.

The clutch was replaced. Stock Honda Exedy clutch is what we went with. Didnt find the need to go in for something super expensive or fancy. The stock clutch should be good enough for now.

We also upgraded the ECU to a Haltech Elite ECU. This ECU comes with more outputs to control more functions of the car. Most importantly, this can directly control the Electronic Throttle of the Civic. This should help us in improving the response of the car, getting the car to idle well and improving the fuel economy of the car as of now.

The results:

The clutch of course feels lighter and the car feels much better to drive. No question about it at all. One positive thing I have to note is the attitude of the guys at Trident Honda, Mysore Road, Bangalore. The ECU and a lot of other wires were sitting right on top of the gearbox. So, they allowed Venkat to stay with the car the whole time to guide them on how to dismantle everything and put everything back together.

Pictures of the clutch are as shown below.

The old clutch and flywheel were WAAAY past their expiry date. Maybe a bit more and the clutch might have just shattered inside!

Lots of burn marks as well on the flywheel.

Overall, not a good sign!

[Nikhilb2008]

Another point to note is that the car has covered about 12,000 kms since the first Comp Turbo got installed. That was November 20th.

So, with the car periodically in for some tuning, turbo upgrade, ECU upgrade, brakes upgrade, Clutch upgrade, regular service, etc, you can imagine how much we have driven the car in various states of tune.

This is actually much lesser than my usual driving. I have made only 2 outstation trips with the turbo(Kolhapur and most recently, Chennai) and one with the turbo disconnected(the Kabini TBHP drive).

Most recently on my drive to Chennai, I absolutely LOVED the car... flying with just a prod on the throttle.

The way the car gets up to speed and holds it there is something else altogether. The Tein suspension is also showing it's true class now. Lane Changes at the speed limit of the highways are as easy as eating cake!

[SmartCat]

Nikhil, I have a question that is generally not asked in a "mod thread" like this one -

When you make constant upgrades like this, doesn't the car stay in a garage for an awful lot of time? I presume you have a second car? Who drops the car to the garage and who picks it back again? Don't you worry that when your car is in a garage, it will be misused by employees at the garage?

I suspect one has to make lots of TIME (not obvious) + MONEY (obvious) investment to modify a car this way.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Nikhil, I have a question that is generally not asked in a "mod thread" like this one -

When you make constant upgrades like this, doesn't the car stay in a garage for an awful lot of time? I presume you have a second car? Who drops the car to the garage and who picks it back again? Don't you worry that when your car is in a garage, it will be misused by employees at the garage?

I suspect one has to make lots of TIME (not obvious) + MONEY (obvious) investment to modify a car this way.

Very valid question and I dont have a second car. This is my ONLY car. If it's in the garage, I have to use the autorickshaws for short distances and Uber for longer distances.

This is where I am thoroughly impressed with Venkat and his commitment to making sure I am not separated from my car as much as most people would expect.

Let me give you an accurate timeline:

October 31st I dropped off the car. 1st November was a holiday and I was bumming around at home as I was packing for a trip. 2nd November I left and returned on the 10th.

From the 10th to 13th, I was in Bangalore and used autos/Ubers.

14th I went to Bombay and returned the same evening. Took an Uber to the airport and Venkat picked me up in MY OWN turbocharged car when I landed at 10:00 pm.

14 days from NA to Turbo. Must have been the fastest ever build.

But he didnt give me the car on 14th as he still had to tie up a lot of loose ends. We did go on a drive again on the 15th. 16th-20th I managed with autos and Uber. On 20th evening, my car was delivered to me!

So, if you see, I barely was separated from my car.

When we got a new turbo, Venkat came to my office, removed the turbo manifold, installed the stock catcon in about 5-6 hours while I was working upstairs. Then he came back with the new Oilless 2.0 turbo aseembly, removed the catcon, installed the turbo while I was again working in office.

Then, when the coolant started leaking, I found out on the evening of January 8th. I immediately called Venkat. He came home in his Honda City, picked up my car and went to the workshop. He left his OHC for my usage.

On the evening of the 9th, he returned my car with the stock catcon back and a promise to ditch the Comp Turbo nonsense and go for the Garrett Disco Potato.

I left India to Singapore on 16th January. I drove to the airport myself in my NA Civic and Venkat drove my car back.

I returned on the 26th of January (early morning) and Venkat and Joe were at the airport waiting for me to drive my own TC car! This time with a more reliable but conventional Garrett Disco Potato running beautifully!

Sine then, no issues, no breakdowns.

The car was in the workshop for about 2 days when I had 2 full days of meetings in office. I just tagged along with my dad to the office and returned home with him. On the 3rd day Venkat delivered my car with the new Elite ECU wired and running!

So, in all this, you can see how Venkat has redefined customer service for me.

The number of days I needed my car and didnt have it can be counted. And this is over almost 5 months! About 10 days according to my back-of-hand calculations.

Honestly speaking, I dont think anyone could have minimised it beyond this!

I have never heard of this kind of commitment from a tuner to ensure that the customer is happy.

He has been flexible working around my schedule to ensure my car is up and running as much as possible.

[Nikhilb2008]

15,500 kms completed.

November 14th to today.

That is some pretty heavy running, especially with a "maaadified" car (in Bangalore slang).

We have gone through our fair share of issues and this has put my commitment to be fully honest under a lot of strain. This is one reason I havent updated this thread in the past few days.

The first issue was with the Haltech Elite ECU. It is a water proof ECU and that means all the electronics inside are sealed. The outside is also sealed. The entire ECU is cased in plastic.

We installed it in the engine bay where we had installed the Platinum ECU. The Platinum ECU ran beautifully without any issues










The Elite ECU however started overheating. A couple of times, I got stranded in the middle of the road with the ECU going into a sort of limp mode. I could just limp to the side of the road.

The ECU temperature was hitting highs of 85 deg C. This kind of temperature is not suitable at all for an ECU. It could permanently damage the electronics.

We suspect that the waterproofing made the ECU hold heat. The Platinum ECU was encased in a metal box which may have acted as a heatsink.

In any case, when I left Bangalore, I gave the car to Venkat. March 14th to 23rd I was out of Bangalore and that time Venkat worked on placing the ECU somewhere inside the passenger cabin but out of sight. Initially we thought of placing it in the glove compartment but decided not to as it would eat away the space.

We didnt want to lose sight of the fact that this is supposed to be a daily driver. Every bit of space should be usable.

Finally, we placed it behind some panels. A little under and behind the glove compartment. The maximum temperature of the ECU there is 55 deg C which is well within the operating range of 75 deg C.





You can barely see the outline of the ECU. This pic was taken when we took out some of the plastic panels. Under normal conditions, the ECU and the wideband controller are invisible.

We also got the MAP sensor upgraded to "07-12 Acura RDX 2.3L M.A.P. Sensor OEM 37830RWCA01"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271920706204...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

We replaced the stock MAP sensor with this upgraded one which is a Honda original MAP sensor used on the Acura RDX turbo engine. This MAP sensor can read upto 25 PSI of boost whereas the stock sensor can read upto 10 PSI of boost.

The upgraded sensor has the same form factor as the original one so it was a simple plug and play. Venkat made a small extender block so that we could tap a vacuum reference without having to connect a T fitting to an existing vacuum line.

Placing the source this close to the vacuum source also helps the ECU get a quicker reading and we could do away with transient throttle corrections.

Before this, we were connecting a long vacuum pipe with a T Fitting to the ECU's built in vacuum port. The length of the pipe obviously meant we had to make transient throttle corrections. This has all been rendered useless for now.

Pictures below show the stock MAP sensor on the extender block and the new MAP sensor before it was installed.