[Sankar]

Frank go ahead with the swap. Done something similar with my Swift 4 years back 1.2 K12M to 1.4 K14B, but it was not a swap but internals change because block was same. So no engine number change either

This being a complete swap will be as reliable as OE if done right. AND if you get into a situation (god forbid!) the stock looking engine bay will be a blessing in disguise. Any full on mod like an aftermarket turbo install on an NA engine may have your insurance canceled during a basic inspection. Swap is also illegal but won't be so obvious during an inspection, because both engines look the same.

Originally Posted by aerohit

You are not going to drive your car in Nurburgring, you are going to drive it in India as a daily driver - I dont see any problem with a Honda platform.


Brio undergoing swap - been there - done that
..

Like it How does she drive now? That 1.5 engine in the Brio might a hoot to drive! With the City ECU i suppose the stock 145 limiter is gone too?

Now this has got me interested in this mucho! Thanks!

[tharian]

I'm in the group saying go for it!

There are people who would be happy with a stock powerful car and those who would do swaps and mods and make their car powerful.
Engine swaps are hardly to be seen now what with turbo mods and ECU remaps.

Unlike ten years ago, now we have an option for a bigger engine in almost every model by a manufacturer mainly since the 1.2 rule came into effect.
My wet dream is to swap my Figo's engine with the 1.6 Fiesta, but since it's my only drive I don't think it will happen.

One word of advice, if the Brio brakes are not the same as the City I would suggest upgrading it. With more power, you will need better brakes. And of course, if you know a garage who can do a competent work on the swapping.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by Sankar

This being a complete swap will be as reliable as OE if done right. .

Technically:

• If your bell housing bolts matches
• Your engine sits on the mounts without any mods
• The gearbox mainshaft sits flush like before, through the clutch flywheel and to the crank bearing (in this case, I hope so)
• The pressure plate and friction plate can be bolted on to the flywheel and does not interfere with anything after bell housing installation.
• And the release bearing has enough clearance like before.

The job is pretty straight forward. However, the electrical part is where the reliability lies.

I'm not sure about OE reliablity here.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Technically:

• If your bell housing bolts matches
• Your engine sits on the mounts without any mods
• The gearbox mainshaft sits flush like before, through the clutch flywheel and to the crank bearing (in this case, I hope so)
• The pressure plate and friction plate can be bolted on to the flywheel and does not interfere with anything after bell housing installation.
• And the release bearing has enough clearance like before.

The job is pretty straight forward. However, the electrical part is where the reliability lies.

I'm not sure about OE reliablity here.

IIRC 1.2 iVTEC and 1.5iVTEC gearbox are the same, of course with different ratios.

Wiring if done right with proper knowledge, proper connectors, proper joints and importantly attention to details, will be reliable as OE.

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

LOL. *********** Why screw up something that works!! **************** What you want to do is not a project car, it's pure jugaad.

Unnecessarily harsh.

@frankmehta

Ignore the general negativity on the thread, and go for it after reconfirming the technical aspects twice or thrice. And with experienced people like Sankar and aerohit joining in, I am sure you will get the additional support you need as well.

I think the Brio will be a fun little city car with the increased performance! If I was taking on such a project, the first thing I would have tried to get are the Parts Catalogues and Workshop Manuals for models with either of the engines. I know it might take some effort, but should help you avoid a lot of guessing.

Looking forward to see your transformed Brio soon!

[aerohit]

One more thing, if you feel your car is slow, may be it is time to get some servicing done. Its been a while - right?

Get some new spark plugs, air filter changed, oil changed, throttle body cleaned, hydraulic fluids changed (clutch and brake). I know you have a modified exhaust and you were happy with it earlier, not sure what is the problem now.

No doubt, some other cars have more low end torque, but the fact that this car has been trouble free is another reason to enjoy it as it is.

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[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I agree with your other points, but why would you insult this mod as a "jugaad"?

Isnt it a pretty straight forward swap, as far as these things go? He is looking at an engine used extensively in India, that too within the same family of cars.

Because he wasn't sure if the gearbox. If it's compatible or needs new one. That means drive shafts may not match as well.

Then there's the biggest headache of electronics. You need to ensure the city ecu doesn't have any additional wiring needs which are not present in the brio.

It may look easy on paper but needs a lot of research.

Then there's the actual process of procuring a 1.5 engine. You would need to find a donor city or mobilio.

Originally Posted by Viju

Unnecessarily harsh.

@frankmehta

Ignore the general negativity on the thread, and go for it after reconfirming the technical aspects twice or thrice. And with experienced people like Sankar and aerohit joining in, I am sure you will get the additional support you need as well.

Hey that wasn't harsh. Lol. Frank knows I wasn't being negative but just pulling his leg. There's a bit of background behind that post of mine.

He had picked the very competent fiesta 1.6S in 2009 and promptly sold it a couple of years later. After that he went through a civic, cruze, brio, Polo GT tsi. Not sure if I missed anything out in between.

He could have got a used 530d or similar with the amount of cars he changed instead of looking to soup up a brio.

I was pulling his leg as we had discussed this before.

[SmartCat]

Here is a Honda Brio with some mods. Speed limiter has been disabled and the Brio has clocked 200+ kmph on the dyno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAYze73Z8I0

[S2!!!]

Some years ago when I had taken my Zen to a tuner to ask him for an engine swap, he told me a simple thing - "if you don't want to race it, keep it simple. At times small tweaks are the solution than a full blown swap". I ended up with a new intake, exhaust, larger throttle body and then some...

I don't mean to discourage you in any way but do revisit your primary aim out of this modification and consider adding performance mods to this engine rather than a 1.5L swap.

Another option that you might want to consider is to get rid of the Brio and find a pre-owned Polo 1.6l = big engine, small car (with ABS+airbags too). There are a ton of them on sale in Bombay, the car will be bone stock yet quick and you can spec your wife's and your GT TSI identical to each other too

[ajmat]

Are the engine bores the same between the City and Brio ?

[Dr.Naren]

How are you planning to source 1.5 Engine? You might get a good engine from an accident vehicle. If you are planning to buy everything new and swap, turbo charging would be cheaper.

[aerohit]

frankmehta - Minor correction from original post: If your current car was not maintained or showing signs of aging, one can also find a 1st Gen Jazz with low mileage, well maintained ones, there are good deals, doesnt have to be restricted to 2nd gen. For example-

https://www.olx.in/item/honda-jazz-x...tml#17ae39e7f8

Originally Posted by ajmat

Are the engine bores the same between the City and Brio ?

yes, same

[ajmat]

If the bores are the same, why not change the crankshaft, ecu etc?

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by ajmat

If the bores are the same, why not change the crankshaft, ecu etc?

Thats how its done in Suzuki. But even if the bore and the block is the same between 1.2 and 1.5iVTEC it could turn out to be prohibitively expensive. Many moons ago in an older thread here on tbhp i saw the prices of Honda city engine internals and the price for crankshaft rods etc were very very expensive compared to what i paid for Maruti internals.

[frankmehta]

I would love to reply to each person individually, but that will be very cumbersome.
Just to give you an idea of what I have in mind, after reading everyone's opinions.

1. I am not 'toying' with the idea of a swap. If it is possible, I will definitely go through with it.

2. I have now gathered that the engines have a lot of similarities, including the gearbox and bore and mounts etc. So much, a bolt-on swap (old engine out, new engine in) is a better bet, than actually mixing and matching components.

3. I wish to buy a used engine from an accidental car, but I will be buying a 2013, 2014 engine, so mileage shouldn't be a problem. ECU doesn't involve much wear and tear, but I will have to get one that matches my harness (there's 2 OEMs: Bosch and Keihin, and I will have to get the one that matches my wiring harness connectors)

4. I intend to do a swap AFTER I have done all my mods on the engine (if I intend to do any)

5. There is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. Turbocharging an engine requires expertise and lots of money and after all that, it still displaces 1.2 litres. I feel a 1.5 engine would be a better foundation to start with. Then, if I still feel the need for more power, a Turbo on a 1.5 litre engine is always a better bet. I still feel a turbo will be an overkill for the type of application that my car has.


More on this as our posts evolve...........