[frankmehta]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Frank how about the engine mounts for the new engine? Are they similar or the location has to be changed? Seeing your project I am not interested in my cousins Brio which he might sell some time. Personally I am of the opinion that if this is going to be a straight swap without structural changes, it will be an excellent sleeper.

Mounts are the exact same location. Basically everything is the same in the engine except the size of the pistons. Every damn thing is modular.
Anyway, I'd wait till my swap is complete. If it goes as smoothly as I expect it to, it is highly recommended.

A major cause for concern is ecu compatibility. If that doesn't work, I gotta change the ecu and the harness. Which requires immobiliser coding and such. And that's not good news from any angle.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

Attachment 1531325


And the 1.2 engine is OUT.

Some complications with the ecu but i will reserve my comments till the new engine starts up on the current ecu and a dyno test will throw up the results.

I think this is a very doable mod. Especially since there is a precedence though in another market. And a 1.5 litre Brio will be a true HOT hatch...boy. All the best with the mods. Subscribed!!

One questions - when you pick up the 1.5 litre engine what is stopping you from getting the 1.5 litr ECU as well? That should solve a lot of issues right?

Drive on,
Shibu.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

And this is my graph.

The power figures are right up there

From the graph, it looks like 88hp is being produced at the wheels. That's a pleasant surprise for me as I thought Honda quotes the power at the crank instead.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

And the 1.2 engine is OUT.

Some complications with the ecu but i will reserve my comments till the new engine starts up on the current ecu and a dyno test will throw up the results.

I have doubts regarding the current ECU working with new engine. An ECU is calibrated and specific for a car. But this issue can be easily sorted out with an after market ECU.

This car would be a monster. Any plans to turbo charge it later?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Any plans to turbo charge it later?

Or we can all repeat this question till the idea is cemented in his head.

I was just thinking the other day that Brio has a power to weight of around 92ps/ton. The NA 1.5 should help it make around 125 ps/ton. That's near Baleno RS, Punto Abarth territory.

Now, think of what a 1.5 turbo will do to this small hatchback. Not sure if other mechanical parts can handle all that power though.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

This car would be a monster. Any plans to turbo charge it later?

Safety first: The Brio has good brakes(for the 1.2), I'm sure stopping power will be decent(if not good) with the 1.5. Forced induction means much more torque and power, the braking hardware will need a significant upgrade.

Also, with the Turbocharging, the clutch will wear out real quick.

I think CAI is as far as I would go after engine swap.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Safety first: The Brio has good brakes(for the 1.2), I'm sure stopping power will be decent(if not good) with the 1.5. Forced induction means much more torque and power, the braking hardware will need a significant upgrade.

Also, with the Turbocharging, the clutch will wear out real quick.

I think CAI is as far as I would go after engine swap.

I know of one honda civic in this forum that has done 20k+ km after being turbocharged on stock brakes and clutch.

I have personally been in that car and there is no lack of pull or stopping power cos of the stock parts.

Hondas are just really overengineered - I doubt things will be different in a brio.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Hondas are just really overengineered - I doubt things will be different in a brio.

I second that. Honda petrol engines are able to handle more stress levels and mod friendly. Fastest Indian car on drag events is an old Honda City doing around 500 bhp from Race Concepts, Bangalore.

[avdhesh15]

Buddy, glued onto this thread like crazy! Eagerly awaiting your update on the engine being installed and report from the first crank.

Also, would love to see the car in action in person... if you are arranging for a viewing day in Mumbai for this car, do post it here

This video might become a reality in Mumbai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN9Ouzkb8JI

[SnS_12]

Below are the figures posted by Race Dynamics for the Brio, when they put it on the dyno.

Honda Brio Petrol

Measured power : 65.97 whp
Manufacturer claimed power: 87 bhp

Measured torque: 76.13 Nm
Manufacturer claimed torque: 109 Nm



Link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...tock-cars.html

[frankmehta]

Originally Posted by shibujp

One questions - when you pick up the 1.5 litre engine what is stopping you from getting the 1.5 litr ECU as well? That should solve a lot of issues right?
Drive on,
Shibu.

The wiring harness is different. I was just doing the math.
A used ECU with a wiring harness will cost around 20k.
Immobilizer will have to be programmed to accommodate the new ECU.
And then, a tuner will have to be paid to tune the ECU (maybe 30k)
So 50k will be the investment just to get a used Honda ECU where you have limited scope in modifying the parameters.
NOW. 60 k gets you a BRAND NEW STandalone Race Dynamics ECU where the tuning possibilities are ENDLESS.
I am waiting for the engine to crank. I will do a dyno and see where we stand.
Then we decide on the ECU. But you know where I am headed.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

From the graph, it looks like 88hp is being produced at the wheels. That's a pleasant surprise for me as I thought Honda quotes the power at the crank instead.

Something is wrong. Look at the RD graph posted by SNS_12. There cannot be such a big variation in numbers. Surely, something is off in my graph or theirs.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I have doubts regarding the current ECU working with new engine. An ECU is calibrated and specific for a car. But this issue can be easily sorted out with an after market ECU.

This car would be a monster. Any plans to turbo charge it later?

After-market ECU is inevitable.
I am guessing, since the engines are similar, at least the engine will start. I am not sure I will use it for sustained periods on the 1.2 map, but the first start of a car after such a big heart transplant is always music to one's ears!

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Or we can all repeat this question till the idea is cemented in his head.

I was just thinking the other day that Brio has a power to weight of around 92ps/ton. The NA 1.5 should help it make around 125 ps/ton. That's near Baleno RS, Punto Abarth territory.

Now, think of what a 1.5 turbo will do to this small hatchback. Not sure if other mechanical parts can handle all that power though.

A turbo is not in the offing. IF there is need for more BHP/NM, a Used Laura TSI will be next.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Safety first: The Brio has good brakes(for the 1.2), I'm sure stopping power will be decent(if not good) with the 1.5. Forced induction means much more torque and power, the braking hardware will need a significant upgrade.

Also, with the Turbocharging, the clutch will wear out real quick.

I think CAI is as far as I would go after engine swap.

CAI is also not a needed. The new Honda Z1 engine intake design looks as "CAI" as we need in this country. That's going in for sure.

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

Buddy, glued onto this thread like crazy! Eagerly awaiting your update on the engine being installed and report from the first crank.

Also, would love to see the car in action in person... if you are arranging for a viewing day in Mumbai for this car, do post it here
...

Rest assured, buddy. If there comes a day when my wife has to wear a helmet and climb into a rollcage to get into a car, it will be to run me over, KARZ style

It's her car and this is as far as we can go. It was very sweet of her to allow this, in the first place.

Originally Posted by SnS_12

Below are the figures posted by Race Dynamics for the Brio, when they put it on the dyno.

Honda Brio Petrol

Measured power : 65.97 whp
Manufacturer claimed power: 87 bhp

Measured torque: 76.13 Nm
Manufacturer claimed torque: 109 Nm

....

STRANGE!
Look at my Dyno figures! Somehow, yours are more believable.


Let's see how the final dyno pans out... (with the 1.5 engine)

Ok, guys, NEW ENGINE IS IN!!!
Today we crank her.

































Ye olde L12B Brio engine out of the car, sulking in the corner


Updates in the evening...

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

After-market ECU is inevitable.
I am guessing, since the engines are similar, at least the engine will start. I am not sure I will use it for sustained periods on the 1.2 map, but the first start of a car after such a big heart transplant is always music to one's ears!

In Swift 1.2 to 1.4 conversion we changed Crank, Conrods, piston, crank trigger wheel and lot of other minor parts. Though we went with a Unichip piggyback ecu to get most out of the conversion i late found out that the stock ECU handled the increased stroke and the additional capacity well on its own. I was surprised to find this and even the AFR was spot on as reported by the AEM wideband i had on the car. Of course the Swift ECU handling the now Ertiga motor will not be as optimal as Ertiga ECU running the same motor, but it managed very well. Unfortunately i couldnt dyno the car with stock ECU.

Eagerly awaiting your dyno run with stock ECU

[SnS_12]

Even, I am clueless which dyno numbers to believe. I think you would need to try at least three different dyno to be sure on the power numbers. But, at the end of the day these are just numbers, and the actual drive will lay down all the difference in power.

Now, what is your plan with the old engine? I guess, you will hold on to it?

[frankmehta]

Originally Posted by Sankar

In Swift 1.2 to 1.4 conversion we changed Crank, Conrods, piston, crank trigger wheel and lot of other minor parts. Though we went with a Unichip piggyback ecu to get most out of the conversion i late found out that the stock ECU handled the increased stroke and the additional capacity well on its own. I was surprised to find this and even the AFR was spot on as reported by the AEM wideband i had on the car. Of course the Swift ECU handling the now Ertiga motor will not be as optimal as Ertiga ECU running the same motor, but it managed very well. Unfortunately i couldnt dyno the car with stock ECU.

Eagerly awaiting your dyno run with stock ECU

Encouraging to hear.
But remember, my stock ECU comes with a (silly) 145 kmph speed limiter.
I don't wish to drive at such speeds, but it's painful to see the limiter max out at 145.
A standalone would be able to traverse that barrier, and much more.
Besides, the efficiency part. I would want to run the engine as efficiently as possible, as it's a daily driver and fuel efficiency is also one of the reasons why I am not going bonkers with mods.
I get 12-13 kmpl and I drive 80 km a day. I don't want to upset those dynamics by much.
SO we shall see the dyno figures first and then figure the scene.

Originally Posted by SnS_12

Even, I am clueless which dyno numbers to believe. I think you would need to try at least three different dyno to be sure on the power numbers. But, at the end of the day these are just numbers, and the actual drive will lay down all the difference in power.

Now, what is your plan with the old engine? I guess, you will hold on to it?

Old engine is going to kept in my garage. I don't want to sell it. I will get peanuts. Also, for insurance and other certification purposes, the old engine is always there.
The performance exhaust is going out as we speak. I wish to run the car stock to see whether I can reach City NVH and refinement levels.


Guys, I have made this mod keeping practicality and convenience in mind.
A stock Honda 1.5 litre i-vtec engine develops as much power as one needs, in a 915 kg hatch. This swap is an example of a fill-it, shut-it, drive-her-for-years modification.
Once my engine is in and running efficiently, I will achieve a near-OEM reliable modification that will run well within the tolerance limits of all the mechanicals in the car, and still be a lot more fun than what it could have been with the 1.2.

If this pans out well, it will well be one of the most sensible and clever (and reasonably easy) mods to do on a Brio. I wish for this thread to serve as a model for anyone who didn't have the courage to do this on their Brio.

Legendary Honda reliability, lightweight car and reasonably powerful, fun to drive, frugal and silent!

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

Guys, I have made this mod keeping practicality and convenience in mind.
A stock Honda 1.5 litre i-vtec engine develops as much power as one needs, in a 915 kg hatch. This swap is an example of a fill-it, shut-it, drive-her-for-years modification.
Once my engine is in and running efficiently, I will achieve a near-OEM reliable modification that will run well within the tolerance limits of all the mechanicals in the car, and still be a lot more fun than what it could have been with the 1.2.

If this pans out well, it will well be one of the most sensible and clever (and reasonably easy) mods to do on a Brio. I wish for this thread to serve as a model for anyone who didn't have the courage to do this on their Brio.

Legendary Honda reliability, lightweight car and reasonably powerful, fun to drive, frugal and silent!

way to go Frank. I am sure the car will be a hoot to drive post the swap. Eagerly waiting for the outcome.