[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

@kryptonite : Long post!!! Let me try to put down few points to make things clear.

But my friend, you need to have patience at the end of the day.

You know very well that TOT are ethical, good guys. Why not have some faith?

You are young, hot blooded and impatient. Two of those dont go well with modding cars! I wonder what you would have done if you were in my place with regard to my Turbo Civic!

Anyway, good luck with your new tuner! Keep us updated!

[Dr.Naren]

Let me clear all the confusion regarding protocol issue with K Tag for 1.6 S-Cross. S-Cross 1.6 has EDC17C49 ECU. Alientech had stabilised the protocol and updated it in their software in November 2016.



http://www.alientech-tools.com/en/k-suite-2-31/

I was also following up with Alientech and used to check their updates frequently. TOT was not able to read my ECU properly with their K Tag tool even after stabilised protocol.

I am not an expert here. Only thing I could make out is that Akshay was able to get a successful read of the ECU using same protocol, but he used communication using specific Adapter for my ECU ( TOT didn't use it).

Waiting for 6 months patiently is not easy for me. I am not the kind of person to wait for more than 2 years and all. If I find somebody else who could deliver and meet my requirements, I will move on and have already decided to. TOT has done a good remap for 1.6 S-Cross, no issues. But since they are not able to support my car properly( all these tuners claim unlimited tweaks etc), I have taken this decision. Anyways, it's OK if TOT doesn't provide me the proper stock map file, I will figure out something.

Cheers!!

[ecenandu]

Since the performance tuning is a relatively small and competitive market, I tend to take the reviews online with a pinch of salt. Coming to your issues Naren, the main problem, I think is due to misunderstanding or lack of communication.

I think it will be better if can hear from ToT's side as well. It give us, readers as well as bhpian's a better picture on the whole situation.

[Pranay J Pandya]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

I think these sort of highly accusatory and negative messages without knowing the full story are not appropriate.

You have heard only one side of the story, Naren's, and you've already abused TOT right royally. I dont think that's fair.

This is the problem with social media. People appoint themselves the judge, jury and executioner.

For all you know, there are extenuating circumstances, because of which TOT havent replied promptly to Naren's emails and calls. Without knowing it, you should not indulge in mud slinging on a reputed business. You can cause irrevocable harm without even being involved in this transaction between Naren and TOT.

Nice to see someone calling it out for once. Unfortunately, this happens a little too often.

Originally Posted by kryptonite

It takes 2 to build a relationship or rapport. It is not cool to diss an enterprise unnecessarily.

Absolutely, having a good rapport with even the service adviser in an authorized service center alone can go a long way. Why wouldn't one want to do the same when it comes to tuning a car? In fact, I feel its all the more important when modding.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by ecenandu

Since the performance tuning is a relatively small and competitive market, I tend to take the reviews online with a pinch of salt. Coming to your issues Naren, the main problem, I think is due to misunderstanding or lack of communication.

I think it will be better if can hear from ToT's side as well. It give us, readers as well as bhpian's a better picture on the whole situation.

Well, the experience with TOT for 1.6 S-Cross has not been smooth. Let me put it down in a simple way.

September 2016 : I had tried remapping my car with TOT. The first map by TOT had ECU torque monitoring error codes. TOT said it's due to protocol / checksum issues. Well the fact is its due to not tweaking some of the torque limiter maps or not able to find those maps.

Next day, TOT gave me a different map. It did not have error codes. Car felt faster than stock. But after driving for few days, I realised that the performance is same as stock on full throttle. It was just like driving a car with pedal tune box. I had posted the same on my thread here.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post4066267

TOT gave me an explanation saying Alientech detuned their map and TOT was not aware of it. Well, Alientech develops only tools, protocols for the tuners and they are not involved in making map changes.

October 2016 :But TOT did come and remapped my car again ( 3rd time). This map had no issues and still running with the same map. TOT told me to drive on this map for some time and make tweaks later if I need.

After driving for couple of KM, I felt the need to tweak the low end. Also the EGR delete was not done. TOT used to say like they are helpless and need working protocol. I had waited for months and decided to take a 2nd opinion. There was no protocol issues and the same K tag tool could do my S-Cross properly. It's upto TOT to find out if their equipment is working properly or they need to buy the adapters for this ECU.

I have nothing more to add on this topic for now. I will update here after I get the next remap with EGR delete etc.

Cheers!!

Update : TOT has emailed me the stock open file few minutes back. Thank you!!

[Prodigy07]

I find the first page of this thread showering all praises for TOT and now the last 2-3 pages is exactly the opposite :(

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Prodigy07

I find the first page of this thread showering all praises for TOT and now the last 2-3 pages is exactly the opposite :(

I do not believe in hiding the facts and share only good experiences. You can find the same neutral feedback on all my threads. Be it remaps, projector setup etc.

As per the latest email received by TOT, they have clarified about the protocol issues. They were following the instructions as per Alientech support team when they worked on the ECU last time on November 4, 2016. But recently, I had got credible information that a certain protocol works out for 1.6 S-Cross and wanted to try the same. As mentioned I was not able to reach TOT for weeks and I had tried the same with Akshay who had all the tools including EDC17 specific adapters/positioning frame and the protocol worked out well. Anyways, TOT has been supportive in last 24 hours and have responded to my emails and I have even received the stock open file too.

Cheers!!

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Anyways, TOT has been supportive in last 24 hours and have responded to my emails and I have even received the stock open file too.

Cheers!!

If they are being supportive now, why not give them a chance (if they are managing to do what you want). It may be your posts here or whatever that have caused them to wake up. In my opinion a known devil is better than an unknown angel.

[Sree73]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

TOT has been supportive in last 24 hours and have responded to my emails and I have even received the stock open file too.

Happy that positive vibes are appearing in the relationship.

The way things were posted here, I had the feeling that your relation with TOT was going the same way the one you had with Code6 on your Grand i10 remap. If I remember correctly, you had a big time issue with Code6 too and there was a separate thread on that.

Keep a cool head and there are nothing in this world which cannot be solved through discusssions.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Akshay1234

If they are being supportive now, why not give them a chance (if they are managing to do what you want). It may be your posts here or whatever that have caused them to wake up. In my opinion a known devil is better than an unknown angel.

Well, I do not want to dig in deeper or take this further. I have got 3 cars remapped by TOT in last one year. Even when I posted here 2 days back, I have clarified my stand about not going back to TOT and would be expecting only open stock file from them (I have received it). It looks like an open file ( 4MB vs 800 kb (encrypted)). I will anyways get it confirmed and update here.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Well, I do not want to dig in deeper or take this further. I have got 3 cars remapped by TOT in last one year. Even when I posted here 2 days back, I have clarified my stand about not going back to TOT and would be expecting only open stock file from them (I have received it). It looks like an open file ( 4MB vs 800 kb (encrypted)). I will anyways get it confirmed and update here.

Its your decision of course. Once you don't feel comfortable dealing with someone for whatever reason its probably best to move on. What I would like to know is that whether TOT is now ready to make the adjustments you wanted (soft delete of the EGR, etc) or are they still not able to? So you will be paying full amount to another tuner for what would be done for free here?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Akshay1234

What I would like to know is that whether TOT is now ready to make the adjustments you wanted (soft delete of the EGR, etc) or are they still not able to?

I really don't know if TOT could do a soft EGR delete for S-Cross now. Also I am not interested anymore. TOT had done soft EGR delete in my SX4 ( almost all tuners do it) and they couldn't do in Grand I10.

So you will be paying full amount to another tuner for what would be done for free here?

As I said, I am still exploring the available options. I would be running with TOT remap for few more days and mostly get it dynoed at RRP, Coimbatore. I did dyno my car with TOT remap at Race Dynamics. But the results were not convincing. I mean it's not possible for a car to be 1.53 seconds faster with just 6 hp gain post remap. I wanted to dyno my car at RRP, but again due to lack of proper protocol.. It would take lot of time to do stock vs remap run. But, Race Dynamics had already dynoed a stock 1.6 S-Cross. So I had gone there and dynoed my remapped S-Cross. But on RD dyno, it shows overall lower figures. It's inertia based dyno and can't be loaded. Anyways, I will get a clear picture after dyno at RRP. It's a hub dyno and supposed to be the best in India.

Mostly after that, I will get the remap done from another tuner and do the run again I will update the pricing etc after I find the right tuner to work with.

[Dr.Naren]

Update : Good news!!

After posting here on team bhp about my need for original stock map file from TOT, they have sent it to me within 24 hours. Also I have got the stock map file confirmed by Quantum UK and they said that the file is correct and we are good to go. They have soft EGR delete available for my car along with speed limiter removal. The present map could be made slightly better too. The only problem is Akshay is in Delhi and he would be going to UK soon. So I might need to wait until he comes back or else need to get it done before he goes .

I am really thankful to Akshay and Quantum UK for figuring out the right method to read the ECU properly. Also it's funny that Alientech has not incorporated the right protocol under S-Cross list. It's just a minor editing glitch and would get this into notice of Alientech to sort this out. So this would be helpful for all tuners using K tag tool

K Suite software of Alientech says to use protocol 503 for 1.6 S-Cross. But that doesn't work. We need to go to list of protocols and select Suzuki EDC17 GPT Protocol and it works without any issues.

[Sip]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

I think these sort of highly accusatory and negative messages without knowing the full story are not appropriate.

You have heard only one side of the story, Naren's, and you've already abused TOT right royally. I dont think that's fair.

This is the problem with social media. People appoint themselves the judge, jury and executioner.

For all you know, there are extenuating circumstances, because of which TOT havent replied promptly to Naren's emails and calls. Without knowing it, you should not indulge in mud slinging on a reputed business. You can cause irrevocable harm without even being involved in this transaction between Naren and TOT.

Dear Nikhilb2008 I agree I didn't know the other side of story and accept criticism.

But they have severed all the modes of communications with their customer in spite of promise of lifetime support. As a customer Dr.Naren is entitled to express his displeasure. He has been fair in showering praise where due and we should not take away his right to express an annoyance.

Further as far as I know this world the people who responds positively and even extend support to fellow homo sapiens due to compassionate reasons are not in minority. Therefore the extenuating circumstances should have been communicated to Dr.Naren by TOT itself. Six month is reasonable long time. Most customers could go impatient over such long period of closed doors and this will invariably be perceived as poor after sales customer service for want of which few excellent automakers are paying dearly.

I am sure you also like calling a spade a spade. Is it fair for you to exonerate TOT for this delay on others behalf?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Sip

But they have severed all the modes of communications with their customer in spite of promise of lifetime support. As a customer Dr.Naren is entitled to express his displeasure. He has been fair in showering praise where due and we should not take away his right to express an annoyance.

Further as far as I know this world the people who responds positively and even extend support to fellow homo sapiens due to compassionate reasons are not in minority. Therefore the extenuating circumstances should have been communicated to Dr.Naren by TOT itself. Six month is reasonable long time. Most customers could go impatient over such long period of closed doors and this will invariably be perceived as poor after sales customer service for want of which few excellent automakers are paying dearly.

Let's forget about this buddy . TOT was not able to deliver things as promised and it's been long time for me, say 6 months. Anyways I have found a better tuner now.. So let's stop discussing about Tune O Tronics. I think what has to be said has been already said and there is nothing more to add.