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Old 4th December 2017, 19:41   #91
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

As you know, power is a function of the air that the engine can take in.
With 115.99 g/s, the max that you can make while still respecting the laws of thermodynamics is 145 BHP, but it will more likely be in the 140 bhp range.

App calculated power numbers are subject to the road gradient - if you happen to accelerate downhill, it will show crazy high, but inaccurate numbers.
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Old 4th December 2017, 20:51   #92
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
As you know, power is a function of the air that the engine can take in.
With 115.99 g/s, the max that you can make while still respecting the laws of thermodynamics is 145 BHP, but it will more likely be in the 140 bhp range.
MAF based power calculations are not accurate in diesel cars. It works near accurate in petrol cars as they run very close to ideal AFR.

Quote:
App calculated power numbers are subject to the road gradient - if you happen to accelerate downhill, it will show crazy high, but inaccurate numbers.
Yes, in apps like Perfexpert dyno.

Dash Command is app by Palmer Performance. As per their forum, the latest power calculation is based on MAF, BSFC etc. What I have observed in this app is that I got the same figures on flat road and little downhill. But in Perfexpert, it will change a lot wrt road gradient. As per Dash Command app I have got 153 ps at crank and 130 ps at wheels .

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 4th December 2017 at 21:10.
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Old 7th December 2017, 16:49   #93
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

I had observed that with Wolf remap, the turbo kick was lesser. The power delivery was very linear, but stronger. The car was also much faster than stock, but the butt dyno won't be happy without the kick . As per Rajiv, he has improved the low end and also held the peak boost for longer revv band. This makes the turbo kick feel gets reduced. I did boost value graphing in all gears and observed that the curve is flat in 3,4,5 and 6 gears. It was holding 23.5 psi from 1750 to 3750 RPM, incredible!!
Attached Thumbnails
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20171207_164219.png  

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Old 18th December 2017, 11:51   #94
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

I had mentioned long back here on Team BHP about the horrible intake in S-Cross 1.6. It was breathing hot air. IAT would easily go above 60 degrees on hot summer days in Bangalore traffic and there would be little drop in power. On detailed analysis of S-Cross 1.6 ECU maps, there was IAT based fuel limiter. The ECU would cut fuel after IAT reaches 60 degrees. No wonder there was power drop. I had requested Rajiv to remove the limiter at 60 degrees and keep it only after 70 degrees. He did the same. Now there is no power loss. I had even modified the intake path to suck in cooler air, but the placement was very low and it was not safe during rains.

This is the IAT based limiter map. The injected fuel gets reduced by so much amount as mentioned in the table.
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-save_20171218_113959.jpeg

The car performs very well when IAT is low. I am planning to upgrade the intercooler and doing some research on it. People in Europe have used performance intercooler / OE intercooler from 2.0 MJD. Jeep Compass 2.0 MJD intercooler would be easy to source here . We need to check the compatibility first.
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Old 18th December 2017, 13:22   #95
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I did boost value graphing in all gears and observed that the curve is flat in 3,4,5 and 6 gears. It was holding 23.5 psi from 1750 to 3750 RPM, incredible!!
Can you check if the stock MAP sensor is 2.5Bar or 3Bar?
If it is 2.5 Bar, your turbo could be boosting higher than 23.5 psi in reality, while the sensor is maxed out at 2.5Bar.

2.5 Bar = 36.25 PSI

36.25 - 13PSI (atmospheric pressure) = 23.25, which is very close to your recorded value.
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Old 18th December 2017, 13:32   #96
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
Can you check if the stock MAP sensor is 2.5Bar or 3Bar?
If it is 2.5 Bar, your turbo could be boosting higher than 23.5 psi in reality, while the sensor is maxed out at 2.5Bar.

2.5 Bar = 36.25 PSI

36.25 - 13PSI (atmospheric pressure) = 23.25, which is very close to your recorded value.
I wanted to find about it and then post . I couldn't find exact rating of MAP sensor. Using the part number, I googled and got information like it was rated up to 3 bars. But I am not sure. We have requested little more boost than 23.5 psi in the maps, but on logging it shows only 23.5 psi max. Also it is unlikely to have 3 bar map sensor from factory, most of the cars have 2.5 bar sensor.
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20171218_132850.jpg
I had posted about MAP sensor in S-Cross official thread few months back here.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post4208096

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 18th December 2017 at 13:59.
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Old 18th December 2017, 17:59   #97
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I wanted to find about it and then post . I couldn't find exact rating of MAP sensor. Using the part number, I googled and got information like it was rated up to 3 bars. But I am not sure. We have requested little more boost than 23.5 psi in the maps, but on logging it shows only 23.5 psi max. Also it is unlikely to have 3 bar map sensor from factory, most of the cars have 2.5 bar sensor.
most of the cars have 3 bar sensor. My Linea throws out a overboost error when i increase the boost above 3 bar.

Also check out the Vento intercooler. I have used it on my supercharged palio. I have never come across such an efficient inter-cooler.

Big does not mean better
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Old 18th December 2017, 18:35   #98
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
most of the cars have 3 bar sensor. My Linea throws out a overboost error when i increase the boost above 3 bar.
I am surprised that the turbo in 1.3 MJD can make boost up to 2 bars (3 bars including atmospheric pressure).

Quote:
Also check out the Vento intercooler. I have used it on my supercharged palio. I have never come across such an efficient inter-cooler.

Big does not mean better
Anything better will do . From what I have read on Alfa / Fiat forums.. Most of the guys upgraded with 2.0 MJD OE intercooler. Need to do more research on it. I heard that intercooler of Jeep Compass costs only 5500 Rs, really shocked, I hope that is true haha.
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Old 20th December 2017, 10:58   #99
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I am surprised that the turbo in 1.3 MJD can make boost up to 2 bars (3 bars including atmospheric pressure).



Anything better will do . From what I have read on Alfa / Fiat forums.. Most of the guys upgraded with 2.0 MJD OE intercooler. Need to do more research on it. I heard that intercooler of Jeep Compass costs only 5500 Rs, really shocked, I hope that is true haha.
The turbo can make more than 3 bars boost, but the sensor restricts it. the stock does 2600/2700 spiked. Remapped does way more.

I have seen the 1.6 mjd intercooler. It looks good for the purpose.
Secondly just plonking in the big intercooler doesnt work. The inlet and outlet dimensions, the drop accross the intercooler and the supporting plumbing also matters. Check the calculations on my supercharged palio thread.
For approx 160 bhp you are good enough with atleast 2" plumbing.
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Old 20th December 2017, 11:06   #100
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
I have seen the 1.6 mjd intercooler. It looks good for the purpose.
Yes, should be good enough in stock car. I have plans to install bigger turbo and hit 190-200 HP at crank . Most of such builds in Europe have used better intercooler.

Quote:
Secondly just plonking in the big intercooler doesnt work. The inlet and outlet dimensions, the drop accross the intercooler and the supporting plumbing also matters. Check the calculations on my supercharged palio thread.
For approx 160 bhp you are good enough with atleast 2" plumbing.
Yes, it's pointless if there is no good drop in temperature. Need to do more research and then try intercooler from 2.0 MJD.
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Old 20th December 2017, 11:39   #101
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Yes, should be good enough in stock car. I have plans to install bigger turbo and hit 190-200 HP at crank . Most of such builds in Europe have used better intercooler.

Yes, it's pointless if there is no good drop in temperature. Need to do more research and then try intercooler from 2.0 MJD.
Then you need 2.5" piping too. Then you are better off with safari storme intercoolers. they are huge and efficient.

I was shocked to see the efficiency of the vento intercooler. Supercharged temperatures are exponentially higher than turbo, still this intercooler is so efficient that the IATs are lower than even the NA car.
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Old 1st January 2018, 12:25   #102
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

A friend asked me this question : "How many times was the ECU opened"?

I thought for few seconds and I am sure I won't have the exact count . This is from what I remember.

Tune O Tronics : 5 times

1st attempt : ECU was force read, there was checksum error. They did not take risk flashing the tuned file.

2nd attempt : ECU was opened again and tuned file was flashed. But, the car had torque monitoring errors.

3rd attempt : ECU was opened again and another file was flashed. There were no errors this time.

4th attempt : I found out that only throttle response was better and 0-100 / in gear timings were as good as stock. ECU was opened again and new file was flashed. This was the final map.

5th attempt : ECU was opened to try if a new protocol works and it was not successful. TOT depends on only one tool, they did not even have the adapters specific for my ECU. This is the reason they had to force read, checksum errors and what not.

GT Tunerz : 1
Akshay had opened the ECU to remap my S-Cross. But due to non availability of stock file, we couldn't do it.

Wolf Moto : 4 times
I have tried multiple maps from Rajiv. But he had opened the ECU only 4 times. Rajiv would open the ECU once, then try different maps as requested by me and then finally seal it. Wolf was able to successfully remap in 1st attempt itself. But I wanted to try few more maps / tailor it as per my requirements.

OK, so the ECU has been opened and resealed 10 times . I feel very bad whenever I look at my ECU. It's still alive because of the location, it's very much hidden. I am planning to fix it. We have to remove all the excess sealant on the board and then reseal it properly. I do not want to open it again. That means : No more new maps?? NO!!

Solution : Spider Boot Chip
This is a boot chip by CMD. It is supposed to be placed on top of the Tricore processor and soldered to few points. This chip makes OBD read and write possible, there is no need to open the ECU again. Logically this chip is not useful. It is only for guys like me who want to try multiple maps and ECU is OBD tune protected. I have already asked Rajiv to get this chip. I am sure we have to try different maps when I go with bigger turbo and the spider boot chip would be very very helpful.

Few Videos about Spider Boot Chip :

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Old 1st January 2018, 12:30   #103
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Wow the sheer amount of times these guys opened and tried things with your ECU, I think they ought to pay you for allowing them to play around and try new things which they would eventually fine tune to sell to other customers

Last edited by SPARKled : 1st January 2018 at 12:45.
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Old 1st January 2018, 12:39   #104
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
Wow the sheer amount of times these guys opened and tried things with your ECU, I think they ought to pay you for allowing them with your ECU to try new things which they would eventually fine tune to sell to other customers
Hahahaha!! This is India. The famous tuners in Europe do pay the customer or offer free tune for development cars. But in India, customer cars are used for all the testing and they do not even inform the customer about it and even charge them . Happy with Wolf Moto, they were fully honest and transparent from Day 1.
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Old 19th January 2018, 21:03   #105
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

I had driven to Kochi and met Wolf moto team. I wanted to try another map which would be slightly more powerful and faster. Rajiv told me clearly that low end can't be increased anymore. It's actually very good, there is very less lag (it is not possible to eliminate that). Rajiv tailored a map with explosive mid range and little more top end. There is scope to improve the top end further, but with smoke. I asked him not to go all out on top end for now and just to give little more punch than previous map. He did the same.

ECU was removed from car, opened and put on bench (all in 30 mins).
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20180118_220946.jpg
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20180118_223843.jpg
New map was flashed and ECU was installed back in another 30 minutes .

Rapid 1.6 TDI with Stage 2 Wolf map was also available. I wanted to benchmark my S-Cross against it. That car is doing more than 170 HP. It has got bigger turbo and turbo full exhaust.
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20180118_235223_hht.jpg
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20180118_233921.jpg
We did some pulls with Rapid. Thanks to bigger turbo, Rapid had more lag than my S-Cross. But after 2500 RPM, that car is a beast. It just propels like a rocket. I had no plans to beat the Rapid, just wanted to see how my S-Cross does and I am happy.

The low end of new map is as good as previous map. Mid range has become explosive. The car revvs very quick. Once again Rajiv was spot on with the map.

I got to meet another guy with Wolf tuned S-Cross 1.6. He is running with stock cat con and slightly lesser powerful map. We could clearly figure out the difference. My car had much more punch after 3000 RPM.
S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!-img_20180119_204633.jpg
I would be driving 400 + km tomorrow, can't wait for it.

Cheers!

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 19th January 2018 at 21:09.
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