Calling all you Bangalore-based mod-gurus!

vezj420 · 6th November 2006, 20:16

Sorry if this is redundant...I really have some itching questions concerning perf. upgrades in BLR!

For those that don't know already, I've got an Ikon 1.6 Nxt with K&N air intake+cone filter, Denso Iridiums, stock engine, and N1 spec mufflers. I'm looking for my next big push in performance upgrades, and have the following ideas and questions:

Kit 1
-----
For even better airflow, I've heard good things about the Pipercross Viper induction kit (this is a CAI with chrome-top cone filter and cold air feed). Cost ~ Rs. 9-10k

For enriching/tweaking the AFM, I was thinking of installing an FSE Power Boost Valve (fuel pressure regulator). Cost ~ Rs. 10-11k

(btw, if anyone knows where I can get these for cheaper, lemme know please!

Now, I'm thinking, INSTEAD of spending the 20k-ish on the above two items, why not go for:

Kit 2
-----
A piggyback module that can adjust AFR and ignition timings (ie. Race Dynamics RD0406, Next Level Tri-phase, etc.). Why I think of this as an alternative is that it can be mapped to accomplish pretty much the same thing the above (Kit 1) does. Is my reasoning/line of thinking correct? Or am I being a naive newbie?? Please impart your wisdom, fellow Team-BHPians!

---------------

Now, I am of course aware that BOTH kits together would make a helluva difference, but my budget and cautious nature only allow for one kit at a time...maybe with a couple of months in between for break-in time. Plus, I'm thinking of saving up for a wet N20 kit! (keep this in mind for your advice)

Okay, that part's done....on to the next section: (esp. for the Bangaloreans, this one!)

------------
Which place in BLR can do or provide the following for the Ikon 1.6?

1) Front strut brace
2) Flywheel lightening and balancing
3) Short-throw gear lever

(I may be asking too much of BLR....Hey, she's my hometown too, man! Prove me wrong, people!)

Mugen_Power · 6th November 2006, 23:42

vezj420,

First of all you should have to look at Team-Bhp rules, Smilies usage is restricted to Two per post.

Why dont you try search option in advanced mode ?

Few Links..

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ded-ikons.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...us-cities.html

Or PM psycho for performance upgrades.

Cheers,
Mugen_Power.

nitrous · 7th November 2006, 00:35

Dude,of the above two kids,i'd suggest the tri-phase.
Anyways, front strut brace is a good idea.
But, y do u want to lighten ur flywheel?

v1p3r · 7th November 2006, 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by vezj420

(I may be asking too much of BLR....Hey, she's my hometown too, man! Prove me wrong, people!)

The best is in BLR.

You could get a good flow job done to your head. That would bump up power some. Increase compression too. That's another nice way to go. Or get a custom cam. Speak to Ford Rocam, he once did it for his Ikon, so I bet he can help you out.

speedzak · 7th November 2006, 12:09

Man! Nice intentions you have. It seems, you just want full performance and no show. That's good man.

Whatever you wanna do, consult Psycho also. He's our very own tuner in Teambhp.

I'm a bit curious of your car though. Ikon's have a tailhappy syndrome and it's brakes are not much reliable. First, I thought it was my experience alone. But later heard of the same from others too.

vezj420 · 7th November 2006, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

The best is in BLR.

You could get a good flow job done to your head. That would bump up power some. Increase compression too. That's another nice way to go. Or get a custom cam. Speak to Ford Rocam, he once did it for his Ikon, so I bet he can help you out.

Hey V1p3r, thanks for the info. I looked on the "mod shops in various cities" thread but couldn't find where in BLR I can get cylinder head work done....any idea where? That would avoid me having to order one from Electra Performance (Chennai).

A camshaft is still an open option, but which shop can tune it properly?

vezj420 · 7th November 2006, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedzak

Man! Nice intentions you have. It seems, you just want full performance and no show. That's good man.

Whatever you wanna do, consult Psycho also. He's our very own tuner in Teambhp.

I'm a bit curious of your car though. Ikon's have a tailhappy syndrome and it's brakes are not much reliable. First, I thought it was my experience alone. But later heard of the same from others too.

SpeedZak, you're totally right about the Ikon's brakes....they do suck! (although they're better than some cars in India). Actually, I was thinking of upgrading my brake pads and lines right after adding a good performance boost....

vezj420 · 7th November 2006, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

But, y do u want to lighten ur flywheel?

Well, if Dave Baker's articles on PumaRacing.co.uk are anything to go by, flywheel lightening helps out a lot with power gain at the flywheel (due to decreased rotational inertia) and therefore directly at the crankshaft.

I'm sure you knew this already....were you asking why I wanted an Ikon flywheel lightened? Is there any reason not to, in your opinion?

Vid6639 · 7th November 2006, 16:03

doesnt lightening the flywheel reduce bottom end performance or was it tope end performance. I remember that it definitely reduces one of those.

rdkarthik · 7th November 2006, 18:49

I would suggest you contact RAC. They do a lot of rally cars, and are very good at some of the thing you are looking for.

Looks like you need a mix of both your options. A less restrictive tuned induction kit will definetly help. You need to get tuned exhaust as well. Next, i would anyday recommend a piggyback or standalone ecu, as you have complete control over fuelling and timing, hence a greater performance potential and ability to adapt to any other mods on the engine.

You dont need to upgrade the fuel pressure regulator with an aftermarket ecu, as the injection quantity is tunable, execpt when you are exceeding safe duty cycle or when higher injection pressure is needed.

Ford Rocam · 7th November 2006, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by vezj420

Well, if Dave Baker's articles on PumaRacing.co.uk are anything to go by, flywheel lightening helps out a lot with power gain at the flywheel (due to decreased rotational inertia) and therefore directly at the crankshaft.

I'm sure you knew this already....were you asking why I wanted an Ikon flywheel lightened? Is there any reason not to, in your opinion?

Ok I am not from banglore but would like to share my experience
Stock Flywheel of ikon's rocam engine weighs 8Kg the max you could reduce is by 1 - 1.25 Kg by machining, make sure you dont remove the teeth embedded on flywheel its small square pattern 36 nos used by Crankshaft position sensor to determine TDC/BDC.

shazikon · 9th November 2006, 17:53

I am no MOD GURU.. but here is my take: Having a heavier flywheel helps the car run better at low RMPs because of the inertia due to mass. Lightening the fly wheel no doubt helps top end performance but it would kill the lowend. I dont think you can do that if you drive in Bangalore traffic. I feel a lighter fly wheel is necessary when you have used up all the tricks and need that extra BHP.
Before i do the above , I would go for porting and polishing my internals, increasing compression raito ( uless you have plans to Turbo).. a stand alone engine management system cause i dont like the idea of a piggy back giving wrong information to the ECU by faking the sensor signals. Go for forged internals and then Turbo charge..

vezj420 · 26th November 2006, 17:27

Hehe, don't know if some of y'all are still reading this thread (if so, thanks!), but here's an update on my to-do list stretching well into 2007....

I finally met up with Sanjay of RAC and sought his advice concerning engine upgrades (I figure, why spend the wad-loads of cash on aftermarket bolt-ons when I have competent people to do the engine internals).

So, first thing I'm getting done in order to accomodate for the coming upgrades is free-flow headers (already got the exhaust). The next thing I wanted to do was head porting, polishing, and milling (to increase CR), but on Sanjay's advice I will be upgrading my throttle body first (ie. boring it most likely). It seems that Ford's cylinder heads are already pretty efficient, with a lot of the intake and exhaust plumbing having been detuned for Indian Fords. Therefore, the scope for most improvement lies in the plumbing.

After those two things are done, I'll probably go in for the porting and polishing, albeit cautiously because in the long, long run (in 2007), I am seriously thinking of taking the vehicle down to Mysore to Mr. Somender Singh's garage to see if he can work his magic on my Ikon 1.6! The work he does includes porting, polishing, and milling, so I don't know if it's recommended to get it done here first.... (those of u who don't know what the hell i'm talking about, refer to www.somender-singh.com or go to this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...14-5-kmpl.html

Any opinions on the above, Kaizer Sozay (if u're reading)?!

Finally, that is, before Mysore, I'm thinking of going for Race Dynamics' ECU upgrade with a number of settings for 1) increased mileage 2) 'stock' performance 3) Stage 1 Fuel+ignition remaps for mild power increase 4) Stage 2 Fuel+ignition remaps for *****-out power increase!

Karthik, your opinion on this view, please!

Peace all, and thanks for all your inputs....you've managed to change me from the mindset of a "bolt-on wonderboy" to at least a half-educated modder/tuner who's not afraid of exploring options!

rdkarthik · 28th November 2006, 10:21

@vezj - Sounds nice !! Option(1) is'nt exciting though

.

vezj420 · 28th November 2006, 22:15

@Karthik, hehe I know Option 1 isn't exciting...I need it for increased mileage! I've told u this already....I gotta commute ~28kms to and fro work 5 days a week!!

anyways, thanks for the reply bro...always good to hear from you....can you PM me with feasibility and pricing for the 4 settings I've mentioned?

FYI, I'm thinking either Jan. or Feb. for putting your EMS in....when ru shifting shop?

@Viper - my ears perked up when u said cheaper and better alternatives to Konis....where and what, man?! (no sarcasm, I'm asking earnestly)

6th November 2006, 20:16	#1
vezj420 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 266 Thanked: 23 Times	Sorry if this is redundant...I really have some itching questions concerning perf. upgrades in BLR! For those that don't know already, I've got an Ikon 1.6 Nxt with K&N air intake+cone filter, Denso Iridiums, stock engine, and N1 spec mufflers. I'm looking for my next big push in performance upgrades, and have the following ideas and questions: Kit 1 ----- For even better airflow, I've heard good things about the Pipercross Viper induction kit (this is a CAI with chrome-top cone filter and cold air feed). Cost ~ Rs. 9-10k For enriching/tweaking the AFM, I was thinking of installing an FSE Power Boost Valve (fuel pressure regulator). Cost ~ Rs. 10-11k (btw, if anyone knows where I can get these for cheaper, lemme know please! Now, I'm thinking, INSTEAD of spending the 20k-ish on the above two items, why not go for: Kit 2 ----- A piggyback module that can adjust AFR and ignition timings (ie. Race Dynamics RD0406, Next Level Tri-phase, etc.). Why I think of this as an alternative is that it can be mapped to accomplish pretty much the same thing the above (Kit 1) does. Is my reasoning/line of thinking correct? Or am I being a naive newbie?? Please impart your wisdom, fellow Team-BHPians! --------------- Now, I am of course aware that BOTH kits together would make a helluva difference, but my budget and cautious nature only allow for one kit at a time...maybe with a couple of months in between for break-in time. Plus, I'm thinking of saving up for a wet N20 kit! (keep this in mind for your advice) Okay, that part's done....on to the next section: (esp. for the Bangaloreans, this one!) ------------ Which place in BLR can do or provide the following for the Ikon 1.6? 1) Front strut brace 2) Flywheel lightening and balancing 3) Short-throw gear lever (I may be asking too much of BLR....Hey, she's my hometown too, man! Prove me wrong, people!) Last edited by Samurai : 6th November 2006 at 23:48.
	() Thanks

6th November 2006, 23:42	#2
Mugen_Power Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gujarat 03 Posts: 1,302 Thanked: 18 Times	vezj420, First of all you should have to look at Team-Bhp rules, Smilies usage is restricted to Two per post. Why dont you try search option in advanced mode ? Few Links.. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ded-ikons.html http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...us-cities.html Or PM psycho for performance upgrades. Cheers, Mugen_Power.
	() Thanks

7th November 2006, 00:35	#3
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Dude,of the above two kids,i'd suggest the tri-phase. Anyways, front strut brace is a good idea. But, y do u want to lighten ur flywheel?
	() Thanks

7th November 2006, 12:09	#5
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	Man! Nice intentions you have. It seems, you just want full performance and no show. That's good man. Whatever you wanna do, consult Psycho also. He's our very own tuner in Teambhp. I'm a bit curious of your car though. Ikon's have a tailhappy syndrome and it's brakes are not much reliable. First, I thought it was my experience alone. But later heard of the same from others too. Last edited by speedzak : 7th November 2006 at 12:20.
	() Thanks

7th November 2006, 16:03	#9
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,729 Thanked: 43,464 Times View My Garage	doesnt lightening the flywheel reduce bottom end performance or was it tope end performance. I remember that it definitely reduces one of those.
	() Thanks

7th November 2006, 18:49	#10
rdkarthik BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: bangalore Posts: 206 Thanked: 13 Times	I would suggest you contact RAC. They do a lot of rally cars, and are very good at some of the thing you are looking for. Looks like you need a mix of both your options. A less restrictive tuned induction kit will definetly help. You need to get tuned exhaust as well. Next, i would anyday recommend a piggyback or standalone ecu, as you have complete control over fuelling and timing, hence a greater performance potential and ability to adapt to any other mods on the engine. You dont need to upgrade the fuel pressure regulator with an aftermarket ecu, as the injection quantity is tunable, execpt when you are exceeding safe duty cycle or when higher injection pressure is needed.
	() Thanks

9th November 2006, 17:53	#12
shazikon BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 391 Thanked: 24 Times View My Garage	I am no MOD GURU.. but here is my take: Having a heavier flywheel helps the car run better at low RMPs because of the inertia due to mass. Lightening the fly wheel no doubt helps top end performance but it would kill the lowend. I dont think you can do that if you drive in Bangalore traffic. I feel a lighter fly wheel is necessary when you have used up all the tricks and need that extra BHP. Before i do the above , I would go for porting and polishing my internals, increasing compression raito ( uless you have plans to Turbo).. a stand alone engine management system cause i dont like the idea of a piggy back giving wrong information to the ECU by faking the sensor signals. Go for forged internals and then Turbo charge..
	() Thanks

26th November 2006, 17:27	#13
vezj420 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 266 Thanked: 23 Times	update on mod plans Hehe, don't know if some of y'all are still reading this thread (if so, thanks!), but here's an update on my to-do list stretching well into 2007.... I finally met up with Sanjay of RAC and sought his advice concerning engine upgrades (I figure, why spend the wad-loads of cash on aftermarket bolt-ons when I have competent people to do the engine internals). So, first thing I'm getting done in order to accomodate for the coming upgrades is free-flow headers (already got the exhaust). The next thing I wanted to do was head porting, polishing, and milling (to increase CR), but on Sanjay's advice I will be upgrading my throttle body first (ie. boring it most likely). It seems that Ford's cylinder heads are already pretty efficient, with a lot of the intake and exhaust plumbing having been detuned for Indian Fords. Therefore, the scope for most improvement lies in the plumbing. After those two things are done, I'll probably go in for the porting and polishing, albeit cautiously because in the long, long run (in 2007), I am seriously thinking of taking the vehicle down to Mysore to Mr. Somender Singh's garage to see if he can work his magic on my Ikon 1.6! The work he does includes porting, polishing, and milling, so I don't know if it's recommended to get it done here first.... (those of u who don't know what the hell i'm talking about, refer to www.somender-singh.com or go to this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...14-5-kmpl.html Any opinions on the above, Kaizer Sozay (if u're reading)?! Finally, that is, before Mysore, I'm thinking of going for Race Dynamics' ECU upgrade with a number of settings for 1) increased mileage 2) 'stock' performance 3) Stage 1 Fuel+ignition remaps for mild power increase 4) Stage 2 Fuel+ignition remaps for *****-out power increase! Karthik, your opinion on this view, please! Peace all, and thanks for all your inputs....you've managed to change me from the mindset of a "bolt-on wonderboy" to at least a half-educated modder/tuner who's not afraid of exploring options!
	() Thanks

28th November 2006, 10:21	#14
rdkarthik BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: bangalore Posts: 206 Thanked: 13 Times	@vezj - Sounds nice !! Option(1) is'nt exciting though . Last edited by rdkarthik : 28th November 2006 at 10:23.
	() Thanks

28th November 2006, 22:15	#15
vezj420 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 266 Thanked: 23 Times	@Karthik, hehe I know Option 1 isn't exciting...I need it for increased mileage! I've told u this already....I gotta commute ~28kms to and fro work 5 days a week!! anyways, thanks for the reply bro...always good to hear from you....can you PM me with feasibility and pricing for the 4 settings I've mentioned? FYI, I'm thinking either Jan. or Feb. for putting your EMS in....when ru shifting shop? @Viper - my ears perked up when u said cheaper and better alternatives to Konis....where and what, man?! (no sarcasm, I'm asking earnestly)
	() Thanks