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Old 1st February 2018, 13:13   #16
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

This is daylight robbery. I am feeling really sad after reading your post. I was also thinking about modifying my Honda City but after reading all this, I think that it's best to stay away from these modifications.

As many members rightly said, if you want a fast car, buy a stock fast car.

Anyway, all that ends well is well.
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Old 1st February 2018, 13:51   #17
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A very sad ordeal indeed. Really interested to understand the other side of the story if there is any.

Last edited by Turbopetrol : 1st February 2018 at 13:53.
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Old 1st February 2018, 14:00   #18
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
Only one problem with that; performance mods on a car are illegal in India. This itself will make the case weak.
Exactly. This is why I dropped plans going legal against a tuner who promised life time support and stopped even receiving my calls.

But in this case, Bhuvan can go legal. This is fraud case. He can file a complaint for theft. He has all rights to get back his old parts or the money.
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Old 1st February 2018, 14:02   #19
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Money burnt, but lessons learned:

1. No chance of ever getting serious modifications in India. I loved my Civic and really wanted to give her a turbo-boost. But stories like these kept me away from tinkering with it.

2. In India, there are only two kinds of mods that one should do:
- Remaps
- Bolt-on parts built for your car from reputable brand names (usually international).

3. Factory horses are factory horses. Nothing beats them. Am glad that there are so many FAST cars available in Indian showrooms, backed by manufacturer expertise, quality standards, reliability & warranty.
1) So true, just not worth it in the end unless going racing with it or tracking it.

2) Both if coming from reputed tuners in Europe/US would be an added plus. With bolt on parts even some simple thing like a bolt-on turbo inlet pipe could be a challenge to some garages.

3) Factory reliable horses, important if the car is a daily driver. If the car breaks down on you and your family in some other state the company a.s.s won't disown your car saying its been modded and we are not touching it.

NB: All this is not applicable if its a project car. Your family would understand, my son/husband don't drink/smoke/chew/sniff this is his only vice and I forgive him for that. If you do all that and still has a project car then also its Ok they will classify you as a gone case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
These kind of threads will show them why they need to stay away from the messy after-market scene. If you want a fast car, buy a stock fast car and get subtle mods on it.
Yes and enjoy reliable and fun motoring. Till you make it a project car.

Did just say all that?? ^^
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Old 1st February 2018, 14:07   #20
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Performance upgrades are largely a gamble in India, wherein even if the tuner is fairly knowledgeable, the struggle for components for upgrade is there, more so the market is niche and thus there is lack of multiple precedence / case laws for the car owners on the plausible outcome for his / her investment and time.

I would assume that there are multiple instances when the owner is not satisfied with the outcome that was promised before the start of the work, but very few like this case get reported in public forums.

I am not sure if there are options of taking RC to court; essentially absence of written agreement between the parties on service quality and obligations can go against the car owner. Additionally such work also fouls with the RTO's authority of road worthiness of the vehicle further makes it a complex case to analyse and argue in the court of law.

Last edited by i74js : 1st February 2018 at 14:11.
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Old 1st February 2018, 14:33   #21
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

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Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
Only one problem with that; performance mods on a car are illegal in India. This itself will make the case weak.
If performance mods are illegal in India, how come Race Concept is publically offering performance mods on cars and bikes in India.

Does that mean that Race Concept runs his business under some guise and charges customer for some other service and not for performance mods?

Does Race Concept and all other tuners/tooners run their business, nly in cash and without any invoice, with out any document?

I believe if performance mods are illegal in India, then any legal notice would make Race Concepts like operator run for cover and would make quick out of the court settlement.

JLS
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Old 1st February 2018, 15:01   #22
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS View Post
If performance mods are illegal in India, how come Race Concept is publically offering performance mods on cars and bikes in India.
Legal action can be taken against this.

Quote:
Does that mean that Race Concept runs his business under some guise and charges customer for some other service and not for performance mods?

Does Race Concept and all other tuners/tooners run their business, nly in cash and without any invoice, with out any document?
I have no clue about this. Guys who have availed their services will be in a better position to answer.

Quote:
I believe if performance mods are illegal in India, then any legal notice would make Race Concepts like operator run for cover and would make quick out of the court settlement.
Just a threat of legal action will be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Exactly. This is why I dropped plans going legal against a tuner who promised life time support and stopped even receiving my calls.
See above.

Quote:
But in this case, Bhuvan can go legal. This is fraud case. He can file a complaint for theft. He has all rights to get back his old parts or the money.
Yes he can but I guess it will be a complicated case if the illegal mods angle is brought in by either of the parties.
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Old 1st February 2018, 15:08   #23
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuvan_prasad View Post
This thread has been written to share my experience with Race Concepts(RC) and Joel Joseph in 2015-16. I was not happy with the overall experience. I am also making it clear that I am not expecting any money, service or apology from RCís end. If miraculously I receive any, it will be a godsend. Some of you may also say I made a few mistakes and could have acted in a better/different way, to that I will say thank you for your views. I have cut my losses long back and moved on, and keeping in mind the open nature of this forum in sharing an enthusiasts experiences, I have decided to write down this thread.
As a hardcore performance junkie, I truly empathise with you for the downs and pains that you have been through. I know it can be a real bummer and while the component failures are part and parcel of the game, what really ticks one off is attitude shown by the tuning shop or the tuner. Though I have not dealt with the gentleman for more than 7 years now (my last contact with him was in 2010), I can see from your experiences that his conduct has not improved with passage of time.

The bottom line is that RC is certainly not Montune or Mugen Motorsports. So don't expect a level of professional conduct that is even anywhere near the ball park let alone near the base of these professional tuning houses.

Just as a side note, from the looks of the bent connecting rod; either the boost pressure is way too high or the engine compression ratio was not adjusted to make allowances for the boost pressure leading to detonation. Both are fatal mistakes which an experienced tuner should never had made.

If this was a medical case, the patient would have died and the attending surgeon would have been in the dock for gross negligence.

Your Civic engine was a disaster and the grim reaper was just waiting in the shadows from the very moment it was decided that you would use a 2nd hand EVO turbo kit. Just as a example, EVO engine build is way different than an ordinary Lancer engine, therefore, its not just a simple matter taking a EVO's turbo kit and installing it in Lancer.
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Old 1st February 2018, 17:32   #24
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Bhuvan,

Really sad to see the treatment you got from the tuners.
I read Nikhilb and your civic modification threads more than a year ago. I read both from start to end and was so enthused I almost started looking for turboing my beat 1.2!

It is a shock to see the behind the scenes going-ons that ruined your experience.
But I am hoping you will still undertake such projects going forward, for our reading pleasure and for your friends to enjoy first hand with you.

All the best for your next project!!
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Old 1st February 2018, 18:10   #25
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Yikes..

Here i am, looking to step into the unchartered territory of after market mods for my Thar and i see this post.

The guys i have approached for mods, have not really given me comfort and i keep shying away from action. ASS cannot always be trusted either for financial or technical reasons.
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Old 1st February 2018, 22:29   #26
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

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Originally Posted by somitra1981 View Post
Here i am, looking to step into the unchartered territory of after market mods for my Thar and i see this post.
What are the things you have planned for the Thar? It is a simple machine, do tell.
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Old 1st February 2018, 23:51   #27
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I wish all manufacturers offered extra power as an option.
They do .

Alto K10 vs Alto 800
Kwid 1.0 vs Kwid 0.8
Polo GT TSI vs Polo 1.2 n/a
Baleno RS vs Baleno 1.2
Abarth Punto vs regular Puntos
S-Cross 1.6 vs S-Cross 1.3 (although discontinued)
Liva 1.5 vs Liva 1.2 (although RIP)...what an amazing hatchback
Linea T-Jet vs Linea 1.4
Duster 110 vs Duster 85
Octavia vRS vs Octavia 1.8 TSI
Innova 2.8 vs Innova 2.4
Endeavour 3.2 vs 2.2
Even the new Scorpio gets 140 vs 120 BHP versions

The list goes on. In a market filled with such beauties, only a daredevil will want to heavily soup up his car in the dark, unorganised tuner (tooner?) world.

God bless factory horses, reliability, after-sales support & warranties.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 07:01   #28
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

How is this crook still in business is beyond belief! How can he be so rude to a paying customer ? Doesn't he realize that his business stays afloat because of these paying customers! I know you do not want him to return the money but the very least he can do is return your hard earned money. Hope karma plays its part.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 07:07   #29
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuvan_prasad View Post
RC has a big team of supporters who are very happy with Joel. I know of more people who are skeptical of going public with their poor experiences with RC because of various reasons like fear of being shunned publicly, friends circle being cut off, why air dirty laundry in public, too much of a headache etc.
You sure are a man with a lot of patience.

The car modification scene in our country is really small with only a handful of people who know what they are doing. Even if you take the easier remap solutions, the market for it is tiny. Customer knowledge is also non existent for the most part. In most cases, it is for someone who wants the car to go "faster", make a turbo whoosh noise, a loud exhaust and a K&N intake. I bet there are customers who do not even pop the hood to check how the work is done even after they have spent a bomb on the car.

My first car, a used 1.6l Ford Ikon had an exhaust job and conical K&N intake filter. The first owner, who was my neighbor hardly ever used the car post carrying out the mods, which is what lead me to buy it as the car had not run much. I liked what I heard every time he cranked the car. The excitement post me buying the car was short lived though. Initially; I liked all the noise and the fact that the car had a nice cool looking K&N filter placed in such a way that it was sucking in hot air from the engine bay. This I realized after switching back to the stock filter as the car felt so much smoother. After facing two incidents of the filter wringing itself, Thanks to Ford service (can't really blame them), I had enough of it. I pulled out the K&N and the exhaust. The latter looked like it was pulled out from rotting car. With all the stock bits in place, the car felt so much better.

The 1.6l rocam is a perky if not high revving engine. Except for the weak brakes, everything was great. I did want to sort out the bad brakes but all solutions out there sounded like snake oil. Besides; the Ford Ikon was nowhere as accomplished in the performance car scene like the City, Esteem, and Baleno. The latter 3 cars had an endless list of performance parts available. I decided not to fiddle with the brakes and end up with something which might end up being a compromise, I decided to drive carefully and live with the weak brakes.

I know nothing about tuning or performance mods. If a modifications is going to cause me or my car any discomfort, I can't deal with it. It makes me cry to see a car being abused or being the guinea pig.

To everyone getting into serious modification, you need to know what you are getting into and what your mechanic is up to all the way. If you are not interested in learning, don't get into it cause it will cause you a lot of pain.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 2nd February 2018 at 07:16.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 10:24   #30
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

There is one lesson in economics that was reinforced from your ordeal..

In order to make your car go faster, no point investing in modding an existing car. Sell the car and use the mod funds to buy a faster car, albeit used.

I had learnt my lesson with accessories - no point improving an existing car. Save the money and get the higher trim.
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