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Old 9th July 2018, 15:03   #1
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Default Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano



I have always been of the opinion that a Project car should be a reliable, daily driver that gives you a mixture of fun and practicality, along with the reliability of a regular car. After all, with our strenuous and exacting lifestyles, it's difficult to take time out to build a complicated project car, and eventually, maintaining the car, and taking it out for a drive becomes a mandatory task, rather than a pleasurable event. I am not of the opinion that a Project car has to be expensive but own and expensive to maintain. The Car should be a source of joy and not a liability.
A prime example is the Engine swap I executed a few months ago on THE CRIO! And what a JOY she turned out to be. The practicality, reliability and dependability of a Honda, with the fun and cost of driving a go-kart with abundant amounts of power.
She has given me a lot of insight into how rewarding it can be to own a relatively small car, with copious amounts of power. You don't really need a 400 bhp monster to have fun, do you?

Project Car 1:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...injectors.html



Life has taken a 360 degree turn last year. I became the father of a beautiful baby girl and I have been pretty busy getting around! The GT TSI is soldiering on and so is the Crio. We are looking at a larger car for the family (Maybe an Octavia RS or a GLC) and that's going to be in my garage, while the Crio will be going to my parents.
Which leaves me with the bandwidth for ONE MORE THING (Steve Jobs style)

I have been fantasizing about doing something about the 1.2 litre Honda L12B engine lying in my garage since the Crio swap. As much as I'd like to retain the original engine for legal reasons, I know it's going to rot and lose power and eventually be of no use, since we may never sell the Crio to someone else.


Now, here's the older plan:
I plan to buy a USED Manual, non power steering Nano in working condition, Here's what I'd do with it.
1. Throw out the 600 cc engine and puny gearbox.
2. Throw out the rear seats.
3. Fit a roll-cage and upgrade the braking system at all wheels.
4. Retain basic electronics, including the air-conditioning.
5. Retain the basic structure, but strengthen it at strategic points.
6. Fit the L12B engine and supercharge it. It would work with a standalone engine management system.

Here are the problems with the above plan:
1. It may not be Honda reliable, since it would have too many aftermarket parts and a standalone is really tough to tune in an iVtec. Air-conditioning would again, require a lot of tuning for it to work well (problems with ivtec and ac idling)
2. The gearbox would be a pain to fit as accommodating the L12B and the gearbox in the small rear of the Nano would be a problem.
3. The complications of making the whole package function as a rear-wheel drive go kart would be many, as the drivetrain would require special modification to do a rear-wheel drive conversion.

I got busy with life, and hence stalled the project due to the many challenges listed above, when suddenly, I got a brainwave. I saw an e2o plus on the road, and my mind started doing cartwheels overtime!

The world is changing, and so should we!
Kodak, Nokia, HMV, all used to be behemoths in their prime, but they didn't move with the times, and they are where they are now!

Spending time and money on an Internal Combustion driven project car was yesterday's dream!

LET'S GO ELECTRIC!

Advantages of having an Electric Project car:
1. Oodles of torque from the word GO.
2. No drivetrain losses
3. No worries of mating expensive drivetrain components with each other and even more expensive electrical trickery to make them run in harmony.
4. No dependence on human wizardry to tune the above.
5. Small carbon footprint. NO EMISSIONS.
6. Lesser turnaround time.


What we need:
1. Roll-cage for the structure
2. Bigger brakes (for sure)
3. Strong Electric motors for all 4 wheels along with the ECU to run them.
4. BATTERIES that would make the range of this car around 200 km(this will be the most expensive component of all)
5. Stronger suspension to take the load of the above.

Please note, guys! I am NOT an expert! I am a BIG DREAMER!

I have envisioned this project and I see it materializing only if I receive technical advice and inputs from your side.

Suggestions and criticism are welcome!

Let's MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!



PS: As a side-note, let's also think of names for this baby!
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Old 9th July 2018, 16:35   #2
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post



Life has taken a 360 degree turn last year. I became the father of a beautiful baby girl and I have been pretty busy getting around! The GT TSI is soldiering on and so is the Crio. We are looking at a larger car for the family
Congratulations on the Baby. Have the same thoughts albeit for a super bike. Even know a friend who is full time in to manufacturing an electric bike but not much time to actually do anything about it.

Good Luck with the project. Hooked on to this thread

Last edited by Eddy : 9th July 2018 at 20:36. Reason: quoting a long post hampers readability
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Old 9th July 2018, 16:52   #3
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Sir I feel you should consider a car that's a little more normal looking and better structured, like an Alto K10 or maybe a Kwid than the odd ball Nano. Both these cars with a boosted 1.2 4cyl and nice shocks, wheels & tyres will turn out to be amazing project cars. On top of that, these cars are abundantly available in used car market as well and are more reliable too (especially Alto). Because of their low height and centre of gravity, they will handle better than Nano too.
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Old 9th July 2018, 17:02   #4
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Sir, with all due respect, having been an ex-Nano owner, I honestly think you should consider another car for this project. The way things fail on Nano is disgusting and there simply is no competition to the "worst quality" award for Nano if there ever was one. No offence to Nano owners, I understand everyone is a die-hard fan of your own vehicle. But I'm not, considering I've spent more on maintaining the Nano than all the vehicles in my family put together. After 4 years, even the air conditioning needs an expense of 20K per year to just keep running, barely.

I would love to see this project go through, without any niggles and for that very reason, I'd advice against this particular car unless it's purely an experiment and not meant to be used for daily drives or even as a car meant for driving for that matter.

Last edited by jagzrk : 9th July 2018 at 17:02. Reason: add 's' for plural
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Old 9th July 2018, 17:05   #5
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Names could be
Tata -
Electron
Electronite
Zapper
Zano
Nano Watt
Flow
etc

May be something like this could help.

https://www.thebetterindia.com/12696...onsumption-25/
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Old 9th July 2018, 17:10   #6
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
plan:
I plan to buy a USED Manual, non power steering Nano in working condition,

Suggestions and criticism are welcome!
Frank saab why not electrify a Maruti 800 or a Zen.
Considering your hidden love for Classic Maruti's

They are reliable, aftermarket parts available .
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Old 9th July 2018, 22:00   #7
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Electric motor on all four wheels on the nano will be too expensive and will require a lot of re-engineering.

I would suggest you pick up one BLDC (ease of control vs AC Motors ) and mate it to the existing transmission. Slot the gear in say 3rd or 4th and you are good to go.

Besides the motors and battery pack ( voltage and capacity matter a lot ), you will need a battery management system as well.
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Old 9th July 2018, 22:25   #8
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Arrow re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

I thought you were OFF TEAM-BHP, Welcome back

On paper the Nano sounds perfect for a project car as it has 2 basic ingredients;

1) Rear Wheel Drive
2) Rear Engine

Also such a project has been attempted before (im sure you would be aware), check this out;

Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano-pfd_3042.jpg

^ Super Nano - 230 hp

More on the Super Nano HERE

But a Electric Nano Project would be a 1st, All the best

Last edited by karan561 : 9th July 2018 at 22:27.
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Old 10th July 2018, 12:13   #9
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshrey22 View Post
Sir I feel you should consider a car that's a little more normal looking and better structured, like an Alto K10 or maybe a Kwid than the odd ball Nano. Both these cars with a boosted 1.2 4cyl and nice shocks, wheels & tyres will turn out to be amazing project cars. On top of that, these cars are abundantly available in used car market as well and are more reliable too (especially Alto). Because of their low height and centre of gravity, they will handle better than Nano too.
My reason for choosing the Nano is it's chuckability, rear wheel drive and rear engined layout. The build quality and chassis strength in the Marutis is also suspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzrk View Post
Sir, with all due respect, having been an ex-Nano owner, I honestly think you should consider another car for this project. The way things fail on Nano is disgusting and there simply is no competition to the "worst quality" award for Nano if there ever was one. No offence to Nano owners, I understand everyone is a die-hard fan of your own vehicle. But I'm not, considering I've spent more on maintaining the Nano than all the vehicles in my family put together. After 4 years, even the air conditioning needs an expense of 20K per year to just keep running, barely.

I would love to see this project go through, without any niggles and for that very reason, I'd advice against this particular car unless it's purely an experiment and not meant to be used for daily drives or even as a car meant for driving for that matter.
I take your words very seriously, and I don't take offence. In fact, you do have me thinking in another direction.
As I said, we are a TEAM,
Together
Everyone
Achieves
Maximum

This project will be executed only when preliminary research points in that direction. This thread is created for that very reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannskaria View Post
Frank saab why not electrify a Maruti 800 or a Zen.
Considering your hidden love for Classic Maruti's

They are reliable, aftermarket parts available .
I love classic Marutis, and if I do go in that direction, it will be an MH410. I'd have loved to do an SS80, but parts are not available.
The restoration will be done in the same manner as mentioned in the below link

Do watch it, guys. It's ASTOUNDING, how much attention to detail has gone into the above resto-mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie View Post
Electric motor on all four wheels on the nano will be too expensive and will require a lot of re-engineering.

I would suggest you pick up one BLDC (ease of control vs AC Motors ) and mate it to the existing transmission. Slot the gear in say 3rd or 4th and you are good to go.

Besides the motors and battery pack ( voltage and capacity matter a lot ), you will need a battery management system as well.
As much as I want to do a cost-effective project, I would still want to make sure the drivetrain components are not compromised.
I want to go in for a good set of electric motors with enough GO to make this a pocket rocket. I also believe that a crude battery charging system is not really the way to go. A proper management system with selectable driving modes will be chosen (ECO, BOOST and NORMAL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 View Post
I thought you were OFF TEAM-BHP, Welcome back

On paper the Nano sounds perfect for a project car as it has 2 basic ingredients;

1) Rear Wheel Drive
2) Rear Engine

Also such a project has been attempted before (im sure you would be aware), check this out;

Attachment 1780430

^ Super Nano - 230 hp

More on the Super Nano HERE

But a Electric Nano Project would be a 1st, All the best
JA Motorsport has done some crazy work on these Super Nanos. But I would rather much prefer to have an Electric version of the same to keep things a little less complicated. Yes, there's a lot of initial work, but once the groundwork and planning is done, it's less human involvement in tuning and more of a technical feat in engineering which is easier to achieve than a trial & error method that more often than not, results in error
(With due disrespect to our Tuners in India.)

Last edited by frankmehta : 10th July 2018 at 12:14.
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Old 10th July 2018, 13:14   #10
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
JA Motorsport has done some crazy work on these Super Nanos. But I would rather much prefer to have an Electric version of the same to keep things a little less complicated. Yes, there's a lot of initial work, but once the groundwork and planning is done, it's less human involvement in tuning and more of a technical feat in engineering which is easier to achieve than a trial & error method that more often than not, results in error
(With due disrespect to our Tuners in India.)
Hi FrankMehta,

Super idea.

There are some cool YouTube videos on the acceleration of a smart EV.

The Nano EV would probably be right in the same zone.

You may already be aware of this development ...

http://www.autocarindia.com/car-news...yem-neo-406644

http://www.autocarindia.com/car-news...spotted-408711

It might be worthwhile to reach out and check with Jayem on opportunities of learning from / partnering with them.

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift

Last edited by FourWheelDrift : 10th July 2018 at 13:36.
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Old 10th July 2018, 13:38   #11
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
Hi FrankMehta,

Super idea.

There are some cool YouTube videos on the acceleration of a smart EV.

The Nano EV would probably be right in the same zone.

You may already be aware of this development ...

http://www.autocarindia.com/car-news...yem-neo-406644

http://www.autocarindia.com/car-news...spotted-408711

It might be worthwhile to reach out and check with Jayem on opportunities.

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift

Thanks. This is another shot in the arm for the project. A readymade EV would be a great way to start. It would have the necessary modifications and mounting points for the motors and batteries, the 48v electric system installed, as well as strengthened suspension. The EV management system would also be on point.

I am going to initiate conversation with Jayem. I doubt it will be of much help, though.
A good idea would be to stay pinned to OLX BLR for any Jayem Neos on sale. A lot of OLA and UBER owners are forced to sell their cars when they can't pay the dues due to the stringent tightening of policies by the cab aggregators.
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Old 10th July 2018, 13:51   #12
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Default re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

What are the other cars that are being considered as options?
Any kind of limitations for the initial vehicle procurement budget?
Only looking at hatchbacks or sedans considered as well?

Approximately 1 lac budget (more or less) in order of size (Most likely all of them will be more than 10 years old):
1. Maruti 800 (Most variants)
2. Maruti Zen
3. Chevy Spark
4. Fiat Palio ( Built like a Tank, but also moves like a Tank Maybe not a good electric choice? )

Maybe stretching a bit will fetch A-Star which already has good level of European safety most probably due to Maruti not compromising it for India and also does not weigh over a ton.
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Old 12th July 2018, 09:18   #13
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Default Re: Project car: Want to build an Electric Nano

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
I am going to initiate conversation with Jayem. I doubt it will be of much help, though.
A good idea would be to stay pinned to OLX BLR for any Jayem Neos on sale. A lot of OLA and UBER owners are forced to sell their cars when they can't pay the dues due to the stringent tightening of policies by the cab aggregators.
If you are in for the DIY approach, I'll get my guys to cook up a simulation for you. Let me know what kind of motor ( voltage and power ), tire size, battery capacity, battery type (lead acid or li-ion or ni-mh) you are looking at, can get you complete drive cycle simulation.

Once you get an idea of the range and acceleration figures in real time, you can go in and select the components.

If it was me, I would go for a single BLDC motor mated to the stock gearbox and get the control systems spot on. I'll put up some figures and graphs here for you by EOD or tomorrow.
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